Big Trouble In Tourist Thailand

[Mossfinn]

I apologise for my rudeness here

There is no need to shout on here, you can/have made your point/s suitably enough up to now, however I will qualify that with, I would have been shouting a lot earlier than this stage.

There has and always will be a pathological hatred of authoritative figures, particularly Police, within certain groups, I have never understood it, perhaps I can be enlightened here.

I am not saying I agree with you, but I have respect, because you stand here and try and put your case forward, an awful lot better than the nay sayers in my opinion.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Mossfinn

[caf]

Khun Fart.... What makes you think they do not have dedicated training? I recall they have parachute jump training, marksman, first aid and dare say basic law enforcement knowledge and procedural training specifically geared towards the volunteer assistants.

Sure HM can comment on their training aspects?

From being a former volunteer medic in a Fire Brigade, I can tell you first hand the best experience one can get is from actual day to day incidents. No training is more valuable than experience itself.

We have some of the toughest vetting procedures in place here in Pattaya than any other volunteer group around Thailand. I am not willing to go into the finer details of the process, but I have to say that even these procedures are not full proof as detailed checks from Thailand and the members country of origin are easily obtained by us, but who knows what they may have done in another country! It is my responsibility in Pattaya to closely monitor everyone in the group and act when information is received by me concerning the actions of a member of the group which requires further investigation. I work very closely with my superior who is a Police Captain responsible for our group and ask him, as a Police Officer, to investigate when needed.

Regarding training, we are constantly being trained and retrained, not because the Police want this but because I, as the Group Leader of the Pattaya Branch want the group to know as much as possible and to be prepared for any eventuality. For example we will soon be holding a basic fire fighting course and a further self-defense course which will include instruction on restaining techniques. We don't publicise all training courses we attended because we don't need to. We are in no way accountable to anyone on chat forums or within the expat community, only to the Tourist Police who allow us to do what we do. However if anyone has a problem with a Tourist Police Volunteer/Assistant from Pattaya or anywhere around Thailand I urge you to make a formal complaint to your local Tourist Police Station. If you do have a complaint you must back up any claims with evidence.

A professional policeman believes in serving the community. You believe as you say in not being accountable to the community. Pathetic

If you are being retained what does that say about the original training

The concept of police volunteering is good but it clearly has recruited totally some wrong people on an ego trip rather than trying to serve a community

[balo]

As a tourist in Thailand getting in trouble , I would be very happy to find a farang volunteer working with the police .

I think Howard deserves credit for what he does.

We all know that corruption is a part of the daily life in Thailand , maybe the rules are different from what we're used to back home but without the tourist police it would have been very difficult for any farang tourists to understand the situation when it happens .

I hate crime and corruption . I think most of the volunteers have very good intentions.

Edited September 30, 2009 by balo

[thailenol]

I am sure this has been covered, but I am terribly lazy and refuse to read through 45 pages of argumentative posts. I am wondering how well the tourist police volunteers actually speak Thai. If they are helping with translation it seems they ought to be able to speak and understand Thai at a high level and should also be able to read the police reports.

[britmaveric]

^the key is effective communication with their thai counter parts - this is easily done and has been demonstrated over the years of service working as a volunteer. HM and his fellow peers are doing an outstanding job. I hope they realize the vast majority of the community is behind them.

[bannork]

I thought Thailand came out very well from these episodes, the plane crash was a godsend for the producers looking for teary UK folks but no passengers died and the plane was soon sprayed with foam.

The motorbike accident was a salutary warning about drinking and driving, especially motorbikes, the foolish drunk farang girl swearing at the police was lucky not to be put in the cells. IMHO the British government should do more about warning tourists hiring motorbikes- drive very, very carefully!

The fire in Pattaya was soon put out and the English dude who got caught smuggling ecstasy the first time- perhaps passports shouldn't be issued in some cases, still I liked his optimism.

The title of the programme is misleading, it should be' In Trouble in Tourist Thailand'.

Edited September 30, 2009 by cdnvic
removed excessive quote

[cyb]

Khun Fart.... What makes you think they do not have dedicated training? I recall they have parachute jump training, marksman, first aid and dare say basic law enforcement knowledge and procedural training specifically geared towards the volunteer assistants.

Sure HM can comment on their training aspects?

From being a former volunteer medic in a Fire Brigade, I can tell you first hand the best experience one can get is from actual day to day incidents. No training is more valuable than experience itself.

We have some of the toughest vetting procedures in place here in Pattaya than any other volunteer group around Thailand. I am not willing to go into the finer details of the process, but I have to say that even these procedures are not full proof as detailed checks from Thailand and the members country of origin are easily obtained by us, but who knows what they may have done in another country! It is my responsibility in Pattaya to closely monitor everyone in the group and act when information is received by me concerning the actions of a member of the group which requires further investigation. I work very closely with my superior who is a Police Captain responsible for our group and ask him, as a Police Officer, to investigate when needed.

Regarding training, we are constantly being trained and retrained, not because the Police want this but because I, as the Group Leader of the Pattaya Branch want the group to know as much as possible and to be prepared for any eventuality. For example we will soon be holding a basic fire fighting course and a further self-defense course which will include instruction on restaining techniques. We don't publicise all training courses we attended because we don't need to. We are in no way accountable to anyone on chat forums or within the expat community, only to the Tourist Police who allow us to do what we do. However if anyone has a problem with a Tourist Police Volunteer/Assistant from Pattaya or anywhere around Thailand I urge you to make a formal complaint to your local Tourist Police Station. If you do have a complaint you must back up any claims with evidence.

A professional policeman believes in serving the community. You believe as you say in not being accountable to the community. Pathetic

If you are being retained what does that say about the original training

The concept of police volunteering is good but it clearly has recruited totally some wrong people on an ego trip rather than trying to serve a community

It says they are being responsible and updating their training.

[simon43]

I am sure this has been covered, but I am terribly lazy and refuse to read through 45 pages of argumentative posts. I am wondering how well the tourist police volunteers actually speak Thai. If they are helping with translation it seems they ought to be able to speak and understand Thai at a high level and should also be able to read the police reports.

Actually, if this requirement were set, then there would be no volunteers! EG - For the Bangkok liaison translators, all are required to speak Thai to a reasonable degree, but AFAIK I am the only non-Thai person on their team who can read and write reasonable Thai, (and I have big problems reading police reports if the writing is untidy!).

As far as speaking Thai is concerned, it should be the first question asked of a foreign volunteer when they apply for these types of duties. But I know from personal knowledge that the number who speak passable Thai is perhaps 20-25% of the volunteer teams, (remember that volunteers will include Indians, Chinese, as well as 'westerners').

The language skills that volunteers bring to the table does include mother-tongue and fluency in a whole range of European and Asian languages, and that is extremely useful, (anyone speak Iranian?? Please volunteer!!). But the need to understand and speak passable Thai is also of paramount importance.

I should commend some volunteers who can speak several languages, (Patrick, team supervisor in Phuket is fluent in about 6 languages, including English, Thai, French, Hebrew, Italian and Spanish). I can manage English, Thai and French, with some basic German, Spanish and currently learning Burmese!).

Simon

[cdnvic]

One personal attack deleted. I won't tolerate another.

Howard, stop yelling.

[Mark Wolfe]

JetsetBkk:

And what do you think policemen in the UK or US did before they became policemen?

Graduate from the police academy, perhaps?

Hm1973

We are in no way accountable to anyone on chat forums or within the expat community, only to the Tourist Police who allow us to do what we do.

That's a frightening thought. We are only accountable to the "law enforcement" in Thailand and not any segment of the public? Yikes!

Regarding training, we are constantly being trained and retrained, not because the Police want this but because I, as the Group Leader of the Pattaya Branch want the group to know as much as possible and to be prepared for any eventuality.

This does not include basic Thai language training, it appears.

Britmaveric:

Where did anyone search a food cart? Are you even watching the same show?

A russian tourist reported to them that a thai vendor was selling drugs from a food cart. Howard went along with his thai counterpart.

Then Howard went to INVESTIGATE and INSPECT, which according to the central rules is forbidden.

5. Volunteers should not be involved in activities such as arrests, interrogations, investigations or inspections

This idea that each locale has its own rules is suspect in the extreme. IF it is true, then the whole endeavor is pretty willy-nilly

[Zodiac]

What is Neils Colov's role in the Tourist Police? He seems to be involved in everything in Pattaya!

He is the project leader of the foreign police volunteers who are based at Pattaya Police Station, nothing to do with the Tourist Police.

By the way, I am having a great laugh reading some of these posts on here. It really is unbelievable what some people say. So many experts on here....and quite a few jealous people as well, but I understand that.

I probably shouldn't bite but I will say this one thing. I will put it in capital letters so some of you can understand it. Maybe some of you should write this down and keep it for future reference so you don't keep REPEATING yourselves. Here we go......ready.....by the way I can only speak for the Pattaya Tourist Police, other stations may do things differently.

FOREIGN TOURIST POLICE ASSISTANTS IN PATTAYA ASSIST THE TOURIST POLICE IN THEIR DUTIES. WE WORK UNDER DIRECT INSTRUCTION OF THE TOURIST POLICE AND IF REQUESTED WE CAN ASSIST THEM IN ANY MATTER AS LONG AS WE REMAIN WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THAI LAW.

IT IS REALLY THAT SIMPLE........DIGEST WHAT I JUST SAID AND REMEMBER IT. DON'T QUESTION ME ON IT BECAUSE I WILL NOT ANSWER.

I apologise for my rudeness here and I hope it does not offend the sensible TV posters here.

Howard Miller(HM):

Whilst you might as you claim be having a laugh at some of the postings here,I can assure you that the antics of you and your other uniformed ones in black is causing serious concern as amongst other things:

1. The evidence is clear from the tv series you and others are acting unlawfully;

2. there is no authority legal or otherwise for such behaviour.

-Now in typical cowardly fashion you seek to hide behind what you say is authorisation by the Thai police.

The Thai police are governed by law and even if it were true what you say they have no power to delegate policing duties to you

That is a load of nonsence and you ought to know it.

By writing in capitals about not answering certain questions that is simply a further indication of what a disgrace you really are and the contempt you have for the rule of law.

In a ridiculous act of desperation you are now accusing people of being jealous of you.

After seeing you on tv tell us please:

Why would anyone want to be "jealous" of you ?

Edited September 30, 2009 by Zodiac

[sjaak327]

By the way, I am having a great laugh reading some of these posts on here. It really is unbelievable what some people say. So many experts on here....and quite a few jealous people as well, but I understand that.

I guess you are joking, but for me personally there is no jealousy involved. To be honest I wouldn't want to live in that brothel even if they paid me, let alone spending my free nights on Walking street assisting tourists or the tourist police.

FOREIGN TOURIST POLICE ASSISTANTS IN PATTAYA ASSIST THE TOURIST POLICE IN THEIR DUTIES. WE WORK UNDER DIRECT INSTRUCTION OF THE TOURIST POLICE AND IF REQUESTED WE CAN ASSIST THEM IN ANY MATTER AS LONG AS WE REMAIN WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THAI LAW.

IT IS REALLY THAT SIMPLE........DIGEST WHAT I JUST SAID AND REMEMBER IT. DON'T QUESTION ME ON IT BECAUSE I WILL NOT ANSWER.

We get it now, you are not a police volunteer, you are a police assistant. In that case I personally believe that your unit should be discontinued as soon as possible. I support the setup of the police volunteers, who assist people at police stations, I don't support prentend coppers assisting whichever police force, that is a really bad idea.

But of course posts like this are in vain, as you will not answer, as you are not accountable to anything but the police unit you work for.

That's okay, since this is Thailand, where transparancy is of lesser importance I guess.

[cdnvic]

JetsetBkk:

And what do you think policemen in the UK or US did before they became policemen?

Graduate from the police academy, perhaps?

Someone's never met a rural Sheriff in the US.

[caf]

Khun Fart.... What makes you think they do not have dedicated training? I recall they have parachute jump training, marksman, first aid and dare say basic law enforcement knowledge and procedural training specifically geared towards the volunteer assistants.

Sure HM can comment on their training aspects?

From being a former volunteer medic in a Fire Brigade, I can tell you first hand the best experience one can get is from actual day to day incidents. No training is more valuable than experience itself.

We have some of the toughest vetting procedures in place here in Pattaya than any other volunteer group around Thailand. I am not willing to go into the finer details of the process, but I have to say that even these procedures are not full proof as detailed checks from Thailand and the members country of origin are easily obtained by us, but who knows what they may have done in another country! It is my responsibility in Pattaya to closely monitor everyone in the group and act when information is received by me concerning the actions of a member of the group which requires further investigation. I work very closely with my superior who is a Police Captain responsible for our group and ask him, as a Police Officer, to investigate when needed.

Regarding training, we are constantly being trained and retrained, not because the Police want this but because I, as the Group Leader of the Pattaya Branch want the group to know as much as possible and to be prepared for any eventuality. For example we will soon be holding a basic fire fighting course and a further self-defense course which will include instruction on restaining techniques. We don't publicise all training courses we attended because we don't need to. We are in no way accountable to anyone on chat forums or within the expat community, only to the Tourist Police who allow us to do what we do. However if anyone has a problem with a Tourist Police Volunteer/Assistant from Pattaya or anywhere around Thailand I urge you to make a formal complaint to your local Tourist Police Station. If you do have a complaint you must back up any claims with evidence.

A professional policeman believes in serving the community. You believe as you say in not being accountable to the community. Pathetic

If you are being retained what does that say about the original training

The concept of police volunteering is good but it clearly has recruited totally some wrong people on an ego trip rather than trying to serve a community

It says they are being responsible and updating their training.

Howard said REtraining not updating. The original training had, by his own words, to be re-done.

And after his performances on camera there is likely to be more re-training.

As I keep saying some volunteers are doing a fine job. ( from his own posts) He laughs at constructive criticism and has no responsibility to the community of expats.

Praise the others by all means but dont defend the indefensible. His words and body language say it all

[waza]

The Royal Thai police are undeniably the most universally disliked institution in Thai society. The benefits to tourist of the TVP are undeniable when they act within their mandate. However, if that organisation starts acting like the BIB, then they would recieve the same respect.

[R123]

I notice Miller is involved in some news service in Pattaya. What is the betting that the "news" from them will never criticise these black shirts.

I wonder why?!

Edited September 30, 2009 by R123

[cdnvic]

There are legitimate concerns regarding the TPV and you are welcome to discuss them. However, we don't need a pile-on Howard where the same gripes are repeated ad-nauseum, nor do we need someone calling everyone who disagrees with the TPV a whinger. Make your point and move on. If someone's already made it, save your breath.

[Mark Wolfe]

JetsetBkk:

And what do you think policemen in the UK or US did before they became policemen?

Graduate from the police academy, perhaps?

Someone's never met a rural Sheriff in the US.

I believe cdnvic and I were referring to actual police officers, not security guards or rural sheriffs, but then you knew that.

By the way, was Paul H. charged with assaulting a ladyboy and being in possession of an illegal weapon?

[samran]

I am sure this has been covered, but I am terribly lazy and refuse to read through 45 pages of argumentative posts. I am wondering how well the tourist police volunteers actually speak Thai. If they are helping with translation it seems they ought to be able to speak and understand Thai at a high level and should also be able to read the police reports.

Actually, if this requirement were set, then there would be no volunteers! EG - For the Bangkok liaison translators, all are required to speak Thai to a reasonable degree, but AFAIK I am the only non-Thai person on their team who can read and write reasonable Thai, (and I have big problems reading police reports if the writing is untidy!).

As far as speaking Thai is concerned, it should be the first question asked of a foreign volunteer when they apply for these types of duties. But I know from personal knowledge that the number who speak passable Thai is perhaps 20-25% of the volunteer teams, (remember that volunteers will include Indians, Chinese, as well as 'westerners').

The language skills that volunteers bring to the table does include mother-tongue and fluency in a whole range of European and Asian languages, and that is extremely useful, (anyone speak Iranian?? Please volunteer!!). But the need to understand and speak passable Thai is also of paramount importance.

I should commend some volunteers who can speak several languages, (Patrick, team supervisor in Phuket is fluent in about 6 languages, including English, Thai, French, Hebrew, Italian and Spanish). I can manage English, Thai and French, with some basic German, Spanish and currently learning Burmese!).

Simon

sounds like you are making a positive contribution, and more importantly getting a lot out of it. Good on you.

[JUDAS]

This really could go on forever with many members seemingly entrenched in their position. So far though, I'm of the opinion the the volunteers do a reasonably good job but, I'm open minded about it. As far as the volunteers allegedly overstepping their powers in regards to investigating/detaining or interviewing suspects, is anyone actually aware of a situation where this has ended up being detrimental to the accused/ detained etc? We are all human, and occasionally make decisions which are not strictly correct but done with the best of intentions.

Complaints regarding the colour of uniform are becoming somewhat tedious ( though everyone is entitled to their view ) I honestly can't see how the colour of a uniform can be described as scary or intimidating. These guys wear black, so what?, the KKK wear white and I don't find their dress intimidating ( actually think it's comical ) what is scary/intimidating, is what the organization, the KKK, stands for. With regards to how they walk or conduct themselves, I expect a police volunteer to have a certain air of confidence and authority, if I want weak and timid I'll visit the local librarian

I for one would be happy to have the volunteers available in the unlikely event my parents ever visited Pattaya and required police assistance.

P.S. In hindsight perhaps using the KKK as a uniform example is a bit extreme but I'm sure you understand the point I'm making.

[Zodiac]

I notice Miller is involved in some news service in Pattaya. What is the betting that the "news" from them will never criticise these black shirts.

I wonder why?!

Yes and it gets worse. In one episode HM smartly removes a troublesome person from outside a bar named "Secrets".

Take a look at the Pattaya Ones web site for which HM says he is the boss.

A prominent advertiser on that web site is none other than this Secrets Bar.

Not difficult to connect the dots, is it.......

[cdnvic]

Two personal attacks deleted, one poster sent off for a couple weeks. I wasn't joking about the previous warning. Personal attacks against members will not be tolerated.

[uncletom]

How I came to view this topic was to look at the red stamp for TV discussion.

I met a volunteer Farang police assistant in Chiang Mai. Do you know what he was doing when I met him? He was seeing his mia noi. Of course he spoke really good Thai, but he was in uniform, drinking a beer, and had just come out from shagging his 2nd wife.

As for choking people, that is a no no. As for pepper spraying lady boys; watch your self, Pattaya is an extremely down and dirty place and you might find yourself having been followed home and in a bad way or worse, depending on how much you have ticked off someone. Easy to get hurt or die in Thailand and that black outfit isn't a suit of armor. You should understand that by now. Pepper spraying lady boys. Is that assitant Farang crazy?

Interesting topic though. My opinion is, if they feel the need to volunteer, up to them, but do not bug me one iota, and all is happy.

[ProfessorFart]

Only answerable to the Tourist Police?

Is it any wonder that one of the main reasons for the unpopularity of this scheme is the arrogance of the TPV?

[TAWP]

Britmaveric:

Where did anyone search a food cart? Are you even watching the same show?

A russian tourist reported to them that a thai vendor was selling drugs from a food cart. Howard went along with his thai counterpart.

Then Howard went to INVESTIGATE and INSPECT, which according to the central rules is forbidden.

5. Volunteers should not be involved in activities such as arrests, interrogations, investigations or inspections

This idea that each locale has its own rules is suspect in the extreme. IF it is true, then the whole endeavor is pretty willy-nilly

You are confused.

Anyone living in Thailand is allowed to go and look at something.

And INSPECTION is something else, and is not in regards to looking, but determining something for example in regards to the road safety level of an vehicle.

Or are you saying that the TPV have less rights than normal citizens?

Some posts here are really ridiculous.

[uncletom]

Only answerable to the Tourist Police?

Is it any wonder that one of the main reasons for the unpopularity of this scheme is the arrogance of the TPV?

Amen ProfessorFart!

That is about the size of it, or shall I say the size of their ego's.

Uncletom

[TAWP]

Only answerable to the Tourist Police?

Is it any wonder that one of the main reasons for the unpopularity of this scheme is the arrogance of the TPV?

Amen ProfessorFart!

That is about the size of it, or shall I say the size of their ego's.

Uncletom

Talk about building hens out of feathers...

He said he was answerable to the police (above him in chain of command), not posters on ThaiVisa.

Which is true.

Now you guys turn around and pretend it means that they think they can do anything in the world, and will try it, until someone in the Police protest...

*sigh*

Yes, many of you sound jealous. You have nothing and bring nothing to the table and are jealous of those that do.

[cdnvic]

OK, lets not get in a fight here. Try discussing the show, rather than the existence of the TPV, which isn't at all dependant on the opinions expressed here. We actually have the show's producer and some of it's "cast" present, so lets use this unique opportunity to have a productive discussion, rather than just another boring internet bitchfest.

[hm1973]

OK, lets not get in a fight here. Try discussing the show, rather than the existence of the TPV, which isn't at all dependant on the opinions expressed here. We actually have the show's producer and some of it's "cast" present, so lets use this unique opportunity to have a productive discussion, rather than just another boring internet bitchfest.

You are certainly earning your keep with this thread!!!

[cdnvic]

Well, I'd like it to survive the series so we can have an ongoing discussion. It's unusual to have a chance for people in the audience to interact this directly with persons on film and behind the camera, especially in a two way exchange.