Before And After

[gburns57au]

It's obvious that you are not understand Thai langauge as much as you've bragged.

Although I said the example in my posts was formal , not very formal. Every Thais can understand it easily. It's formal and  used in general as well. There is a Thai proverb " สำเนียงส่อภาษา กิริยาส่อสกุล " ,if you can understand this proverb you will get what I'm trying to tell you.

It doesn't mean you don't know these words and Thais shouldn't know these words as you. You mentioned that the words I used were straight from dictionary. I wonder which dictionaries can tell you these sentences. In fact ,I didn't realize that the words I used were formal or not. I often use these words in my diary life with every classes of people. It doesn't look arrogant to use these formal words even with a beggar. I hope you can learn and understand more in Thai language than you know. Thai langauge is more beautiful and flexible than you think. 

Good luck.

Quote from the OP....

"Just looking for the simplest, shortest, easiest way to say it, really! If it's not 100% correct that fine with me as long as I am understood.

I guess that until I improve my Thai I'll just stick to "...set" and "laew-gaw"... "

This is what I am on about.....While some guys here have a very good grasp of the language and some are formally educated.....Most guys here just want to learn enough to be understood in most situations....I dont see the point in confusing them with long winded explanations and definitions.

Meadish, I can agree with some of the things you say....but to try and teach someone something that is above their level of understanding will usually result in that person losing interest or just thinking that it is all too hard. The OP by his question did indicate to his level of learning and it was obvious, at least to me that his level of learning was not at the same level to some of the answers provided. The above quote would indicate that and no offence to the OP is meant here. It needs to be remembered that what is clear and unambiguous to you may just confuse the he11 out of others. May I suggest that the number of proficient Thai speakers and readers here are vastly outnumbered by the people that just want to learn the basics, hence my stand on the Keep It Simple Stupid attitude.

Yoot, I dont think I have bragged about my proficiency in the Thai language, to me, a person that is bragging would be a person that says " I am a master at this and I know more than anyone else" I have never attested to that. I am proficient enough to be able to read and write letters, newspapers etc...The comment I made about your post was somewhat tongue in cheek...so dont take it out of proportion please. As a native Thai speaker, your knowledge of Thai is obviously beyond reproach, but you have had a long time to learn it....and as your English is also of a high proficiency, you are able to give detailed interpretations....but as I said in reply to Meadish....not everybody is of such a high standard of proficiency in Thai as some others are....what to you is natural is bl00dy hard work for others. I understand more about the Thai language than I let on here and I have no trouble understanding what others such as Meadish and yourself have posted. But not all people here are of that level.

[gburns57au]

To gburns: I think you're in a hole and should stop digging now

not at all.....most people just see the hole as getting deeper....I see it as eventually getting somewhere.....for instance if I started digging here and didnt stop....I would eventually end up in England.....

[RamdomChances]

Ok keep it simple , well it has to be from me, no formal education in speaking and I can't read or write Thai eithier so bare with the transliteration

cam sapan leaw khwa- go over the bridge turn right

loei sapan leaw khwa- go past the bridge turn right

There is "correct" thai and "everyday" thai it does'nt hurt on these threads to have both as long as you as say what level it's at. I'm no expert and some times the more detailed explanations I find very helpful. After all its a discussion forum!!

Edited March 31, 2005 by RamdomChances

[yoot]

Beautiful.....straight from the dictionary.....and hardly understood by the average Thai on the street[/size=7]. I can imagine the response...." you speak Thai very good....but we not understand you" 

As you and Yoot have said ..it was a very formal version, and most Thais  [/size=7]on the street would not understand it so quickly as they would be expecting a different answer.....

Sorry, Gburns. I'm not looking for a debate. I wouldn't say a word if you didn't say as these two sentences. That's why I said you've bragged. Because it sounds " I am a master at this and I know more than anyone else" for me.

Before - "gorn", right? But is it for chronological order only or for places as well?

And what about "after"? times? places?

For example -

"I will go to work after breakfast"

"Turn right after the bridge"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, scouser, but do you have anything other than เลย (lo-ei) in your shop?  This one is too difficult to pronouce...

From this quote, there was no any words tell us that this want the simplest words except the word เลย (lo-ei) which I changes to another easy word.

Gawn is a tricky one.....I have only heard it used in relation to time. as to places I think that you wouldnt say "Before I go there, I want to go here" you would say it as "I want to go here then after I want to go there" Using "Laew Gaw"

I did the brekky one before

for the bridge one....

Bai dair saphaan laew gaw bai thang khwa (go as far as bridge then after go right)

Gaw = afterwards, subsequently

Laew gaw = then afterwards

there are more uses of Gaw and Laew gaw and laew itself.....but it would get to complicated and I am all for Keeping it simple.

These were from your posts which I think it will mislead others while the posts of MS and the scouser were more accurate than yours.

To use simple word doesn't mean to use any words you want by don't need to meditate whether it's correct or not.

I couldn't feel that it's worse if any beginners who is learning Thai should learn some words which is more formal but common and easy to understand. If anyone had experiences in dealing with any counter services in Thailand ,they would know the words I used are the same as they often heard.

I'm not serious with your posts about myself,but this is Thai language forum and whoever read in this forum mean they want to study Thai or interested in studying Thai langauge. So I suppose they want to know the proper Thai language more than to know vulgar Thai langauge which somehow may let they got in trouble.

[~G~]

Just to cool things here a bit -

I thank all those who posted their explanations and examples. While simpler sentences might be more useful for my everyday communication right now, it's always good to be aware of other, maybe more formal ways of expression.

Again, appreciating all replies

[gburns57au]

Beautiful.....straight from the dictionary.....and hardly understood by the average Thai on the street[/size=7]. I can imagine the response...." you speak Thai very good....but we not understand you" 

As you and Yoot have said ..it was a very formal version, and most Thais  [/size=7]on the street would not understand it so quickly as they would be expecting a different answer.....

Sorry, Gburns. I'm not looking for a debate. I wouldn't say a word if you didn't say as these two sentences. That's why I said you've bragged. Because it sounds " I am a master at this and I know more than anyone else" for me.

Before - "gorn", right? But is it for chronological order only or for places as well?

And what about "after"? times? places?

For example -

"I will go to work after breakfast"

"Turn right after the bridge"

Thanks, scouser, but do you have anything other than เลย (lo-ei) in your shop?  This one is too difficult to pronouce...

From this quote, there was no any words tell us that this want the simplest words except the word เลย (lo-ei) which I changes to another easy word.

Gawn is a tricky one.....I have only heard it used in relation to time. as to places I think that you wouldnt say "Before I go there, I want to go here" you would say it as "I want to go here then after I want to go there" Using "Laew Gaw"

I did the brekky one before

for the bridge one....

Bai dair saphaan laew gaw bai thang khwa (go as far as bridge then after go right)

Gaw = afterwards, subsequently

Laew gaw = then afterwards

there are more uses of Gaw and Laew gaw and laew itself.....but it would get to complicated and I am all for Keeping it simple.

These were from your posts which I think it will mislead others while the posts of MS and the scouser were more accurate than yours.

To use simple word doesn't mean to use any words you want by don't need to meditate whether it's correct or not.

I couldn't feel that it's worse if any beginners who is learning Thai should learn some words which is more formal but common and easy to understand. If anyone had experiences in dealing with any counter services in Thailand ,they would know the words I used are the same as they often heard.

I'm not serious with your posts about myself,but this is Thai language forum and whoever read in this forum mean they want to study Thai or interested in studying Thai langauge. So I suppose they want to know the proper Thai language more than to know vulgar Thai langauge which somehow may let they got in trouble.

Yoot.....I re-iterate.....the straight from the dictionary comment was followed by some smilies indicating the comment was not to be taken seriously....lighten up a bit old son. I wouldnt see that as bragging.....more like a bit of bagging..

The OP asked for examples of some fairly basic sentences...I would suspect that if ~G~ was as proficient as some others than the request would have involved more complex sentences. Also the word that was requested is not one of the more complex Thai words.

My posts are not meant to mislead....merely to indicate that there are very easy ways to get a message across....sentences that are easy to remember and not too confusing....I suggest that if people wanted a formal Thai language education then they would be doing a University course in it, not asking questions on a forum with a high farang membership most of whom cant speak a word of Thai. While I agree that there are some members here that have a high level of learning and would be following the detailed translations and explanations with great interest...there are many more that would find it confusing and difficult to follow. The people with the higher level of learning would disregard my KISS stance, but there maybe some people who find some of my posts helpful.

So there is no need to put someone down for having a different way of doing things...and sure I make mistakes sometimes.....but then again I never claimed to be perfect.

[yoot]

เฮ้อ ! อ่านแล้วเหนื่อยใจจัง

[gburns57au]

เฮ้อ !   อ่านแล้วเหนื่อยใจจัง

Have a good nights sleep....you will be more refreshed tomorrow....

[bina]

.

I suggest that if people wanted a formal Thai language education then they would be doing a University course in it, not asking questions on a forum with a high farang membership most of whom cant speak a word of Thai.

some of us :

1. are kibbutzniks and therefore have no money and can not go out to study unless it is beneficial to the kibbutz (commune type thing) nor can afford to order books from internet since do not have bank account (my parents once in a while will foot a bill from the states for books thru the net)

2. divorced mothers therefore have no independant funds for uni

3. even if wanted to study, do not have a chance since there is no formal thai lang., or history, or culture classes in israel for south east asia, believe me i've scoured the country... israelis seem to only love thailand as a playground, not a place to study

and its not thru lack of trying for the past three years; thru this very forum, i have succeeded in actually learning to read, speak etc (and the daily help of sompong my thai worker/friend and the rest of the guys who put up with my sometimes bizarre sentences and pronounciations)

and yes, i am simultaneously getting: central thai, issan dialects barring surin kmer and others, and both daily (masculine oriented) lang and the more 'educated' style as well; just like i learned hebrew: both street/slang/ethnic usages, and the more educated style for when needed.

so far the poeple on the forums that i frequent seem pretty knowlegable and if not they can always ask the wife/girlfriend/boyfriend thai; plus there is khun yoot, et al whom are the native speakers and possible didnt quite catch your english speaking tongue in cheek humour, na? they are the 'quick fix' when benjawan, et al aren't any help

so.....

yalla bye.....

[sabaijai]

Woy, hadn't checked this thread till now, looks like I missed all the fun. And the OP got way more than he bargained for!

One metalinguistic observation: The high emotional arc this thread has achieved over a simple grammatical issue demonstrates how tightly our egos are linked to language and expression.

In applied linguistics, spec. language acquisition theory, one theory as to why adults have more trouble learning a second language than children do is that the older one gets, the less ego permeability one has. Or put another way, most people's sociolinguistic identity has more or less solidified by the time they've reached adulthood.

But the child returns when the adult's grasp of a second language is challenged, doesn't s/he?

[RDN]

Woy, hadn't checked this thread till now, looks like I missed all the fun. And the OP got way more than he bargained for!

One metalinguistic observation: The high emotional arc this thread has achieved over a simple grammatical issue demonstrates how tightly our egos are linked to language and expression.

In applied linguistics, spec. language acquisition theory, one theory as to why adults have more trouble learning a second language than children do is that the older one gets, the less ego permeability one has. Or put another way, most people's sociolinguistic identity has more or less solidified by the time they've reached adulthood.

But the child returns when the adult's grasp of a second language is challenged, doesn't s/he? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bloody right! But some people do seem to be more - how shall I put it? - cantankerous? than others.

[~G~]

some of us :

1. are kibbutzniks and therefore have no money and can not go out to study unless it is beneficial to the kibbutz (commune type thing) nor can afford to order books from internet since do not have bank account (my parents once in a while will  foot a bill from the states for books thru the net)

2. divorced mothers therefore have no independant funds for uni

3. even if wanted to study, do not have a chance since there is no formal thai lang., or history, or culture classes in israel  for south east asia, believe me i've scoured the country... israelis seem to only love thailand as a playground, not a place to study

and its not thru lack of trying for the past three years; thru this very forum, i have succeeded in actually learning to read, speak etc (and the daily help of sompong my thai worker/friend and the rest of the guys who put up with my sometimes bizarre sentences and pronounciations) 

and yes, i am simultaneously getting: central thai, issan dialects barring surin kmer and others, and both daily (masculine oriented) lang and the more 'educated' style as well; just like i learned hebrew: both street/slang/ethnic usages, and the more educated style for when needed. 

so far the poeple on the forums that i frequent seem pretty knowlegable and if not they can always ask the wife/girlfriend/boyfriend thai; plus there is khun yoot, et al whom are the native speakers and possible didnt quite catch your english speaking tongue in cheek humour, na? they are the 'quick fix' when benjawan, et al aren't any help

so.....

yalla bye.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bina, I'm a former Moshavnik now living in BKK... As you have shown by your success in learning Thai, Israel is not a bad place at all to do it!

[bannork]

Hey, yoot, I noticed you don't have an avatar. You can have this one if you like:

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

khun yoot จะไม่หยุด เพราะว่าเขาตัองใช้ยุทธ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't get the last word there, bannork - Khun Yoot can't stop because he must do what?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Knowing Yoot's name meant 'war',not 'stop', I was trying to say Khun Yoot couldn't stop,he must continue to wage war, ie continue to help us foreigners learn Thai; unfortunately I couldn't find the word for 'wage' war incorporating his name as well so I opted for 'chai',(no Thai on this keyboard). A poor choice I admit and my answer could be described as cryptic, I'll try to improve my jokes next time.

[bannork]

Before - "gorn", right? But is it for chronological order only or for places as well?

It can be for both chronological and places.

Example for chronological,

คุณต้องกรอกแบบฟอร์มนี้ก่อน หลังจากนั้นจึงนำไปยื่นให้กับเจ้าหน้าที่

koon dtông gròk bàep fom née gòn lăng jàak nán jeung nam bpai yêun hâi gàp jâo nâa têe

You have to fill out this form first and then apply to an officer.

Example for places,

เดินตรงไปก็จะเห็นธนาคารก่อน ถัดไปเป็นโรงเรียน หลังจากนั้นถึงจะเป็นห้างเซ็นทรัล

dern dtrong bpai gôr jà hen tá-naa-kaan gòn tàt bpai bpen rohng rian lăng jàak nán tĕung jà bpen hâang Central.

Go straight ,you will see a bank which is next to a school, after that it will be Central Department store.

For example -

"I will go to work after breakfast"

"Turn right after the bridge"

"I will go to work after breakfast"

หลังจากทานข้าวเช้าเสร็จ ผมก็จะไปทำงาน

lăng jàak taan kâo cháo sèt pŏm gôr jà bpai tam ngaan

"Turn right after the bridge"

พอพ้นสะพานไปก็เลี้ยวขวา or หลังจากข้ามสะพานไปแล้วก็เลี้ยวขวา

por pón sà-paan bpai gôr líeow kwăa or lăng jàak kâam sà-paan bpai láew gôr líeow kwăa

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Beautiful.....straight from the dictionary.....and hardly understood by the average Thai on the street. I can imagine the response...." you speak Thai very good....but we not understand you"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excuse me, but that is total bullshit.

Those sentences are perfectly comprehensible for any native speaker of Thai, although more formal in style than the lingo you normally hear in the street. If you get the pronunciation and tones right, that is.

I really cannot believe you have the nerve to criticize somebody who was born in Thailand with Thai as his mother tongue and lives and works in that context, when you yourself use Thai as a second language like the rest of us, and also appear to have zero formal education in it (no matter what your opinion on formal education is).

If English was the topic you would be in your right to make value judgements, since I assume you are born Australian with English-speaking parents, but here you are way out of line making snide remarks and ought to apologize.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As you and Yoot have said ..it was a very formal version, and most Thais on the street would not understand it so quickly as they would be expecting a different answer.....

Oh by the way Meadish....... ...means the comment was just a touch tongue in cheek.....and not meant to be taken so seriously.....and I dont feel an apology is due at all.....And lets also remeber that teaching people to speak formal Thai will not help them in their quest to speak to everyday Thai people but only serve to confuse them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's obvious that you are not understand Thai langauge as much as you've bragged.

Although I said the example in my posts was formal , not very formal. Every Thais can understand it easily. It's formal and used in general as well. There is a Thai proverb " สำเนียงส่อภาษา กิริยาส่อสกุล " ,if you can understand this proverb you will get what I'm trying to tell you.

It doesn't mean you don't know these words and Thais shouldn't know these words as you. You mentioned that the words I used were straight from dictionary. I wonder which dictionaries can tell you these sentences. In fact ,I didn't realize that the words I used were formal or not. I often use these words in my diary life with every classes of people. It doesn't look arrogant to use these formal words even with a beggar. I hope you can learn and understand more in Thai language than you know. Thai langauge is more beautiful and flexible than you think.

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

สำเนียงส่อภาษากิริยาส่สกุล- a stab at a translation,-your accent reveals your roots, your conduct shows your background\ upbringing\ class.

To digress a little,Tony Blair has a middle class accent, from that I would have no idea if he came from Newcastle, Birmingham or London in the UK; would the same hold true for a middle class person from USA or Australia?

[RDN]

Knowing Yoot's name meant 'war',not 'stop'....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you write in Thai the word for 'war' that sounds like "yoot". I can only find "song-kram" ?

........ I'll try to improve my jokes next time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, please - went straight over my head, I'm afraid

[sabaijai]

สำเนียงส่อภาษากิริยาส่สกุล- a stab at a translation,-your accent reveals your roots, your conduct shows your background\ upbringing\ class.

Or "[Your] accent reveals [your] language, actions reveal [your] family [upbringing]."

The Thai phrase is missing a character, no? Should be:

สำเนียงส่อภาษากิริยาส่อสกุล

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(~G~ @ 2005-03-28 07:11:32)

"Turn right after the bridge"

I'll give this one a shot:-

เลยสะพานแล้วเลี้ยวขวา - lo-ei saphaan lair-o lee-ow khwa - beyond bridge (already) turn right.

Scouse.

I try to keep it simple.

kam saphaan leeow khwa

or if you don't cross the bridge, ie go under,

pan saphan leeow khwa

[bannork]

Knowing Yoot's name meant 'war',not 'stop'....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you write in Thai the word for 'war' that sounds like "yoot". I can only find "song-kram" ?

........ I'll try to improve my jokes next time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, please - went straight over my head, I'm afraid

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's right there in my quote RDN, namely, ยุทธ, Yoot's name, although his full name isยุทธนา, any good dictionary must have it as it's the root for many words.

[bannork]

สำเนียงส่อภาษากิริยาส่สกุล- a stab at a translation,-your accent reveals your roots, your conduct shows your background\ upbringing\ class.

Or "[Your] accent reveals [your] language, actions reveal [your] family [upbringing]."

The Thai phrase is missing a character, no? Should be:

สำเนียงส่อภาษากิริยาส่อสกุล

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right Sabaijai, apologies, I missed อ in the second ส่อ, the problem with the direct translation as in: 'Your accent reveals your language' is what does that mean in English? Would you agree that the essence of the saying is that a person's use of language and his\her behaviour reveal some aspects of him\herself, namely, level of education\class\background?

Perhaps we could invert it and say,' your accent is revealed in your speech\language and hence we know where you are from!'

I don't think gburns is going to like this, he likes things short and sweet!

[RDN]

Knowing Yoot's name meant 'war',not 'stop'....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you write in Thai the word for 'war' that sounds like "yoot". I can only find "song-kram" ?

........ I'll try to improve my jokes next time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, please - went straight over my head, I'm afraid

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's right there in my quote RDN, namely, ยุทธ, Yoot's name, although his full name isยุทธนา, any good dictionary must have it as it's the root for many words.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very strange - neither thai2english.com, longdo.ex.nii.ac.jp nor lexitron.nectec.or.th has ยุทธ on it's own, but do have it within words.

But I did find it in Benjawan Becker's dictionary.

[gburns57au]

สำเนียงส่อภาษากิริยาส่สกุล- a stab at a translation,-your accent reveals your roots, your conduct shows your background\ upbringing\ class.

Or "[Your] accent reveals [your] language, actions reveal [your] family [upbringing]."

The Thai phrase is missing a character, no? Should be:

สำเนียงส่อภาษากิริยาส่อสกุล

You're right Sabaijai, apologies, I missed อ in the second ส่อ, the problem with the direct translation as in: 'Your accent reveals your language' is what does that mean in English? Would you agree that the essence of the saying is that a person's use of language and his\her behaviour reveal some aspects of him\herself, namely, level of education\class\background?

Perhaps we could invert it and say,' your accent is revealed in your speech\language and hence we know where you are from!'

I don't think gburns is going to like this, he likes things short and sweet!

I hate it I hate it I hate......

Actually I am quite comfortable with most levels of Thai....if I am the one reading it...my GF has been writing to me in a way that another Thai girl described as like a poetic style. I am just starting to get the hang of it now....

[Richard W]

Knowing Yoot's name meant 'war',not 'stop'....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you write in Thai the word for 'war' that sounds like "yoot". I can only find "song-kram" ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's ยุทธ์, as in Ayutthaya and Yongchaiyudh, the recent prime minister.

[bannork]

Knowing Yoot's name meant 'war',not 'stop'....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you write in Thai the word for 'war' that sounds like "yoot". I can only find "song-kram" ?

........ I'll try to improve my jokes next time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, please - went straight over my head, I'm afraid

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's right there in my quote RDN, namely, ยุทธ, Yoot's name, although his full name isยุทธนา, any good dictionary must have it as it's the root for many words.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very strange - neither thai2english.com, longdo.ex.nii.ac.jp nor lexitron.nectec.or.th has ยุทธ on it's own, but do have it within words.

But I did find it in Benjawan Becker's dictionary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not strange at all RDN, look in any good book dictionary, examples:

ยุทธวิธี-tactics, it doesn't have to have a military connection, it's often used to refer to political factions fighting for influence.

ยุทธศาสตร์-strategy, this could be either military or political

กลยุทธ์- to manoeuvre, chess or militarily,

there's plenty more; Richard is right in that if it's the final letter ธ requires ยุทธ์

so we could say the meaning ofยุทธ์ covers much more territory,(metaphorically),than song-khram

Edited April 7, 2005 by bannork

[RDN]

It's ยุทธ์, as in Ayutthaya and Yongchaiyudh, the recent prime minister.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks RW, I looked in another paper dictionary and it has both ยุทธ์ and ยุทธ as meaning war, fight or combat.

Very strange - neither thai2english.com, longdo.ex.nii.ac.jp nor lexitron.nectec.or.th has ยุทธ on it's own, but do have it within words.

But I did find it in Benjawan Becker's dictionary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not strange at all RDN, look in any good book dictionary, examples:

ยุทธวิธี-tactics, it doesn't have to have a military connection, it's often used to refer to political factions fighting for influence.

ยุทธศาสตร์-strategy, this could be either military or political

กลยุทธ์- to manoeuvre, chess or militarily,

there's plenty more; Richard is right in that if it's the final letter ธ requires ยุทธ์

so we could say the meaning ofยุทธ์ covers much more territory,(metaphorically),than song-khram

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you missed my point, what I thought strange was that the three on-line dictionaries did not have either ยุทธ์ or ยุทธ, and yet gave many other words containing it, eg.

English-Thai: NECTEC's Lexitron-2 Dictionary [with local updates]

artifice [N] กลอุบาย, See also: ชั้นเชิง, เล่ห์เหลี่ยม, กลเม็ด, กลยุทธ์, กลวิธี, Syn. trick, wile

high-pressure [VT] ที่ชักชวนหรือกระตุ้นให้ซื้อของโดยใช้กลยุทธ์ที่ก้าวร้าวและไม่ยอมเลิกรา (คำไม่เป็นทางการ)

maneuver [N] กลยุทธ์, See also: กลอุบาย, แผนการ, Syn. stratagem, procedure

maneuverering [N] การใช้แผนการ, See also: การใช้กลยุทธ์, Syn. tactics, strategy

manoeuvering [N] การใช้กลยุทธ์

manoeuvre [N] กลยุทธ์, See also: กลอุบาย, แผนการ, Syn. stratagem, procedure

strategic [ADJ] เกี่ยวกับยุทธวิธีหรือกลยุทธ์, See also: ในทางยุทธศาสตร์, Syn. cunning, diplomatic, tricky

strategical [ADJ] เกี่ยวกับยุทธวิธีหรือกลยุทธ์, Syn. tactical

tactic [N] ยุทธวิธี, See also: หนทาง, นโยบาย, กลยุทธ์

tactical [ADJ] เกี่ยวกับยุทธวิธี, See also: เกี่ยวกับกลยุทธ์ที่ชาญฉลาด

tactician [N] นักกลยุทธ์, See also: นักวางยุทธวิธี, ผู้มีกลยุทธ์, Syn. strategist, planner

tactics [N] การทหาร, See also: กลยุทธ์ที่ใช้ในการรบหรือทำสงคราม

tactics [N] ชั้นเชิง, See also: กลยุทธ์, กลวิธี, Syn. strategy, maneuvering, generalship, stratagem

English-Thai: HOPE Dictionary [with local updates]

joust (จูสทฺ) {jousted,jousting,jousts} vt.,n. (การ) ประลองยุทธ์บนหลังม้า (ระหว่างอัศวิน) ,ต่อสู้,แข่งขัน. -S.tilt,jostle,tourney,

English-Thai: Nontri Dictionary

joust (n) การสู้ด้วยหอก,การแข่งขัน,การประลองยุทธ์

joust (vi) สู้ด้วยหอก,ประลองยุทธ์,แข่งขัน

stratagem (n) ยุทธวิธี,เล่ห์เหลี่ยม,อุบาย,กลยุทธ์,กุศโลบาย,แผนการ

strategic (adj) เป็นกลยุทธ์,สำคัญทางยุทธศาสตร์,เป็นยุทธปัจจัย

strategy (n) ยุทธวิธี,กลยุทธ์,แผนการณ์,อุบาย,กุศโลบาย,ยุทธศาสตร์

tactical (adj) เกี่ยวกับยุทธวิธี,เกี่ยวกับกลยุทธ์,ฉลาด

tactics (n) ยุทธวิธี,กลยุทธ์,การทหาร

tournament (n) การแข่งขัน,การประลองยุทธ์

[Richard W]

Very strange - neither thai2english.com, longdo.ex.nii.ac.jp nor lexitron.nectec.or.th has ยุทธ on it's own, but do have it within words.

Maybe you missed my point, what I thought strange was that the three on-line dictionaries did not have either ยุทธ์ or ยุทธ, and yet gave many other words containing it, eg.

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They may not be independent. I'm sure thai2english.com used to say it was derived from Lexitron, but that doesn't mean it still is. Thai-language.com has ยุทธ์ (and hasn't just added it!), and also records it as a personal name (though that could be recent).

Edited April 8, 2005 by Richard W

[RDN]

Very strange - neither thai2english.com, longdo.ex.nii.ac.jp nor lexitron.nectec.or.th has ยุทธ on it's own, but do have it within words.

Maybe you missed my point, what I thought strange was that the three on-line dictionaries did not have either ยุทธ์ or ยุทธ, and yet gave many other words containing it, eg.

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They may not be independent. I'm sure thai2english.com used to say it was derived from Lexitron, but that doesn't mean it still is. Thai-language.com has ยุทธ์ (and hasn't just added it!), and also records it as a personal name (though that could be recent).

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Thanks RW - I'm going to add Thai-Language.com to my search engines as soon as I've finished posting! This is the site that you are involved with or connected with, as I recall. Som nam naa to me for not using it sooner.

[yoot]

Very strange - neither thai2english.com, longdo.ex.nii.ac.jp nor lexitron.nectec.or.th has ยุทธ on it's own, but do have it within words.

Maybe you missed my point, what I thought strange was that the three on-line dictionaries did not have either ยุทธ์ or ยุทธ, and yet gave many other words containing it, eg.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They may not be independent. I'm sure thai2english.com used to say it was derived from Lexitron, but that doesn't mean it still is. Thai-language.com has ยุทธ์ (and hasn't just added it!), and also records it as a personal name (though that could be recent).

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ยุทธ์can be independent, it means battle, war, fighting. Mostly used in literature.

E.g. ริชาร์ดเป็นผู้เชียวชาญในเชิงยุทธ์

Richard is an expert in the finesse of fighting.

เชิง(cherng) means finesse .

Thai-language.com has this page aboutยุทธ but the pronunciation of this word is wrong, including other compound words.

[Richard W]

Maybe you missed my point, what I thought strange was that the three on-line dictionaries did not have either ยุทธ์ or ยุทธ, and yet gave many other words  containing it, eg.

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They may not be independent.

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ยุทธ์can be independent.

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I meant that the dictionaries might not be independent.

Thai-language.com has this page about ยุทธ but the pronunciation of this word is wrong, including other compound words.

Glenn Slayden, the author/editor of Thai-language.com, seems to have originally swallowed the line that Thai was an isolating language, and based his handling of compounds on that claim. Consequently, the site gets a lot of problems with Pali/Sanskrit(-style) words whose components have separate entries. He's 'currently doing a significant reworking of the database format which will allow for more flexibility in such cases'. 'Such' referred to ธรรม/ธรรมะ and to ภูมิ and its pronunciation in compounds.

I will be interested to see if he addresses such complicated cases as พจนานุกรม from พจน์ + อนุกรม. They may require more effort than they're worth.

[Stoney]

Very strange - neither thai2english.com, longdo.ex.nii.ac.jp nor lexitron.nectec.or.th has ยุทธ on it's own, but do have it within words.

But I did find it in Benjawan Becker's dictionary.

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Some nice URLs you provided here, thanks RDN. I am a novice in the Thai language (and in this forum as well), but I hope to improve in both issues

A website not only writing the fonetics of the Thai words but also playing an audio string would be very helpful. Are you, or anybody, familiar with such site??

[mike_l]

Very strange - neither thai2english.com, longdo.ex.nii.ac.jp nor lexitron.nectec.or.th has ยุทธ on it's own, but do have it within words.

But I did find it in Benjawan Becker's dictionary.

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Some nice URLs you provided here, thanks RDN. I am a novice in the Thai language (and in this forum as well), but I hope to improve in both issues

A website not only writing the fonetics of the Thai words but also playing an audio string would be very helpful. Are you, or anybody, familiar with such site??

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Hi Stoney,

You could try http://www.ppainnovation.com/salika/ which has a program you can download that will read Thai text for you. I don't know how it works for more complex words, but it seems to work pretty well for standard text. Otherwise, there are sound clips for various words at thai-language.com and learningthai.com but usually only for one or two words at a time.

RDN,

Sorry, I forget to reply to you in this thread but thanks for the welcome there and glad you like the site. I've added ยุทธ์ in now after reading through this.