Thailand Fever

[sanmiguellight]

Hahaha. It's not a shot at homosexuals, it's a shot at a guy that doesn't seem to like women....that's where the comedy is.

Thanks for telling me .... unfortunatley i do like women they look so perfect, they smell so good and are such good company in bed .... so i'm stuck with having to put up with them ... but i cant see how a book by a 25 yo virgin could possibly help in any way shape or form .... best of sticking to the school of life to learn IMEO!

For someone who hasn't read the book, who hasn't got a partner (at least not a female partner).

Well the news ive just received over the weekend off a fertile young lady, i half wish i'd been into back door shenanigans!

who is not interested in anyone's culture.

I am interested in the people i meet, just not into a culture that is a figment of their imagination.

and gets his inspiration from an internet forum..

That was not meant to be taken as fact!

[venturalaw]

so much anger and bitterness.

you do post a lot for someone who isn't interested in this topic/book.

There is no anger or bitterness here, I am merely replying to people who have commented on what i wrote.

Why do you think he looks like a bit of a lady's man?

maybe he has a golden willy and perhaps he can make women make noises you've never heard before

how do you know what women wants because you "couldn't care less about understanding women".

if you get involved with someone from a different culture than your own then you should make an effort to try to understand it otherwise the relationship is doomed.

maybe the story you wrote is your personal experience but it has absolutely nothing to do with this book.

read it before you judge it.

You are attempting to reason with someone who sincerely believes that he knows it all, and, that he can tell the value of a book that he has not read by the appearance of its author. In short, not only is he ignorant, he is most likely incapable of learning. Therefore, your attempt to enlighten him is an impossible task.

Back on topic - I read the book years ago which basically provided a decent format in clearly establishing the significant differences between the Thai and Western cultures. Before reading it I was not aware that such differences existed, and therefore it increased my understanding and acceptance of my gf. By gaining said understanding, I was able to better relate to my gf and make headway in the relationship that would have either been prevented, or at least slowed down by having to discover the differences without a road-map (so to speak). I am not stating that I accepted many of the recommendations in the book (payment of sin sod, etc.). I did not. But, without reading the book, I would not have understood how and why, for instance, establishing independence is not as important to the Thai, and that extended family unity is virtually everything. Additionally, it was very interesting to understand 'saving face' vs. 'honesty', which at times can conflict. In short, I found the book very helpful.

[rylemano]

Kaosoi,

Sorry to see your thread hijacked.

I read that book 5 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember completing it in just a few hours and was fascinated by the 2 perspectives - Western Vs. Thai - concept. I'm very impressed with your digest too. Just like you, I had a hard time with some of the presented concepts, specifically how Thais are constantly giving Westerners an opportunity to demonstrate our generosity. I don’t like the idea of feeling like a free buffet, all the time.

I also noticed how the book is targeted at poor women from Isaan. I'd say a key lesson I learned from this book AND from 2 previous relationships with Thai women, is that I should focus future relationships with girls that belong to my social class. This should be a good way to stay clear of candidates that are interested for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not sure if I can achieve that goal, but I'll definitely give it a try in the coming months. I'm soon moving to Thailand. Wish me luck!

Take care,

[venturalaw]

Kaosoi,

Sorry to see your thread hijacked.

I read that book 5 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember completing it in just a few hours and was fascinated by the 2 perspectives - Western Vs. Thai - concept. I'm very impressed with your digest too. Just like you, I had a hard time with some of the presented concepts, specifically how Thais are constantly giving Westerners an opportunity to demonstrate our generosity. I don’t like the idea of feeling like a free buffet, all the time.

I also noticed how the book is targeted at poor women from Isaan. I'd say a key lesson I learned from this book AND from 2 previous relationships with Thai women, is that I should focus future relationships with girls that belong to my social class. This should be a good way to stay clear of candidates that are interested for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not sure if I can achieve that goal, but I'll definitely give it a try in the coming months. I'm soon moving to Thailand. Wish me luck!

Take care,

Good luck to you and welcome to the LOS.

[kaosoi]

Kaosoi,

Sorry to see your thread hijacked.

I read that book 5 years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember completing it in just a few hours and was fascinated by the 2 perspectives - Western Vs. Thai - concept. I'm very impressed with your digest too. Just like you, I had a hard time with some of the presented concepts, specifically how Thais are constantly giving Westerners an opportunity to demonstrate our generosity. I don’t like the idea of feeling like a free buffet, all the time.

I also noticed how the book is targeted at poor women from Isaan. I'd say a key lesson I learned from this book AND from 2 previous relationships with Thai women, is that I should focus future relationships with girls that belong to my social class. This should be a good way to stay clear of candidates that are interested for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not sure if I can achieve that goal, but I'll definitely give it a try in the coming months. I'm soon moving to Thailand. Wish me luck!

Take care,

Thanks for the comment. It is interesting to read a few responses that the values expressed in the book are directed towards Isaan ladies rather than more general. However, perhaps soe of it is still relevant across various parts of Thai society?

Venturelaw, I think you were one of the people who recommended it to me.....Can I ask if your wife/GF read it and what she thought?

[jombom]

Hi Kaosoi,

Yes, the book is well worth reading --- I have loaned it to many people, who all had a positive view.

In relation to your query;

''OK, that is enough. In spite of the concerns mentioned above I liked the book and thought it worth reading. As I said, I am still forming my views (my GF is reading the book now) and would be interested in hearing other people's. It would be especially interesting to hear a Thai person's view (or what did your wife or GF think?).''

My first Thai GF made the valid point that she was not the same as the girl in the book, and I was not the same as the man. No two people are the same.

The book is useful as a guide and reference, but it is not wise to assume it is ''gospel''

All the best

[venturalaw]

To kaosoi, my gf at the time (five years ago) did find it informative. My Thai wife (different woman) agreed with many of the differences pointed out and basically enjoyed the read. It inspired discussion raising our consciousness of the differences between our respective cultures.

I certainly agree with jombom that the book is useful as a guide and should not be taken as gospel.

[paulfr]

who is not interested in anyone's culture.

I am interested in the people i meet, just not into a culture that is a figment of their imagination.

"A culture that is a figment of their imagination ?"

So you do not think there is a distinct Thai culture [they imagine it]

or as that implies, that it is different from Western culture ?

Best of luck to you.

You are going to continually need it, I suspect.

=========================

On topic ....

I read it when I first came here and since I dated bargirls, it helped me

enormously understanding how differently people here think and behave.

I also recommend reading Private Dancer by Steven Leather.

You will then know that you are in another world and be prepared for the worst.

It can be quite dangerous here for the clueless Westerner.

Edited August 18, 2009 by paulfr

[Roadman]

I read it after I had been coming to Thailand for about 3 or 4 years. At that stage I found it of little value and as one of my wife's girlfriends told me in regard to reading books about Thai women "why read about us in books when we are here for you to ask".

However for someone 'green' arriving here it is one of the few 'falang' written books of some value in regard to relationships. Just about all the rest of the falang written stuff (formative or novel) are an endless pile of garbage.

[OxfordWill]

Always nice to hear from the "I havent read it and Im not going to" crew who are still struggling to read their first book in life.

Can I also recommend

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...34303&itm=1

and a detailed understanding of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocentrism...l_underpinnings

And to the OP your observations were interesting, I would advise you to leave off conclusions about the generosity aspect until you have more experience in Thailand, and also would only add that this book cannot do all things to all people- but it is a good introduction. It isnt much more than an introduction, however, and reading the book I linked to above before reading this one might also help some.

[dondraper]

As to not derail this thread, I started another on a side issue of what I observed in this thread and in many others.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Blame-Indivi...re-t289923.html

Edited August 18, 2009 by dondraper

[sanmiguellight]

who is not interested in anyone's culture.

I am interested in the people i meet, just not into a culture that is a figment of their imagination.

"A culture that is a figment of their imagination ?"

So you do not think there is a distinct Thai culture [they imagine it]

or as that implies, that it is different from Western culture ?

Best of luck to you.

You are going to continually need it, I suspect.

I make my own luck.

Anyway i started a topic about what is Thai Culture some time ago the answers were at best vague and people with Phd's in Thai cultural studies which is quite a lot of folk didnt fill page after page with their great insight, so now ive found you can you please tell me and the rest of TV what Thai Culture is on the following thread. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Culture-t273994.html

I'm thinking you cant add anything that doesnt apply to here in Blighty.

[sanmiguellight]

I read it after I had been coming to Thailand for about 3 or 4 years. At that stage I found it of little value and as one of my wife's girlfriends told me in regard to reading books about Thai women "why read about us in books when we are here for you to ask".

Exactly!

Just about all the rest of the falang written stuff (formative or novel) are an endless pile of garbage.

This man knows what he's talkiing about!

[kaosoi]

Always nice to hear from the "I havent read it and Im not going to" crew who are still struggling to read their first book in life.

Can I also recommend

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...34303&itm=1

and a detailed understanding of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocentrism...l_underpinnings

And to the OP your observations were interesting, I would advise you to leave off conclusions about the generosity aspect until you have more experience in Thailand, and also would only add that this book cannot do all things to all people- but it is a good introduction. It isnt much more than an introduction, however, and reading the book I linked to above before reading this one might also help some.

OxfordWill, Thanks for the comment - can I ask for your own experience of generosity in Thais and how it accords (or not) with what is stated in the book?

Generally speaking I am aware that neither this book or any other is going to be a comprehensive guide to entire cultures and personalities but I agree that it could be a useful book. No offense to anyone, but I would be interested in hearing someone's specific comments about the book (rather than people saying it is, perhaps, useful as a general guideline). I appreciate the value of the guideline statement but it would be good to hear how someone's experience differs or agrees with the points posited in the book.

500 words on my desk, citing examples, by tomorrow morning please.

Thanks.

[OxfordWill]

To answer that to my satisfaction it would have to be more like 50 000 but thankfully there are plenty of ethnographies out there.

Ill have to settle for a D- grade

Or you can buy me a beer sometime and Ill wax lyrical for as long as you like You specifically asked against this but "generally" I have found the book's statement that Thais' primary source of self esteem is generosity to be correct. The main argument against this these days is how modern toys like cars and so on are overtaking but I would argue this is due to the increased amount of generosity one can afford when one is rich. Common mistake is to interpret this in the western way- we are taught to be generous in a selfless way, but Thais have a system which results in generosity being self serving too.

Edited August 18, 2009 by OxfordWill

[thaimiller]

I loved it and found it very useful in the early days of my relationship.

Same same

Me too.

Ive been with the Mrs over 5 years now and found it very useful at the start and in a lesser capacity still do find it useful now. Occasionally there may be something that the book explains better than I can and I use it then. Good all round book

[camerata]

The Westerner must accept that he has to pay dowry, have his girlfriends parents live with him one day and subsidise his girlfriend and her family.

I bought the book out of curiosity. I liked some of the sections on cultural differences but I thought the section on paying dowry and subsidizing parents was overstated and idealized - almost like the author read it in a book about traditional Thai culture. I thought her comments about Thai men being only too happy to shower their wives/fiancees and families with gifts was laughable so I showed it to my GF. She agreed. She said it's more likely to be the other way round (in real life) - the guy not providing enough for his wife so she has to go and ask her own family for money.

[FD333]

Harcourt

....I'm sure parts of the book would be useful for homosexual relationships too.

Fell off my chair laughing.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Read it passesd it to the missus made her read it and then it was thrown away.

Not sure if we gained any valuable information/insight into each other we learn as we go along.

Still dont get my own space hahahaha

[alant]

quite a response, no matter what anyone thinks there has been quite an outpouring on this subject, which speaks volumes (not a pun).

oh and yes, i too have read it, my mrs gave it to me years ago after she had read it. worth reading? yes it was

[aussiechick]

I read it a long time ago. In fact a western male gave it to me - I thought it was relevent no matter what relationship you are in. My Thai boyfriend at the time also read it and said it was worth reading to understand western attitude. yes, I got "my space" as well.

[medegen]

I think the book should be called "Isaan Fever" I've read a little bit of it and it mainly pertains to those kind.

[mahtin]

I think the book should be called "Isaan Fever" I've read a little bit of it and it mainly pertains to those kind.

[IanForbes]

You are attempting to reason with someone who sincerely believes that he knows it all, and, that he can tell the value of a book that he has not read by the appearance of its author. In short, not only is he ignorant, he is most likely incapable of learning. Therefore, your attempt to enlighten him is an impossible task.

Back on topic - I read the book years ago which basically provided a decent format in clearly establishing the significant differences between the Thai and Western cultures. Before reading it I was not aware that such differences existed, and therefore it increased my understanding and acceptance of my gf. By gaining said understanding, I was able to better relate to my gf and make headway in the relationship that would have either been prevented, or at least slowed down by having to discover the differences without a road-map (so to speak). I am not stating that I accepted many of the recommendations in the book (payment of sin sod, etc.). I did not. But, without reading the book, I would not have understood how and why, for instance, establishing independence is not as important to the Thai, and that extended family unity is virtually everything. Additionally, it was very interesting to understand 'saving face' vs. 'honesty', which at times can conflict. In short, I found the book very helpful.

Well said, Venturalaw. I'm a writer and understand that NO piece of writing can be the final word on any subject. As a reader you only need to learn ONE aspect of a subject to make it valuable. It's like learning certain physical exercises... such as riding a bicycle. Once you learn the basics you can go on from there. I read the book "Thailand Fever" and had one similar called "In the bed and out of trouble". It was helpful for both my Thai partner and I to understand each other when our understanding of each other's language was not that good. Unfortunately, I loaned the book to a friend who never returned it.

It doesn't matter whether or not the author and his girlfriend had any previous knowledge of the opposite sex. It was their experiences and how they solved certain issues that count. Besides that, the book is/was successful and it probably earned the author a few dollars. And, as a fellow writer, that is important.

[Harcourt]

Well said, Venturalaw. .......... I read the book "Thailand Fever" and had one similar called "In the bed and out of trouble". It was helpful for both my Thai partner and I to understand each other when our understanding of each other's language was not that good. Unfortunately, I loaned the book to a friend who never returned it......

Hint hint.....so give it back if you're a member here, whoever you are.

[tw25rw]

Unfortunately, I loaned the book to a friend who never returned it.

I've loaned out 2 before i evn read them and never got them back. The 3rd is staying with me.

I relate to much but not all that is in the book. Certainly explains why I am perfectly happy walking around the house with nothing on, but the other half would be mortified if I ever saw her naked with the light on...

[sanmiguellight]

I read it a long time ago. In fact a western male gave it to me - I thought it was relevent no matter what relationship you are in. My Thai boyfriend at the time also read it and said it was worth reading to understand western attitude. yes, I got "my space" as well.

See this is what i'm getting at, i had a Thai gf who wasnt giving me enough space so i put her on a plane to Samui with a hotel booked and said i will come and see you tomorrow i need some time alone, its doing my head in being with you 24/7.

Now please dont tell me you need read a book to give you the balls to TELL your partner you need a bit of space, this is just the very basics of common sense.

Edited August 20, 2009 by sanmiguellight

[bangla]

lol

you TELL your girlfriend to do stuff?

you PUT her on a plane if she wants or not?

that's not a gf, that's an employee.

you need more than a book, dude.

[sokal]

so much anger and bitterness.

you do post a lot for someone who isn't interested in this topic/book.

There is no anger or bitterness here, I am merely replying to people who have commented on what i wrote.

Why do you think he looks like a bit of a lady's man?

what if he is rich ?

[Datsun240Z]

I read my own brain, does that count to?