The State Of Higher Learning - Thai Style !

[CosmicSurfer]

The Bangkok Post > News » Local News

> http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1859...-finally-starts

EDUCATION

Pathumwan's 2009 intake finally starts

Published: 17/06/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Pathumwan Institute of Technology admitted its first new students for this year after only one person had passed two earlier entrance exams.

Rector Somkiat Jongprasitporn said yesterday 33 applicants passed the third round of entrance exams after the minimum score for each core subject in the exam was reduced to 30% from 50%. A total of 170 applicants took part in the third exam.

The number of applicants who passed was enough for the institute to open first-year classes in the 2009 academic year, Mr Somkiat said.

He said the institute would not ease the minimum score level any further to recruit more students.

The institute, which runs faculties of engineering and architecture for undergraduate students, had decided to scrap first-year classes after only one applicant passed the first exam held in January.

Almost 400 applicants took part in the first exam.

A second exam was held in May in which none of the applicants passed.

Applicants sat mathematics, science and professional aptitude tests and were required to achieve at least 50% of the total score to enrol.

The institute came under pressure and decided to hold the third round of exams and reduce the minimum passing score for each subject to 30%.

Mr Somkiat said he had reported the results to the Office of the Higher Education Commission secretary-general Sumeth Yaemnoon and told him the institute would not organise a further test.

He said the institute's education quality would suffer if it made compromises and took in failed applicants from earlier rounds.

A group of failed applicants had petitioned Education Minister Jurin Laksanavisit demanding the institute hold a fourth round of exams. They said they believed the institute still had more than 200 seats available for new students.

What more is there to say?

Is it any wonder why we have the problems we have?

Only 33 of 170 (19.4%) could even get a passing grade of 30/100!

And they want to run a 4th round of testing?????

So sorry, but the only Engineering these students should be doing is of the Sanitary nature!

(Politically Correct speak for "garbage collectors")

TIT - Unfortunately

CS

[Samuian]

well, now we know!

"make it work, no matter how, if it doesn't, it doesn't, then call in the spirits!"

but then things do work in this country and I don't see only farangs doing the job!

Maybe these Exams should be closely scrutinized, maybe they are made by people

who don't know what exams are all about.... maybe.... the Examiner should be examined first!

[Ijustwannateach]

In one sense, Thai society is reaping the rewards of the 'no-fail' system- students who can pass tests are going overseas (many do from my school) and the others can't pass the real tests offered traditionally here (which are often, to be fair, more difficult than entrance tests in many English-speaking countries).

[Samuian]

well, now we know!

"make it work, no matter how, if it doesn't, it doesn't, then call in the spirits!"

but then things do work in this country and I don't see only farangs doing the job!

Maybe these Exams should be closely scrutinized, maybe they are made by people

who don't know what exams are all about.... maybe.... the Examiner should be examined first!

Yeah, right. What really needs to be done is a COMPLETE OVERHAUL of the Thai Education system. A system that doesn't teach anything when you get right down to it.

I've met 4 people who hold Master's Degrees in English from Thai universities, and between the 4 of them they can't write a complete sentence in proper English.

Instead of these disfunctional illiterates crying and petitioning the school to let them in, they would be better off going back to school on a lower level to try and get the education they need to pass the entrance test.

I was afraid of this reply....

Yep, it's the gratitude, the "slap each other on the shoulder" thing,

"mai pen rai" and "let's laugh it off" has been carried way too far!

It's not being serious and not having fun anymore, but none can rely on

sanook alone and on his/her parents wealth, support of their buddies.

But as long as this system works and remains the core axis around which thai-life revolves...

Well, I am afraid this will go on, because who ever has the guts to address this core problem

will be confronted with "but we are thai people" or" this is thai"!

so, I don't see a change too soon, first there has to be the discovery of this fact

and the will to change it has to "sprout" .....but here we go, messing with the feudal system,

which is supported by keeping people not all that smart...

will the "big boys" want that?

[Scott]

I care much less about the quality of who they let in than the quality of who graduates.

[PeaceBlondie]

Have you read the multiple choice test questions on a typical Thai test?

MATH: 7 X 9 = ---- -----

A. 36

B. 61

C. 69

D. Ayuttyha

Correct answer: D

SCIENCE: What is the atomic weight of one atom of hydrogen?

A. O

B. 1

C. 467

D. Medium

Correct answer: D

PROFESSIONAL ETHICS: Which is the best color:

A. Yellow

B: Yellow

C: Yellow

D: Yellow

Correct answer: C

[bangon04]

Have you read the multiple choice test questions on a typical Thai test?

MATH: 7 X 9 = ---- -----

A. 36

B. 61

C. 69

D. Ayuttyha

Correct answer: D

SCIENCE: What is the atomic weight of one atom of hydrogen?

A. O

B. 1

C. 467

D. Medium

Correct answer: D

PROFESSIONAL ETHICS: Which is the best color:

A. Yellow

B: Yellow

C: Yellow

D: Yellow

Correct answer: C

The correct answer is - whatever my social superiors say it is. It is not my place to question anything they say....

[neverdie]

Have you read the multiple choice test questions on a typical Thai test?

MATH: 7 X 9 = ---- -----

A. 36

B. 61

C. 69

D. Ayuttyha

Correct answer: D

SCIENCE: What is the atomic weight of one atom of hydrogen?

A. O

B. 1

C. 467

D. Medium

Correct answer: D

PROFESSIONAL ETHICS: Which is the best color:

A. Yellow

B: Yellow

C: Yellow

D: Yellow

Correct answer: C

whoaaaa ha ha ha. PB, I know you must have got these examples from real tests.

[PeaceBlondie]

I made those 'test questions' for fun. They did say the TCT's 'professional' test had questions about a nonexistent version of Windows, plus a serious question about which number was (culterally) 'better'- such as 24, 354, 543... I proctored a proctology maths exam for M2 that had a question with no right answer - mai bpen rai.

So maybe the test was .

[Ijustwannateach]

Welcome, new and infrequent posters to the Teaching Subforum.

You may be advised that this subforum is moderated somewhat more strictly than other parts of Thaivisa, and it would serve you well to read the pinned Teaching Guidelines topic.

A number of off-topic and relatively inflammatory posts have been removed.

This topic is treading on thin ice. Stick to it like glue or it will be closed.

[madjbs]

As usual, a load of misinformed nonsense.

[madjbs]

I have a cousin on the board of a very well known university back in the U.S. According to him, anyone with a degree from Thailand is basically ignored. However, if the applicant has a Master's, he/or she will be considered, but only if they can score 75 or better on a 100 question test, where the questions come from actual tests the senior students take. According to him, 9 have taken the test over the past 10 years. Best score was a 48.

Yeah right, I am sure he remembers all the scores of everyone who takes the test, doesn't he.....

I know people who have gone on to study at many very highly regarded western unis, after completing a BA here in Thailand.

Most good programs also have exchange programs with high ranked western unis.

[madjbs]

they admitted to me that gifts to the professor (a holiday in one case) were commonplace and secured a degree.

Rubbish, behaviour like this and cheating is not tolerated in ANY form at any of the leading programs.

The Thai education system is regarded as sub par in the UK.

And most Brits think that all Thai women are for rent. Doesn't mean anything.

[Ijustwannateach]

Since it is possible for anyone to make up just about any disparaging comments he/she likes about Thais and their education, I am wiping all of those 'anecdotal' pieces from the thread. If you wish to post about the state of Thai higher education, either give us some substantiation (with a link) or personal experience (involving you being an educator) that is more than a one-line insult.

[Rionoir]

Seeing the kinds of jobs a lot of my graduating friends are getting... I am not too concerned about any of these students building a bridge when they graduate... they're just going to get the job of chatting on MSN and making the occasional label for a file folder. *giggle*

[Scott]

I have 'heard' that the only two universities with 'internationally recognized degrees'. They are Thammasat and Chulalongkorn. Can anybody verify whether this is true or not?

[Xangsamhua]

I have 'heard' that the only two universities with 'internationally recognized degrees'. They are Thammasat and Chulalongkorn. Can anybody verify whether this is true or not?

I would be very surprised if a degree from a university accredited by the Commission on Higher Education here were not recognised overseas. As to the actual degree of preparedness any degree from any Thai university provides for postgraduate study overseas, who could say?

What holds Thai graduates back in many (most) cases where they want to study abroad is their lack of proficiency in the language of the overseas university.

I agree with other posters that this thread is too much a venue for hearsay and unverifiable (and irresponsible?) assertions. Better closed.

[Xangsamhua]

I have 'heard' that the only two universities with 'internationally recognized degrees'. They are Thammasat and Chulalongkorn. Can anybody verify whether this is true or not?

I would be very surprised if a degree from a university accredited by the Commission on Higher Education here were not recognised overseas. As to the actual degree of preparedness any degree from any Thai university provides for postgraduate study overseas, who could say?

What holds Thai graduates back in many (most) cases where they want to study abroad is their lack of proficiency in the language of the overseas university.

I agree with other posters that this thread is too much a venue for hearsay and unverifiable (and irresponsible?) assertions. Better closed.

[mbkudu]

I have 'heard' that the only two universities with 'internationally recognized degrees'. They are Thammasat and Chulalongkorn. Can anybody verify whether this is true or not?

Many of my graduating classmates who were Thai and also from various countries from around the world have moved on to masters degree studies in universities in various western and Asian countries around the world. Ramkhamhaeng University gets quite a bit a slag, but many of the graduates are actually quite good and do well. They are in many cases more independent students, and work without constant guidance and hand holding like many students from 'famous' universities who have a team of advisers guiding, consulting, coddling and protecting their every move.

People who have not gone through a university here have no idea what they are talking about, and are merely speculating on what they have 'heard'. To answer the question about 'internationally recognized degrees': I have no idea as there are a lot of universities here and there are a lot of them abroad. Ramkhamhaeng is a state university so it is recognized by most countries, however, there was a Chinese student from Ram who wanted to continue in a post graduate degree in a Chinese university, and she found that Ram was not on their list of recognized schools from around the world. After some checking they decided that it was acceptable. Certified, recognized, accepted, whatever; it's a gray area as long as it's not a 'life experience degree'. Those are all definitely certified, certified bird cage lining.

[Scott]

To clarify a little--I think this has to do with the transfer of credits. I am not wishing to feed the troll of misinformation or further speculation, however, if you transfer from one university to another, the credits earned are usually transferred. In the case of Thai Universities, if you study two years and want to attend a University in another country, what status would the credits earned have?

[PeaceBlondie]

To answer Scott's question - back home in USA, decent undergrad grades from accredited unis were given credit at the new uni if the new uni had equivalent courses. But transferring could add one or more semesters before the degree was conferred. I expect international undergrad fransfers would be even more difficult.

[harrry]

In Australia each state uses a central authourity to grade a students final year (or two) at high school and allocate points which te Universities use as their admission point to variouis courses. Many of the Universities find that the school system has not produced students to meet their needs. Engineering needs high maths skills, Arts faculties value strong english language skills for example. The have consistantly tried to get the Education department to change their curriculums however schools are meant for all not those who go to University.

The solution they have had to adopt is to accept the students and then develop the skills they need during their course.

In the Thai case we have an agricultural college adding an engineering course. It may be that those who set the tests had unrealistic expectations of the standard of candidates or it may be as an agricultural college adding an engineering course of unknown quality it was unatractive and those who were suitable did not apply leaving only the unqualified. We do not have enough information to know which is the case.

[Scott]

Potentially inflamatory posts have been removed. As mentioned before, let's try keep this on topic.

[otherstuff1957]

A new battery of admissions tests have been instituted this year, the GAT, PAT, etc... I don't know about the Math & Science tests, but the English sections of those tests are 1) Insanely difficult and 2) full of ambiguous or downright incorrect answers.

While the 'no fail' system does churn out a large number of substandard students, there may very well be more to this admissions mess than just inadequate students.

As for Thai credentials not being recognized abroad, one of my co-workers just married a Thai man who got his Masters Degree from my old university - Stanford. Getting admitted there is no piece of cake, so there are at least some academically excellent Thais!

[Ijustwannateach]

Seeing the kinds of jobs a lot of my graduating friends are getting... I am not too concerned about any of these students building a bridge when they graduate... they're just going to get the job of chatting on MSN and making the occasional label for a file folder. *giggle*

But you're getting a lot more out of it? What kind of program are you studying in?

[Ijustwannateach]

Many of my students have had no trouble getting into programs abroad, at some quite respectable places.

[harrry]

About 5 years ago I had the pleasure of being in a project group witha loverly and extremely capable Thai student at Murdoch University in a BioInformatic unit I was doing. I cannot remember exactly which university in Thailand she came from except that it was not one of the big two. Her contributions to the group were outstanding and I think contributed to my getting an A grade in that unit.

[ubonjoe]

Off topic post deleted.

[phil2]

Have you read the multiple choice test questions on a typical Thai test?

MATH: 7 X 9 = ---- -----

A. 36

B. 61

C. 69

D. Ayuttyha

Correct answer: D

SCIENCE: What is the atomic weight of one atom of hydrogen?

A. O

B. 1

C. 467

D. Medium

Correct answer: D

PROFESSIONAL ETHICS: Which is the best color:

A. Yellow

B: Yellow

C: Yellow

D: Yellow

Correct answer: C

A colleague wrote a similar test for my students last year, and when I confronted the head of department, she threw me out of her office.

[TexasRanger]

they admitted to me that gifts to the professor (a holiday in one case) were commonplace and secured a degree.

Rubbish, behaviour like this and cheating is not tolerated in ANY form at any of the leading programs.

Rubbish? You can guarantee that can you? It may not be seen to be tolerated but it does happen. Also at Plymouth University business school the dean was offered an all expenses paid holiday to Thailand if he would allow a Thai student to pass his MBM course. Of course he declined and the 3rd party who made the offer expressed her dismay to me and said this was exactly the way things happened at her Thai uni. You may not want to admit it but these things do still happen.