Migrate To Germany - German Language Test

[MPHBrunner]

Sorry users of this forum that I later will switch to German to continue writing because it is a thread which is quite important for German husbands with Thai wifes and not all of us Germans speak proper English. But you have the right to know what is going on here. So let me explain:

Since August 2007 the German embassy requiers a certificate that shows that the Thais who want to migrate to Germany need knowledge of basic German. Even if the Thai is already married to a German.

The only accepted test is Start Deutsch 1 (SD1) at Goethe-Institute in Bangkok. The GI is like British Counsil or Alliance Francaise a semigovermental institute belonging to the German Ministry of foreign affairs. Of course BC and AF are not belonging to the German ministry but to their homeland ministry.

The problem is that most of the Thai women fail SD1 because the classes are too big and the teaching is too fast for them. They have mostly problems with the German use of the alphabet or even with the alphabet itself if they never learnt it.

I was working for the GI in Bangkok and in Seoul and did nothing else since preparing students for this test and was a tester also for four years. I know exactly how to prepare someone passing this test. It's a difference if you learn a foreign language because you want to speak it (you really want to learn) or if you need to pass a low level test (you want a certificate).

The problem is also that this test is not developed for the visa requirement it is a test based on the European Reference Frame of Languages. So it is more an intelligence test than a language test and asian school systems are not comparable with western ones. So because of a logical reason 75-80% fail.

But if you teach them individually or in a group not larger than three students they have a high chance to pass this test. And this is what I am doing since 7 years (even long before the visa regulations changed).

If you interested in more explanations please write in this forum, English or German. But excuse me for now switching to German.

Seit August 2007 verlangt die deutsche Botschaft in Bangkok den Nachweis über Einfache Deutschkenntnisse für ein Visum für Thai-Ehefrauen oder heiratswilligen Thais, die in Deutschland wohnen wollen. Dieses sog. Familienzusammenführungsvisum hat als Vorraussetzung das Bestehen des Start Deutsch 1 Tests am örtlichen Goethe-Institut. Dies ist ein von der EU entwickelter Standartest konzipiert nach dem Europäischen Referenzrahmen für europäische Sprachen. Den SD1 gab es also schon lange vor der Änderung für das Ehegattenvisum.

Das Problem ist jetzt, dass die meisten Thais bei dieser Prüfung durchfallen 75-80%, weil die Klassen am Goethe zu gross sind und zu schnell unterrichtet wird. M.E. ist das Goethe durch den plötzlichen Ansturm immer noch etwas überfordert. Grosse Probleme bereitet v.a lesen und schreiben, selbst wenn sie Englisch können und das (englische) ABC kennen, oder gerade deswegen.

Diesen Personen hilft eigentlich nur Einzelunterricht oder in einer Gruppe von nicht mehr als 3 Lernenden.

Ich arbeite seit 7 Jahren in Asien, habe drei Jahre für das GI in Bangkok und Seuol gearbeitet. Ich war sogar Tester am Goethe für die SD1 Prüfung und weiss ganz genau, was die Lerner wissen müssen, um diese Prüfung zu bestehen. Ein grosses Problem ist auch der Test an sich. Das ist mehr ein Intelligenz- als ein Sprachtest. Ohne Vorbereitung würden die Meisten diesen Test auch nicht in Thai bestehen.

Wer Interesse an mehr Informationen hat, soll doch Bitte antworten.

[MPHBrunner]

Sorry users of this forum that I later will switch to German to continue writing because it is a thread which is quite important for German husbands with Thai wifes and not all of us Germans speak proper English. But you have the right to know what is going on here. So let me explain:

Since August 2007 the German embassy requiers a certificate that shows that the Thais who want to migrate to Germany need knowledge of basic German. Even if the Thai is already married to a German.

The only accepted test is Start Deutsch 1 (SD1) at Goethe-Institute in Bangkok. The GI is like British Counsil or Alliance Francaise a semigovermental institute belonging to the German Ministry of foreign affairs. Of course BC and AF are not belonging to the German ministry but to their homeland ministry.

The problem is that most of the Thai women fail SD1 because the classes are too big and the teaching is too fast for them. They have mostly problems with the German use of the alphabet or even with the alphabet itself if they never learnt it.

I was working for the GI in Bangkok and in Seoul and did nothing else since preparing students for this test and was a tester also for four years. I know exactly how to prepare someone passing this test. It's a difference if you learn a foreign language because you want to speak it (you really want to learn) or if you need to pass a low level test (you want a certificate).

The problem is also that this test is not developed for the visa requirement it is a test based on the European Reference Frame of Languages. So it is more an intelligence test than a language test and asian school systems are not comparable with western ones. So because of a logical reason 75-80% fail.

But if you teach them individually or in a group not larger than three students they have a high chance to pass this test. And this is what I am doing since 7 years (even long before the visa regulations changed).

If you interested in more explanations please write in this forum, English or German. But excuse me for now switching to German.

Seit August 2007 verlangt die deutsche Botschaft in Bangkok den Nachweis über Einfache Deutschkenntnisse für ein Visum für Thai-Ehefrauen oder heiratswilligen Thais, die in Deutschland wohnen wollen. Dieses sog. Familienzusammenführungsvisum hat als Vorraussetzung das Bestehen des Start Deutsch 1 Tests am örtlichen Goethe-Institut. Dies ist ein von der EU entwickelter Standartest konzipiert nach dem Europäischen Referenzrahmen für europäische Sprachen. Den SD1 gab es also schon lange vor der Änderung für das Ehegattenvisum.

Das Problem ist jetzt, dass die meisten Thais bei dieser Prüfung durchfallen 75-80%, weil die Klassen am Goethe zu gross sind und zu schnell unterrichtet wird. M.E. ist das Goethe durch den plötzlichen Ansturm immer noch etwas überfordert. Grosse Probleme bereitet v.a lesen und schreiben, selbst wenn sie Englisch können und das (englische) ABC kennen, oder gerade deswegen.

Diesen Personen hilft eigentlich nur Einzelunterricht oder in einer Gruppe von nicht mehr als 3 Lernenden.

Ich arbeite seit 7 Jahren in Asien, habe drei Jahre für das GI in Bangkok und Seuol gearbeitet. Ich war sogar Tester am Goethe für die SD1 Prüfung und weiss ganz genau, was die Lerner wissen müssen, um diese Prüfung zu bestehen. Ein grosses Problem ist auch der Test an sich. Das ist mehr ein Intelligenz- als ein Sprachtest. Ohne Vorbereitung würden die Meisten diesen Test auch nicht in Thai bestehen.

Wer Interesse an mehr Informationen hat, soll doch Bitte antworten.

To the administrator: Is it okay that I write in German? If so I would like to change the topic headline into German. Germans google in German and not in English. When ever I do a crosscheck on google in German this thread doesn't pop up at google search.

You will also get a translation immediately from me if somebody replies in German and you are not sure if this reply doesn't follow the rules of this forum!!!

Honestly and sincerly, Marcus

[hansnl]

English or German, you are still soliciting business, and using this forum for it.

Why not put an dual language ad in this website?

That would probably generate more business

And....the website rules are English language.

By the way, European rules from January 2009 state that all countries should have a language test for all non-EU people wishing to immigrate into the EU.

[MPHBrunner]

English or German, you are still soliciting business, and using this forum for it.

Why not put an dual language ad in this website?

That would probably generate more business

And....the website rules are English language.

By the way, European rules from January 2009 state that all countries should have a language test for all non-EU people wishing to immigrate into the EU.

I know I promote business but some couples are really in need for help and this forum is named thaivisa !?!?!?!

I have no problem continuing only in English. Germans can contact me by a personal note. And of course this law is for all EU states. But I don't know Spanish, Italian or Dutch, all I can offer is help for passing this test

[micky44]

why would any one want to live in Germany ? I should know i was born there, you can not even wash your car in the street

[MPHBrunner]

Do you really choose the country you wanna live in if you can wash your car on the street?

What about here in Bangkok?!?! Here you cannot DRIVE your car on the street - so stay here and wash it every day and let me enjoy german Autobahn

[micky44]

Do you really choose the country you wanna live in if you can wash your car on the street?

What about here in Bangkok?!?! Here you cannot DRIVE your car on the street - so stay here and wash it every day and let me enjoy german Autobahn

Great idea you stay in Germany and keep driving on the autobahns. Oh buy the way a country's name should start with a capital letter.(germany)

What kind of lessons are you giving? i hope its not grammar !!!!!!!!!!!!

[MPHBrunner]

Here you cannot DRIVE your car on the street - so stay here and wash it every day and let me enjoy german Autobahn

Great idea you stay in Germany and keep driving on the autobahns. Oh buy the way a country's name should start with a capital letter.(germany)

What kind of lessons are you giving? i hope its not grammar !!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes I even type verbs completely in capital letters. But please calm down. I'm not teaching English, so how much do you know about German writing rules????

Secondly (again in capitals) I DON'T LIVE IN GERMANY AND THERE'S A REASON FOR IT. I GUESS YOU MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND AND AT LEAST THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD

I really don't understand why you took my response so personal. Actually it is for me completely okay not being allowed to wash my car on the street (unnesseserally wastwater - an invitation for correction)

Oh and where otherwise than in Germany you can take a ride on an Autobahn (being a noun therefor writen with a starting capital letters. To make a difference in German if you use this adjective as an originally one you write it without capital letter. If you use it as a noun for the language you write it with capital letter)?

Just an example: I speak German. I am a german Idiot.

BTW I have a M.A in indoeuropean linguistics (including germanic dialects like English)

[Asianrider]

think requiring people to learn the basics of the language of the country they wish to emigrate to is a good thing and will speed up there integration..........

[Lotusbluete]

Hallo Marcus,

many thaks for your offer to help. I have two questions: I am German and live with my Asian wife (not Thai) here in Phuket. I know that the German consul over here offers some preparation courses for the test. Do you know something about those classes? Where do you conduct your lessons? Only in Bangkok? And secondly, are you familiar with the German Immigration Laws (Auslaendergesetz)? We have a child ( 2 years) and as far as I know having to take care of an underaged child frees the mother from passing the test. Is that right?

Thanks and regards

[MPHBrunner]

Hello Lotusblüte,

once I got an information that the embassy doesn't require this language test when you have an underaged child and you are going to Germany. But if the embassy in Bangkok following this I am not sure for 100%. Your child should hold a German passport anyway so that its rights are protected.

And I would advise you to ask for the visa at the German embassy of your wife's home county. After a visa scandal several years ago where the German embassy in Bangkok was involved the BKK embassy is one of the strictest. (More information is on the embassy's web side)

I am just able to give classes in Bangkok, sorry. I once tried to teach via skype but the results weren't good enough. If people are not used in learning a language the best method is still in person.

[wernerfreitag]

Hi guys,

You should not discuss pros and cons of European countries on Thaivisa. Leave this to the soccer fans , it suits better.

The topic Marcus is talking about is really a big challenge for many Thai-German couples. But it has been discussed on all the German speaking Thailand forums on the net.

Marcus may be your offer will be appreciated there.

Regards

Werner

[Bastian]

I am quite familiar with the laws concerning foreigners, the Ausländergesetz. A foreigner having custody over and taking care of an unmarried minor german child in Germany will be granted a residence permit (and visa) without the obligation to prove basic competence in the german language. However, once in Germany, the authorities will require the foreigner to attend an "integration course" worth 600-900 hours, which basically is a language course, at the conclusion of which the foreigner ought to pass the test for B1 level certification. If the foreigner has a child under the age of three, which (s)he has to take care of, the attendance of the course may be deferred until the child is older.

Foreigners, whose prospects to achieve integration by themselves are very good, are exempted both from the obligation to prove basic competence in the language to acquire a visa for family reunion with their german spouse as well as from the obligation to attend the integration course. This usually cocerns foreigners, who have a diploma from a university. The downside is, that, while it is nevertheless a good idea to take a language course, if the foreigner wants to live in Germany, he will then not be eligible for the language courses subsidized by the government, he would have to pay the full price.

[Lotusbluete]

Hallo Werner,

I really did not get the meaning of your writing. Where do we discuss the "pros and cons of European countries"? Please kindly elaborate. We just talk about Germany (and Germany only, no other European country!) and the obligatory test for the German language. So maybe you got this thread wrong.

And Marcus, yes my child has a German passport. And, yes, we had quite some problems recently to obtain a Schengen Visa for my wife to visit Germany. Apparently the German Embasy in Bangkok forwards the visa requests to the German Embassy in the country of origin of the spouse. And this German embassy has to give approval of the visa. Not the German Embassy in Bangkok!

And Bastian, many thanks for your good advice.

Regards

[MPHBrunner]

Intresting. I was working the last 3 years in Seoul and we lived there. We planned a trip to Germany and there was no problem for my Thai wife to get the visa from the embassy in Seoul.

BTW over there I didn't do anything else than preparing students for the Start Deutsch 1 exam or even higher. I was working for the Goethe-Institut in Seoul (actually I transfered from GI Bangkok to GI Seoul) and was also one of the testers in Seoul for the SD1 exam. When I met some of my colleagues several weeks ago, I learned that the requirements for the speaking part here in Bangkok are lower than at any other GI.

[Lotusbluete]

Hallo Marcus,

yes, we applied more than a month before our departure for the Schengen Visa (it was actually the 2nd time that we applied for that visa - last year we had no problems to get one!) and received the visa just the day before our departure. Imagine! The problem is that the embassy does not need to give any reasoning for the denial of the application. Inofficially and only through the intervention of the German consul here in Phuket we learned that apparently a misspelling in the name of my wife led to the delay.

But let me ask you again about the German tutorial programme. Can you give some more information about the length and the price of the programme.

Thanks and regards.

[fred2007]

Do you really choose the country you wanna live in if you can wash your car on the street?

What about here in Bangkok?!?! Here you cannot DRIVE your car on the street - so stay here and wash it every day and let me enjoy german Autobahn

[MPHBrunner]

But let me ask you again about the German tutorial programme. Can you give some more information about the length and the price of the programme.

Thanks and regards.

So what you or your wife need to know is German till level A1. Level A1 is divided in two parts A1/1 and A1/2. Here you learn how to greet in German, talk about yourself and your family, give directions, ask for food, order in a restaurant, ask for favours, write a note or postcard and so on.

The goals are described in the European Referrence Frame which you can find on goethe.de for more infos.

There are several books you can learn German with. Goethe Institut uses now Schritte international. No 1 is level A1/1 and No 2 is A1/2. The books are concipated each for 72 hours. So that means it's 144 hours of learning German NOT INCLUDING TEST PREPARATION! This would be another 40-50 hours. Recon a total of round about 200 hours to pass the test. Usually the learners feel exactly when they have it to do the test.

In individual teaching it varies between 160-230 hours. The learners should learn 3 hours a day. I avoid to call it study - it's learning. The goal is to master situations they might be confronted in Germany. So it's not about grammar training it's about handling these situations.

I charge 600 Baht per hour which is 12,50 Euro. If the German husband wants to pay me in Euro he can transfere this also to my German bank account (if he lives in Germany). But then I have to bring the money over to Thailand so I charge 15 Euros per hour.

Your wife is not Thai so I cannot predict how long it takes here to understand writing and reading. Thai people I can help much better because I can read and write Tai. Not perfect but good enough to see where the problems are for them.

If it's an emergency case I do also classes in the evening and on Saturday. But then I need to charge 900 Baht/hour which is 18,75 or 21 Euros to my German account.

Usually I don't use Schritte international. I use Tangram from the same editor (Hueber Verlag) and a lot of other materials.

You can book me monthly either morning or afternoon. This is round about 80 hours which means it's 48.000 Baht (1.000 Euro) a month. As at any school you have to pay in advance. But I keep you updated about the progress of your wife. If you are not satisfied with me you can stop after this month. So after three month she should be good enough to past the test. For the last month we (the learner and me) can predict how long we still have to go. Then it's individually 1-4 weeks of hiring me.

For evening classes it's different. People choose eve classes usually because they're working daytime. Then you cannot teach them 3 hours. After 2 concentration is gone. So eve classes are only 2 hours and therefore it takes longer.

Feel free to ask me more questions and please don't critisize me for the length. I didn't make the law and I am not in charge for setting up Start Deutsch 1. All I can do is bringing your wife through it ( a very common German phrase).

[MPHBrunner]

Hi guys,

The topic Marcus is talking about is really a big challenge for many Thai-German couples. But it has been discussed on all the German speaking Thailand forums on the net.

Marcus maybe your offer will be appreciated there.

Thanks Werner,

if you talk about the webside nittaya.de and the forum there I have the problem that here from Thailand I cannot sign in. I only have freemail email addresses (like yahoo, gmail, web) and they don't accept it.

But I would appreciate if you know other forums or tell me how I can sign in from here.

[Nignoy]

I am quite familiar with the laws concerning foreigners, the Ausländergesetz. A foreigner having custody over and taking care of an unmarried minor german child in Germany will be granted a residence permit (and visa) without the obligation to prove basic competence in the german language. However, once in Germany, the authorities will require the foreigner to attend an "integration course" worth 600-900 hours, which basically is a language course, at the conclusion of which the foreigner ought to pass the test for B1 level certification. If the foreigner has a child under the age of three, which (s)he has to take care of, the attendance of the course may be deferred until the child is older.

Foreigners, whose prospects to achieve integration by themselves are very good, are exempted both from the obligation to prove basic competence in the language to acquire a visa for family reunion with their german spouse as well as from the obligation to attend the integration course. This usually cocerns foreigners, who have a diploma from a university. The downside is, that, while it is nevertheless a good idea to take a language course, if the foreigner wants to live in Germany, he will then not be eligible for the language courses subsidized by the government, he would have to pay the full price.

There really is no problem learning german, most german children speak it fluently without learning for 300hours

[MPHBrunner]

There really is no problem learning german, most (??? ALL) german children speak it fluently without learning for 300hours

Dear Nignoy,

of course it's easy to learn a language. I speak four, three of them fluently. I understand at least seven. All Thai children speak Thai too. But they would even fail with the same percentage (75-80%) if this test would be in Thai.

It's tricky, it's not a language test, it's an IQ test in German language.

And I as a German had at least 2600 hours of learning proper German back at school (5 hours a week, 40 weeks a year, 13 years of school), therefore all Germans know the difference between ร and ล. Can you? Type in ABC, please.

Edited June 29, 2009 by MPHBrunner

[MPHBrunner]

help you llllllllllllllllllllaw ling, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraw rua

[MPHBrunner]

help you llllllllllllllllllllaw ling, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraw rua

sorry, wanna apologize for this! But I got a little bit angry because your reply was quit unqualified.

If you're not a teacher you cannot know.

Sorry again,

Marcus

[MPHBrunner]

And I as a German had at least 2600 hours of learning proper German back at school (5 hours a week, 40 weeks a year, 13 years of school), therefore all Germans know the difference between ร and ล. Can you? Type in ABC, please.

oh I also had 3000 hours of learning English. Still I'm not perfect but I can understand and express whatever I whant

[MPHBrunner]

And I as a German had at least 2600 hours of learning proper German back at school (5 hours a week, 40 weeks a year, 13 years of school), therefore all Germans know the difference between ร and ล. Can you? Type in ABC, please.

oh I also had 3000 hours of learning English. Still I'm not perfect but I can understand and express whatever I whant

Didn't anybody get it?