Bupa

[Sphere]

Bupa sent me a renewal notice stating this year premium rates are being adjusted upwards "to reflect advances in medical technology and hospital price inflation".

As the coverage benefits remain exactly the same, are Bupa actually asking policy holders to pay more for the same benefits?

So far, I have no explanation other than the excuse "costs have gone up".

Has anyone else received the same notice?

Are there any alternative medicare companies offering insurance in Thailand? I really dont relish the thought of paying more for the same service.

I would appreciate information or links to other providers. Thanks.

[george]

Got the same notice. I will keep them because i believe they are the best available in Thailand.

[shedend]

Got the same notice. I will keep them because i believe they are the best available in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I use NSI Health Care, NAM SENG INSURANCE PLC.

I have just recently had a disc removed from my L4 & L5 and NSI were excellent from my initial out patient visits up until I was discharged after the Op. There premium is fair and I actually ended up using them instead of BUPA as they offer a better deal.

Hope this gives you another option...............

[Sphere]

Thanks!

I am checking out NSI, as well as Royal Sun recommended by a friend. Both seem to have higher premiums, but their coverage and benefits are way superior than Bupa.

[daxbr]

Thank you.

Any other companies offer health insurance to expats in Thailand?

[skycop51]

261,000 bht for wife and me, thats a lot of money for us.

Bill

Thanks!

I am checking out NSI, as well as Royal Sun recommended by a friend. Both seem to have higher premiums, but their coverage and benefits are way superior than Bupa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[billaaa777]

I need health insurance. I have done quite a bit of research on the Internet attempting to determine which company to select. I even went so far as go to Bangkok Pattaya hospital to ask their international department what health insurance they considered best. They were not able to answer the question and sent me to the insurance department. The girl there did speak English, just not the best and never could really grasp the question. But she did indicate they have quite a bit of experience with BUPA.

I was first turned off by BUPA since they did not directly settle with the hospital. But that has now change and they will pay the hospital directly and you do not have to pay the hospital and later be reimbursed.

I emailed BUPA the following questions. Below is there response. It seems to me, unless I am mistaken, with the exception of some kind of accident they could deny any claim they deem fit for the first five years of your policy under the “pre-existing clause.”

I would be interested in comments on this post, and your experience with BUPA.

Does anybody know if this is standard in the industry? What are other company’s policies on pre-existing conditions?

The following was email to BUPA.

To Whom It May Concern:

I am considering your product. I have been reading quite a bit on the Internet and attempting to determine which health insurance company offers the best product. There are quite a few posts regarding your company and declining benefits due to a clause in your contract against pre-existing conditions. Some of these posts state they have been with your firm for years and paid their premiums all that time and as soon as they need you, your firm declines benefits saying it was “a pre-existing condition.”

Before I sign up with your firm, could you please answer the following questions?

A) How do you determine what is a pre-existing condition?

How long do you have to be a client before this clause is waved all together?

C) If your firm declines benefits due to this clause do you refund the paid premiums?

D) Unless I am mistaken, with the exception of an accident could your firm not just deny all claims using this as a reason?

You prompt response will be greatly appreciated.

BUPA’s Response:

Dear Khun William,

Thank you for a good question. I'd like to clarify you question by

question

A) Pre-existing conditions. This means any disease, illness or injury

Or symptoms and complications thereof for which the covered person was

Treated or knew about (or a prudent person should have been aware existed), Within 5 years before joining BUPA or it is medically proven that the member has such sickness or conditions prior to joining the BUPA health scheme.

Exclusion for pre-existing conditions may be waived if the covered

person has declared such conditions on the joining application form and

the company has agreed to cover them.

C) The Insured can terminate this policy by giving notice to the company in writing. In this event, the company will refund the premium as per the short-rated schedule The Company has the right not to refund the premium of the benefits, which have been claimed form. In the event of cancellation the whole policy will be terminated. It is

Not possible to cancel some or part of the benefits.

D) Some of accident Bupa not covered such as

- dangerous sports or activities including hunting for animals, racing

of all kinds including car, boat and horse racing, water and snow ski-ing, skating and skateboarding, boxing, parachuting, boarding or traveling in a hot air balloon, gliding, bungy jumping, mountain climbing with equipment, diving with oxygen tank and breathing equipment under water. - While the covered person is boarding or traveling in an aircraft which has no license for caring passengers or does not operate as a commercial aircraft, or whilst piloting or working on board as an employee of an airline.

-While the covered person serves as a soldier, police, or a volunteer

and participates in war or crime suppression.

There are some more that you can find at the major exclusions, where

contain in the page 3-4 of benefit section.

If you need further information or have some more questions to be clear

please do not hesitate to contact me

[Sulaphat]

It is standard insurance industry practice to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions under individual health insurance policies. Bupa's approach to this is not unusual at all.

Also, a potential policyholder needs to be exercise care when completing the application for health insurance. The application requires the proposer to disclose any and all medical conditions they have or have had. Technically there is no time limitation for disclosure and the proposer's obligation to disclose is essentially absolute. Failure to disclose can result in the entire policy being rendered void and would allow the insurer to deny a claim even for claims not related to any undisclosed or pre-existing conditions.

[jasperblubber2005]

i have been searching for an answer to your question for the last five years, i have searched the internet, made phone calls to every company that i thought could help me, what i finally will be using is IMG in the states,on one of my trips to bangkok four years ago i went to the bupa office to get some prices and i was amazed at their prices and service, they charge more than blue shied/cross here in the states and provide half of what i could get here.

the one thing you may be interested in with IMG was that they have a two waiting period for pre-existing conditions, i would continue your search, i myself, would go with-out insurance before bupa would get a penny of mine

one other choice might be a company in pattaya called PCD INTERNATIONAL CO. LTD. phone number is 6638422825, good luck

jasper

[stoneman]

I have had BUPA coverage through the BKK office for 5 years...I have full coverage for my wife, my son and myself and we have never had one problem with any claim that we have made. They have always been fully cooperative and prompt to answer all questions. We use Bumrungrad Hospital exclusively and they work very closely with BUPA.. Our full family coverage is about 25% of the cost of similar coverage in the US.

A satisfied BUPA customer

Stoneman

[Sheryl]

The part about pre-existing condition is standard and in my limited experience (one claim for one surgery -- for something that COULD have been, but wasn't, pre-existing condition) they don't try to play games with it. By which I mean they won't try to deny a claim on those grounds unless it is clearly the case. They are most likely to scrutinize claims made soon after getting the policy, especially if for a chronic type disease or condition. Anyway what they finally go by is what the doctor records in your history so be careful when answering "when did you first noticve...?" questions.

My only gripe with BUPA is that they have internal limits on reimbursement for surgery by procedure which are quite low (10% ofactual cost at Bumrungrad, for example) and they don't tell you this. You are led to believe you are covered for any surgery for the full amount of surgical coverage, but that is not so. In my case it so happened that the best specialist in Thailand for the surgery I neededhad a private practice at Phayathai 2 so I was able to get the surgery within BUPA reimbursement limits but if I had had to go to Bumrungrad or the like, I'd have had to pay a lot out of pocket. Unless these hospitals reduce their charges to fit within thei nsurance company limits....

[TerryLH]

billaaa777

Are you in Thailand now?

Are you working? If you are you should have Thai Social Security which acts as a health insurance.

Soc Sec will assign you a hospital to go to. In the last two provinces I've worked I was given a list of hospitals to choose from.

They pay the hospital directly.

Your cost is 5% of your monthly salary - up to a maximum payment of Baht 750 a month. Your employer will also contribute to your account (same amount as you do).

[TerryLH]

One more piece of info.

They cover pre-existing conditions.

Good luck.

[raro]

One more thing to look into: As to my knowledge most Thai insurance companies give you the boot once you hit the age of 70 as you may become expensive from then on.

The company I am insured with does not, pm me for more details if you like.

[Sheryl]

One advantage to BUPA, they do guarantee you for life once you rae enroleld (assuming you keep paying the premiums, that is).

Going back to the pre-existing condition thing -- to be on the safe side, get a complete physical done around the time you tsart your policy, that will provide documentation that you were in good health at that time and might come in handy if any questions arise later.

However if you do in fact have an existing condition that you are planning on trying to sneak by, I would adviser against it as insurance companies are very good at figuring things out like that. As another poster has said they can void the entire policy if it is found that you knowingly lied or withheld information on the application. Disclosing a pre-existing condition will not always cause an insurance company to refuse to insure you, it depends on what the condition is. They may agree to insure you but at a higher premium, or they may insure you but not for claims related to that conmdition for a certain time period. What they are especially worried about is people who know they need an expensive hospitalization running out and buying insurance just beforehand since that defeats the whole economics of the thing which is based on pooled risk.

[raro]

One advantage to BUPA, they do guarantee you for life once you rae enroleld (assuming you keep paying the premiums, that is).

The BUPA from Great Britain yes, BUPA - Bluecross no...unless that changed just recently

[Tywais]

One advantage to BUPA, they do guarantee you for life once you rae enroleld (assuming you keep paying the premiums, that is).

The BUPA from Great Britain yes, BUPA - Bluecross no...unless that changed just recently

I have BUPA for about 4 years now and if you get in before 60 and continue unbroken coverage they do cover for life. Just did my renewal last month.

[banpaeng]

I tried to use BUPA and because I have high BP (controlled by meds) they ruled that anything to do with the circulatoiry system wold be pre-esisting. I ask even the heart and they said yes. Don't have heart problems now and hope not to any time soon.

I kept looking and found TravelGard. on the annual medical plan they cover pre existing ( at a lower rate) if you sign on for more than 3 months. I bought the standard policy of 1 mil coverage which allows 50k to do pre existing. ( do have bad back). After studying the cost here, If my back does go out, I really think 50 K will do the trick. Recently had a claim and they paid in full quickly.

Negatives

Have to pay bill first and wait for reimbursment

They call it world wide coverage but willnot cover you in US or Canada.

I can live with above negatives. I have the 100 ded. plan and it is cheaper than I could buy insurance from my company where I retired. Actually less than half.

I am a happy customer.

[Canazin]

Do you know if Travelgard list diabetes in their pre-existing?? Also, can't find a website for them.....

[Oneman]

Bupa sent me a renewal notice stating this year premium rates are being adjusted upwards "to reflect advances in medical technology and hospital price inflation".

This is an old thread, but worth reviving.

Yesterday (May, 2009) I received a refund check from BUPA because premiums were reduced.

In my case, the refund was 40% -- amazing!

So amazing that I went to the BUPA office to inquire.

Staff there cheerfully explained that rates had just been reduced, and, since I had just renewed, they sent a refund check.

I'm one happy BUPA customer.

-- Oneman

.

[ThaivisaInsurance]

Thank you.

Any other companies offer health insurance to expats in Thailand?

Yes there are several who will deal with expats and Thais alike. Would it not be more sensible to use your Thai Visa Insurance Brokers services to get the best for you rather than chase around and try and deal with companies direct ? It really cost no more but you will get better service and help should you be unfortunate to have a problem ..................

Email us or go to the quotes page : http://insurance.thaivisa.com/quote-form

[rolfefox]

I need health insurance. I have done quite a bit of research on the Internet attempting to determine which company to select. I even went so far as go to Bangkok Pattaya hospital to ask their international department what health insurance they considered best. They were not able to answer the question and sent me to the insurance department. The girl there did speak English, just not the best and never could really grasp the question. But she did indicate they have quite a bit of experience with BUPA.

I was first turned off by BUPA since they did not directly settle with the hospital. But that has now change and they will pay the hospital directly and you do not have to pay the hospital and later be reimbursed.

I emailed BUPA the following questions. Below is there response. It seems to me, unless I am mistaken, with the exception of some kind of accident they could deny any claim they deem fit for the first five years of your policy under the “pre-existing clause.”

I would be interested in comments on this post, and your experience with BUPA.

Does anybody know if this is standard in the industry? What are other company’s policies on pre-existing conditions?

The following was email to BUPA.

To Whom It May Concern:

I am considering your product. I have been reading quite a bit on the Internet and attempting to determine which health insurance company offers the best product. There are quite a few posts regarding your company and declining benefits due to a clause in your contract against pre-existing conditions. Some of these posts state they have been with your firm for years and paid their premiums all that time and as soon as they need you, your firm declines benefits saying it was “a pre-existing condition.”

Before I sign up with your firm, could you please answer the following questions?

A) How do you determine what is a pre-existing condition?

How long do you have to be a client before this clause is waved all together?

C) If your firm declines benefits due to this clause do you refund the paid premiums?

D) Unless I am mistaken, with the exception of an accident could your firm not just deny all claims using this as a reason?

You prompt response will be greatly appreciated.

BUPA’s Response:

Dear Khun William,

Thank you for a good question. I'd like to clarify you question by

question

A) Pre-existing conditions. This means any disease, illness or injury

Or symptoms and complications thereof for which the covered person was

Treated or knew about (or a prudent person should have been aware existed), Within 5 years before joining BUPA or it is medically proven that the member has such sickness or conditions prior to joining the BUPA health scheme.

Exclusion for pre-existing conditions may be waived if the covered

person has declared such conditions on the joining application form and

the company has agreed to cover them.

C) The Insured can terminate this policy by giving notice to the company in writing. In this event, the company will refund the premium as per the short-rated schedule The Company has the right not to refund the premium of the benefits, which have been claimed form. In the event of cancellation the whole policy will be terminated. It is

Not possible to cancel some or part of the benefits.

D) Some of accident Bupa not covered such as

- dangerous sports or activities including hunting for animals, racing

of all kinds including car, boat and horse racing, water and snow ski-ing, skating and skateboarding, boxing, parachuting, boarding or traveling in a hot air balloon, gliding, bungy jumping, mountain climbing with equipment, diving with oxygen tank and breathing equipment under water. - While the covered person is boarding or traveling in an aircraft which has no license for caring passengers or does not operate as a commercial aircraft, or whilst piloting or working on board as an employee of an airline.

-While the covered person serves as a soldier, police, or a volunteer

and participates in war or crime suppression.

There are some more that you can find at the major exclusions, where

contain in the page 3-4 of benefit section.

If you need further information or have some more questions to be clear

please do not hesitate to contact me

I have been denied payment by BUPA because of a 3 year old cholesterol test BUPA claiming the result was a prexisting condition...has anyone had to secure a laywer to to get fair payment from them..?

[madmitch]

If you have a pre-existing condition that you are aware of then declare it on the application. It is possible that they won't exclude it or they may impose a co-insurance rather than a full exclusion, i.e. you will be liable to pay a percentage of any treatment costs.

If it is a pre-existing condition that you are unaware of, they will have difficulty denying the claim.

As a previous poster stated, a full health check prior to taking out the insurance can be a good idea, provided you are not found to have any health problems. If, however, you are diagnosed with something of which you were previously unaware, it could subsequently be excluded under a health policy. So, it's a difficult call.

Finally, check the policies and coverage for a number of companies if you can. Remember, you get what you pay for with insurance.

[rolfefox]

If you have a pre-existing condition that you are aware of then declare it on the application. It is possible that they won't exclude it or they may impose a co-insurance rather than a full exclusion, i.e. you will be liable to pay a percentage of any treatment costs.

If it is a pre-existing condition that you are unaware of, they will have difficulty denying the claim.

As a previous poster stated, a full health check prior to taking out the insurance can be a good idea, provided you are not found to have any health problems. If, however, you are diagnosed with something of which you were previously unaware, it could subsequently be excluded under a health policy. So, it's a difficult call.

Finally, check the policies and coverage for a number of companies if you can. Remember, you get what you pay for with insurance.

I have been recently been denied payment for a heart stent by BUPA because they say a 3 year old cholesterol test

that I forgot about was 211. This does not fall in BUPAs definition of a pre-existing condition however they chose not to pay.

Has anybody else had a similar experience?

[madmitch]

If you have a pre-existing condition that you are aware of then declare it on the application. It is possible that they won't exclude it or they may impose a co-insurance rather than a full exclusion, i.e. you will be liable to pay a percentage of any treatment costs.

If it is a pre-existing condition that you are unaware of, they will have difficulty denying the claim.

As a previous poster stated, a full health check prior to taking out the insurance can be a good idea, provided you are not found to have any health problems. If, however, you are diagnosed with something of which you were previously unaware, it could subsequently be excluded under a health policy. So, it's a difficult call.

Finally, check the policies and coverage for a number of companies if you can. Remember, you get what you pay for with insurance.

I have been recently been denied payment for a heart stent by BUPA because they say a 3 year old cholesterol test

that I forgot about was 211. This does not fall in BUPAs definition of a pre-existing condition however they chose not to pay.

Has anybody else had a similar experience?

How long have you been insured with BUPA?

I am no doctor but I would have thoughht the fact that your cholesterol is or was high does not necessarily mean that there is anything wrong with your heart/arteries etc. It is a warning sign. Under the strict interpretation I would suggest that there is no pre-exisiting condition. Also did you do anything regarding your diet in particular to reduce your cholesterol level?

However, if your policy has been recently taken out, it could be said that you should have declared this cholesterol test result on the health declaration part of the application and that's probably where the difficulty in the claim arises.

It's a tough one but could be worth fighting, assuming that the claim would be covered under the general terms and conditions of the policy.

[ADSW]

BUPA THAILAND ARE THE SAME AS ANY USA INSURANCE COMPANY >>> THEY NEVER PAY OUT

Bupa Thailand are a complete con .. I am 47 years old and have never seen a doctor about six months ago I needed to see a doctor for stomach problems .

I went to bangkok hospital and asked about bupa and paying .. They said Bupa dont pay .. I went to phuket international and they said ..Bupa dont pay ... I had a consultation anyway and have had the policy for nine months so I insisted that the cost of a endoscopy internal inspection be claimed from Bupa .

Bupas answer ... We will need to do a medical background check and we will need SIX SEEKS to complete it ..

First they don't cover you for the first month then when you claim they want SIX weeks to do a check .

I was in pain and they could not care less . I had the top Platinum Policy and they still wanted six weeks to do a check .

They after plenty of communication now ignore my requests , I have recovered as it was a minor problem

But they actually told me even a heart attack would be checked .." for pre existing condition " will someone tell me how a heart attack could be anything other than a pre existing condtion it takes years to clog your veins .

They are not worth a cent, get insurence from you home country ..ASK ANY HOSPITAL IF BUPA PAY.. They have to many gets outs for it to be worth the paper its written on.

[sabaijai]

I'v used BUPA for 10 years and have no complaints at all. In fact the service I've received all along has been noticeably better than I've had from health insurers in my home country.

BUPA has covered two surgeries during that time, one at Rutnin Eye Hospital for 42,000 baht and one at BNH for 180,000 baht. In both cases they covered 100% of all costs, no questions asked. In both cases I cleared it with BUPA first, as instructed. I had the examining doctor make the phone call in both cases.

When I renewed my annual policy this past July, I was offered a 15% discount on my premium after I mentioned to the representative I was thinking of reducing coverage to the next lowest level.

The list of hospitals in Bangkok covered by BUPA is quite long. None are exempted as far as I know, so either ADSW is pushing a hidden agenda or there's more to his case than meets the eye.

[tlcwaterfall]

BUPA THAILAND ARE THE SAME AS ANY USA INSURANCE COMPANY >>> THEY NEVER PAY OUT

Bupa Thailand are a complete con .. I am 47 years old and have never seen a doctor about six months ago I needed to see a doctor for stomach problems .

I went to bangkok hospital and asked about bupa and paying .. They said Bupa dont pay .. I went to phuket international and they said ..Bupa dont pay ... I had a consultation anyway and have had the policy for nine months so I insisted that the cost of a endoscopy internal inspection be claimed from Bupa .

Bupas answer ... We will need to do a medical background check and we will need SIX SEEKS to complete it ..

First they don't cover you for the first month then when you claim they want SIX weeks to do a check .

I was in pain and they could not care less . I had the top Platinum Policy and they still wanted six weeks to do a check .

They after plenty of communication now ignore my requests , I have recovered as it was a minor problem

But they actually told me even a heart attack would be checked .." for pre existing condition " will someone tell me how a heart attack could be anything other than a pre existing condtion it takes years to clog your veins .

They are not worth a cent, get insurence from you home country ..ASK ANY HOSPITAL IF BUPA PAY.. They have to many gets outs for it to be worth the paper its written on.

Very sorry for your pain and glad you have recovered. Will take your experience into account as I am looking for insurance at the moment.

But why does it take six seeks to complete the medical background check, Surely six Thais could do it just as well

[Sheryl]

2 similiar threads have been merged and topic title edited slightly. Duplicative posts have been deleted.

I have BUPA (hospitalization only), only once made a claim, this was paid directly to the hospital with no problem. It was elective surgery so per BUPA policy I cleared it with them in advance. It was at Phayathai 2 which seemed quite used to being paid by BUPA. I don't know, though, if the fact that it had been pre-approved made a difference i.e. if the hospital might otherwise have asked me to pay and get reimbursed.

I would imagine that before a hospital would agree to bill the inmsurance company directly they'd require some assurance from the company it would pay, since the hospital would otherwise be stuck trying to chase down the former patient if the clauim were denied. Where the hospital has pre-approved the procedure this is no problem, but I have wondered what would happen in case of an emergency hospitalization. Would be interested to hear from anyone with BUPA who has experience with that.

[fremmel]

About five years ago I was admitted to Bangkok Pattaya Hospital late Sunday afternoon with the sudden onset of some strange symptoms that the doctors couldn't readily diagnosis. I have the 5 million baht Platinum BUPA hospitalization coverage which promises no deposit at member hospitals. But I got to wait an hour or so while in the admitting office while the hospital talked to BUPA before I was finally admitted without a deposit. Even after an incredible amount of tests they never did decide what was wrong with me and this was a problem. The doctors just gave me systemic cortisone as symptomatic relief which cleared up everything fine. But BUPA wouldn't pay without a diagnosis. And they didn't bother to tell me they wouldn't pay until late Friday afternoon before I was scheduled to be released Saturday morning - the day Song Kran started. So instead of warning me ahead of time when it would be easier to make some arrangements they decided to tell me late in the day before a major holiday.

Later, the doctors finally just decided to just call it something like viral arthritis so I got a diagnosis. A month or two, and a bunch of calls, after that BUPA decided the claim was legitimate and reimbursed me. On the plus side, when they did decide to pay they did it right and paid the full amount, including followup doctor visits and home medication.

Maybe if I'd just had a broken leg, an inflamed appendix, or other easily recognized ailment it would have been fine. Anything out of the ordinary seems to be a problem.