How Many IRS Criminals Out There?

[TongueThaied]

How Many IRS Criminals Out There???

I recently read in The Nation, on page 11A, 07/15/2009, that the U.S. government requires ALL U.S. citizens that have one or more bank accounts in a country outside the U.S. with an aggregate value of US$10,000 (Bt340,000) or more at any time during the calendar year must file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR), IRS Form TD F 90-22.1. The filing is required under the U.S. Bank Secrecy Act and failure to do so for a non-willful violation (you didn’t know) carries penalties of up to US$10,000. A willful violation (which now includes everybody that read this) carries penalties of up to $100,000 or half the value of the unreported account.

Has anybody ever heard of this??? Has anybody complied? Is anybody going to comply?

This sounds like some serious sh/t.

[Jingthing]

I always comply. The fines are huge. The deadline WAS June 30 or the previous year. You send to the treasury department, not IRS.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Jingthing

[bkkjames]

How Many IRS Criminals Out There???

I recently read in The Nation, on page 11A, 07/15/2009, that the U.S. government requires ALL U.S. citizens that have one or more bank accounts in a country outside the U.S. with an aggregate value of US$10,000 (Bt340,000) or more at any time during the calendar year must file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR), IRS Form TD F 90-22.1. The filing is required under the U.S. Bank Secrecy Act and failure to do so for a non-willful violation (you didn’t know) carries penalties of up to US$10,000. A willful violation (which now includes everybody that read this) carries penalties of up to $100,000 or half the value of the unreported account.

Has anybody ever heard of this??? Has anybody complied? Is anybody going to comply?

This sounds like some serious sh/t.

Thanks alot mate, until you posted this, apparently I was only on the hook for 10k, now it's 100k. Should I send you an invoice for the difference?

[QED]

Unless you are a US taxpayer then surely it's none of their business?

I am from the UK and non-resident for tax purposes. I will not be disclosing any overseas assets to them in this lifetime, it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

<"Thanks alot mate, until you posted this, apparently I was only on the hook for 10k, now it's 100k. Should I send you an invoice for the difference?">

Haha, spilt my tea over that one lol.

[ScubaBuddha]

How Many IRS Criminals Out There???

I recently read in The Nation, on page 11A, 07/15/2009, that the U.S. government requires ALL U.S. citizens that have one or more bank accounts in a country outside the U.S. with an aggregate value of US$10,000 (Bt340,000) or more at any time during the calendar year must file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR), IRS Form TD F 90-22.1. The filing is required under the U.S. Bank Secrecy Act and failure to do so for a non-willful violation (you didn't know) carries penalties of up to US$10,000. A willful violation (which now includes everybody that read this) carries penalties of up to $100,000 or half the value of the unreported account.

Has anybody ever heard of this??? Has anybody complied? Is anybody going to comply?

This sounds like some serious sh/t.

Thanks alot mate, until you posted this, apparently I was only on the hook for 10k, now it's 100k. Should I send you an invoice for the difference?

Yes, ToungueTied now owes us all 90k.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

ir12

[longball53098]

If you file you're taxes on a 1040 you are also required to complete a Schedule B lines 7a and 7b in relation to this reporting a foreign account

[Jingthing]

If you file you're taxes on a 1040 you are also required to complete a Schedule B lines 7a and 7b in relation to this reporting a foreign account

A very good point and exactly right. So if you lie on that form and also don't file to treasury they have you by the short hairs, don't bend over to pick up the soap, unless you like that sort of thing ... Of, course IF thet catch you.

Also if you report on the IRS form and don't report to treasury, you're busted.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Jingthing

[Tywais]

And this year, instead of just a check box that you have over $10,000 in a foreign bank you have to specify exactly how much it is. Bit too nosy seems to me.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I imagine that is to catch up with all the big bucks people like Madoff, keeping their money off shore.

Doubt if Thailand would be one of the places big money resides, to much red tape bringing it in and taking it out, and the earnings suck.

[Jingthing]

And this year, instead of just a check box that you have over $10,000 in a foreign bank you have to specify exactly how much it is. Bit too nosy seems to me.

I agree. It is very nosy. Not a good trend.

[Chunkton]

Sounds very fascist to me, but that seems to be the way the US is moving. Mind you they need extra money to pay for the banker bailouts. If I was American I would be happy to donate to a worthy cause like that.

[Heng]

Try somewhere (not Thailand) that fixed deposits don't have automatic 15% withholding. ehm... HK, ehm... Singapore.

[taxout]

First, if you didn't file the Foreign Bank Account Report by June 30, then in certain cases you can file by September 23 of this year without penalty.

Details here:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=210174,00.html

This applies to 2009 only.

Second, not only does the current FBAR require you to disclose the exact maximum amount of the accounts, but the Obama Administration has now proposed legislation which would, in addition, require the reporting of all transfers to or from a foreign bank account (unless they aggregate less than $10,000):

"Proposal: A U.S. individual would be required to report . . . any transfer of money or property made to, or receipt of money or property from, any foreign bank, brokerage or other financial account by the individual . . . ."

http://ustreas.gov/offices/tax-policy/library/grnbk09.pdf at page 46.

[Jingthing]

but the Obama Administration has now proposed legislation which would, in addition, require the reporting of all transfers to or from a foreign bank account (unless they aggregate less than $10,000):

Say is ain't so, Barack-o, say it ain't so ...

[taxout]

Better keep those ATM receipts . . . .

[taxout]

Looking at them in more detail, the Obama proposals are even sillier than I thought.

In addition to requiring reports on all transfers you make to or from a foreign bank account (unless the transfers aggregate less than $10,000/year), the proposals would require that you report foreign bank account information on both your tax return and FBAR:

"Individual taxpayers required to file an FBAR would be required to disclose certain information on their income tax returns. The information would be disclosed on a schedule that would be considered part of the individual's tax return. . . . and would require the taxpayer to provide information such as the account number, financial institution, and maximum value during the year. . . . The tax return disclosure would not replace or mitigate the individual's obligation to separately file an FBAR with the Treasury Department . . . ."

See page 47 of the Treasury Department document linked above.

[Dakhar]

I reported the amount in the bank, and my Singapore City Bank had me sign some forms that stated that City Bank does report the money to the US

So I had no real choice in the matter, becuase if Singapore reported to the US and I did not.... that would not work out too well.

Obama.... I like the guy and all, but reporting moving money around is just plain crazy.

[longball53098]

I'd say the IRS/US gov is looking for any and all ways to tax our money to pay for all this socialization.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Can you imagine the huge number of people IRS will have to employ to handle the paperwork? One way to reduce unemployment numbers, increase the number of fed employees.

[Spee]

And this year, instead of just a check box that you have over $10,000 in a foreign bank you have to specify exactly how much it is. Bit too nosy seems to me.

It's been way beyond nosy for a long time. The IRS is a positively draconian organization with policies worse than a mafia loan shark, despite Constitutional protection against usury. The best anyone is every going to do is to keep 50% of their property. It is the IRS' goal to take 100%, and if they can, put you in debt to them at the same time. The fines, penalties and interest rates of several multiples of any debt owed should be considered cruel and inhuman punishment. Eventually all they will do is drive more of the economy underground or drive people to revolt.

If you want to really see an invasion of privacy, take a look at the census forms, which are supposed to have the sole purpose of generating congressional districts. We not only have the short form, which is intrusive enough, but also the ridiculous 28-page long form.

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/pdf/2010...e_Info_Copy.pdf

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/SQuest05.pdf

America is going to he11 in a handbasket. It started under der Slickmeister, got worse under Dubya and is now headed towards Soviet gulag Russia under the Bamster. God help us all.

[lopburi3]

This is not anything new and has/is used to fight organized crime figures. Normally they do not declare there funds and that is used to get them. This year the reporting has become more detailed with each account required to be listed and a new form is in use. This will be computer read I am sure and unless you are under investigation for something else, or have millions, will probably just join that huge dust bin database until/if your name comes up on the radar. You can download the form and fill out in a few minutes. Keep the mailing receipt with your tax paperwork.

[NanLaew]

I am now another step closer to closing my US-based banking and financial services accounts.

In the early 1980's, as a non-US resident employee of a US-based company, I was able to legally open and maintain a US-domiciled bank account that had no SSN or Tax ID attached. This was handy for my 3-4 annual training and business trips to the head office. I wasn't living there and wasn't earning any money there so why would I need a tax ID?

In the 1990's, whilst working legally in the US as inter-company transferee, I opened another account that was linked to my SSN. Being only a legal alien worker, I had no say in what my tax dollar could be used for (unlike tax-paying US citizens) but I dutifully filed with the IRS each year. The former account was 'invisible' and used for overseas remittances TO the US and domestic cash withdrawals whilst the latter was the one that my paltry salary went into, the IRS knew all about and penalised accordingly.

Then after 2001 came the paranoic 'Patriot Act' and all accounts requiring to have some form of Tax ID by law. I managed to satisfy most of the raised eyebrows when telephone banking operators and online logins were told 'there is no Tax ID associated with this (invisible) account' but after about 14 months, this account mysteriously became linked to my SSN without any written request or notification from the banks or approval from me. Game over.

Now there's a chance that the IRS & Treasury will require banks to divulge the detailed source of overseas remittances to US domestic accounts? I have relocated back to Thailand and one of the prime motivators for leaving the US was more restrictive procedures when doing banking, business, renewing driving licenses, getting visas, working offshore, etc.. The feeling that federal authorities were rooting around in my linen basket grew more insidious. I still have a house and an office in the US, thanks to my 12 years as a 'resident alien' but maybe I just don't need any US bank accounts any more; at least not in my name.

Edited July 18, 2009 by NanLaew

[livinthailandos]

most of you might be older than me so i'll put my 2 cents in. As a american working in thailand its messed up, I pay taxes here and have to pay taxes to the US to just for working over here, on top of that any money I save I then have to pay up again. Someone explain what retards operate at the IRS. After all its a known fact that medicare and social security are trillions of dollars in the red. Its nice to see i'm the one who's going to be paying for Government mistakes for the rest of my life and while the government gets my tax money from working and saving money I won't be entitled to any benefits when I'm older because the system will be long gone and broke long before I can retire.

[raysonet]

This is not anything new and has/is used to fight organized crime figures. Normally they do not declare there funds and that is used to get them. This year the reporting has become more detailed with each account required to be listed and a new form is in use. This will be computer read I am sure and unless you are under investigation for something else, or have millions, will probably just join that huge dust bin database until/if your name comes up on the radar. You can download the form and fill out in a few minutes. Keep the mailing receipt with your tax paperwork.

Yep, this requirement has been around for years. US taxpayer has to list all financial institutions and accounts if the total of all accounts is valued at more than $10,000 (each account and amount every year). Also, US citizens have to do US taxes every year even if one has never actually lived in the US. The US is like no other place on earth. I'd expect a lot more attention by the IRS now that they need all the tax dollars they can get ....you know, with the huge and growing deficit. One day the IRS and US immigration will share databases and you will get busted when you go home for a visit if you haven't fulfilled your citizen obligations.....

OH .. if you want to relinquish your US citizenship the IRS will "value" your estate and tax you on that ...

[taxout]

" . . . if you want to relinquish your US citizenship the IRS will 'value' your estate and tax you on that ..."

Only if you've got pretty considerable wealth or income.

[dkstoney]

most of you might be older than me so i'll put my 2 cents in. As a american working in thailand its messed up, I pay taxes here and have to pay taxes to the US to just for working over here, on top of that any money I save I then have to pay up again. Someone explain what retards operate at the IRS. After all its a known fact that medicare and social security are trillions of dollars in the red. Its nice to see i'm the one who's going to be paying for Government mistakes for the rest of my life and while the government gets my tax money from working and saving money I won't be entitled to any benefits when I'm older because the system will be long gone and broke long before I can retire.

I live in Thailand, so I don't pay taxes in the US. This is due to the CONVENTION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME

[maccaroni man]

most of you might be older than me so i'll put my 2 cents in. As a american working in thailand its messed up, I pay taxes here and have to pay taxes to the US to just for working over here, on top of that any money I save I then have to pay up again. Someone explain what retards operate at the IRS. After all its a known fact that medicare and social security are trillions of dollars in the red. Its nice to see i'm the one who's going to be paying for Government mistakes for the rest of my life and while the government gets my tax money from working and saving money I won't be entitled to any benefits when I'm older because the system will be long gone and broke long before I can retire.

I live in Thailand, so I don't pay taxes in the US. This is due to the

CONVENTION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME

one of the few good things that Clinton did.

[maccaroni man]

most of you might be older than me so i'll put my 2 cents in. As a american working in thailand its messed up, I pay taxes here and have to pay taxes to the US to just for working over here, on top of that any money I save I then have to pay up again. Someone explain what retards operate at the IRS. After all its a known fact that medicare and social security are trillions of dollars in the red. Its nice to see i'm the one who's going to be paying for Government mistakes for the rest of my life and while the government gets my tax money from working and saving money I won't be entitled to any benefits when I'm older because the system will be long gone and broke long before I can retire.

I live in Thailand, so I don't pay taxes in the US. This is due to the CONVENTION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME

One of the few good things Clinton did.

[Mike45]

Try somewhere (not Thailand) that fixed deposits don't have automatic 15% withholding. ehm... HK, ehm... Singapore.

Dakar said " reported the amount in the bank, and my Singapore City Bank had me sign some forms that stated that City Bank does report the money to the US

So I had no real choice in the matter, because if Singapore reported to the US and I did not.... that would not work out too well"

I'm trying to understand how the two of you have had such a different experience with Singapore banks. Do they or don't they report to the US? Or are some of the circumstances different between the two of you?