joskydive Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) She later realised that Nathan was missing... That shows she was not watching him. It would take a considerable amount of time for a 14 yo to loiter around the grate, decide to open it, attempt to open it, go get help to open it, then open it. Come on! That had to be a fair amount of time to be unsupervised by the step-mother. i]and the Lifeguards who always seem to position themselves on the bridges so they have a better view of what's going on. So, if as you say, it takes a considerable amount of time for this lad to have opened the grid, they should have seen him do it![/i]. I believe the management are wholly responsible here because they are the one's who decide when and what maintenance is done and also who they employ whether that is maintenance staff or lifeguards, qualified or not. I also saw somewhere that they have already offered money in compensation for his life. I wonder how much they have valued that at!!!! While they do share the responsibility in that the grate should have been sealed effectively, the step-mother is the guardian and was negligent in the supervision of the boy. The ultimate responsibility for the boy's safety is hers alone. The responsibility also lies with the Water Park too. They advertise this place as a family leisure park where families can go and relax and enjoy themselves. The whole idea of having Lifeguards is, so people can chill out, otherwise, why bother having them! However, from what you have written, it seems to me that you have a real problem with step-mothers and nothing more. Edited July 11, 2009 by joskydive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imkah Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I can name a lot of people on this forum I would not ever want to shake hands or share a beer with. I can say that any child left in MY care has a great SAFE time and will be there when the parents come back. No parent should ever leave their child with anyone who is less than overly paranoid about safety. If that makes me a responsible, safe _ssh_le in your book, then I hope I make the cover page. I am happy for all children in YOUR care; but the fact here is that safety-regulations were obviously not adhered to at this venue. And, as is normal procedure in Western countries it is important to fault owners of establishment until fault possibly is found elsewhere. If this is not done, how the hel_l do you avoid an accident like this to happen again? I am myself responsible for a high risk business: we have accidents approx every second year and part of the game is that you (me and my company) don't take responsibility: no customers. And please wake up: have you ever taken care of a 14 year old? Me don't think so, and if you have.. what a life you forced on him/her! Please stop harassing the bereaved parents only to tell the world how fantastic you are! And have a nice weekend y'all. Signing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 RIP Naythin,and condolences to the family. I think it's correct to blame the Park Management and/or the employees for the loss of such a young life.It seems nearly impossible that the boy have lifted that grate by himself,but even if he did,the fault lies on the Waterpark.The grate should have been locked. BTW,it unbelievable how some poster can blame the poor stepmother,everybody with half a brain should feel compassion for her. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNGLIFE Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 and the Lifeguards who always seem to position themselves on the bridges so they have a better view of what's going on. So, if as you say, it takes a considerable amount of time for this lad to have opened the grid, they should have seen him do it. They advertise this place as a family leisure park...The whole idea of having Lifeguards is, so people can chill out. Your attitude of paying admission and shoving off responsibility is a perfect example of why these things happen in the first place. A lifeguard is NOT a babysitter. A lifeguard will REACT to someone signaling for help. A lifeguard can not possibly be expected to monitor the movements or predict the intentions of every child in the pool. For all we know, the lifeguard could have been focusing on a group of toddlers splashing water around or running near the edge of the pool! Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps the lifeguard was doing his job focusing on other children??? Sheesh! You people amaze me. Have fun at the water park, but please do not take your kids with your attitude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joskydive Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 and the Lifeguards who always seem to position themselves on the bridges so they have a better view of what's going on. So, if as you say, it takes a considerable amount of time for this lad to have opened the grid, they should have seen him do it. They advertise this place as a family leisure park...The whole idea of having Lifeguards is, so people can chill out. Your attitude of paying admission and shoving off responsibility is a perfect example of why these things happen in the first place. A lifeguard is NOT a babysitter. A lifeguard will REACT to someone signaling for help. A lifeguard can not possibly be expected to monitor the movements or predict the intentions of every child in the pool. For all we know, the lifeguard could have been focusing on a group of toddlers splashing water around or running near the edge of the pool! Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps the lifeguard was doing his job focusing on other children??? Sheesh! You people amaze me. Have fun at the water park, but please do not take your kids with your attitude... I have taken my kid and also my grandson there and yes, we did have fun! However, with YOUR attitude it would have spoilt the whole day. I feel quite sorry for any child in your care because with your attitude they will most likely have very few new experiences in their lives and grow up so lacking in self confidence and independant thought that they will most likely still be waiting for Dad to take them to the toilet for a pee at the age of 30 just incase they fall down the plughole!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawpcorn Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pictures of the 21 kg grill "cover": My condolences to the boy's family and friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toja Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) This toppic has gotten way out of hand - lets remember what it´s about - a 14 year old boy has lost his life! The nonsense about blaming no one, because "that won´t bring him back", speaks for itself, that´s exactly why this kind of tragedy can happen over and over again in Asia. "Mai ben rai" is not tolerance - it´s neglience! Of course the blame must be put on the waterpark, when the proper investigation has been done... If ever? But now the tread is a lot about some parents saying, that the boy was neglected by his stepmom not watching him like a hawk??? Come on, have you all forgotten, what it was like to be a 14 year old boy (men exclusively of course!) Now the debate has gotten just a little too american for my taste - who the <deleted>.. would look after a teenage boy like that, hopefully not sane parents? We are not reading, and now commenting, on the death of a 4,7 or maybe even 9 year old, but a teenager - with muscle power to (maybe) raise the cover of the so called "engine room", by himself. Saying that does´nt mean, that I blame him - not at all, that´s what confirm my point, that it´s the waterparks fault - i should´nt be allowed to happen in the first place - ergo: The park stands to blame - not the parents. Get back in the game, control freak parents!!! Edited July 11, 2009 by toja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNGLIFE Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) control freak parents!!! We freak parents understand that even a 14 yo is STILL a minor and will do things out of blind unknowing curiosity. We freak parents understand that is WHY we are there and WHY even a 14 yo needs supervision. The parent/guardian is 100% responsible for watching her child. NOT the lifeguard. The water park is responsible for ensuring that everything that is supposed to be safe is, in fact, safe. Neither the water park nor the lifeguard are substitutes for the supervising parent. Anyone who thinks otherwise is doomed to see this sort of thing happen to them or someone they love. Be responsible for your child or elect not to be a parent. The step-mother has learned the importance of needing to be responsible for the supervision of this child the hard way - and much too late. I have zero sympathy for her or any other negligent parent. It is apparent you all think just like her. Too bad... Edited July 11, 2009 by SNGLIFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 This toppic has gotten way out of hand - lets remember what it´s about - a 14 year old boy has lost his life!The nonsense about blaming no one, because "that won´t bring him back", speaks for itself, that´s exactly why this kind of tragedy can happen over and over again in Asia. "Mai ben rai" is not tolerance - it´s neglience! Of course the blame must be put on the waterpark, when the proper investigation has been done... If ever? But now the tread is a lot about some parents saying, that the boy was neglected by his stepmom not watching him like a hawk??? Come on, have you all forgotten, what it was like to be a 14 year old boy (men exclusively of course!) Now the debate has gotten just a little too american for my taste - who the <deleted>.. would look after a teenage boy like that, hopefully not sane parents? We are not reading, and now commenting, on the death of a 4,7 or maybe even 9 year old, but a teenager - with muscle power to (maybe) raise the cover of the so called "engine room", by himself. Saying that does´nt mean, that I blame him - not at all, that´s what confirm my point, that it´s the waterparks fault - i should´nt be allowed to happen in the first place - ergo: The park stands to blame - not the parents. Get back in the game, control freak parents!!! I agree. The defamatory and possibly libellous comments will stop now or more formal moderator action will be taken than mere deletion. If you see an inflammatory post then please use the report button, do not respond with further flames as then everyone involved will find themselves receiving formal moderator action. I do hope this thread can return to civility and common sense. One more defamatory post will be one more too many. I do hope this is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 My sympathy to the father, but zero sympathy for the step-mother. It is NOT the responsibility of the lifeguard or pool owners This parent WAS watching her child, saw something happen and raised the alarm. The staff refused to take action. Once there is an emergency in your facility you better believe it's the responsibility of the staff and management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambrutri Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 From the age of 11 I went the swimming baths every week with my friends of the same age with no parents. We would walk there from my house and cross a lot main roads This was not unusual for a teenage kid . The grate in the pool should be locked shut. The pool should be closed immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joskydive Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) control freak parents!!! We freak parents understand that even a 14 yo is STILL a minor and will do things out of blind unknowing curiosity. We freak parents understand that is WHY we are there and WHY even a 14 yo needs supervision. The parent/guardian is 100% responsible for watching her child. NOT the lifeguard. The water park is responsible for ensuring that everything that is supposed to be safe is, in fact, safe.[/i] Neither the water park nor the lifeguard are substitutes for the supervising parent. Anyone who thinks otherwise is doomed to see this sort of thing happen to them or someone they love. Be responsible for your child or elect not to be a parent. The step-mother has learned the importance of needing to be responsible for the supervision of this child the hard way - and much too late. I have zero sympathy for her or any other negligent parent. It is apparent you all think just like her. Too bad... Precisely! The water park is responsible for the safety, but, in fact, they had not secured the grill cover. Had they done so, we would not be discussing the sad demise of a 14 year old boy. Edited July 11, 2009 by joskydive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiresok Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 From a look at the pictures it isn't obvious to me that the grate has any holes for fixing bolts, or other locking mechanism. Possibly the original design wasn't meant for the cover to be secured. A lot of questions to be asked and answered yet. Further, from the video, this cover is located very centrally and you would have thought that someone would have seen what was happening with the lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) This is a sad event that on hindsight should never have happened but it did and as I have already posted some of the question that need answering. Unfortunately this is Thailand and as it seems to happen time and time again in similar tragedies all goes quite soon after the event, may be some sod of a under trained menial employee takes the rap while the managers and owners who probably have already been for warned that such equipment was unsafe but choose to ignore in the interest of profit worm their way out. Yes, if this happened in the UK the park would be closed while HSE inspectors conducted an inquiry into what happened and inspected the whole park for safety violations and possibly stay closed until certain improvements were made, but this is Thailand and probably the family will receive "compensation" which will be peanuts compared to what the owners make to certain persons at Pattaya City Hall and other government officials in order that the park will remain open and they or their mangers never get prosecuted. Edited July 11, 2009 by Basil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanmiguellight Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) Touching to read that Rhys, but you cant blame yourself for what happened it sounds like 2 young brothers doing what brothers do .... I hope you can come to terms one day soon with what has happened. Edited July 11, 2009 by sanmiguellight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintofsilence Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Hi Rhys you cannot take this blame on your shoulders its an accident the grate should have been secure , the pool owners should be held responsible in my opinion. This is a very sad event and my condolences to you and your family , stay strong your brother would want that . sos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee123 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) This is Thailand I know.Western standards of safety (which sometimes seem draconian)do not always apply,BUT for heavens sake Pattaya Park is considered to be a "family" destination and we hear of the tourist board trying to woo "quality tourists",.....well as I said in my earlier post,I and two others who have posted today alone have found to our cost that the water at the end of the water shoot is nowhere deep enough.I personally spent 3 weeks in real pain recovering from the accident I had there.Many people know/knew about this problem.Obviously the staff who worked there knew. Do the Thai authorities and owners of Pattaya Park think that this sort of negligence (at least regarding the waterslide)would not one day come back to haunt them? surely you would expect an adult to have the common sense,when exiting the slide to have legs raised, & hit the water with your backside !!!........Bri. I guess there are some people who just don't get it,...Bri..obviously you are one.It don't matter a flying fuc_k if you keep your legs up or down.The pool at the bottom of the waterslide is too shallow.GET IT?Thats the idea buddy.SAFETY.Its supposed to be safe even when you keep your legs up or down.If your still not convinced and think I was to blame,why don't you try it yourself.You have tried the waterslide haven't you? Edited July 11, 2009 by dee123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiresok Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 A similar occurrance in UK. Fortunately this had a happy ending. Dont see any guard here though. undefined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 They don't lock down most man hole covers either. The expectation is that most folks won't pry them open to go down for a swim. I suspect the double standard will apply here in that no one will be blaming the parents for lack of monitoring of their children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 They don't lock down most man hole covers either. The expectation is that most folks won't pry them open to go down for a swim. I suspect the double standard will apply here in that no one will be blaming the parents for lack of monitoring of their children. The parents DID monitor the child (if you bothered to read it) but when they raised the alarm the staff took no action. Manhole covers weigh 100+ pounds and are usually in the middle of traffic, not children's play parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heng Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) They don't lock down most man hole covers either. The expectation is that most folks won't pry them open to go down for a swim. I suspect the double standard will apply here in that no one will be blaming the parents for lack of monitoring of their children. The parents DID monitor the child (if you bothered to read it) but when they raised the alarm the staff took no action. Manhole covers weigh 100+ pounds and are usually in the middle of traffic, not children's play parks. Monitoring your children includes their entire lives up to the point where they might do something that might endanger their lives. There's a balance between raising independent children and those who live/act/play too close to the edge. They don't lock down the manhole covers in children's play parks/Disneyland/Disney World either. Edited July 12, 2009 by Heng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think the blame game needs to be stopped..... The kid could have been monitored better...he wasnt....and most 14 yo's arent monitored as closely as younger kids....That is not unusual and blame shouldnt be put on the stepmum....imagine how she feels right now. BTW who was the white guy in the pics......there was a family group of five....mum, 2 boys, sister and who? Was Dad there as well? The lifeguards didnt respond as quickly as they could have done......chances are even if they did they couldnt have saved the life of the kid, he had been missing some time before they were informed. I agree that once informed they should have reacted better but...would it have made a difference? The grill would have been easy to lift from one side, there would have been no water resistance due to it being a grill not a solid plate....things in the water usually seem lighter as the water supports it....once out of the water it becomes heavier. The park itself.......thousands of kids have been there and this hasnt happened before......was it foreseeable......probably not....you cant protect people from every possibility. A tragic accident caused by a kids curiosity and sense of adventure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterphil Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think the blame game needs to be stopped.....The kid could have been monitored better...he wasnt....and most 14 yo's arent monitored as closely as younger kids....That is not unusual and blame shouldnt be put on the stepmum....imagine how she feels right now. BTW who was the white guy in the pics......there was a family group of five....mum, 2 boys, sister and who? Was Dad there as well? The lifeguards didnt respond as quickly as they could have done......chances are even if they did they couldnt have saved the life of the kid, he had been missing some time before they were informed. I agree that once informed they should have reacted better but...would it have made a difference? The grill would have been easy to lift from one side, there would have been no water resistance due to it being a grill not a solid plate....things in the water usually seem lighter as the water supports it....once out of the water it becomes heavier. The park itself.......thousands of kids have been there and this hasnt happened before......was it foreseeable......probably not....you cant protect people from every possibility. A tragic accident caused by a kids curiosity and sense of adventure.... From what my wife has told me by translation of the Thai TV News there was Dad, Step mam and 3 boys. Yesterday the TV was saying that Dad was working away in India but thats just the media with a story I guess. Pattaya Daily News website has a video clip of during the boy is missing and after they find the body. Very disturbing so be aware. Get your wife to translate what the Step Mum is saying, total neglact on the parks side. The grill weighs 21kg so roughly it would be a 3rd of the weight under water, 7kg easy for a 14 year old boy to lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Please bear in mind that members of the boys family might read what is being said here in their search for more information. Let's ty to be respectful and not add grief to this very sad event. For this reason I have deleted several post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Whatever the circumstances this is nothing but an unmitigated deeply sad tragedy. Blame and calls of incompetence add nothing so why bother to make them. The only thing to express here is profound regret that one so young was taken, regardless of how.Deepest sympathy to the family who will face weeks and months of soul searching and loss. Because blames and calls of incompetence may save another childs life.I would want someone held responsible,as i am sure would you,if it was someone you loved. I went to Pattaya Park 2-3 years ago, tough not the water part of the complex. The place was badly run. The advertisement I saw was deceptive (actually I wrote to a couple of Pattaya publications asking them not to publish the ad, but they contine putting ads of the Park). The buffet was a total rip-off. Staffs who operated the cable ride from the top of the tower were unfriendly (probably because they were poorly paid or treated). I was so pissed off that I will never visit the place again. I guess this death case has a lot to do with the Park itself. I agree about the cable ride. The man putting on the harness was very rude and rough, plus the access to the drop off was poorly designed. As for the OP, I haven't read all the pages, but it seems to me that the boy was found in the engine room, not in the pump mechanism, and the access cover was left off. Perhaps he went exploring and either got injured in exposed machinery, or overcome by fumes. Frankly, it doesn't surprise me with the poor state of maintenance in most Thai facilities. Even on the Pattaya beach walkway there is a large unguarded hole with a cavity under just waiting for some unsuspecting tourist to fall through and be severely injured. There just does not seem to be the interest in maintenance after something is built, here. I could give dozens of examples of death traps around Thailand, so till attitudes on management side improve, such tragedies will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 The blaming game is not played here. For this reason I have deleted a post and several replies to it and any further postings of this will be considereda violation of the forum rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) This topic should be closed without further delay! Edited July 12, 2009 by LennyW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Posts of the family have been deleted on their request. My sympathies go out to them in these sad and hard times. As to not cause further grief this topic is now closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 A 14-year-old boy from the Isle of Man has died on holiday in Thailand after he was sucked into a swimming pool vent.Nathan Clark was on holiday with his father, brother, stepbrother and stepmother in the resort of Pattaya and was due to return home this week. Nathan, who had been attending an international school in the country for the past year, was in a whirlwind-type swimming pool at a water park. It is thought that he lost his goggles at the bottom of the pool and tried to remove a grate to fetch them before he was swept into the pool’s pump system. His mother, Marion, who was at home in Douglas on the Isle of Man, said that she thought her son had removed an unsecured grille to gain access to a vent. His elder brother, Rhys, 15, who was also in the pool, called for help after Nathan disappeared but the family later alleged that lifeguards initially failed to help because they did not believe that the grille could be moved. Nathan’s father, Jimmy, jumped into the pool to try to find him. It was claimed that only then did the lifeguard start a search of the pumping system. Nathan’s body was found in a pipe connected to the pool 20 minutes after the alarm was raised. Local news sources said that the incident, on Friday afternoon happened at the Pattaya Park Hotel, a large hotel complex about 60 miles from the capital. Nathan had been due to return to the Isle of Man on Wednesday. His father works for an Indian engineering company and is believed to live overseas. Source: The Times online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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