Work Permit For Small Shop

[Minke]

I have been with a Thai guy for over a year and he owns a few local businesses (bar and local restaurants). He wants to open another business (a souvenir shop/local buddies who make jewelry and leather hippy stuff etc shop) in the front of our rented house which is on the road and technically a shop-house. This is where we both live and the shop will be in the front/room and thus living room of our house. I am kind of freaked out that even if I am not working there, it is going to look pretty much like I am working there as I will be in there ALL the time.. this is where I live too. I am okay with going through the hassel of a work permit to cover my arse but from what I am reading this shop won't be the sort of business that you can get a permit for working in. Is it possible at ALL to get a permit (I don't care what it costs) so I don't get busted?? Is there any way to keep myself out of trouble with this situation? Or am I going to have a to raise a stink to put the kibosh on his grand scheme. I don't want to get sent jail or deported for sitting in my living room which half of will be occupied by his hippy dippy bob-marley shirt venture. Can we try to use a barrier to conceal the living room half so I won't be seen on my couch and busted by the immigration police?? Please, any constructive advice will be very much appreciated.

Just to keep things clear: I am not financing or opening this shop. This is his "baby." We both pay for the house and utils.

/edited crappy grammar

Edited June 18, 2009 by Minke

[ubonjoe]

There is no way that I know of that you could get a work permit.

If you are not going to be working in the shop I would not worry about it.

The chances of the police or immigation making a problem are slim to none.

[Minke]

There is no way that I know of that you could get a work permit.

If you are not going to be working in the shop I would not worry about it.

The chances of the police or immigation making a problem are slim to none.

No I am not working it, handling money etc. I will just be present and in the shop area most of the day and as you can imagine, it will be me sweeping and mopping the floors which will look like I am working. (you think Muslim Thai dudes do housework?? I WISH!) I am just concerned about how it 'looks'. We are planning on getting married and I don't want to screw up that visa process with a black mark on my record for looking like I am selling pot-leaf shirts in violation of immigration and labor laws! Maybe I am being too paranoid but I read so many freaky stories about the police and immigration and their mysterious enforcement practices. Thanks for the input. My BF says the same thing you do about them probably not caring as long as I am not handling money.

[Lite Beer]

If you are sweeping and mopping the floors in a shop you are working.

[Minke]

If you are sweeping and mopping the floors in a shop you are working.

Good call. So I will have to schedule sweeping etc for when the curtains are closed/night time. Or better yet, this could be a great argument for instituting a more fair division of labor re: housework Thanks!

[Lite Beer]

If you are sweeping and mopping the floors in a shop you are working.

Good call. So I will have to schedule sweeping etc for when the curtains are closed/night time. Or better yet, this could be a great argument for instituting a more fair division of labor re: housework Thanks!

Just tell him that you are going to sit outside the front door and drink coffee or beer all day.

[Brigante7]

If you are sweeping and mopping the floors in a shop you are working.

Will she not be sweeping and mopping the floors in her house? Her house is the shop and the shop is her house.

It's like in the Uk with the smoking ban in any place of work, if you have a tradesman come to your house to do some work, can you smoke? It's your house but his place of work?

Brigante7.

[asiasurfer]

There is no way that I know of that you could get a work permit.

If you are not going to be working in the shop I would not worry about it.

The chances of the police or immigation making a problem are slim to none.

No I am not working it, handling money etc. I will just be present and in the shop area most of the day and as you can imagine, it will be me sweeping and mopping the floors which will look like I am working. (you think Muslim Thai dudes do housework?? I WISH!) I am just concerned about how it 'looks'. We are planning on getting married and I don't want to screw up that visa process with a black mark on my record for looking like I am selling pot-leaf shirts in violation of immigration and labor laws! Maybe I am being too paranoid but I read so many freaky stories about the police and immigration and their mysterious enforcement practices. Thanks for the input. My BF says the same thing you do about them probably not caring as long as I am not handling money.

If you are female and want to get married to a Thai guy in Thailand, you will have the right to obtain Thai citizenship. Therefore, you are in a much better position (visa!) than most of us farang men are who are married to Thai women. When you are getting married you will have all the rights of any ordinary Thai citizen (including mopping the floors of your husband’s shop). So, if I was in your position I wouldn’t worry too much.

PS: Make sure all of your husband’s shop floors and surfaces are clean at all times!!!

Good luck anyway.

[ubonjoe]

It will take at least five years before she gets citizenship. After being on extension of stays for that period of time.

[lopburi3]

She does not become a citizen through marriage - she must still apply for go through the normal vetting/waiting period. Until then she has a valid excuse not to do any work without a work permit.

[Lite Beer]

Nonsensical post deleted.

[Lite Beer]

Non Visa related posts have been deleted. This forum deals with Visa and Work Permits only, not marriage guidance.

Keep it Visa related please.

Thank You.

[CWMcMurray]

... Until then she has a valid excuse not to do any work without a work permit.

Sounds like a good excuse to me... Sorry hunny, but you don't want me to be deported do you (insert sad puppy dog eyes here).

[torrenova]

This is another one of those situations where common sense would, elsewhere, prevail and it would be obvious that she was not working. However, as this is Thailand, she is the ultra rich westerner etc. etc. there are loads of ways in which she could be used by others and have the BiB round. I think the boyfriend needs to go rent another place for the hippy shop.

[silomgwm]

If you are sweeping and mopping the floors in a shop you are working.

Good call. So I will have to schedule sweeping etc for when the curtains are closed/night time. Or better yet, this could be a great argument for instituting a more fair division of labor re: housework Thanks!

Good god! This is Thailand. It's a woman's job to sweep, dust and clean. Get rid of those silly "division of household labor" ideas you brought with you!

[Ave]

I'm not totally sure about this but I ve heard that once you are married you can get some kind of family visa which entitles you to be quite free to chose to hang around your hubby's business. I've found out this from a farang lady married to a Thai. She bought a restaurant in Thailand, has a family visa which apparently is a quite cheap yearly fee to pay. And they both work in her restaurant. The only thing is that they have been asked to pay the police a monthly sum but that's what almost every business owner is forced to do in that area.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Ave

[Pui]

I'm married to a Thai shop owner and am often asked to mind the shop. This involves sitting behind the counter taking money in my wifes absence. This is the occasional afternoon an hour here and an hour there. We are in Bangkok and there are 5 other shop assistants all of whom would walk if presented with a broom or mop. The strict social hierarchy here means that the Burmese handle such jobs.This is not my idea or suggestion simply on observation. When they've finished in the shops they go and do the houses.

The Police do come into the shop and simply Wai me. This confused me to begin with but now I just wai back and someone says something like. "The farrang is marred to the boss" in Thai language. Everyone smiles again. I carry on using the computer and looking busy.

Then again I could turn around and say "I was just using the internet" which is true. You would have less of an excuse with a mop in your hand, its just not worth it. My suggestion is you don't put yourself in a situation where you are clearly and visibly working...especially not in this climate.

Perhaps ask your business owner boy friend how much even part-time cleaners cost. Then show him what a work permits cost.

[Mario2008]

I'm not totally sure about this but I ve heard that once you are married you can get some kind of family visa which entitles you to be quite free to chose to hang around your hubby's business. I've found out this from a farang lady married to a Thai. She bought a restaurant in Thailand, has a family visa which apparently is a quite cheap yearly fee to pay. And they both work in her restaurant. The only thing is that they have been asked to pay the police a monthly sum but that's what almost every business owner is forced to do in that area.

When married to a Thai national you can get a visa and extensions of stay based on that. However, for working, even in your husband's or wife's shop, you still need a work permit. You can be deported from Thailand for working without one.

P*ss someone off and they can report you.

[lopburi3]

I'm not totally sure about this but I ve heard that once you are married you can get some kind of family visa which entitles you to be quite free to chose to hang around your hubby's business. I've found out this from a farang lady married to a Thai. She bought a restaurant in Thailand, has a family visa which apparently is a quite cheap yearly fee to pay. And they both work in her restaurant. The only thing is that they have been asked to pay the police a monthly sum but that's what almost every business owner is forced to do in that area.

There is no family visa that provides this but suspect you are thinking of Thai citizenship which can often be fast tracked for those with Thai husbands. But it will still take some time.

[straedearts]

One rule of THAILAND: and the rest of this globe!!

Dont make enemies or lose too many friends....and you should be fine,

If Your NOT working your NOT working...

But if you want it Legit, then ask the locals ......and someone official...There is plenty!!

You are in Thailand not conservitive West!. Life is easier, sometimes

[dbrenn]

P*ss someone off and they can report you.

That's how a lot of people get caught - if the OP starts doing well in her shop, and the competition gets jealous and reports her.

[Ave]

I'm not totally sure about this but I ve heard that once you are married you can get some kind of family visa which entitles you to be quite free to chose to hang around your hubby's business. I've found out this from a farang lady married to a Thai. She bought a restaurant in Thailand, has a family visa which apparently is a quite cheap yearly fee to pay. And they both work in her restaurant. The only thing is that they have been asked to pay the police a monthly sum but that's what almost every business owner is forced to do in that area.

There is no family visa that provides this but suspect you are thinking of Thai citizenship which can often be fast tracked for those with Thai husbands. But it will still take some time.

Perhaps she pays immigration through the back door then.. What I know is that since she's been married she does pay a reasonable fee for her visa every year. She doesn't have and she doesn't want Thai citizenship. Apparently it's quite difficult to get it. For at least five or six years, I read five in this thread, she would have to stay in Thailand instead of spending several months a year in another country as she does. Also, proof of fluency in Thai language is required. That includes reading and writing.

[lopburi3]

It is normally very easy for a wife to obtain citizenship as they do not have to have PR status (3 years on extensions of stay and language/other qualification) to apply. Extensions of stay for one year are 1,900 baht per year for everyone married to a Thai (and she does not have to have income to apply as a man would). But that does not allow work. Only having a work permit would she be allowed to work.

[ubonjoe]

Off topic post deleted.

[dbrenn]

I'm married to a Thai shop owner and am often asked to mind the shop. This involves sitting behind the counter taking money in my wifes absence. This is the occasional afternoon an hour here and an hour there. We are in Bangkok and there are 5 other shop assistants all of whom would walk if presented with a broom or mop. The strict social hierarchy here means that the Burmese handle such jobs.This is not my idea or suggestion simply on observation. When they've finished in the shops they go and do the houses.

The Police do come into the shop and simply Wai me. This confused me to begin with but now I just wai back and someone says something like. "The farrang is marred to the boss" in Thai language. Everyone smiles again. I carry on using the computer and looking busy.

Then again I could turn around and say "I was just using the internet" which is true. You would have less of an excuse with a mop in your hand, its just not worth it. My suggestion is you don't put yourself in a situation where you are clearly and visibly working...especially not in this climate.

Perhaps ask your business owner boy friend how much even part-time cleaners cost. Then show him what a work permits cost.

The local cops usually don't know the law, and if you keep a low profile and are nice to people you will probably have no problem. However, any kind of work is illegal, and if someone who knows the law takes a disliking to you and reports you to the labour department, you could be arrested, deported and not allowed back in.

Horror stories abound of foreigners getting arrested for so much as changing a CD behind the bar that they own. Be careful.

[RocketScientist]

I think the boyfriend needs to go rent another place for the hippy shop.

I'd agree- notwithstanding the whole conundrum of legalities / work permit issues - and even though I have no problem with the whole hippy culture / lifestyle, do you really want to be seen and "associated" with this on a 24/7 basis? It just seems to me that a shop of this type will attract "attention" from the BIB, neighbors, etc. and a western female in a place like this would be even more of an "attention getter".

[Arkady]

I'm not totally sure about this but I ve heard that once you are married you can get some kind of family visa which entitles you to be quite free to chose to hang around your hubby's business. I've found out this from a farang lady married to a Thai. She bought a restaurant in Thailand, has a family visa which apparently is a quite cheap yearly fee to pay. And they both work in her restaurant. The only thing is that they have been asked to pay the police a monthly sum but that's what almost every business owner is forced to do in that area.

There is no family visa that provides this but suspect you are thinking of Thai citizenship which can often be fast tracked for those with Thai husbands. But it will still take some time.

Perhaps she pays immigration through the back door then.. What I know is that since she's been married she does pay a reasonable fee for her visa every year. She doesn't have and she doesn't want Thai citizenship. Apparently it's quite difficult to get it. For at least five or six years, I read five in this thread, she would have to stay in Thailand instead of spending several months a year in another country as she does. Also, proof of fluency in Thai language is required. That includes reading and writing.

Under the Nationality Act knowledge of the Thai language is not actually required by foreign women applying to adopt the nationality of their Thai husband. Nevertheless applicants will only be interviewed in Thai and will probably tested as well. Getting a low score would not technically be grounds for rejection but being unable to communicate would make the process very difficult, if not impossible. Before some one says that's sexist, knowledge of the Thai language is also no longer required for foreign men married to Thai women, since last year, although they will certainly be tested.

Re the shop, the OP shouldn't have problems but the risk of some one having it in for her or her hubby is not one that I would want to take. I would put the shop somewhere else for peace of mind or not bother having it at all, if it is not going to be a money spinner anyway. The cost and hassle of getting out of a work permit/ immigration charge are not worth it.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Arkady

[Ave]

I'm married to a Thai shop owner and am often asked to mind the shop. This involves sitting behind the counter taking money in my wifes absence. This is the occasional afternoon an hour here and an hour there. We are in Bangkok and there are 5 other shop assistants all of whom would walk if presented with a broom or mop. The strict social hierarchy here means that the Burmese handle such jobs.This is not my idea or suggestion simply on observation. When they've finished in the shops they go and do the houses.

The Police do come into the shop and simply Wai me. This confused me to begin with but now I just wai back and someone says something like. "The farrang is marred to the boss" in Thai language. Everyone smiles again. I carry on using the computer and looking busy.

Then again I could turn around and say "I was just using the internet" which is true. You would have less of an excuse with a mop in your hand, its just not worth it. My suggestion is you don't put yourself in a situation where you are clearly and visibly working...especially not in this climate.

Perhaps ask your business owner boy friend how much even part-time cleaners cost. Then show him what a work permits cost.

The local cops usually don't know the law, and if you keep a low profile and are nice to people you will probably have no problem. However, any kind of work is illegal, and if someone who knows the law takes a disliking to you and reports you to the labour department, you could be arrested, deported and not allowed back in.

Horror stories abound of foreigners getting arrested for so much as changing a CD behind the bar that they own. Be careful.

I have often worked in my ex-boyfriend's bar (mine actually..) for at least a year and lived at the back of the same building. The entrance was actually the bar entrance. We also set up a small tourist agency next to it. At the time I had a work permit issued for a job I had somewhere else. Not even the police bothered me. Perhaps he had some power around that village..this I'm not sure of.

[RubbaJohnny]

Foreigners cant own bars

merely pay for them like pay tax but not vote

Ah the land of the fee where the cayote and red bull toam

[torrenova]

I think the boyfriend needs to go rent another place for the hippy shop.

I'd agree- notwithstanding the whole conundrum of legalities / work permit issues - and even though I have no problem with the whole hippy culture / lifestyle, do you really want to be seen and "associated" with this on a 24/7 basis? It just seems to me that a shop of this type will attract "attention" from the BIB, neighbors, etc. and a western female in a place like this would be even more of an "attention getter".

In addition, I think a separation of work and home life is necessary and highly desirable unless finances dictate otherwise. Asians don't seem to think that way but it does no make them right.

Foreigners cant own bars

merely pay for them like pay tax but not vote

Ah the land of the fee where the cayote and red bull toam

What rubbish. Of course foreigners can own businesses including bars.