Pattaya Immigration Retirement Extension Change

[Jingthing]

If you are using the 800K in the bank only (no embassy income letter) you now must season the money for three months for subsequent extensions. Before this change which is EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY there was no money seasoning requiring for such subsequent extensions at Pattaya. In other words, THERE IS NO GRACE PERIOD IF YOU ARE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS CHANGE (as usual).

First time extensions as before, the money needs to be seasoned for two months.

Source: August 1 Pattaya Today

One little break though:

A week or two less than the 90 days will be OK.

BTW, to those who say this is no change because this was already the law -- a change in routine ENFORCEMENT is indeed a REAL important change for those who have based their extension applications on their perception of local enforcement policy.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[KevinBloodyWilson]

If you are using the 800K in the bank only (no embassy income letter) you now must season the money for three months for subsequent extensions. Before this change which is EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY there was no money seasoning requiring for such subsequent extensions at Pattaya. In other words, THERE IS NO GRACE PERIOD IF YOU ARE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS CHANGE (as usual).

First time extensions as before, the money needs to be seasoned for two months.

Source: August 1 Pattaya Today

One little break though:

A week or two less than the 90 days will be OK.

BTW, to those who say this is no change because this was already the law -- a change in routine ENFORCEMENT is indeed a REAL important change for those who have based their extension applications on their perception of local enforcement policy.

As I understood it, this was a;ways the case. When I arrived I had a 3-month retirement visa and had to go again to get the 12 month visa after having the dosh in a Thai bank earning 15THB a year in interest before I could do so. That was 2004. Not sure anything has changed has it?

Kev

[Jingthing]

Yes! It has definitely changed for SUBSEQUENT extensions. Pattaya was allowing NO SEASONING before the application. Now they are requiring three months the same as the rest of the offices. It has been this way (the no seasoning) for some years now. I know this for a FACT, many reports, expert advice, and PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I am talking the last few years, can't really speak for 2004.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[noahvail]

BTW, to those who say this is no change because this was already the law -- a change in routine ENFORCEMENT is indeed a REAL important change for those who have based their extension applications on their perception of local enforcement policy.

Jingthing, in the short time I've been in LoS, one of the important things I've learned is that enforcement blows like the wind - very changeable, and very *quickly* changeable. Look at all the "crackdowns" that are scheduled, rescheduled, and so on...

"Perception" of enforcement is just that - a subjective estimate of how the law might or might not apply to you. I reckon the only way not to get caught out on such matters is to comply with the law. That's not always easy in Thailand, of course, and some things are easier than others to comply with than others. But if you're not complying with the law, then a swift change in enforcement can be the price you pay.

[Jingthing]

Oh please folks. I am talking about a very specific thing and a very specific CHANGE. This didn't change like the wind, they have been allowing no seasoning for subsequent extensions using the 800K for some years now, And now they aren't. That isn't like the wind. But it IS a real change.

Another point. THIS WAS NO SECRET and it wasn't inconsistent. Immigration officers would tell you directly: THE MONEY CAN BE IN THE DAY BEFORE. It happened to me. But not anymore. You have been warned.

I find it bizarre when people want to get so philosophical and/or MORALISTIC about something like this. There are rules and there is also enforcement. They are both real. For example, prostitution is illegal in Thailand, did you know that?

OK, now I will be moralistic myself. If they are going to change enforcement policies on a dime, policies they have been totally open about even to the local press (the no seasoning as before) why oh why can't they GRANDFATHER in the people planning based on expected enforcement during the change period? There are surely some people who cannot meet the 3 months now because of the timing of their extension and the INSTANT ENFORCEMENT change announcement.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[noahvail]

Oh please folks. I am talking about a very specific thing and a very specific CHANGE. This didn't change like the wind, they have been allowing no seasoning for subsequent extensions using the 800K for some years now, And now they aren't. That isn't like the wind. But it IS a real change.

Another point. THIS WAS NO SECRET and it wasn't inconsistent. Immigration officers would tell you directly: THE MONEY CAN BE IN THE DAY BEFORE. It happened to me. But not anymore. You have been warned.

I find it bizarre when people want to get so philosophical and/or MORALISTIC about something like this. There are rules and there is also enforcement. They are both real. For example, prostitution is illegal in Thailand, did you know that?

OK, now I will be moralistic myself. If they are going to change enforcement policies on a dime, policies they have been totally open about even to the local press (the no seasoning as before) why oh why can't they GRANDFATHER in the people planning based on expected enforcement during the change period? There are surely some people who cannot meet the 3 months now because of the timing of their extension and the INSTANT ENFORCEMENT change announcement.

To keep the analogy going, the wind blew one way for years, and now it has abruptly changed. Meh...

And being biased towards myself, I don't see my statements as moralistic - just realistic. And it sounds as though that reality has hit home. I feel bad for any of the folks caught up in this - it will perhaps require some fancy footwork for some to meet the requirement in some other way.

"why oh why can't they GRANDFATHER in the people planning based on expected enforcement during the change period?" Other than saying TiT, perhaps that office has been told to get into line with the other ones. Who knows? But whinging won't change it back.

[eyebee]

As there is no requirement for seasoning if using the income route, is there a minimum monthly income requirement? For instance could you get an embassy letter stating that you receive, say, 1,000 baht a month and then put 788,000 (800,000 - 12,000) in your account the day before? Would Immigration accept this?

This would seem ridiculous - but I've not seen a minimum income requirement.

[noahvail]

As there is no requirement for seasoning if using the income route, is there a minimum monthly income requirement? For instance could you get an embassy letter stating that you receive, say, 1,000 baht a month and then put 788,000 (800,000 - 12,000) in your account the day before? Would Immigration accept this?

This would seem ridiculous - but I've not seen a minimum income requirement.

My understanding is that for subsequent extensions of a retirement visa, you must either 1) deposit ฿800,000 for three months, or 2) show incoming deposits of an average of 65,000 per month, or 3) a combination of the two. I suppose that leaves a bit of a grey area. But in your example, I don't think an embassy letter would be enough for a subsequent extension - they want to see cash coming into an account in your name (no joint accounts). I'm sure if I'm wrong about this, other members will make the corrections.

[lopburi3]

There has not been any requirement for a specific amount in bank account when using the combined method. Will all officers accept any combination I don't believe anyone can answer for sure. But have not seen any reports of not doing so.

[Jingthing]

But in your example, I don't think an embassy letter would be enough for a subsequent extension - they want to see cash coming into an account in your name (no joint accounts). I'm sure if I'm wrong about this, other members will make the corrections.

You are wrong about this. By law any combination of embassy letter (THE AMOUNT IS NOT SPECIFIED) plus bank account totaling greater than 800K would work and using combo method, no money seasoning requirement. I have posted MULTIPLE times the same question, could a very small income on an embassy letter (for example 30K baht a year) combined with bank account nullify the money seasoning requirement? As the rules are written as no minimum amount for the embassy letter is specified, it should in theory work. But nobody who has tried this has reported their results that I have ever seen. Before it was a theoretical question for subsequent extensions at Pattaya, but now that they have changed the enforcement, not so theoretical if you claim a small income for an embassy letter. I think someone should try this!

To clarify, I am not suggesting that anyone claim an income they do not actually have! Many of us have various income streams such as interest and dividends and they can be very small compared to a pension. These income streams are legitimate for immigration purposes.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[Phatcharanan]

Oh dear. Another quick enforcement.

[JimGant]

But in your example, I don't think an embassy letter would be enough for a subsequent extension - they want to see cash coming into an account in your name (no joint accounts). I'm sure if I'm wrong about this, other members will make the corrections.

I haven't seen the requirement for 'movement' into your Thai bank account for quite sometime (for those using the money-in-the-bank route for extensions). And I've never seen a requirement that money shown in an "income statement" necessarily must move into a Thai bank account.

But, then, I might have missed something along the line.......

[Jingthing]

But, then, I might have missed something along the line......

You didn't miss a thing. There is no such requirement. However some offices may enforce things differently and any officer has the right to ask for more information at their discretion.

[Jonathanpattaya]

If you are using the 800K in the bank only (no embassy income letter) you now must season the money for three months for subsequent extensions. Before this change which is EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY there was no money seasoning requiring for such subsequent extensions at Pattaya. In other words, THERE IS NO GRACE PERIOD IF YOU ARE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS CHANGE (as usual).

First time extensions as before, the money needs to be seasoned for two months.

Source: August 1 Pattaya Today

One little break though:

A week or two less than the 90 days will be OK.

BTW, to those who say this is no change because this was already the law -- a change in routine ENFORCEMENT is indeed a REAL important change for those who have based their extension applications on their perception of local enforcement policy.

So, no change then.

[Jingthing]

So, no change then.

Ha ha!

Pattaya Today newspaper, as do I who this directly impacts, thought differently when they wrote their headline:

Change to retirement visa rule

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[moe666]

Did they change the rule or start enforceing the rule. I would say in Thailand following the rule for 3 month seasoning should have been the way to go even though a particular office may have been waving this. But it will afford the oppertunity for the Thai bashers to vent and as we all know another nail in the coffin.

[Jingthing]

Did they change the rule or start enforceing the rule.

Neither. They changed the LOCAL enforcement policy. As most people know, there are variances between offices regardless of the national rule.

We are splitting hairs here. This is a REAL change to people in Pattaya who are doing extensions this way and it is REAL news. I hope it is widely spread so that people can avoid being surprised by the change. Cheers.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[SurfRider]

"If you are using the 800K in the bank only (no embassy income letter)"

Why not simply use the Embassy Letter and keep your funds safe in a place where they are earning income for you? The letter only costs 1020 Baht.

.

[Jingthing]

"If you are using the 800K in the bank only (no embassy income letter)"

Why not simply use the Embassy Letter and keep your funds safe in a place where they are earning income for you? The letter only costs 1020 Baht.

.

Not the point really. Many people use the bank account only because they have no pension.

[pen]

If you are using the 800K in the bank only (no embassy income letter) you now must season the money for three months for subsequent extensions. Before this change which is EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY there was no money seasoning requiring for such subsequent extensions at Pattaya. In other words, THERE IS NO GRACE PERIOD IF YOU ARE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS CHANGE (as usual).

First time extensions as before, the money needs to be seasoned for two months.

I have to extend my third year retirement in 2 weeks, and have my 800K transfered next week due to "normal procedure" i.e. a couple of days before extension date. Any who know if they show mercy due to this short notice between enforcement / extension

[Mario2008]

I have to extend my third year retirement in 2 weeks, and have my 800K transfered next week due to "normal procedure" i.e. a couple of days before extension date. Any who know if they show mercy due to this short notice between enforcement / extension

Read the first post again and transfer the money NOW!

In general I would like to remind poeple you can extend early and do not have to wait till your extension almost expires. Doing you extensions early gives you time in case you need to get some extra documents or if the rules change. Your extension will always start from the day the current extension of stay ends.

[Jingthing]

I have to extend my third year retirement in 2 weeks, and have my 800K transfered next week due to "normal procedure" i.e. a couple of days before extension date. Any who know if they show mercy due to this short notice between enforcement / extension

There is no way of knowing if they will grant an exception or not. I agree transfer the funds asap if you can. If I were you I would also buy the Aug 1 Pattaya Today and bring the article announcing the change with you. Politely explain that this news came too late for you to comply this year. Believe me, they know very well they have not been requiring any seasoning for subsequent extensions before. I think your odds are pretty good. In case it is bad news, well, the fix of course is to start over with a new O visa, in which case the money will need to be seasoned for 2 rather then 3 months for the first time extension.

At this point I want to ask a cultural question. Given this poster knows he is not compliant with the new enforcement policy, would it be better to not say anything and hope for the best, or be proactive and admit the problem BEFORE the immigration officer has time to even notice the problem?

I have another idea that may be worth considering. This may be a case where it may be worth it to engage one of the better known visa agents that is known to immigration. Perhaps someone can recommend. (Key visa?) The reason for this is the chance you may get more consideration this way. Of course, no guarantees with any method, they are in their rights to reject the application.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[InterestedObserver]

I'm due to get another retirement extension next week from Pattaya immigration. As in all previous years the 800k is in the bank ready and waiting, in order to comply with the law. The retirement extension requirements are not new, the law has been well publicized for many years, if for whatever reason you choose not to adhere to those requirements then you are just asking for trouble. The fact that Pattaya immigration did this or that in the past really does not change the immigration law as written. If some people have been caught short, sorry, but TIT!

Edited August 4, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[Wombat6]

To simplify this subject...

First application to extend your retirement Visa

800k Baht must be in a Thai Bank account for a minimum of 60 days prior to application or a Statutory Declaration signed at your Country Embassy and stamped by the Embassy, stating your annual or monthly income (up to you what you enter on the Stat dec. ...if under 65,000 per month, the difference between your annual income and the 800k, must be held as a deposit, 60 days prior to application for extension.

For subsequent applications for extension......the same as above but time changes to 3 months or 90 days prior to application.

Note. The Statutory declaration...commonly called "An Embassy letter" is a legal document and enforceable by the laws of your own country if found to be a false statement. It is completely up to you what you state in the document as proof is not required to back up what you declare. (Up to you! ). Cost at Australian Embassy was 550 Baht.

[Jingthing]

The fact that Pattaya immigration did this or that in the past really does not change the immigration law as written.

Oy vey. I never said there was any change to the LAW. I said there was a change to enforcement policy at one office, Pattaya. To the poster caught by surprise by this change, another option of course is to get an embassy letter if you can legitimately claim ANY income (for example, interest income/diviidends) no matter how small. If you do this and use the COMBO METHOD under the law you would be exempt from any money seasoning requirement. However as mentioned before we really don't know how immigration offices respond to people presenting embassy letters with very small amounts ... Good luck.

[lopburi3]

To simplify this subject...

First application to extend your retirement Visa

800k Baht must be in a Thai Bank account for a minimum of 60 days prior to application or a Statutory Declaration signed at your Country Embassy and stamped by the Embassy, stating your annual or monthly income (up to you what you enter on the Stat dec. ...if under 65,000 per month, the difference between your annual income and the 800k, must be held as a deposit, 60 days prior to application for extension.

For subsequent applications for extension......the same as above but time changes to 3 months or 90 days prior to application.

Note. The Statutory declaration...commonly called "An Embassy letter" is a legal document and enforceable by the laws of your own country if found to be a false statement. It is completely up to you what you state in the document as proof is not required to back up what you declare. (Up to you! ). Cost at Australian Embassy was 550 Baht.

1. The Embassy letter requirements vary by the Embassy involved. Proof (or at least paperwork) is required by many.

2. The difference between 65k and the 800k requirement does not have to be held in account any period of time. It has to be there the day of application.

[Jingthing]

2. The difference between 65k and the 800k requirement does not have to be held in account any period of time. It has to be there the day of application.

Exactly right. Having an embassy letter of ANY amount technically under the law wipes out all money seasoning requirements.

[Zodiac]

Jingthing thank you for this post and excuse me although I should know the answer I am having a dim day and have not yet seen Pattaya Today for 1st August. Could you or someone explain what is meant when you say:

"you now must season the money for three months for subsequent extensions."

Specifically the word 'season'. Do you mean have the money in the account for 2 months prior to the application for extension or what?

I have a retirement visa based on the 800,000 baht in the bank route, and every extension time I simply use that same money-which is untouched for years- to apply and get my extension renewed.

So does this rule change affect my situation ?

[Jingthing]

Jingthing thank you for this post and excuse me although I should know the answer I am having a dim day and have not yet seen Pattaya Today for 1st August. Could you or someone explain what is meant when you say:

"you now must season the money for three months for subsequent extensions."

Specifically the word 'season'. Do you mean have the money in the account for 2 months prior to the application for extension or what?

I have a retirement visa based on the 800,000 baht in the bank route, and every extension time I simply use that same money-which is untouched for years- to apply and get my extension renewed.

So does this rule change affect my situation ?

Short answer: No.

As long as your bank balance is ABOVE 800K for the entire THREE MONTH period before your extension application meeting you are good to go, or rather, good to stay. Do not let it drop even one baht under 800K during that time period though,

[pen]

I have to extend my third year retirement in 2 weeks, and have my 800K transfered next week due to "normal procedure" i.e. a couple of days before extension date. Any who know if they show mercy due to this short notice between enforcement / extension

Read the first post again and transfer the money NOW!

In general I would like to remind poeple you can extend early and do not have to wait till your extension almost expires. Doing you extensions early gives you time in case you need to get some extra documents or if the rules change. Your extension will always start from the day the current extension of stay ends.

Just for info...

Went to Mapthaput Imm. Office today, "no mercy" they also now comply with the rules !! i.e. 800K for 3 month, before they have the same policy as Pattaya imm.. But they gave me extension for 90 days, and then i can get another extension for one year...