bonobo Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 To answer another part of your OP, the why Thai women part, I can only offer a few opinions. Some men are completely enamored of all things Thai. They come here and immerse themselves in the culture, and that most likely includes finding a Thai wife as part of this fascination/immersion. Some men are older, divorced from women from their own country, and tend to blame their own country's women as a whole, some sort of cultural defect which takes any blame away from the man or his ex-wife. Thailand offers a new opportunity, a fresh chance at happiness which he is convince he can't get back home. Some men quite frankly like younger, more attractive women than he can get back home. How many 50-year-old men back in farang-land date 25-year-old women? Some men do not want long conversations, they don't want discussion which lead to conflict and fighting. For them, having a companion with whom they can't have deep conversation is a plus. They are more happy with comfort rather than a deep, mental relationship. Some men come to Thailand for work. As this being Thailand, there are many more Thai women to date than foreign. So it is natural that they date more Thai woman than foreign women. And if a person dates enough, he or she will will probably and eventually fall into a situation where love might blossom, where marriage seems like the right move. Everyone is different. All our motives are different. Hopefully, we can all find our personal brass ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelepulse Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Commnication is key in any relationship, business, personal or otherwise. I sure am glad my wife speaks great English and is educated so we can converse 100% of the time in this International language, both here in Thailand and abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 I have no figures to back this up, but my gut feeling is that there is a significant percentage of men here in Thailand who are quite happy with their partners, and this happiness is not based on the age/attractiveness of them. Why don't you post the same thing on your post above, and see what responses you will get from this forum? I was talking about men on this forum mostly. Who are you guys mostly, and why complaining soo much?....at the point similar to endless whining! NO NO...IT NOT MY FAULT........NO NO NEVER ME....IT'S HER HER, THEM THEM, THAI PEOPLE..... I know many thais do read here too, but don't want to voice their opinions,...don't know why and some of the things we have been reading so far about thai women......well well well... and seems like we do have a brothel in every sois here in thailand, and we all are that EASY.....only with a few notes slapping on the head. Just voicing my own little opinion here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhar Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Just out of interest what nationality are you and Mr. Mooncake? It would appear from your posts that you are not a native English speaker (yet you suggest you communicate in English with your husband), so perhaps you are also in a bilingual relationship and thus should be aware of any linguistic difficulties facing such relationships. I am 100% thai, female with boobs and all that .....born, raised, schooled in thailand - thai schools, did my university in the US Mr. Mooncake......dutch/french/among others We communicate in English 100% of the time - no problem for either of us whatsoever. That's why our relationship runs quite smoothly That's why I do have some questions in my earlier posts...of How do some of you manage it, w/ 2 languages and neither of you good in another's? My wife and I communicate 100% of the time in English, and she did her MA in the US, blah blah blah. To say she or I are perfect is not an accurate statement. There will always be a "faster gun," and if you do not think your husband is not aware of that.... you are living in a land of pink bubbles. Realizing that life is not perfect, and sometimes it is really "as good as it gets" is the challenge. Why did we get married.... it doesn't matter, the point is we are married, and we have to move on from that point. Seems to me you use a broad brush to paint your pictures. and just to let you know, men find vanity to be very boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazygourmet Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 This is the kind of topic that could get me suspended again but not today Anyways, stereotypes and preconcieved notions aside - I fell in love with my wife because she is smart (sometimes too much), witty, caring and has a deep interest in exploring different cultures. She puts up with my quirks and faults (too many to list here). Oh not to forget that she has a love of good food like me, regardless of where it comes from - good food is good food, no matter the country of origin. Although she is cooking-challenged, thankfully my love of preparing food seems to match well with her love of consuming it. And last but not least, from what I have seen since her pregnancy and now 4 months after the birth of our son, her dedication, self sacrifice and love of him only reconfirms what I saw in her in the first place. Hope this cheers you up Mooncake. Nice one James, respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozsamurai Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 oz..im sorry, but that just seems like a pretty quick cover up...but anyway, regardless.. it does highlight that there are often negative assumptions made regarding western women around here. Although most of the topics on this forum are made by men, with various different themes, including some similar to the OP's..as soon as a women makes a post like this its labeled "hysterics of western womens' ideals/paradigms" being "jammed down [mens] throat" Edit: sorry off-topic. When i read your OP mooncake, when it didnt have any replies, i thought "this is going to be interesting..." 2) There are some things in life that do not need to be analyzed, love is one of them. Me think you must be living in a pink bubble. Don't you want to know why she loves you? So you just get married if you feel "right"? You're pulling my legs if you seriously did not do some analyzing her out before you marry her. Who wouldn't here, must be nutz. I think we "all" do, with more or less and to certain extent. The ones that do with less, seem to have the most problems later on, and many of those problems do get on thaivisa, if you care to read many pages back. So why didn't they take time in cultivating their relationship? Why in such hurry jumping in, and complaining about this & that, and everything & everybody else here later on thaivisa, except their own bad decision to begin with? Reading the geneal forum here many pages back, it seems most of you here think you are ALL THAT, and always the fault of thailand, thai people, and your girls........ No your rebuttal #2 is too weak for me. Eek, you were right it was an over simplified response to someone who I think is genuinely only here to stir the pot, thus the someone has to say it line..... Marriage in any form is a compromise for a greater happiness, you accept and re-evaluate your expectations of your partner constantly as life and circumstance change, this is how it is, I do not live in a pink bubble. Perhaps English is not your native language but you missed a vital word in my comment.....OVER.....did I say no analysis... Is the OP claiming that she is Thai or Farang? Is she applying the blanket comments to all Asian women as she did with all Caucasian men? If she can clarify which segment of the community she is referring to then I may formulate a better response, I have nothing to do today, so I may as well be todays patsy!! Oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I have no figures to back this up, but my gut feeling is that there is a significant percentage of men here in Thailand who are quite happy with their partners, and this happiness is not based on the age/attractiveness of them. Why don't you post the same thing on your post above, and see what responses you will get from this forum? I was talking about men on this forum mostly. Who are you guys mostly, and why complaining soo much?....at the point similar to endless whining! NO NO...IT NOT MY FAULT........NO NO NEVER ME....IT'S HER HER, THEM THEM, THAI PEOPLE..... I know many thais do read here too, but don't want to voice their opinions,...don't know why and some of the things we have been reading so far about thai women......well well well... and seems like we do have a brothel in every sois here in thailand, and we all are that EASY.....only with a few notes slapping on the head. Just voicing my own little opinion here. It might be because many of the happy men spend more of their time with their wives and not so much here on TV! Happy people usually don't feel the need to vent, while unhappy people often to need to vent. Posting here is one way to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazygourmet Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Commnication is key in any relationship, business, personal or otherwise. I sure am glad my wife speaks great English and is educated so we can converse 100% of the time in this International language, both here in Thailand and abroad. My partner English skills are much more better than mine, just annoying sometime when she is correcting me... But hopefully, never in public! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 This is the kind of topic that could get me suspended again but not today Anyways, stereotypes and preconcieved notions aside - I fell in love with my wife because she is smart (sometimes too much), witty, caring and has a deep interest in exploring different cultures. She puts up with my quirks and faults (too many to list here). Oh not to forget that she has a love of good food like me, regardless of where it comes from - good food is good food, no matter the country of origin. Although she is cooking-challenged, thankfully my love of preparing food seems to match well with her love of consuming it. And last but not least, from what I have seen since her pregnancy and now 4 months after the birth of our son, her dedication, self sacrifice and love of him only reconfirms what I saw in her in the first place. Hope this cheers you up Mooncake. Nice one James, respect Maybe the passing of Keith Floyd yesterday touched my soft spots. Please don't take my early morning sweet postings to heart though mate, as you generally see throughout any given day, as we enter the end of days my patience and sweetness seem to evaporate like that of our perpetual thunder storms that build and build each afternoon before the thunderbolts take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Edit: sorry off-topic. When i read your OP mooncake, when it didnt have any replies, i thought "this is going to be interesting..." haha you spoke too soon, so I see. U know I have never talked to myself before, except in the ladies forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanForbes Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 For the very reasons you mentioned, mooncake, are the reasons why I stay single. I don't disagree with you at all, and in fact agree with most of your points. I can't think of a lot of reasons why couples should stay together if they are not on the same wave length. About the only reason I can see for a man and a woman to live together is to raise children. After that the two species are not much alike. As the book says... Women are from Venus and men are from Mars. I'm a better cook than most women and am quite adept at managing my finances. But, I'm not great at house keeping, or at least not a fanatic about it. And, it doesn't really matter as I'm the only one living here. I'm heterosexual, but if I wanted a partner to live with I'd probably pick another man. We would have more in common. Things I miss when living alone as compared to when I was happy in love with my second wife are the lazy, Sunday mornings we spent together while I made breakfast and we sat on the porch in the sun. It was waking up to a beautiful woman beside me and making love slowly and passionately. It was also nice going out as a couple with other friends. I do miss that, but, as far as the rest of it goes I have more in common with men. I certainly get more sex than I did when I was married and it costs a whole lot less in the long run. Men who get married for sex are just fools. Women who marry just for money will never be fulfilled. But, everyone has their own idea of what they want in a relationship. Only a small percentage of people are truly happy after 10 years or so. The facts remain that over 50% of first marriages fail in western cultures, and over 60% of second marriages fail... due mostly to baggage carried over from previous relationships. I don't have all the answers and can only speak from my own experiences, and those that have been told to me by friends. Statistics are for losers and I only wish the best for everyone. There are exceptions to almost every rule, so those willing to gamble on marriage then I say... fill your boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) yea....AHOY CHIP CHOY to u 2! meh why so late in showing up jaa If you don't want to read, then mind your own business too. Me still think this is such a quality thread we have had in a few pages here! THIS-IS-THE-ONE-TO-BE IN......for now anyway Edited September 16, 2009 by bonobo removed quote of a deleted post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 ok since I'm still here, I may as well say a bit more wha's also in my mind, just in case I won't be here by tomorrow Another thing that gets me and my friends fire up is "the sinsot" thing. For those who don't want to pay, why pay anyway and come over here....kicky, screaming, and moaning about IT! Acting like a little child when most of you are over 40!...LOL In my group, no farang husband has ever paid any sinsot. They are all educated from the west....helloo, and some in thailand too. Most of us have been moving with the time alrealdy. Why don't you all stand your ground, if you don't want to pay?....ask them why is a one way culture only?...SPEAK UP!! What are you so afriad of ...by voicing your opinion? ok back to on going topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 That is a good one, as we are all smart on other fields. Generally i just look for someone who is logical (ok hard to find logical woman ). I just talk a lot with the person and hope to find out that way if they are smart or not. I know its not easy but cant hand out IQ tests . Also i look a lil bit at their education and their job. I prefer to find someone not too far off from my own intelligence, when i was real young 20 or so i was with a dutch girl and there was a big difference in intelligence and that kinda ended the relationship after the love was gone. But i must say that was a big difference. (not that i am that smart). I think in general after some long conversations you will know if someone is smart or not, but it of course depends what you talk about. Yes I feel the same way too. I want to be with someone who is very logical on things and thinks before he speaks. A good listener as well as good talker, that is diff than a talkative person. I like a man of substance....not fishy flashy bla bla bla....but the ones who can walk the walk, talk the talk, and do the do. I think having the similar intellegence and sharing values will ultimately outlast everything else when you both are on the walking stick. Bed hopping men/women and whirlwind romance is not my cup of tea also, and it says alot about the core personality of the person. I think love blossom with time and time will ultimately reveal what is in the shadow. But from reading TV here, seems some do not want to take the time for whatever reason that might be, while some don't really have much time left. Best wishes in your relationship, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 ok since I'm still here, I may as well say a bit more wha's also in my mind, just in case I won't be here by tomorrow Another thing that gets me and my friends fire up is "the sinsot" thing. For those who don't want to pay, why pay anyway and come over here....kicky, screaming, and moaning about IT! Acting like a little child when most of you are over 40!...LOL In my group, no farang husband has ever paid any sinsot. They are all educated from the west....helloo, and some in thailand too. Most of us have been moving with the time alrealdy. Why don't you all stand your ground, if you don't want to pay?....ask them why is a one way culture only?...SPEAK UP!! What are you so afriad of ...by voicing your opinion? ok back to on going topic... I think there is a logical reason for this. In most western cultures, men do not "pay" for the privilege of marriage. In fact, a dowry is much more the cultural norm (at least in days gone by). So Joe meets Nok, they fall in love, and they decide to marry. When the issue of sinsod comes up, there could be a perception in Joe that Nok only cares about money, that this is a financial transaction, not a partnership based on love. So you have love and affection from Joe now waring with fears that this love and affection is not being returned, that he is only considered as a means to an end, that end being money. Just because someone likes Thailand, likes the culture, likes the people, does not mean that he feels comfortable with every single aspect of that culture, or that he even understands every aspect of it. And if he is told that sinsod is a requirement, as some men have posted here they were told, then you have his love and excitement on getting married faced with the huge obstacle, in his mind, of "commercializing" it. And trying to be a good prospective husband, trying to show he can embrace Thai culture, and wanting to marry the woman, he pays it. But that does not mean he has to like it, or that he feels comfortable doing that. Anyway, that would be my take on it. I have never read this nor heard anyone say this, but it makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longstebe Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Thai women good at servicing,says who? What do I think she says about me behind my back, That I never hit her, I don't drink everyday, I open doors for her, oh and I'm a handsome young chap . What do I bring to the table, all of the above and a lorra lorra love. Oh I'm 34 by the way. I like Thailand. I prefer Asian over western women. As for people complaining about things in Thailand,I think it comes natural for anyone who has left there home country to live in another (visa's,language,food etc..) I lived in Holland,Some of the dutch ways pissed me off but you get on with it. Same with the U.S. That doesn't mean to say I dislike the people. Surely you must have had something to moan about whilst living in another country?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBlueEyes Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Here are my answers to all the OP's questions.. So are you "all that" too? Yes! Howcome I seldom come across the words…..smart, funny, she's my best friend…etcs? Ok-Here are my words-my gf is smart, funny, and my best friend. what do you think the gf/or wife says about you to her friends? I know what my gf says about me as her gf's tell me what she says about me which is that I am wonderful most of the time but sometimes a pain in the neck ! ( I agree totally with her assessment! ) What did you bring into the marriage, beside money mostly?…Because it seems you think you're "a prize catch" and "all that"! I brought exactly the same things into my relationship that my gf brought which is sense of humour, attractiveness, intelligence, education, money, and "all that".. And from my general impression here on TV - both directly and indirectly, that "most" of you just want… a bedmate, a maid, or a butler….and nothing else? A bedmate and a maid sounds good for starters but for longevity the list has to go on and on... Is that why you like "thai" women, because they are good at "servicing"?…don't care much for a brain or good communicating ability or sharing the same values & belief or outlooks in life? I don't know what Thai women that you hang with but the Thai women that I socialize with are all smart and very well educated and have excellent communication skills in both English and Thai. They are not in any way subservient and do share many of the same similar values and outlooks on life. This is not meant to be a funny or sarcastic question, but a genuine enquire wants to know type of….. How do you define the word "marriage" and your view of the life partner?…and why with the thai woman, in particular? Even though some of you don't seem to like Thailand much. Marriage is great but definitely not for everybody. Finding that special someone to share your life with is probably the most important thing of all. Even though the current love of my life happens to be a Thai girl, I have to admit that I have no special preference since in my experiences, I have have had many wonderful relationships with women of different cultures all over the world. Well OK-maybe currently I might be a wee bit partial towards Thai women ! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Personally i find Thai men more attractive than Western men also, but that doesnt mean i no longer have decent manners towards western men, It's quite diff than me. But I like thai men as uncles and my father....they are soo easy to please esp if you are a girl, you can get anything you heart desires. However I like western men better ...as a partner that is, thai men just don't do for me. I'm too assertive and out spoken for many thai men to bring back to their parents even for an inspection stage..LOL I have found that thai men tend to be too clingy and muted at times when he needs to speak up. Sometimes it's just too much feeling into their thinking, before he acts what I thought should be the simple straight forward logical solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Surely you must have had something to moan about whilst living in another country?????? Not really besides high taxes, and 3 ft of snow sometimes. Most things are cheaper than in thailand, more varities, and I can get them at a click of my fingertip...wait few days and whah laa.... I don't miss thailand much, as my parents come and visit me quite often ever since I was at the university, and there are also webcam, skype, internet to communicate to each other. And I'm fairly adaptable to most things and people in the west. This's why sometimes I find it hard to understand of all the moanings of farangs in thailand about their home country. Just don't understand what are they so bitter about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOTAI Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I suppose there had to come a time when I could no longer resist the urge to respond to the post on this forum. I have been reading here for a couple of months now and this is my first post, please be gentle with me. Why did we/I get married? Don't really know. I met my wife in Thailand 9 years ago and we seemed to get along very well with each other. I then returned home and we organised for her to come and visit in Australia. We decided to get married probably because we each offered the other an opportunity to get some of the things we both wanted. We have now been married for over 7 years and I am still discovering things about her that confirm I made the right choice. When we first met I had no Thai (still don't) and her English was at best marginal and while it did and still does cause some angst and confusion it provides stimulus to our relationship. How did we solve the problem? She learn English and speaks it with an Aussie accent ( surprises a lot of people). Probably the main difference (to most on TV) was that we developed our relationship here in Aussie. She is the best cook going around, she hates doing the laundry and it doesn't bother me so guess who does it, in other words we compromise. I know she's smart because she has basically taught herself to read English, she has taught me how to save for a future when before I spent as I earned. She managed the business we owned (while I worked fulltime) it employed up to 15 people and turned over more than one and a quarter of a million dollars per annum. Lastly she married me which absolutely confirms her "smartness". What did I get? As a widower of many years, my first wife died aged 21, I got a fantastic companion and as a result of the linguistic and cultural differences an interesting and stimulating life. I now look forward to the future whereas before I had given up on it. I have always tried to point out to my wife that for a relationship to work it needs to be based on trust. She says, "I'm Thai I trust no-one". I initially responded by giving her an example of how much I trusted her, it went like this. Darling if you had a million dollars in your hands and someone had a gun at my head saying "give me the money or I'll shoot him" I know you would give them the money, she laughed!! Yes, at times life can get difficult but if it didn't it would get boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longstebe Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Just out of curiosity, what is cheaper in the States than here. I know the gas is a little more expensive here. I thought you Thais loved the snow? My wife was like a kid in a candy store when she first seen/felt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Just out of curiosity, what is cheaper in the States than here.I know the gas is a little more expensive here. I thought you Thais loved the snow? My wife was like a kid in a candy store when she first seen/felt it. cars, apples, bacon, televisions, computers, good tomatoes, stereos, books, sat tv, olive oil, wine, appliances, .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaihome Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 When we first met I had no Thai (still don't) and her English was at best marginal and while it did and still does cause some angst and confusion it provides stimulus to our relationship. ...Yes, at times life can get difficult but if it didn't it would get boring. I agree that having to put much more effort into communication due to language issues can make it much more interesting and you have to pay a lot of attention to be sure you understand what is being said and what you say is understood. Many people look at this as a frustration rather than a challenge that can actually bring you closer together. TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff978472 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Mooncake, What do you expect from loosers who mostly failed in their own country and flied to Thailand to find that they can buy sex here. These loosers couldn't get any "loyal" wife at home, so they flied here to buy "loyalty" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHammer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Isn't it obvious that some married couples may not have a lot in common on a cultural level but still be together for security, sex and companionship without having to discuss the finer points of culture and philosophy. Newsflash: Men don't like to jabber as much as you ladies, we just pretend to listen. Maybe it fits many men I'm not married and barely able to stay in a relationship, but I don't have a lot in common with many of the Thai women I date, so I'm probably being used for sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHammer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 and seems like we do have a brothel in every sois here in thailand, and we all are that EASY.....only with a few notes slapping on the head. You're pushing your luck here lady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahvail Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 It might be because many of the happy men spend more of their time with their wives and not so much here on TV! Happy people usually don't feel the need to vent, while unhappy people often to need to vent. Posting here is one way to do that. Spot on. Maybe 1 happy person out of 10 will write about this. But about 15 unhappy people out of 10 will write about their problems, rant and vent. Some more than others, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eek Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Personally i find Thai men more attractive than Western men also, but that doesnt mean i no longer have decent manners towards western men, It's quite diff than me. But I like thai men as uncles and my father....they are soo easy to please esp if you are a girl, you can get anything you heart desires. However I like western men better ...as a partner that is, thai men just don't do for me. I'm too assertive and out spoken for many thai men to bring back to their parents even for an inspection stage..LOL I have found that thai men tend to be too clingy and muted at times when he needs to speak up. Sometimes it's just too much feeling into their thinking, before he acts what I thought should be the simple straight forward logical solution. Hah! You definitely haven't met Mr. Eek then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Mooncake,What do you expect from loosers who mostly failed in their own country and flied to Thailand to find that they can buy sex here. These loosers couldn't get any "loyal" wife at home, so they flied here to buy "loyalty" Mate, if you are going to insult somebody at least have the manners to spell it right. For a minute there I thought you were calling me loose - which I surely am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I think my wife says good things about me when talking to her friends, such as: "He is so handsome, and has a sexual body" "He is such a good lover, it was hard to come to work this morning" "He has a massive face because he paid 1 million baht sin sot" "I would be surprised if he could not walk on water" "He can speak Thai a little, but what he can speak, he speaks it the best." along with other things along those lines...... I brought to the marriage: A great husband, A great father, Love, care and understanding, Warmth, comfort and security, Great conversation. On a final note, all I really wanted was a bedmate and a maid, but I found so much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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