Acceptable Source For 40k Family Income?

[billd766]

But that was only because you had the requirements for retirement extension of stay (65k pension/income or 800k in account or combination meeting the 800k level). They do prefer the retirement as it lowers the investigation paper/foot work.

I understand that but I wish they had told me.

Back in July the GBP was around 55 and this afternoon it was a fraction less than 53.

Back in February however it was just over 47.

Ouch.

[edwinchester]

PMK. What did you do come renewal this year? Did you extend using the criteria you quoted? June 2008 is not relevant. It's what happened this year that is. I extended in October 2008 using my wife's income. Now I can't.

I would be interested to know the answer to this too as my understanding is that this option ceased to be available for some time.

[Lite Beer]

PMK. What did you do come renewal this year? Did you extend using the criteria you quoted? June 2008 is not relevant. It's what happened this year that is. I extended in October 2008 using my wife's income. Now I can't.

I would be interested to know the answer to this too as my understanding is that this option ceased to be available for some time.

The rule changed on 25th November 2008. It now has to be the Husbands money/income.

[mca]

The rule changed on 25th November 2008. It now has to be the Husbands money/income.

As in my extension having to change from wife's income last year to my income/bank account only earlier this week.. End of story.

[JimGant]

I was informed that no other income e,g. an investor / business owner / rental from investment properties is not acceptable.

Is proving income for marriage extensions different than for retirement extensions? In the latter, you have your embassy verify your "cash flow." In most cases, Immigration accepts this without further justification of source. Isn't this the same as for extensions based on marriage -- or is Immigration asking for source justification?

And it really isn't "income" you're justifying. The US statement verifies that you receive X amount of dollars monthly from "US Government and/or other sources." Nothing about 'income' is verified. So, your "other sources" could be milking down your savings account -- or living off loans from Aunt Martha. And, actually, if this is getting you by, until Social Security and/or a pension kicks in, this seemingly would perfectly satisfy what the Thais really want -- which is a designated positive 'cash flow' that meets their standards.

To limit cash flows to 'income' could really get into a fur ball with Immigration. "Would that be 'gross income, net income, earned or unearned income' officer?"

Over the years here on this forum we've seen that gross income is acceptable by the Thais (and also by no less than the very-thorough British Embassy, where showing receipts for gross rentals, for example, would qualify). I'm sure also that you don't have to cross your fingers when you attest to the US authorities that the monthly dollars you receive are gross dollars.

But, somehow, it must be a minor footnote that after paying taxes, upkeep, the mortgage, insurance, alimony, whatever -- your disposable cash flow in Thailand is zilch. Fortunately, probably too tough a nut to crack -- allowing creative financing to exist.

Unless -- back to my original question for marriage extensions: Is Immigration demanding to see source documentation for your stated 'income?' And even worse -- are they somehow deriving "take home" values?

[thaiphoon]

The process of verifying income is the same whether for retirement or marriage extension. Immigration does, however, reserve the right to ask for whatever documentation they want. They know that the US and some other embassies just get a sworn declaration from the applicant and the income letter is issued on that basis. There have been cases of immigration asking for paperwork supporting the embassy letter in such instances and yes, I guess one could be in problems proving one's income if engaging in 'grey activities'. But for embassies requiring sight of income records, such a situation would not exist; if the embassy is not satisfied with the information provided by the applicant then the income letter would not be issued. Pension/salary from abroad/property rental income/bank interest/dividends etc are generally regarded as acceptable sources of income by non 'sworn declaration' embassies (but is up to them) if the appropriate supporting paperwork can be provided for the relevant extension.

Edited October 8, 2009 by thaiphoon

[JimGant]

Pension/salary from abroad/property rental income/bank interest/dividends etc are generally regarded as acceptable sources of income by non 'sworn declaration' embassies .....

Would that be gross -- or net -- receipts?

The British Embassy, a non 'sworn declaration' embassy,' does accept "gross receipts", probably because they realize it would be too easy to not present all the other related documentation that nets out related expenses. So, in the end, Immigration may not be getting anything more substantive from the British than they're getting from the 'sworn declaration' embassies. At least in terms of disposable cash flow available to the expat in Thailand.

The process of verifying income is the same whether for retirement or marriage extension.

Ok. But it just sounds like Immigration is verifying income statements more often for marriage extensions vice retirement extensions. And, I guess I would too, if a person's relative youth raised a flag as to income sources.

[thaiphoon]

1) Gross income - the UK tax system (as I know) is extremely complicated with taxes covering virtually every different income stream under the sun, which also varies in the final analysis depending upon overall level of tax banding. There is no way the embassy could undertake that task with any degree of accuracy.

2) Only primae facie check of documents at non 'sworn declaration' embassies to my knowledge, so is still possible (but requires more work) to beat the system. But end result is still the same.

3) Personally have seen no evidence of income statements relating to marriage extensions being specifically targeted more.

Edited October 8, 2009 by thaiphoon

[Time Traveller]

I was informed that no other income e,g. an investor / business owner / rental from investment properties is not acceptable.

Is proving income for marriage extensions different than for retirement extensions? In the latter, you have your embassy verify your "cash flow." In most cases, Immigration accepts this without further justification of source. Isn't this the same as for extensions based on marriage -- or is Immigration asking for source justification?

And it really isn't "income" you're justifying. The US statement verifies that you receive X amount of dollars monthly from "US Government and/or other sources." Nothing about 'income' is verified. So, your "other sources" could be milking down your savings account -- or living off loans from Aunt Martha. And, actually, if this is getting you by, until Social Security and/or a pension kicks in, this seemingly would perfectly satisfy what the Thais really want -- which is a designated positive 'cash flow' that meets their standards.

I'm referring to income earned within Thailand. Specifically income from Investments (company shareholding) and from rental of a condominium. In my case I have tax records going back to last century showing clearly what I earned from both sources and the tax I paid each year. However, as I was not working during visa renewal this year this source of income was not accepted by two different immigration officers each of whom explained Thai based income is only accepted when you hold a work permit. As for the letter from the embassy, it seems illogical that I'd have to take my Thai tax records, dividend and rental receipts and translate them to English then go to the embassy to have the embassy approve this, then take it back to immigration when the original documents themselves are in Thai for them to see.

If anyone else in this forum has an experience where Thai based income is acceptable for extension of stay, please let me know the details, name of the immigration officer and what documents did you provide for them.

Thanks

Edited October 8, 2009 by Time Traveller

[JimGant]

However, as I was not working during visa renewal this year this source of income was not accepted by two different immigration officers each of whom explained Thai based income is only accepted when you hold a work permit.

As for the letter from the embassy, it seems illogical that I'd have to take my Tax records translate them to English then go to the embassy to have the embassy approve this, then take it back to immigration when the original documents themselves are in Thai for them to see.

Interesting. You took your income documentation directly to Immigration, with no embassy verification letter? That must have piqued their juices -- and given them a power shot to turn you down.

Yeah, it does seem illogical to take Thai income records to your embassy. But some embassies don't even look at this documentation (US and Aussie, for example). But the fact remains -- the guidance for extensions based on income requires a document from your embassy. Most of the time, this does the trick. Immigration is impressed with the official document that says you meet the such-and-such income requirement. Sometimes (not often, apparently) they'll ask for supporting documentation. But what might happen after that, I've never heard ("You and your imperialist embassy lie!!!). Nah. The official verification of your income normally does the trick.

Now, if you want to sidestep instructions, and plead your income situation directly with Immigration, well, you show what can happen.

Personally have seen no evidence of income statements relating to marriage extensions being specifically targeted more.

Yeah, me neither -- unless there's no embassy verification letter associated.....

[Time Traveller]

However, as I was not working during visa renewal this year this source of income was not accepted by two different immigration officers each of whom explained Thai based income is only accepted when you hold a work permit.

As for the letter from the embassy, it seems illogical that I'd have to take my Tax records translate them to English then go to the embassy to have the embassy approve this, then take it back to immigration when the original documents themselves are in Thai for them to see.

Interesting. You took your income documentation directly to Immigration, with no embassy verification letter? That must have piqued their juices -- and given them a power shot to turn you down.

Yeah, it does seem illogical to take Thai income records to your embassy. But some embassies don't even look at this documentation (US and Aussie, for example). But the fact remains -- the guidance for extensions based on income requires a document from your embassy. Most of the time, this does the trick. Immigration is impressed with the official document that says you meet the such-and-such income requirement. Sometimes (not often, apparently) they'll ask for supporting documentation. But what might happen after that, I've never heard ("You and your imperialist embassy lie!!!). Nah. The official verification of your income normally does the trick.

Now, if you want to sidestep instructions, and plead your income situation directly with Immigration, well, you show what can happen.

Basically the form that Immigration handed to me said in Thai there are 3 options,

1. In the case of bank deposit - 400k bt in bank for at least 60 days

2. In the case of working in thailand - 40k bt per month with evidence of work permit, letter from employer stating salary, tax documents

3. In the case of receiving foreign pension - Letter from embassy stating income is more than 40k bt per month.

The immigration officer(s) following this document down to the letter did not even consider income earned through investments - obviously because it was not written in the above list - and despite my documents including personal yearly tax statement from the previous year plus the witholding tax forms from rent and dividends received.

A second question is how immigration officers never question when the applicant is obviously too young to be receiving a pension could be given an extension based on the embassy letter and point number3 on their list. Obviously this implies the source of the income is not even relevent.

So again if there is anyone that actually received extension based on income (not salary) from within Thailand pls send me a message.

[RubbaJohnny]

What do the british embassy requie please for affidavit

Anyone done it?

[thaiphoon]

What do the british embassy requie please for affidavit

Anyone done it?

The British embassy does not go the affidavit route, but the end result is the same. You would need to present documentary evidence of your income (pension letter/bank interest/rent agreement/bank statements/tax returns etc) and they will issue an income letter.

[Gary A]

If the OP already has all the answers, why did he ask the question in the first place?