Thai Gf Parents Want Money Cos We Are "engaged" - We Are Not

[Datsun240Z]

Can somebody explain me, why the parents always need cash or gold in return for their daughter in Thailand? ( Not all )

[raro]

For those who have missed it, here is forum rule #1 again:

1) To respect fellow members.

5 (!) posts removed, one posting holiday dished out and the next contender will earn one as well.

The OP has a genuine question and deserves a genuine answer. Calling him a Troll is out of order.

raro for the moderation team.

[pattaya_girl]

Pay her Parents when and if you get married.

[scorecard]

For goodness sake, try to understand the culture here.

Agree! This is pretty normal. The poster who said 'your living together in their eyes this is married' is right on.

Also realize that 'married' here can have many configurations:

- Thai traditional wedding ceremony without official registration at the lcoal government office.

- Thai traditional wedding ceremony with official registration at the lcoal government office.

- Official registration at the local government office, and perhaps no traditional ceremony or no party

- Just a party.

- Living together.

Also realize that they don't know the customs from your home country and regardless of this point they expect you to observe and respect local practices.

Also realize that the family may privately put your gf under some pretty heavy pressure. And don't think she might cut away from them for you, that's very very unlikely in this culture.

Good luck.

Wedding party actual marriage

[Bobsyouruncle]

Living together, is not dating in my eyes, but then again I'm not 21 anymore. If you have moved in together, then you should show some sort of commitment to the family.

Show them what kind of commitment and in what form?

Surely you don't mean pay them money for their daughter do you?

I just can't believe some of the things I read on this forum!

Jing jing

[Dakhar]

I laughed when I learned about sinsod. We were married for a 2 years and living in bliss in the states, when I found out.

My wife said her mother wanted 2 million baht.......

I spewed my drink on that one.

Needless to say, I didn't pay a penney and my MIL can't stand me, but the feelings I have for the MIL are exactly the same. So we do have that in common.

My advice, run rabbit run, or just laugh like me.

[scorecard]

".....but for now we are seeing if we are compatible..."

Might be all the rage in many western countries but it's not the way things work here in Thailand and it's not about to change.

[venturalaw]

I laughed when I learned about sinsod. We were married for a 2 years and living in bliss in the states, when I found out.

My wife said her mother wanted 2 million baht.......

I spewed my drink on that one.

Needless to say, I didn't pay a penney and my MIL can't stand me, but the feelings I have for the MIL are exactly the same. So we do have that in common.

My advice, run rabbit run, or just laugh like me.

Come to think of it, I laughed too when I first heard about sinsod. For the posters who say 'respect the culture', I can appreciate that. Perhaps I shouldn't have laughed. That being said, it's really all up to the Thai bride and whether she holds her prospective husband in higher esteem than her parents. I for one would never live in a situation where my wife's parents were more important to my wife than me. Of course it goes both ways - my wife is number one to me too. We are happy that way, and others may be happier with the Thai parents able to make demands. To each his own.

[fantuzi]

Can somebody explain me, why the parents always need cash or gold in return for their daughter in Thailand? ( Not all )

There is such a custom here,as well as in Gulf countries(million dinars - any takers?)

If you want to be paid - find woman in India,they pay handsome dowry for their daughters!

[catmac]

troll? so this forum has its resident seen it all, tiresome thought police?

lots of arrogant jerks here...you do not know me or anything about me or my gf...get lost if you have nothing useful to say - nobody is forcing you to comment, otherwise this is a forum for free discussion...thanks to anyone who answers maturely.

And you my friend being the biggest jerk. You asked this forum for advice? Did you search the forum for perhaps a similar or indeed same question? Just because some people think you are trolling there is no need or you as a newbie to brand the whole membership as arrogant jerks. If I had my way you'd be banned from membership.

I think you are accusing him of something he did not write. "Lots of" arrogant jerks is not the same as "the whole membership". Having read some of the fatuous replies that are still here after raro wisely deleted 5 of the worse, I can quite see why kaosoi feels a bit ruffled., and for you to say that he should be banned is, perhaps, a trifle arrogant, wouldn't you say?

Personally, I can't help kaosoi on his particular problem, it's a bit out of my life experience. But he has every right to post the question here, and every right to expect some helpful replies, not a load of abusive claptrap.

[kaosoi]

troll? so this forum has its resident seen it all, tiresome thought police?

lots of arrogant jerks here...you do not know me or anything about me or my gf...get lost if you have nothing useful to say - nobody is forcing you to comment, otherwise this is a forum for free discussion...thanks to anyone who answers maturely.

And you my friend being the biggest jerk. You asked this forum for advice? Did you search the forum for perhaps a similar or indeed same question? Just because some people think you are trolling there is no need or you as a newbie to brand the whole membership as arrogant jerks. If I had my way you'd be banned from membership.

and if you can tell me where i branded the whole membership as arrogant jerks i will pay the 100,000 and gold to you. I posted, and yes, genuinely aked for advice.... checked back an hour or so later and out of about ten replies around half were accusing me of posting a fake post, calling me a troll, asking for me to be banned and offering no advice at all...that is what i referred to. nothing more...happy you do not have your way "my friend"

Edited July 19, 2009 by kaosoi

[kaosoi]

troll? so this forum has its resident seen it all, tiresome thought police?

lots of arrogant jerks here...you do not know me or anything about me or my gf...get lost if you have nothing useful to say - nobody is forcing you to comment, otherwise this is a forum for free discussion...thanks to anyone who answers maturely.

And you my friend being the biggest jerk. You asked this forum for advice? Did you search the forum for perhaps a similar or indeed same question? Just because some people think you are trolling there is no need or you as a newbie to brand the whole membership as arrogant jerks. If I had my way you'd be banned from membership.

I think you are accusing him of something he did not write. "Lots of" arrogant jerks is not the same as "the whole membership". Having read some of the fatuous replies that are still here after raro wisely deleted 5 of the worse, I can quite see why kaosoi feels a bit ruffled., and for you to say that he should be banned is, perhaps, a trifle arrogant, wouldn't you say?

Personally, I can't help kaosoi on his particular problem, it's a bit out of my life experience. But he has every right to post the question here, and every right to expect some helpful replies, not a load of abusive claptrap.

Thanks!

[Birdman]

............................ it's really all up to the Thai bride and whether she holds her prospective husband in higher esteem than her parents. I for one would never live in a situation where my wife's parents were more important to my wife than me. Of course it goes both ways - my wife is number one to me too. We are happy that way, and others may be happier with the Thai parents able to make demands. To each his own.

That's exactly the way it is, also here in Thailand. If a Thai female really loves you and wants therefore honestly share her life with you, Sin sod, parents and all that stuff is not on the table...

[imaneggspurt]

I'd say something to the parents along these lines " if we do decide to get married and make a life together, I'll be more than happy to pay the sinsod, but for now we are seeing if we are compatible". Your gf should also be on your side and telling the parents that this is not a normal thing to ask for a huge amount of money because you are living together. Sounds to me like they want to milk you, but that's just an outside opinion from someone that doesn't know any of the parties involved.

Why say that?

"more than happy to pay the sinsod"

Only fat/ugly/old farang men need to pay sinsot.

The rest of us get love for free!

Thats so funny and reminds me of a young guy i saw crying in walking st, apparantly because his bg had just gone off with a 65 year old punter, and he thought it was love and couldnt believe she could do such a thing, some have a lot to learn about thailand, true love costs nothing,. all the other sorts are negotiable ,. i paid my inlaws nothing ,didnt get asked, its a greed thing in most cases,....... Edited July 19, 2009 by imaneggspurt

[steelepulse]

".....but for now we are seeing if we are compatible..."

Might be all the rage in many western countries but it's not the way things work here in Thailand and it's not about to change.

Well there is a huge cultural difference between monied younger more modern thais and those that aren't the aforementioned. Apparently your refer to the latter while I know of the former.  To each their own .

[bedu]

troll? so this forum has its resident seen it all, tiresome thought police?

lots of arrogant jerks here...you do not know me or anything about me or my gf...get lost if you have nothing useful to say - nobody is forcing you to comment, otherwise this is a forum for free discussion...thanks to anyone who answers maturely.

And you my friend being the biggest jerk. You asked this forum for advice? Did you search the forum for perhaps a similar or indeed same question? Just because some people think you are trolling there is no need or you as a newbie to brand the whole membership as arrogant jerks. If I had my way you'd be banned from membership.

I think the guy just wanted advice and with many people saying he was a troll, well he probably got upset. He did state thanks to anyone who answered sensibly.

As a senior member of the forum, you shoul be experienced at answering or giving advice. The point is he stated some arrogant jerks, not the whole membership.

Banning him from the forum is a knee-jerk reaction, which at the end of the day, stiffles free speech and still doesn't answer his question fully. Please don't attack a newbie, as he is exactly that, new and doesn't know what sinsod is.

Thank you for your time in this matter.

Bedu

[KASABIAN]

It's nothing to do with culture it's called greed. Come across as an easy touch here you won't last long. Park her up and find parents that arnt greedy money grabbing parasites. There not all bad theres good and bad Thai same as Farang.

[getgoin]

The original deal for my wife was 1000 Baht a month for a year. That was 22 years ago and I can not count the amount money that I have given to my wife's father and to her family. Not that I am complaining. I can afford it and my wife's father I consider to be as my own father. He is the grandfather to our 4 children.

It is the custom to give the wife's family a dowry when you get married and not while living together. In their eyes you are already married. What is troubling is the large amount of money they have asked for. Obviously a greedy family who does not have their daughter's well being on their minds. You can negotiate or you can just make an offer. You should offer something to be respectful but only if and when you marry.

Now, when my wife asks for 1000 or 2000 Baht a month for her dad I give him 3000. Sometimes I slip him cash on the side, without her knowing. With family comes responsibilities and the tab is only beginning.

[isanb]

".....but for now we are seeing if we are compatible..."

Might be all the rage in many western countries but it's not the way things work here in Thailand and it's not about to change.

Attitudes are changing also in thailand.

No need to make another sin sod debat.

The OP is asked to pay a sum of money to the GF parents even if they are not

talking marriage yet.

I have my opinion on the issue but i suggest to the OP to ask his GF what she think

about the attitude of her parents.This will give him a good idea of the future of his relationship.

[erikr_]

Ah that funny sin sod stuff again. Hmm

I never paid Sin Sod. My MIL was happy that her daughter had found a caring man that looked after her and her daughter. Does that mean that I did not pay anything? No way, you will always be paying but I have never had an unreasonable request from the Mrs (and she does push back when she feels it is) so I was happy to pay for a fishing net for papa here and insurance premium for the motorbike. And I made sure the family had no debts (20000) when we started our married life but that was my choice and not for display at the wedding as it made sure the family was clear not to borrow so more an insurrance premium for the future.

And you know what? My MIL loves me and takes great care of me when I am there. And I do take care of her as well by taking them out to dinner etc. 3years on and we are still happy

Some maybe rather have 100000 and never see you again

[beerchang]

kaosoi, seriously dude, now is not the time for parents of GF to be asking for money (unless they intentionally want to warn you off). Simply ask GF what she thinks of parents request at this stage in your relationship. If she's not happy with their request and even embarassed by it you need to register that sentiment. IF however she is annoyed at your '<deleted>' (rightly so) reaction and tries going heavy on you giving money and gold to her parents, you might want to think along the 'sick buffalo' lines and maybe take a step back and review this relationship.

Up to you at the end of the day. Sheesh, hard times when 'family', not GF aint on your side 'cause they are rea,l real close and always will be. Hope this helps.

[mpetersen]

Hello,

been living with my Thai gf here in bangkok for a few months although we have dated for over a year. Today went to her parents house because her mother wanted to speak to us. Should point out that she is from a poor family.

They told us today they want 100,000 or 200,000 bhat plus gold because we are now "something".....this was all in Thai..but gf explained it as "kind of engaged".

I quietly thought ...<deleted>?.... we are not engaged and are still at early stages of living together in a full on relationship.

I have read that dowrys still exist here for marriage but has anyone heard of a custom of giving alot of money to the parents just to date the daughter. my gf could not explain it well. Also a little bit flustered because her family has not been especially friendly so far but today were all smiles. hmmm.

Thanks.

If you have any sort of ceremony that looks like engagement or marriage party, you should expect to fork over some money. 100 or 200K for a poor family is very very high for the parents. It's supposed to be a token gesture nowadays, and for the most part, i would consider any more significant dowry to be some funds for the girl to get by once the farang fiance/husband leaves her.

Often, dowry is placed during the ceremony in large amounts (say, 300,000 or more baht), but then mostly taken back by the couple. It's then up to you if you want to put the money in her account or just replace it, especially if you had to borrow it.

[Datsun240Z]

Can somebody explain me, why the parents always need cash or gold in return for their daughter in Thailand? ( Not all )

There is such a custom here,as well as in Gulf countries(million dinars - any takers?)

If you want to be paid - find woman in India,they pay handsome dowry for their daughters!

Yes, I realize it's a custom habit, but what's the reason they need cash or gold? Is this retirement money or something? I can imagine almost every farang, spitting the coffee, when hearing such an anouncement, in the west the mother of the daughters family would be happy she has found a caring man, and never ask money, because she knows they will need it all themselves for their own living maintenance very hardly.

[7by7]

Kaosoi,

while we were in Thailand last April we met my stepson's fiance's parents for the first time and I was told by my wife to make sure that I did not let slip that my stepson and his girlfriend were living together. When I asked why I was told that living together is viewed by most Thais as being married and so her parents would expect the sinsod to be paid now, not next year when the marriage will actually take place.

However, as many have said, the best person to discuss this with is your girlfriend.

[G54]

Consider that many a Thai man and A Thai woman live together happily while they save together for a marriage in the future and none of the men are asked to pay for their 'on loan' daughter. so why should you, or any of us pay a sinsod to parents in similar circumstances???

And when people on here are talking anything above 100K for the whole marriage shebang, they are off their money trees

Edited July 19, 2009 by G54

[Macx]

I normally avoid these sin-sod threads, but you seem to be honestly asking for a considered reply.

Maybe, you've read the dozens of threads about sin-sods here already but somehow couldn't make up your mind.

I can't really judge your situation since you haven't exactly gone into details about your relationship regarding the gf, your feelings about her, or your finances, her education/profession, etc.

So, to help you put things into perspective: I do personally know of one farrang who paid a 200k sin-sod. The in-law parents paid for the wedding, and then used the rest of the money to put their younger daughter though college (50k/yr for 4 yrs). The parents had already used all their savings to put their first daughter (now happily married to a farrang) through college.

If she isn't a bar girl, no Thai parents would want their daughter to be "living unmarried with a farrang" just to test out the water.

Thai men, generally, do not find women who have lived with farrangs (or even Thai men for that matter) to be highly desirable spouse material.

Frankly, I think you know all this already since you've been "dating" her for a year. I'm assuming you've been here all that time, so unless you're really clueless, you MUST suspect something like this was heading your way the moment she moved in.

Sorry, friend, I'm sure you know this isn't the West where you can date for a few years, live together for a few years before ever proposing.

Anyhow, take it easy. If you really love the girl and she loves you, it's all no big deal. It's a very, very small sum for any farrang in the great scheme of things.

Buy her mother a TV/refrigerator/washing machine or something. Show a bit of respect and commitment. Hold the sin-sod money till marriage.

Count yourself lucky, they're not asking 1-2mil

[highlander76]

by living together for a long time in her parents minds you a married ,the sin sot they asking for is far to high you must talk to your girl friend about this

[IanForbes]

As stated several times the custom of payment is for marriage, not dating. However, that being said, there is no law against breaking with tradition. I never paid anything to my wife's parents prior to marriage or after. It was simple - my wife had lived on her own for many years and believed that OUR money be saved for OUR family. Therefore no dowry. She was the only young Thai that I found that shared my beliefs. For me it would have been a deal breaker.

That being said, it's really what your gf's position is in all of this. If she is encouraging you to pay, I would tell her it's not your way and that if that is what she believes is correct, then it's good that you found out now, and have a good life. You don't want her to live with guilt by not following through with what she believes in and thereby complying with her parent's wishes, and you don't want to live with resentment should you cave in and pay. So best to part amicably at this point in time if no resolution.

That pretty well sums it up. It's all between you and your girl friend. If she sticks to YOUR side of the plan then MAYBE she might be a good partner. If she goes with her parents plan of milking a stranger then it should be adios and have a good life. Otherwise it's just another bar girl barter and you get what you pay for. It's better to learn now before going much further and costing more heart ache in the future. The Thai idea of the new farang paying for the ladies whole family is a common one. Many Thai families have learned that they can use their daughters as a bartering tool

In the case of a wealthy Thai families the sin sod is a tradition that you are being welcomed into a family and the sharing goes both ways. Most often the sin sod is just a symbal and it is returned. There are several threads on this topic and it can be found by a simple research.

[richard_smith237]

There are many experts on this forum who seem quite single minded and unable to open themselves to the idiosyncrasies, opinions, traditions and social expectations that don’t fit their own or the circles in which they socialise.

Just because other peoples experience is not the same as another’s it doesn’t make it right or wrong.

There is a whole spectrum of tradition and hoops that couples have to jump through which dramatically differ throughout the ranging demographic groups in Thailand. These differences in education, social status, modernisation, westernisation, culture and tradition all have a strong result on the expectations of a prospective son in law.

So, If you are living with your girlfriend its quite likely that the parents disapprove and would prefer to ‘believe’ that you are married. It’s even possible that your girlfriend, in order to ‘protect the face’ of her parents has told them you will get married and that this money request was nothing more than the sin-sod they expect.

It might help to double check and triple check with your girlfriend about exactly what this money is for and why. Sometimes in theses circumstances an oversimplified answer is given which can be unintentionally misleading and discussion may help you understand the reasons behind their request.

Whether the sin-sod request is fair or right is something which has been discussed many times on this forum and only something you can answer yourself.

But briefly, I don’t know of any of my Thai friends in Bangkok who have not paid sin-sod. Some received it all back, some only half. Of the Western-Thai couples I am friends with about ¾ have paid sin-sod and for those who did, it was returned. The amounts of sin-sod in the Western-Thai relationships matches that of the Thai couples and is in accordance to the status of the lady and their family.

[samran]

The words "car crash" and "slow motion" come to mind....