Thailand 'elite' Program In Tatters

[nakachalet]

rocketfeller

you are so very polite.

problems of this nature should not be left with those orders following managing representatives at all.

next time, when major problem occurs, pls get the name of the director, march up to his office, inform his sec'y that you need to confer with the director.

when she asks, she normally will ask, what is it about? Tell her that it is personal and important that you need to talk to the boss right away.

this is how i normally resolve this sort of upsetting inconveniences. and furthermore, i would never allow those middle exec get in my way to talk to the power source who is ultimately responsible for my slight inconveniences.... lol

and while in his/her office, try to pretend even if you have to, to be as calm, cool and civilized and as CONCISE as you can while delivering your karate punches.... lol

[norwayeagle]

rocketfeller

you are so very polite.

problems of this nature should not be left with those orders following managing representatives at all.

next time, when major problem occurs, pls get the name of the director, march up to his office, inform his sec'y that you need to confer with the director.

when she asks, she normally will ask, what is it about? Tell her that it is personal and important that you need to talk to the boss right away.

this is how i normally resolve this sort of upsetting inconveniences. and furthermore, i would never allow those middle exec get in my way to talk to the power source who is ultimately responsible for my slight inconveniences.... lol

and while in his/her office, try to pretend even if you have to, to be as calm, cool and civilized and as CONCISE as you can while delivering your karate punches.... lol

Rockefeller (t).Is a Noble man,and an "Aristocrat":That he shows (at least me) by his Post. Keep it up Mr R.,,,, I also think there also have been TE Trolls (wannabes) inside here

[gerry1011]

You are making too many assumptions to make your post a sensible one to debate. And what does your venom show everyone?

You actually made some good points but spoilt it with hubris.

TE bashers love the word "hubris" (when they know what it is about, of course).

But it is also noticeable that most of the good points about the TE subject are made by the TE members themselves, while venom, insults, false asumptions, ridiculous statements, etc... are constantly coming from the other side...

[caf]

You are making too many assumptions to make your post a sensible one to debate. And what does your venom show everyone?

You actually made some good points but spoilt it with hubris.

TE bashers love the word "hubris" (when they know what it is about, of course).

But it is also noticeable that most of the good points about the TE subject are made by the TE members themselves, while venom, insults, false asumptions, ridiculous statements, etc... are constantly coming from the other side...

Trolls don't think before they post do they?

But Elite card holders have been caught big time by this scam and are moving on. They've learned to take their losses on the chin.

[caf]

You are making too many assumptions to make your post a sensible one to debate. And what does your venom show everyone?

You actually made some good points but spoilt it with hubris.

TE bashers love the word "hubris" (when they know what it is about, of course).

But it is also noticeable that most of the good points about the TE subject are made by the TE members themselves, while venom, insults, false asumptions, ridiculous statements, etc... are constantly coming from the other side...

Trolls don't think before they post do they?

But Elite card holders have been caught big time by this scam and are moving on. They've learned to take their losses on the chin.

[jfchandler]

Gerry, I was asking a serious, reasonable question, and you choose not to answer it by dismissing it with the "hundreds of times" comment... Well, I've been reading about TE for the past several years here on TV, and I must disagree, the comments from actual members have been few and far between, and the actual working details posted by those who are members have been even rarer...

I am not a TE basher... I even considered purchasing a card some years back when I was preparing to move here... But I found another way to handle my visa... No problem...

I take it from your answer below that you DO have to pay 1900 baht for annuals extensions...which is the normal fee.... How difficult is it to also say... yes...we have to do 90 day reporting...or no...we don't.

Gerry, what kind of 90 day reporting/reports do you have to do under the 5 year visa?

And it does or doesn't require you to do annual extensions of stay priced at 1900 baht per???

You first two questions have been answered hundreds of times already...

I just don't understand why you come again with the "1900b detail" Do you think that someone who pays a million for a card pays attention to 1900b?

[TAWP]

I'll leave up to the people with a background in economics and decent math skills to decide whether or not the card could have succeded.

I do, however, believe it was a part of a Thaksin Grand Plan regarding tourism. He was hel_l bent on getting rid of the backpackers--at least in large numbers. He was trying to entice the upper end tourists. To that end, lots of things needed to change, and he was in the process of changing them.

As he went about setting up his dynasty, he made one crucial mistake. He forgot that he could get ousted.

Now the current gov't has the plan of making it difficult for long-stayers on tourist visa, but no plan to replace them with higher end tourists.

Bit of a problem for all concerned.

A one long full post and you managed to avoid to criticize him one bit. Not biased on bit. Ofcourse the card would have worked if he wasn't ousted...

And then you add the incorrect statement that the current government want to get rid of long-stayers etc, when the pattern was already started during Thaksins time.

[gerry1011]

Gerry, I was asking a serious, reasonable question, and you choose not to answer it by dismissing it with the "hundreds of times" comment... Well, I've been reading about TE for the past several years here on TV, and I must disagree, the comments from actual members have been few and far between, and the actual working details posted by those who are members have been even rarer...

I am not a TE basher... I even considered purchasing a card some years back when I was preparing to move here... But I found another way to handle my visa... No problem...

I take it from your answer below that you DO have to pay 1900 baht for annuals extensions...which is the normal fee.... How difficult is it to also say... yes...we have to do 90 day reporting...or no...we don't.

Gerry, what kind of 90 day reporting/reports do you have to do under the 5 year visa?

And it does or doesn't require you to do annual extensions of stay priced at 1900 baht per???

You first two questions have been answered hundreds of times already...

I just don't understand why you come again with the "1900b detail" Do you think that someone who pays a million for a card pays attention to 1900b?

The question is not "do the TE members have to report and pay 1900b every 3 months or not". Everybody knows the answer.

The point in my comment was: Is 1900b relevant to the TE members or not? Of course not. And if some members find it relevant, they should not have joined this program for sure.

So, I will answer your question: The TE members can stay in the country for long periods of time (4 months, 6 months, 3 years, 9 years... till they die) without having to leave the country (no visa run needed). However, they need to go to put a stamp every three months, and YES... this costs 1900b. This was not difficult to say, I just lost a bit of time answering your question, while you obviously knew the answer... as everybody else. And now, following my answer to you, we will certainly read (again and again) "yes, as long as the government does not do this, do that, cancel this and that, bla bla bla..., and all the usual asumptions that never came true" (which is part of the fun of this thread I must admit ).

All the members I met are happy with TE. But I propably never met any "perk seekers", the ones who use their privileges as much as possible.

Most of the members are using very few free perks.

It is clear that the TE perks should be reduced. A minority of members use their privileges in such a way that the program is not sustainable. These are mainly the free golf and free spa privileges.

It is certainly very nice to use these privileges as much as possible, but TE should restrict their use to a more reasonable offer (This phrase will certainly launch a new round of comments )

One free golf and one free spa everyday of the year, on top of the other privileges, is too much of a nice deal for only one million. This is of course not sustainable.

It is clear that the number of positive comments about TE, coming mostly from the members themselves, is outnumbered by countless silly posts against the program. This is quite normal, since a minority of people are ready to pay for this kind of services. But you still might want to spend a bit of time searching for past posts on this forum about TE. You will find several very interesting, honest and accurate comments from TE members, and the reasons why they are happy with the services provided. However, you might have to spend even more time separating these comments from the usual rubbish coming from the TE bashers...

[jfchandler]

It seems you're looking to have an argument with someone over TE....

I'm not looking for any argument on the topic...thanks very much...

I asked a question I didn't know the clear answer to...and finally you answered it...

Enough said...

[gerry1011]

It seems you're looking to have an argument with someone over TE....

I'm not looking for any argument on the topic...thanks very much...

I asked a question I didn't know the clear answer to...and finally you answered it...

Enough said...

It looks indeed that members of this forum, who love so much to spit on TE and its members, like it better when there is nobody attempting to argue with them... It is easier, of course.

[humbug]

after reading one of the biggest sponsors of this website sunbeltasia produce a letter a few months back stating that this same anti-taksin government has endorsed by cabinet resolution the five year visa to carry on regardeless of the programme dying or not!!which has now been published in the royal gazzette

why hasnt this been brought to our attention rather than these pathetic anti taksin articles.

You raise a very important point.

Here is the Sunbelt posting:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Year-Special-Visa-t239102.html

However there is no update to advise whether the regulation was subsequently announced in the Royal Gazette, and that the five year visas are now being renewed. Did u see the Royal Gazette announcement?

no update from sunbelt asia,if i read correctly the posts at that time,many were waiting for their 5 year visa's to be continued pending the announcment in the royal gazette,since now on this thread members are stating that they have now renewed their 5 year visa then i can only presume without any proof that the royal gazette has now published this law.

to all others i have replied to this thread as i feel in these economic times it is very normal for governments to be cutting back many expenses,especially in thailand where it seems the coffers are empty and they need to borrow to pay for their top heavy beuracracy,this programme cannot be any different,they will obviously look at ways to keep costs down to a bare minimum while keeping it going,so i just have no idea why so many members are using this thread as a pathetic tyrade against past governmernts when in reality what is happening to this programme is happening the worldover ie cutbacks

[gerry1011]

after reading one of the biggest sponsors of this website sunbeltasia produce a letter a few months back stating that this same anti-taksin government has endorsed by cabinet resolution the five year visa to carry on regardeless of the programme dying or not!!which has now been published in the royal gazzette

why hasnt this been brought to our attention rather than these pathetic anti taksin articles.

You raise a very important point.

Here is the Sunbelt posting:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Year-Special-Visa-t239102.html

However there is no update to advise whether the regulation was subsequently announced in the Royal Gazette, and that the five year visas are now being renewed. Did u see the Royal Gazette announcement?

no update from sunbelt asia,if i read correctly the posts at that time,many were waiting for their 5 year visa's to be continued pending the announcment in the royal gazette,since now on this thread members are stating that they have now renewed their 5 year visa then i can only presume without any proof that the royal gazette has now published this law.

to all others i have replied to this thread as i feel in these economic times it is very normal for governments to be cutting back many expenses,especially in thailand where it seems the coffers are empty and they need to borrow to pay for their top heavy beuracracy,this programme cannot be any different,they will obviously look at ways to keep costs down to a bare minimum while keeping it going,so i just have no idea why so many members are using this thread as a pathetic tyrade against past governmernts when in reality what is happening to this programme is happening the worldover ie cutbacks

Hello Humbug.

The renewal of the visa is not a problem anymore, the proof being in my passport, as well as many others I guess.

I agree with you that the expenses of TE should be brought down. This is a necessity not only because of the present economic situation, but also because they offered too many benefits to members, not thinking that some of them would use these benefits in an unreasonable way.

Asian golfers seem to be a big part of the problem. They can easily fly down to Thailand and play in many golf clubs for the same price they would pay for only one or two clubs in their country. Without blaming them, other members, who permanently stay in Thailand and fully use their privileges, play golf or go to the spa every day, which is now a problem for the sustainability of the program.

However, the same people also contribute to the Thai economy by spending money elsewhere. If I remember well, the benefit from TE members to the country was evaluated at over three billions by the Chulalongkorn university study. So, the question for the government is to only look at the TE results or try to see the bigger picture, which is the interest of the country.

In any case, and in my personal opinion, cutting down some benefits would be in the interest of everyone in the long term (including myself as a member).

Among the members of TE there are numerous people of "high quality". Quality should not only be linked to money, but also knowlege and experience.

In my opinion, a rich businessman can be a quality person, the same as an aristocrat, a recognized scientist, an international artist or a high level sport player.

TE should focus on capitalizing on the quality of the members rather than only the members' fee. TE should be the link between the foreign artist and the local art world, between the foreign businessman and the local business world, etc... in order to create new opportunities for the local community.

Imagine Zidane playing a TE Charity football match with Thai kids... This would be worth a lot. In this case, even if Zidane was invited to be member for free, the country would already gain (This is only an example. Zidane has never been invited to join TE for free (before some here start to bark again))

If TE was focusing in "creating value" with the members, rather than only get a lousy million out of them, it would be much better.

But to extract value for the country, TE would need to focus on quality members, rather than perk seekers, and blend these quality members into the Thai elite.

By doing this, all sides can gain a lot more.

The aim of TE and the country should be to make real quality people stay more in the country and act as an intermediary to create new opportunies for investment, cooperation, artistic and sport events, or anything of some interest to the members and the country.

TE should refocus on more valuable goals than those it had till now. The first step should be to reduce the free benefits and only concentrate on the "easiness of life" for the members (the ones who are willing to pay for it, or the ones invited to be members). TE might also consider to set new standards for potential members.

[torrenova]

If I paid Bt1,000,000 for something which was an ongoing service and which was transferable for a 5% (or perhaps 10%) fee, then I reckon I'd be pretty upset if a lot of the main benefits had been withdrawn or curtailed. My argument would not be that I had already received a perceived Bt1m value which fully justified my decision to join but rather just how much I would have been prepared to pay for the current and likely future decreasing benefits. Add in that the secondary market for TE cards must be fairly thin and I find the justification of the original fee in light of the reductions in benefits a somewhat poor defence from those who have paid to join.

Another example is the calculation of the value already received. Take a trip to the airport for example. I can go from the centre of Bangkok in a taxi for about Bt300/400. I could also go in a BMW 7 series for perhaps Bt5000. Now if the trip was free to me, I would obviously choose the BMW but I would not accrue the "saving" at Bt5000-400 = Bt4600. The same applies, though less so, to golf. If it was free, then I may play far more than were it expensive but that does not mean I can count the non paid green fees as a saving.

Now you could transfer the card for 30 years I believe and thus, at say 10% pa, you could justify any saving as a 30 year annuity purchased for the secondary fee. Given the fact that just some 5 or so years into the program it is in tatters, then the resale fees must be very low, thus pushing up the actual cost to primary holders and making the card even harder to justify. That some people say it is chicken feed, then I don't believe them. Why ? because to get to a position where Bt1m is an inconsequential amount of money means you did not spend your previous time throwing away $30,000 here and there.

[midas]

That some people say it is chicken feed, then I don't believe them. Why ? because to get to a position where Bt1m is an inconsequential amount of money means you did not spend your previous time throwing away $30,000 here and there.

Spot on

[scorecard]

Why not apply to taxsin for a refund.

I'm sure m2c can give you a recent address, and since m2c is so supportive of taxsin maybe he might advance the refund on behalf of his darling.

[gerry1011]

If I paid Bt1,000,000 for something which was an ongoing service and which was transferable for a 5% (or perhaps 10%) fee, then I reckon I'd be pretty upset if a lot of the main benefits had been withdrawn or curtailed. My argument would not be that I had already received a perceived Bt1m value which fully justified my decision to join but rather just how much I would have been prepared to pay for the current and likely future decreasing benefits. Add in that the secondary market for TE cards must be fairly thin and I find the justification of the original fee in light of the reductions in benefits a somewhat poor defence from those who have paid to join.

Another example is the calculation of the value already received. Take a trip to the airport for example. I can go from the centre of Bangkok in a taxi for about Bt300/400. I could also go in a BMW 7 series for perhaps Bt5000. Now if the trip was free to me, I would obviously choose the BMW but I would not accrue the "saving" at Bt5000-400 = Bt4600. The same applies, though less so, to golf. If it was free, then I may play far more than were it expensive but that does not mean I can count the non paid green fees as a saving.

Now you could transfer the card for 30 years I believe and thus, at say 10% pa, you could justify any saving as a 30 year annuity purchased for the secondary fee. Given the fact that just some 5 or so years into the program it is in tatters, then the resale fees must be very low, thus pushing up the actual cost to primary holders and making the card even harder to justify. That some people say it is chicken feed, then I don't believe them. Why ? because to get to a position where Bt1m is an inconsequential amount of money means you did not spend your previous time throwing away $30,000 here and there.

Bt1m is chicken feed for many people on this planet, believe it or not. You most probably never met any, but be sure that those people do not torture themselves with calculations like yours.

[alyx]

Bt1m is chicken feed for many people on this planet, believe it or not. You most probably never met any, but be sure that those people do not torture themselves with calculations like yours.

Or simply are fatalist enough to consider that, what has been spent, has been spent (it doesn't mean that one does not care about it)

[bobright]

Bt1m is chicken feed for many people on this planet, believe it or not. You most probably never met any, but be sure that those people do not torture themselves with calculations like yours.

Or simply are fatalist enough to consider that, what has been spent, has been spent (it doesn't mean that one does not care about it)

.....elitism for sale at baht 1million only????? can we buy a dozen of those????? is it still on sale???????? where???????? where?????? where??? when???? when??????? when??????? pray tell........

[bobright]

That some people say it is chicken feed, then I don't believe them. Why ? because to get to a position where Bt1m is an inconsequential amount of money means you did not spend your previous time throwing away $30,000 here and there.

Spot on

...ohhhh....! if baht1 million can buy an elite status in thailand, how much is thailand???????? when does the grand sale begin>>>>>anyone??????????

N.B.: R.S.V.P. (PLEASE TREAT THIS MESSAGE WITH GREATEST URGENTCY)

Edited August 12, 2009 by bobright

[mrtoad]

Bt1m is chicken feed for many people on this planet, believe it or not. You most probably never met any, but be sure that those people do not torture themselves with calculations like yours.

It may be chicken feed, but the principal of selling something, and then changing it drastically is more about a point of principal. To be honest though any real "elite" person wouldn't even bother with this card.

[Abrak]

That some people say it is chicken feed, then I don't believe them. Why ? because to get to a position where Bt1m is an inconsequential amount of money means you did not spend your previous time throwing away $30,000 here and there.

Spot on

Oh really? Try explaining that theory to Paris Hilton or to any owner of a reasonable yacht - say an Azimut 62. The day you first step on board you have probably lost US$250,000.

[FD333]

Most long-termers would not have touched the idea with a barge pole with the exception of being able to buy a rai of land. The whole Thaksin inspired idea was , if nothing else, a wretched, tasteless marketing idea. It is the kind of 'luxury caste' idea that Hi-So Thais would eat up, not by and large foreigners. However this was Thaksin's pet project and no-body at the time had the balls/gumption/death wish to tell him otherwise.

Thaksin and lackey's simply thought that the Thai Hi-So mentality to entitlement transfered into the international arena. It apparently had not occured to them that on a global level, most people who have 'succeeded' in life enjoy the fact they can spend money lavishly, that it's all a little nouveau chasing after discounts. The take up rate proved this.

But, I love the next part of the "Elite" debacle. Milking a limited number of gullible foreigners was one thing but how 'the funds' got re-circulated out the back door really is amusing. Golf courses getting baht 20 million up front? Elite then paying the golf courses baht 4,600 a round ( I wonder, is Alpine Golf Couses on the list perchance?)

Running costs recently chopped down to baht 200,000,000?

Thammasart University Economic Service Centre ( there's a mouthful) then apparently consulted with the local bar-beer to conclude, no business, raise the price! Baht 1.8 million!

However if we are talking about how many dumb-arse foreigners did sign up...

...how many people have to come on here with the 'impressive' comment 1 million baht is chicken feed? It is, by and large an anonymous forum so whats the point is trying to impress with who's got the biggest wallet? When you forget your gold Rolex Daytona at the golf club (as a naff yet pricey example) do you call the clubhouse upon a panic , or forget it and go to Paragon the next day to buy another? In real world terms 1 million baht is a considerable sum, and as someone rightfully posted noboby got rich thinking it wasn't. So please spare us and put your Louis Vuiton murses (man-purse) back in your pants.

...as for explaining that to Paris Hilton, how in Gods name is this supposed to relate to anything? And if you are attempting to 'talk' luxury drop the Azimut 62' routine ( thats little more than a dayboat)...she wouldn't be seen on anything smaller than a Benetti.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Elite deserves a decent burial asap, and the punters should be repaid.

[Scott]

It would be very interesting to know something about the people who bought the card. I have known a few quite wealthy individuals and by and large, they knew a good deal when they saw one--and this wasn't a good deal. They also weren't enamoured with places like Thailand, in general. All the things most of us get cheaply here, they can get anywhere, anytime they want.

I can only figure that perhaps some business people who need the convenience of the visa for business purposes etc. and have money to spare would be buying it. Also some of the new rich who are just silly with money.

[scorecard]

Most long-termers would not have touched the idea with a barge pole with the exception of being able to buy a rai of land. The whole Thaksin inspired idea was , if nothing else, a wretched, tasteless marketing idea. It is the kind of 'luxury caste' idea that Hi-So Thais would eat up, not by and large foreigners. However this was Thaksin's pet project and no-body at the time had the balls/gumption/death wish to tell him otherwise.

Thaksin and lackey's simply thought that the Thai Hi-So mentality to entitlement transfered into the international arena. It apparently had not occured to them that on a global level, most people who have 'succeeded' in life enjoy the fact they can spend money lavishly, that it's all a little nouveau chasing after discounts. The take up rate proved this.

But, I love the next part of the "Elite" debacle. Milking a limited number of gullible foreigners was one thing but how 'the funds' got re-circulated out the back door really is amusing. Golf courses getting baht 20 million up front? Elite then paying the golf courses baht 4,600 a round ( I wonder, is Alpine Golf Couses on the list perchance?)

Running costs recently chopped down to baht 200,000,000?

Quote from above: "...It is the kind of 'luxury caste' idea that Hi-So Thais would eat up, not by and large foreigners. However this was Thaksin's pet project and no-body at the time had the balls/gumption/death wish to tell him otherwise. ..."

Sorry I totally disagree with your comment about ".... Hi-so Thais would eat up...". I've been in Thailand more than two decades and I've had lots of contact with every level of Thai society. I can promise you that 99% of Hi-So Thais have no desire whatever to mix with Hi-So westerners.

I do agree with your comment "....Thaksin's pet project and no-body at the time had the balls/gumption/death wish to tell him otherwise. ...".

Lastly, I don't agree with the numerous comments bashing people who bought the card. It's their business totally.

Thammasart University Economic Service Centre ( there's a mouthful) then apparently consulted with the local bar-beer to conclude, no business, raise the price! Baht 1.8 million!

However if we are talking about how many dumb-arse foreigners did sign up...

...how many people have to come on here with the 'impressive' comment 1 million baht is chicken feed? It is, by and large an anonymous forum so whats the point is trying to impress with who's got the biggest wallet? When you forget your gold Rolex Daytona at the golf club (as a naff yet pricey example) do you call the clubhouse upon a panic , or forget it and go to Paragon the next day to buy another? In real world terms 1 million baht is a considerable sum, and as someone rightfully posted noboby got rich thinking it wasn't. So please spare us and put your Louis Vuiton murses (man-purse) back in your pants.

...as for explaining that to Paris Hilton, how in Gods name is this supposed to relate to anything? And if you are attempting to 'talk' luxury drop the Azimut 62' routine ( thats little more than a dayboat)...she wouldn't be seen on anything smaller than a Benetti.

[mrtoad]

Elite deserves a decent burial asap, and the punters should be repaid.

Agreed 100% with that.

[Abrak]

Elite deserves a decent burial asap, and the punters should be repaid.

Agreed 100% with that.

As one of the punters of TE, I can sympathize although not necessarily agree it should be buried. I do not see why I should be repaid.

[thaijasmine]

Elite deserves a decent burial asap, and the punters should be repaid.

Agreed 100% with that.

As one of the punters of TE, I can sympathize although not necessarily agree it should be buried. I do not see why I should be repaid.

What a very strange perspective you have

Because if you were repaid..........and you still dont need the money for example you give it to the many

homeless kids around Klongtoey ? better than it being in the pockets of thai elite crooks ?

[midas]

That some people say it is chicken feed, then I don't believe them. Why ? because to get to a position where Bt1m is an inconsequential amount of money means you did not spend your previous time throwing away $30,000 here and there.

Spot on

Oh really? Try explaining that theory to Paris Hilton or to any owner of a reasonable yacht - say an Azimut 62. The day you first step on board you have probably lost US$250,000.

rather weak analogy .....

I interpreted the " throwing away $30,000 here and there " as having the ability to recognise when you being ripped off or not

If you want to buy an Azimut 62 or say a new Bentley - its accepted that it immediately loses value once it leaves the showroom but you still own the tangible asset

that you chose for your personal pleasure.

Not the same as paying 1 million upfront for a piece of plastic

Edited August 14, 2009 by midas

[gerry1011]

That some people say it is chicken feed, then I don't believe them. Why ? because to get to a position where Bt1m is an inconsequential amount of money means you did not spend your previous time throwing away $30,000 here and there.

Spot on

Oh really? Try explaining that theory to Paris Hilton or to any owner of a reasonable yacht - say an Azimut 62. The day you first step on board you have probably lost US$250,000.

I agree that Azimut 62 is a reasonable boat which you might want to keep in Thailand (and loose money with) (and make people jealous) (but many friends happy).

Such a boat is nice to go at sea with friends and have an ice cream, but it would not impress many people in Europe (apart from the Thai expats who go on holiday there, of course). Azimut is like the "Lexus of the sea". A nice enjoyable toy, but not top of the line yet. The pity is that harbours in Thailand are really boring places, created as "secluded luxury enclaves", which is not funny at all (in my opinion).

Going back to the main subject, if someone buys such a reasonable boat (for around 85 million), it is asumed that he is not serious about the money it will cost him to enjoy it, which is several millions a year (depending on how many ice creams' trips he makes). To own a boat is reaaaally not an interesting deal, everybody knows that. But then, how comes so many people still buy boats? Just because they can afford it !

If you add a TE card to only the costs of such a boat, the TE card fee is really negligible and probably not worth speaking about. This is why some members would not miss the occasion to buy a TE card. It is cheap and gives a nice visa and some comfort for long stays. A great product