Police To Enforce Isa At Red-shirt Rally, As Troops Stand By

[webfact]

Police to enforce ISA at red-shirt rally, as troops stand by

By Piyanart Srivalo,

Bancha Khaengkhan

The Nation

Published on September 16, 2009

Police to enforce ISA at red-shirt rally, as troops stand by

The Cabinet yesterday resolved to impose the Internal Security Act between Friday and next Tuesday in Dusit district to cope with a rally by the red shirts on Saturday, in which tens of thousands were expected to take part.

Panitan Wattanayagorn, PM's deputy secretary-general and acting Government Spokesman, said the ISA would be enforced mainly by police, with military officers acting as their helpers.

He said representatives from local and foreign media organisations would be allowed to observe the workings of the command set up to oversee the law's enforcement. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs would inform all foreign embassies of this, he added.

"The government received reports there will be more participants at this protest than in previous gatherings. The Isoc will meet [today] to assess the situation and the figures,"

Panitan said, referring to the Internal Security Operations Command. He added that Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban would act as head of the command set up to oversee the ISA enforcement.

Panitan said security agencies' intelligence showed more than 30,000 people would take part in the upcoming rally, compared to 20,000 to 30,000 when the red shirts submitted their petition last month seeking a royal pardon for fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra. "The figure will be less than 100,000," he said.

He also said the ISA imposition was necessary, as there were attempts to incite violence by surrounding state agencies and the houses of important figures.

Suthep, deputy premier in charge of security affairs, said yesterday the ISA could be renewed after five days of enforcement, if needed.

He said initially the ISA would cover only Bangkok's Dusit district, but the area could be extended if protesters took their demonstration elsewhere, such as the Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

He said an Isoc intelligence report pointed to attempts to create political chaos in Bangkok and obstruct the government's work in order to pressure the prime minister to resign or dissolve the House of Representatives.

The deputy premier also rejected as groundless rumours of a coup in the near future.

"I am in charge of security affairs and I have heard of nobody planning a coup. If there is a coup, I will walk naked [as I] step down. I believe no groups [in the military] want to stage a coup now," Suthep said.

An organiser of the upcoming red-shirt rally, Jatuporn Phrompan, said yesterday the protest would go ahead as planned, despite the ISA imposition.

He said the rally would take place at the Royal Plaza in Dusit district, with protesters expected to spill to the nearby residence of Privy Council president General Prem Tinsulanonda.

Royal Plaza is in the neighborhood of state agencies, such as Government House, Parliament and the Army headquarters.

Jatuporn, who is an MP from the opposition Pheu Thai Party, said the demonstration was expected to end at midnight on Saturday.

-- The Nation 2009/09/16

[Thai at Heart]

I

f there is a coup, I will walk naked [as I] step down. I believe no groups [in the military] want to stage a coup now," Suthep said.

After a statement like that, who would want a coup? Suthep naked? What a gruesome thought.

That definitely would be an event to miss. Please NO COUP!

[Thailand]

Sad to resort to such draconian measures to control crowds of 30K?

Will certainly be seen as overkill by the foreign media which in turn will affect a Thailand that desperately needs a good pr rating to retain any credence in the eyes of tourists and foreign embassies.

Standard crowd control should have been called for- what will the govt actually call in to effect when there are real problems.

Anyway, hopefully all runs smoothly and everybody on each side of the divide goes home happy and healthy.

[animatic]

More than 30k, but less than 100k... is 69,999 people milling about.

Not an inconsequential number to keep in line.

Please lets never have to see this guy neckid!

Though there are likely some who WOULD like this just to embarrass him in any way possible.

There IS NO Standard Crowd Control here, only littering and parking fines.

As long as it is monitored by international press, they will use it in moderation.

This is draconian only in possibilities, and so far having been used before,

it is less so in probabilities. Especially with watchers close at hand.

This is more a problem because of going to Prem's house, which shouldn't really be allowed.

Except they can't got to prem's office because that is some where they don't dare go for obvious reasons.

He won't be there, for sure, but he is the demonized point man for the red anger at Thjaksin's going bye bye.

If they are for democracy and equaly rights and opportunity, then why should they be so much on

Prem's case for Thaksin been sent from the field? It is a misdirection to say they are only for Democracy,

when their actions point in other directions much of the time.

[Scott]

I generally don't trust the gov't--neither mine nor the Thai gov't. I don't like the idea of the ISA being put in effect, but hopefully the gov't has a good reason for it. I also hope it isn't misused.

[Ricardo]

I certainly agree that we must all want this to be a peaceful legal protest, with no attempts to whip up violence by the organisers, or equally any provocation by un-named third-parties.

However the clearly-stated expectation that the protest will spill over, to be partly-outside Khun Prem's home, surely means that the government is forced to take at least limited security-precautions. They can't forget where this has led, in the past, and must be prepared in case Red-Shirts start ripping-up paving-stones again. Nobody wants to see scenes like those again.

It's good news that the government plans, initially at least, to use police rather than the military, to keep things peaceful and ensure the protesters safety.

[Insight]

Perhaps the vote of the police chief today had some impact on choosing the police to enforce the ISA...?

[Meridian007]

Yes, I think we all hope that this will be peaceful and organized.

It isn't surprising to see preparations like this, they are merely preparing to react and contain any illegal activities. This way, the reds have the freedom to protest, and the rest of the city has the freedom to live their lives unaffected by the protesters. In many countries the government would not be so lenient with a group that has threatened murder and violent revolution in the past. Imagine a group with the red's history protesting in America during the Bush jr. era? They would have been allowed to congregate, and then all would have been arrested as a "terrorist threat". In many ways, there is more freedom in Thailand than the west.

[RKASA]

If one uses the WTO at Seattle as an example of warnings gone unheeded, then its easier to see that the ISA because it exists is simply prudent and not intended to be repression.   They have their silly petition pending and the house is looking at possible constitutional changes.  Their best game plan is to cancel at the last minute again.  

[givenall]

Who knows a good rain dance?

We need a heavy rain on the 19^th. It will be a lot less sense the do not get extra pay for the rain duty

[hammered]

If one uses the WTO at Seattle as an example of warnings gone unheeded, then its easier to see that the ISA because it exists is simply prudent and not intended to be repression.   They have their silly petition pending and the house is looking at possible constitutional changes.  Their best game plan is to cancel at the last minute again.  

It is not easy for them to cancel. A rally against the coup is something the reds all agree on. The petition divides them as does constitutional stuff. Right now they are more likely to go for common ground than that which divides. They have gob=ne very quiet on the petition which is the issue that pushed Surachai over the edge and they seem quiet on ammnements too although that debate may be used to fire up anger

[Publicus]

Sad to resort to such draconian measures to control crowds of 30K?

Will certainly be seen as overkill by the foreign media which in turn will affect a Thailand that desperately needs a good pr rating to retain any credence in the eyes of tourists and foreign embassies.

Standard crowd control should have been called for- what will the govt actually call in to effect when there are real problems.

Anyway, hopefully all runs smoothly and everybody on each side of the divide goes home happy and healthy.

Given that few forumists if any like the ISA per se, it's at the least encouraging that it will be applied in limited ways that are clearly defined: Only in the one district, Dusit. Only for four days (perhaps five). Civil authority will be used, i.e., the police rather than the army which only will be on standby while some (presumably) junior tactical officers provide "assistance" on the scene to the police.

It's further encouraging the government has invited media foreign and domestic to access the scene and the assemblage of people.

The government is trying to be restrained and open while simultaneously establishing a state of preparedness given that the particular crowd of demonstrators have a notorious history of violent assembly, to include especially forcing the evacuation in Pattaya of leaders of foreign governments by helicopter from the roof of their venue.

[BSJ]

Lets all hope for plenty of restraint by those with guns.....on both sides.

[Plus]

Isn't it interesting that in a midst of all these debates over ISA, no one mentions the agenda of that rally.

Anyone know what they want? Apart from saving Thaksin's ass?

I've read several scenarios of how it could develop, by PAD and by journalists, and no one mentioned any red ideas at all.

I think it's a sign that the movement lost all democratic credibility, if it ever had any.

[Thailand]

Isn't it interesting that in a midst of all these debates over ISA, no one mentions the agenda of that rally.

Anyone know what they want? Apart from saving Thaksin's ass?

I've read several scenarios of how it could develop, by PAD and by journalists, and no one mentioned any red ideas at all.

I think it's a sign that the movement lost all democratic credibility, if it ever had any.

Perhaps because the thread is about the implementation of the ISA.

But maybe , just maybe- the rally is about, among other things, free and fair elections- that would be democratic would it not?

PAD & the media make no mention of that I believe, only stirring up the potential of pending violence.

I am sure we all hope it goes off peacefully and that the pre rally hype was just that.

[way2muchcoffee]

Isn't it interesting that in a midst of all these debates over ISA, no one mentions the agenda of that rally.

This is an interesting point. I've recently been considering a new thread in general along these lines. I'd like to know more broadly, what is the red agenda? Obviously there is Thaksin and recovering his position and money, but what is their platform? What issues do they support? What ideals do they strive to live by? What changes would they legislate if given the opportunity to control the government? What is the party line?

I can't really determine clear answers to these questions. The only think I can work out is that they want Thaksin back. They want Thaksin to have his money back. They want TRT back. They want to change the constitution. Beyond these highly sensitive issues, what do they really stand for?

[TAWP]

But maybe , just maybe- the rally is about, among other things, free and fair elections- that would be democratic would it not?

Please let us know when the reds and their paymaster has ever been in favour of free and fair elections.

[Thailand]

But maybe , just maybe- the rally is about, among other things, free and fair elections- that would be democratic would it not?

Please let us know when the reds and their paymaster has ever been in favour of free and fair elections.

Haven't you got your colors mixed up?

[Old Man River]

I generally don't trust the gov't--neither mine nor the Thai gov't. I don't like the idea of the ISA being put in effect, but hopefully the gov't has a good reason for it. I also hope it isn't misused.

I would think what happened in Pattaya and soon after in Bangkok (during Songkran) would be good enough reasons. If this had happened in your country or mine, the Red Shirts would already be finished.

[animatic]

But maybe , just maybe- the rally is about, among other things, free and fair elections- that would be democratic would it not?

Please let us know when the reds and their paymaster has ever been in favour of free and fair elections.

Haven't you got your colors mixed up?

Not in the least.

[TAWP]

But maybe , just maybe- the rally is about, among other things, free and fair elections- that would be democratic would it not?

Please let us know when the reds and their paymaster has ever been in favour of free and fair elections.

Haven't you got your colors mixed up?

Not in the least.

Unless you define election fraud, voter intimidation and prohibiting candidates to appear safely as a sign of free and fair elections.

And it doesn't matter if anyone else is doing it.

One cannot behave like a crook and then claim the moral high ground just because one says one want to be a good person.

Judge on action, not on words.

[jayboy]

I generally don't trust the gov't--neither mine nor the Thai gov't. I don't like the idea of the ISA being put in effect, but hopefully the gov't has a good reason for it. I also hope it isn't misused.

I would think what happened in Pattaya and soon after in Bangkok (during Songkran) would be good enough reasons. If this had happened in your country or mine, the Red Shirts would already be finished.

Whether you like it or not the Red Shirts represent a major political force which one way or another will stamp its mark.You talk about what would have happened to the Red Shirts in another country, with the implication they would have been crushed.What an ignorant remark.Yes, the Reds would not have been allowed to disrupt a regional summit, although a minor offence compared with the criminal occupation of an international airport.More to the point in another country the political agenda doesn't allow military coups, and the red viewpoint would have much more mainstream representation.Even now I suspect it represents a majority view in Thailand.Absurd you think? See what happens in a fairly conducted election.

[Plus]

Isn't it interesting that in a midst of all these debates over ISA, no one mentions the agenda of that rally.

Anyone know what they want? Apart from saving Thaksin's ass?

I've read several scenarios of how it could develop, by PAD and by journalists, and no one mentioned any red ideas at all.

I think it's a sign that the movement lost all democratic credibility, if it ever had any.

Perhaps because the thread is about the implementation of the ISA.

But maybe , just maybe- the rally is about, among other things, free and fair elections- that would be democratic would it not?

Yes, this thread is about ISA, but reds right to protest is mentioned in every post, too. So, what are they going to protest about?

Is it really about elections? I don't know, I thought they didn't accept 2007 constitution and wanted to amend it first. Do they have a position on those amendments that are currently debated in parliament?

Or do they want elections before the amendment process is complete.

This part is really confusing.

[Plus]

Whether you like it or not the Red Shirts represent a major political force which one way or another will stamp its mark.

Care to elaborate what political force they represent and why do you think it's major?

I've just asked about it, no one seems to know what their agenda is, kinda awkward for a "major political force".

Even on the pardon issue, widely supported in the society, they could only muster 3.5 million signatures. That's less than 10% of the electorate.