Long-time Farang Residents And Their Thai Language Vacancy

[barky]

Maybe they just really don't like Thais and don't really want to associate with them. And if that is the case, that's their business not anyone elses.

Edited July 28, 2009 by barky

[Jingthing]

Living in Pattaya, I find I don't really need to learn Thai. Learning Thai is hard and there are other things I would rather spend my time with. If I lived upcountry, I think I would be much more motivated. Another reason I don't bother is because my visa status offers no path towards permanent residency. I don't want the hearthache of spending so much time and effort to become fluent in Thai (which I think may just be near impossible at an older age) and then find myself out of Thailand with the only benefit being able to communicate better with Thai waiters at US Thai restaurants. I make no apologies. I pay a price for not learning Thai but I would also pay a price for learning it. This is our CHOICE. Respect it. You are not superior or inferior for making the choice to make the effort.

[Theyreallrubbish]

I'll add my experience to the mix.

When I first came I was working as a doctor in a remote village and only the other doctors in the village clinic spoke English so I had to learn Thai and did so and could speak, read and write quite well.

I then moved to Bangkok and fell into a job working for the highest of the "hi-so" families and socialising with their children. This meant that my entire life was now in English despite the fact that I could go several days without speaking to anyone who wasn't Thai. The children of the rich in particular had been sent abroad at age 7 and come back at 25 and so actually had English as their first language. Most of the models and pop stars who hung around in our social group were look krueng and so also had English as a first language. My company took care of everything in my life with secretaries and other staff to arrange everything. I never even changed a light bulb in my house for years as the secretary would arrange company staff to go do it while I was at work.

My Thai completely deteriorated over those years and my ability to write disappeared. In my defense I was in an extremely demanding job with limited free time and so additional language studies just didn't seem to be the best use of the free time I did have

I've now dropped out of the rat race and moved out of Bangkok and now spend more time with non-English speaking Thais and my Thai is beginning to come back, but I can tell I will need to go back and hit the books again to get it anywhere near where it was in my first year here.

So I sympathise with those whose Thai skills are limited as its normal to build a social and work group where you are comfortable, which means English language, which then leads to a reduced need to learn the language which leads on to continuing to build an English speaking social group.

Thai language for most is a hobby rather than a necessity, and as such it has to compete with all the other possible uses of your free time, and the benefit of learning Thai really isn't that high if you have an English speaking Thai social group already established.

[Petbon]

"Unless such individuals have lived their lives here completely surrounded in Farang circles, how is it that these jokers never have absorbed the language? We're talking about good Farang residents with wife, children, home, business, etc. I would believe after 7-8 years or even 20 years something would have rubbed off, yes? Comprehending the written word might be one thing, but lack of communicating in everyday verbal manner.......what's wrong with these people? Bladdy lazy? Stubborn? Have a bee under their bonnet as it comes to a subliminal superiority in their nature? I've known many long-time Farang residents that seem to belong to this category. I'm sure you might as well.....what's the pyschology behind them? "

IMO there are many reasons. My mother has been in NZ for 61 yrs and speaks very little English due to never had the time to learn it, being sole breadwinner for a family of 7 in a foreign land and didn't need much of it anyway.

I, on the other hand, have lost the limited amount of Chinese I had, due to it being such a struggle to master reasonable precision in English which was essential to do what I wanted in life. English is very easy and versatile at a conversational level, yet rich at a complex level.

My son, who has lived in Bangkok for a decade, speaks Thai reasonably fluently and attempts to read/write Thai also. But I've tried assiduously to learn a few phrases as I'll be visiting Bangkok next month, and find it so difficult to remember much!

I agree that for some there is an attitude of superiority e.g. a diplomat in Thailand, married to a local, referred to it as "jabber", and never bothered.

Circumstances, motivation and capacity for languages (like maths/music/logic aptitude) have something to do with it also.

[kurnell]

I struggle with Thai as I am poor with languages. Tried Spanish bit failed.

Reckon I am in the group of overpaid expats that loiter in farang only circles, with Thai staff that speak fluent English and I love it. I buy what I want, say what I want and do what I want cos I have money. Is there a Thai word for my behaviour?

[mauGR1]

I have a question for the passionate linguists here:Few years ago,my brother was having a Chinese language course at University.He didn't attend too long,anyway,he was told by his teacher that to speak and understand tonal languages,we are supposed to use a part of the brain which is not very much used otherwise.Can anyone confirm or dismiss this theory?

[Birdman]

Quote "I struggle with Thai as I am poor with languages. Tried Spanish bit failed.

Reckon I am in the group of overpaid expats that loiter in farang only circles, with Thai staff that speak fluent English and I love it. I buy what I want, say what I want and do what I want cos I have money. Is there a Thai word for my behaviour?"

คนคุยโม้

Edited July 28, 2009 by Birdman

[trainman34014]

may that deceased american guy in pattaya rest in peace.

and may his wife and kid forever remember this kind old man who contributed in every which way including giving his own life, to help at least one thai family and its members to a life that otherwise might be unknown to them....

does the gent has a name to remember by pls?

Well said Sir.

As a very new member (minutes in fact) I have read all this thread with interest but fail to see what all the fuss is about. I have only been here for 19 months and I have learned a few words and one or two sentences but I do have trouble with understanding what Thai's are saying to me so far. Luckily I have my beautiful Thai wife to translate and I can't say I have found the locals irritated by the fact that I have not learned much of their lingo yet.

Back in the UK there are thousands upon thousands of immigrants who have been there for decades and have never bothered to learn my mother tongue. Do I really care? Well No actually. They have their own life and very often very successful buisness's which they run very well. Of course; they must need help with translation from time to time as I do here but so what?

Live and let live. If people don't want to learn another language that's up to the individual.

[zzaa09]

I get by with Thai, but am trying to speak English in the house as I want my kids to speak english.

I think what is equally worrying as Foreigners not speaking Thai is the number of Thais who can not speak a word of english. After spending primary, secondary and then university having english lessons. There must be a better system for Thais to learn to English and English speakers to learn Thai than the ones that exist.

Personal immersion is the definitive manner in which to learn a language {as it is spoken by the locals}. Formal education stunts the growth of learning said language......uptight and institutional, by it's very nature.

[bangla]

Formal education stunts the growth of learning said language......uptight and institutional, by it's very nature.

i don't agree with that.

it teaches you the basics and grammar n stuff.

if you learn a language by only listening to how people speak then you'll never learn the language properly.

and natives tend to speak in a kind of children's talk to foreigners, using only easy words and bad grammar.

[zzaa09]

Formal education stunts the growth of learning said language......uptight and institutional, by it's very nature.

i don't agree with that.

it teaches you the basics and grammar n stuff.

if you learn a language by only listening to how people speak then you'll never learn the language properly.

and natives tend to speak in a kind of children's talk to foreigners, using only easy words and bad grammar.

Generally speaking {regarding languages at large}, everyday linguistics is proper form.

[Geekfreaklover]

I get by with Thai, but am trying to speak English in the house as I want my kids to speak english.

I think what is equally worrying as Foreigners not speaking Thai is the number of Thais who can not speak a word of english. After spending primary, secondary and then university having english lessons. There must be a better system for Thais to learn to English and English speakers to learn Thai than the ones that exist.

Personal immersion is the definitive manner in which to learn a language {as it is spoken by the locals}. Formal education stunts the growth of learning said language......uptight and institutional, by it's very nature.

I agree that personal immersion is important. However, having taught English I find that bilingual lessons (which is discouraged and not even permitted in some schools) is the way forward. This way you can cover grammar, which can only really be covered in a classroom. Once they have the basics then immersion into a society where English is spoken is the natural way forward.

The same works for Foreigners learning Thai. Cover the basics with a teacher who is fluent in Thai and English and then use the language with the locals.

Re another post; I don't agree that Thais dumb down there language for foreigners to the extent that foreigners dumb down their English for Thais. - 'Me go bar now you wait me here et etc.'

I would rather Farangs speak correct English or Thai. Not a lame hybrid of the two languages which I hear all the time and find anoying for some reason.

[zzaa09]

I get by with Thai, but am trying to speak English in the house as I want my kids to speak english.

I think what is equally worrying as Foreigners not speaking Thai is the number of Thais who can not speak a word of english. After spending primary, secondary and then university having english lessons. There must be a better system for Thais to learn to English and English speakers to learn Thai than the ones that exist.

Personal immersion is the definitive manner in which to learn a language {as it is spoken by the locals}. Formal education stunts the growth of learning said language......uptight and institutional, by it's very nature.

I agree that personal immersion is important. However, having taught English I find that bilingual lessons (which is discouraged and not even permitted in some schools) is the way forward. This way you can cover grammar, which can only really be covered in a classroom. Once they have the basics then immersion into a society where English is spoken is the natural way forward.

The same works for Foreigners learning Thai. Cover the basics with a teacher who is fluent in Thai and English and then use the language with the locals.

Re another post; I don't agree that Thais dumb down there language for foreigners to the extent that foreigners dumb down their English for Thais. - 'Me go bar now you wait me here et etc.'

I would rather Farangs speak correct English or Thai. Not a lame hybrid of the two languages which I hear all the time and find anoying for some reason.

I've never found Thais directing such 'childish' approach to me either, especially if they know that you fully comprehend.

[nakachalet]

posttenebraslux

you are very rare and gifted exceedingly. thailand is fortunate to have you for so many years.

we love thailand too and very much so indeed.

in behalf of the much less fortunate thai people, we want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts.

i'll pm you with my address, should you ever come this direction, pls stop by, if you care to; and it will be an honor to have you and your loved ones with us during your sojour.

[nakachalet]

I struggle with Thai as I am poor with languages. Tried Spanish bit failed.

Reckon I am in the group of overpaid expats that loiter in farang only circles, with Thai staff that speak fluent English and I love it.

I buy what I want, say what I want and do what I want cos I have money.

Is there a Thai word for my behaviour?

yes, there seem to be a perfect phase for such universal behaviors befitting such life style as well.... lol

it is aptly termed.... farang key nok, hork bai, song sa luoeng

translation into simplified english?

farang--westerners

key nok--airborne creatures' manure

hork bai--six pieces

song sa luoeng--for the price of two quarters (thai monetary unit--25 satungs equal one sa-luoeng, 4 sa-luoeng equal 1 baht)

that is a comical ancient saying, not a very flattery phrase, i am afraid. it might not be even remotely applicable in any expat real life.... lol

however, for the self description you expressed above, this thai phrase appears to be very closely equivalent indeed.... lol

cheers....

[DP25]

Quote "I struggle with Thai as I am poor with languages. Tried Spanish bit failed.

Reckon I am in the group of overpaid expats that loiter in farang only circles, with Thai staff that speak fluent English and I love it. I buy what I want, say what I want and do what I want cos I have money. Is there a Thai word for my behaviour?"

คนคุยโม้

[nakachalet]

birdman and dp25

your excellent thai expression which phonetically sounded like--KON-KUI-MOOR, is that correct?

is it something like what the pattaya expat called--KON-KEY-MOOR?.... lol

well, sorry, can not think of a better equivalence at the moment.... lol

[ihunnieibee]

Just think of the thousands of Chinese immigrants in Chinatown NYC...most of them can't speak a word of english, and they have been there for over 40 YEARS!!

I think that it is kinda sad but in reality, you can't make anyone do anything. Do what you want..

I get frustrated when I try to speak thai tho =(

I try to ask my boyfriend what something means..and he just looks at me..so clueless...he never gets what I'm saying...so it makes me not want to say anything at all....

[nakachalet]

ihunnieibee

the elderly chinese immigrants of several decades ago, who came to nyc to start a new life of their own, might appear to not able to speak a word of english, but in reality they rather prefered not to converse in english--just like many have stated in thaivisa that there was no need for them to speak in another language as far as they are concerned....

how do i know? i was there talking to many of them in cantonese, putungwha.... laughing along with them when they were trying to relate funny and pleasant encounters with 'gwai-low' (farangs) who did not appear to understand what the elderly chinese were saying in english.... lol

just because someone does not speak english with us, that does not necessarily mean that they can not speak english-- MAI COW-JAI KRUB, KOR-TOOD KRUB.... lol

[simcity]

Been here for 11 years, my Thai is basic, number (money), taxi (direction), market shopping.

I am not interested to learn normal everyday conversation.

Like to keep to myself, and the few friends I have speak English!

At time bit difficult, like to organize tradesman or aircond cleaning, but I have good people around who do that for me.

[nakachalet]

simcity

my southern offices are paying around 450 bath per detail cleaning and around 250 baht for a quickie.

wonder what do you charge your long term repeat customers in your neck of the wood?

yes, agree with you, good local helpers are extremely difficult to find, especially those in the southern areas, every male or female seems to have inherited some acrage of rubber plantation--therefore they do not feel the urgent need to make a living like citizen from other regions.

this major difference, among several others, between the northern thais and the southern thais becomes very obvious to those of us who travel from east to west and north to south in search of each own utopia.... lol

imho, the majority of the people in the south are less likely to 'cheat' you. on the contrary, many are willing and are happy to buy you a beer or two, instead of the other way around. yes, it happened to me several times. but then these people might already know that i do not drink beer.... lol

[onnut]

I have lived here 5 years and cannot really speak Thai. I would love to speak the lingo but it is not happening. I learnt Danish after living in Denmark for a few years, I was fluent in spoken written and reading so that a few Danes I met did not realise I was not a dane. I am English and I do not think that has got anything to do with not learning Thai. I have tried teachers who just could not teach, it was useless and in five weeks I learnt how to count to 10 everytime I repeated a sentence to her she changed it. my staff do never try to correct me when I attempt Thai with them and funnily as well the same with my Thai wife.

when I spoke Danish and got the Grammar or a word wrong the danes would tell me and help me, in Thailand you say something just a little wrong or with the wrong tone, the Thais do not have a clue or have it in them to try to understand let alone correct you. so I am sorry to say, I think I have given up on learning it. it is a hard language to learn and those who do not speak it I do not think are idiots.

also I think I would rather not understand what some Thais say about us when we are in earshot because they know we cant understand them.

[bkkjames]

I believe this is more common than not amongst 'old hands'. Then there are the numerous examples that might dispell this OP, as a handful do quite well. Unless such individuals have lived their lives here completely surrounded in Farang circles, how is it that these jokers never have absorbed the language? We're talking about good Farang residents with wife, children, home, business, etc. I would believe after 7-8 years or even 20 years something would have rubbed off, yes? Comprehending the written word might be one thing, but lack of communicating in everyday verbal manner.......what's wrong with these people? Bladdy lazy? Stubborn? Have a bee under their bonnet as it comes to a subliminal superiority in their nature? I've known many long-time Farang residents that seem to belong to this category. I'm sure you might as well.....what's the pyschology behind them?

Personal choice.

Then again, I do wake up at night in a cold sweat from time to time contemplating taking Thai lessons to appease bored TV members.

[aussiebebe]

After living in Bangkok for three years and happily speaking with my wife and our son in English and Thai (as best I can) a few months ago I starting learning Thai at a language school. It took time, money and effort and lots of people questioined whether I needed to - however I think it's something everyone should at least try when they arrive - makes living in LOS more fun!

Why is it hard to speak Thai? Here's a funny example of what happened to me. Like most foreigners I quickly learnt how to say water 'nam' and to have/have not 'mee/mai mee' and - my wife would speak Thaiglish

The trousers are wet = 'trou-ser mee nam' - because I didn't know the Thai for 'trouser' or 'wet'

my wife simply compensated with English when she thought I wouldn't understand Thai - so we - like most couples - developed a Thaiglish which DOES NOT lead to fluency.

I speak English with my son, and he speaks Thai with my wife and learns the easiest words of both languages first.

[kurnell]

I struggle with Thai as I am poor with languages. Tried Spanish bit failed.

Reckon I am in the group of overpaid expats that loiter in farang only circles, with Thai staff that speak fluent English and I love it.

I buy what I want, say what I want and do what I want cos I have money.

Is there a Thai word for my behaviour?

yes, there seem to be a perfect phase for such universal behaviors befitting such life style as well.... lol

it is aptly termed.... farang key nok, hork bai, song sa luoeng

translation into simplified english?

farang--westerners

key nok--airborne creatures' manure

hork bai--six pieces

song sa luoeng--for the price of two quarters (thai monetary unit--25 satungs equal one sa-luoeng, 4 sa-luoeng equal 1 baht)

that is a comical ancient saying, not a very flattery phrase, i am afraid. it might not be even remotely applicable in any expat real life.... lol

however, for the self description you expressed above, this thai phrase appears to be very closely equivalent indeed.... lol

cheers....

........and loving it.

[ihunnieibee]

ihunnieibee

the elderly chinese immigrants of several decades ago, who came to nyc to start a new life of their own, might appear to not able to speak a word of english, but in reality they rather prefered not to converse in english--just like many have stated in thaivisa that there was no need for them to speak in another language as far as they are concerned....

how do i know? i was there talking to many of them in cantonese, putungwha.... laughing along with them when they were trying to relate funny and pleasant encounters with 'gwai-low' (farangs) who did not appear to understand what the elderly chinese were saying in english.... lol

just because someone does not speak english with us, that does not necessarily mean that they can not speak english-- MAI COW-JAI KRUB, KOR-TOOD KRUB.... lol

Ok, I was just basing this on the fact of the many NYC Chinese people that I know. I'm 25 so I mostly know people around my age...95% of them have parents that don't understand or speak ANY English at all. I feel like, why would they lie to me about something so stupid?

[nakachalet]

ihunnieibee

i know, many second generation chinese in the us somehow are sort of 'less than proud' of their parents' sacrifices. very few would take their parents out of china town to sight seeing etc. however, the third generation of the immigrants mostly are entirely opposit--they are proud of their grandpas' and grandmas' accomplishments. they are much closer to their grandparents insisting that their grandparents do this and that and enjoy this and that while they can.... amazing

however, to the consternation of the grandparents, these second and third generation children do not dress like, act like, speak like, and; most importantly, obey like their grandpas and grandmas at all.... they are all behaving like gwai-low.... lol

btw, you are 25ish, there are plenty of time to enjoy every bid of good things in life thailand has to offer.... at a very ridiculously reasonable price....

welcome to thailand and enjoy.... with one eye opens and both hands over your assets.... lol

[beerchang]

I read somewhere that it's easier for a child to learn a language because there's less 'stuff' using up the cells. If you're an old fellah, your brain's pretty full up (open season for witty comments begins!) therefore more difficult. Makes sense to me.

I speak a lot of Thai, not fluent, but have some trouble listening, particularly as I live in Issaanland. Have to ask people to speak Thai. Add to that my wife speaks English and that makes it easier for me to rattle off without thinking to much. (similar to some posters on here!!! )

Some people are not 'language learners' by nature, myself included, it's just the amount of time i've been here. I've just picked it up. Teaching English for 3 years also helped, just listen to the immediate translation when a Thai learns new vocabulary.

I'd love to learn to speak American one day .

[edgarfriendly]

been here for a decade. i have found difficulties with consistency with thai teachers(teaching me) they quickly lose patience with my questioning, fouling our relationship and too often pronounce words and/or phrases differently to previous teachers...

ive known too many low-end 'teachers' who spend their days practicing their thai in classes of english learners.

i know it can be useful, especially if used in correlation with other lessons, but not throughout semesters.

its outrageous.

but well done, u can speak clearly.

ef.

tbh - each to his own, i can speak it well, although my vocabulary isnt massive. but my reading and writing are as poor as can be, i struggle with the letters themselves.

so now, after years of not practicing thai during english classes, i'm a student myself, and my teachers still are inconsistent and moody cos i dont know my letters.

should i go to class tomorrow? i think so, but i'm happy enough with a visa.

[zzaa09]

simcity

my southern offices are paying around 450 bath per detail cleaning and around 250 baht for a quickie.

wonder what do you charge your long term repeat customers in your neck of the wood?

yes, agree with you, good local helpers are extremely difficult to find, especially those in the southern areas, every male or female seems to have inherited some acrage of rubber plantation--therefore they do not feel the urgent need to make a living like citizen from other regions.

this major difference, among several others, between the northern thais and the southern thais becomes very obvious to those of us who travel from east to west and north to south in search of each own utopia.... lol

imho, the majority of the people in the south are less likely to 'cheat' you. on the contrary, many are willing and are happy to buy you a beer or two, instead of the other way around. yes, it happened to me several times. but then these people might already know that i do not drink beer.... lol

Ironically, there are a number of ideals that visitors and residents alike miss when interacting with Thais. Self-sufficiency and extensions of a social and familial manner. They're cluless because they've practiced such.....