'that Farang Done Me Wrong' Thread

[Donnyboy]

^ unfortunately, the handshake means didley squat to the younger generations

When you can end an relationship by texting or email

a new generation of moral degenerates

[cmsally]

Business years ago in UK could be conducted on handshakes but I doubt you would get far now. I know in my parents generation a lot of things if agreed upon with a handshake or even a verbal agreement could be counted on.

Now it seems to be more of a run with the cash while you can attitude. Heck you're lucky if they don't sue you.

From experience I would say probably to some extent you could take 25% by their word on a good day.

Every now and again though you do business with someone who restores your faith in humanity, always seems to be at the point at which you have almost had it.

One person I did business with in the UK springs to mind; she could have easily flunked out on a business deal, but didn't because she had given her word. Not only that, shortly afterwards she called me on the phone and also emailed me to check I was OK after the tsunami. Didn't have the heart to tell her I lived miles away from Phuket. But that was pretty amazing considering I had only met her a few times.

[slapout]

After reading many the responses on the topic, it tends to reinforce my reluctance to conduct business of any sort, with anyone, with the possible exception, for the purpose of physical gratification.

In which case you would be shaking other parts of the anatomy

After reading your statement, let me assure you that your idea of gratification would not appear to agree with mine, but doubt that we want to go there.

[trainman34014]

^ unfortunately, the handshake means didley squat to the younger generations

When you can end an relationship by texting or email

a new generation of moral degenerates

Sadly you have hit the nail right on the head Donnyboy. Most of us older types are now living in a world we can hardly recognise when it comes to ethics,respect and common decency.

[cm das]

^ unfortunately, the handshake means didley squat to the younger generations

When you can end an relationship by texting or email

a new generation of moral degenerates

Sadly you have hit the nail right on the head Donnyboy. Most of us older types are now living in a world we can hardly recognise when it comes to ethics,respect and common decency.

Come on guys, let's not go overboard. Those good old days where a man's handshake was an iron-clad promise of decency and honor... weren't they also the days when people with darker skin were openly discriminated against, when women were expected to stay home & obey their husbands, and when it was perfectly acceptable to hit children? Not to mention the treatment of Jews, homosexuals... I could go on. I'm not suggesting anyone on this board held such beliefs, but all the business about how people of today have no morals or decency compared to former times is a little too much for me to take.

[Tim207]

Your comments regarding ;notably British foreigners, whom I regard as scum and to be avoided at all costs; I am English and certainly wouldnt try to cheat anyone or do anything illegal or try to pull smart tricks on people.

That is precisely what I would expect any self respecting conman to say.

[imaneggspurt]

Well as an ex car dealer im well used to this, a deposit would have helped secure it,but even then it means nothing if they change there mind, try keeing a deposit these days, all hel_l will break loose,.my favoutie one was " well ill say yes, but i must confirm with the wife " ,my old manager used to say " ok, if your wife agrees ill ask mine and if its still ok to sell we will have a deal " it got some strange looks, but was passed off as humor,...remember buyers are liars !

[Benjie]

<br />^ unfortunately, the handshake means didley squat to the younger generations<br />When you can end an relationship by texting or email <br />a new generation of moral degenerates<br />

<br /><br /><br />I'm sure most people would rather learn of a relationship ending with a text or email than a handshake.

[slapout]

^ unfortunately, the handshake means didley squat to the younger generations

When you can end an relationship by texting or email

a new generation of moral degenerates

Sadly you have hit the nail right on the head Donnyboy. Most of us older types are now living in a world we can hardly recognise when it comes to ethics,respect and common decency.

Come on guys, let's not go overboard. Those good old days where a man's handshake was an iron-clad promise of decency and honor... weren't they also the days when people with darker skin were openly discriminated against, when women were expected to stay home & obey their husbands, and when it was perfectly acceptable to hit children? Not to mention the treatment of Jews, homosexuals... I could go on. I'm not suggesting anyone on this board held such beliefs, but all the business about how people of today have no morals or decency compared to former times is a little too much for me to take.

The only thing I see different in today's world is the handshake as a promise of decency and honor has gone the way of the dodo bird.

[olsen]

So now foreign businessmen in Thailand are touts? As far as I am concerned a tout is those approaching you in the street and trying to drag you into their shop!!!??? I don't ask people to buy my stuff, they contact me by email or phone to get more info about a property.

Adn of course I know if they do not reply back, then they're not interested....and I go on with my life! But it would be somewhat more polite just to email me "sorry, I am not interested!"

And why do you write "businessmen" ??

Seems you're one of the time wasters, so thanks for your response.

So foreign businessmen waiting to hear back from a potential buyer are fools??? He he.... I bet you're not a businessman yourself

Well lot of touts call themselves businessman and lot of businessman marketing is nothing different for the touts. Judging you post you are one of the above or in time share or patters property agent.

You claim to know if there is no reply the customer is not interested so why the rant ? It's just business, nothing personal, as "foreign businessman" you should know this. Also if your into property you know very well you keep marketing the property at to the point when transfer in done at land department. You are more than willing to drop the deal if there is better one available and more profits to you.

Do i call and email to each and every property agent i've been in contact and tell them property by property that i'm not interested. No i don't. Call me time waster if you want. It is in their profession to expect that after a simple viewing if there is no contact back the customer is not interested.

If i do make an offer for the property then it is different deal. If no reply from seller i drop it as they are not interested and if there is counter offer i do tell them if it i agree or the deal is off. Unfortunately there is too many sellers and agents who do not get this and just keep pestering for you weeks and weeks after you have told them no deal.

Again judging your post it appears to me that you do have above issues as you seem to consider all customers as time wasters that are not buying from you.

I am a real estate broker and developer.

The rant is because many time wasters say something like: "Wow.....wonderful villa, that's just what I've been waiting for. I am for sure interested, and I will for sure get back to you regarding a deposit to secure this pearl!"

And then nothing! Nothing at all!

I cannot just ignore such behavior..... and I can't stop thinking, when there is no response to my emails, that I might have server problems or something causing my emails not to reach the potential buyer (the bloody time waster :-) ) So I go out of my way to check with my web host, my ISP and God knows what, to ensure that my emails are actually sent.

Sometimes the time wasters call us back and make appointments signing the purhase contract, but never turns up....it seems like a hobby to many of them :-)

My worst experience was when working in Phuket.

I had been communicating with a guy for months via email and sent him tons of info and photos.

One day he came to my office and he wanted to view the property.

Then he said: "I want to buy this house".

Then I explained to him that he had to open a Thai bank account first and wire money to this new account from outside Thailand.

He said he didn't know how to open a bank account and asked if I could assist him.

So next day we went to Kasikornbank and he got his account.

He then told me he would arrange a transfer from the UK. "I will call your office when the money has arrived".

Then I heard nothing from him for weeks...and he didn't reply my phone calls, neither my emails.

So I went to talk to the owner.

The owner told me she has sold the house to my client!

The owner said the client came to the house and asked if he could buy the house cash from her, then he would take care of paying me my 3% commission.

The owner agreed and signed contract with him and they went to the land office to tranfer the house to his company name.

Not did he just waste my time, he also cheated me out of my commission!

I understand that you don't want to call or email all the brokers you're in contact with if only you've seen a house and don't like it. No problem.

But as you state, if you've shown an interest in the house and told the broker that you're interested, then I find it awful impolite not at least to email or call the broker and tell him you've changed your mind!!

Not all viewers of property is of course time wasters, but many of them are for sure.

In 99% of the cases I can see if the client is interested or not.

I don't mind "wasting my time" showing properties to clients, thats a part of the game.

[enemedin]

newcomers farangs, tend to be skeptical about thai people and trust their countrymates thinking to get good deals, but the reality shows it otherwise. personal experience and heard some stories

[maccaroni man]

So now foreign businessmen in Thailand are touts? As far as I am concerned a tout is those approaching you in the street and trying to drag you into their shop!!!??? I don't ask people to buy my stuff, they contact me by email or phone to get more info about a property.

Adn of course I know if they do not reply back, then they're not interested....and I go on with my life! But it would be somewhat more polite just to email me "sorry, I am not interested!"

And why do you write "businessmen" ??

Seems you're one of the time wasters, so thanks for your response.

So foreign businessmen waiting to hear back from a potential buyer are fools??? He he.... I bet you're not a businessman yourself

Well lot of touts call themselves businessman and lot of businessman marketing is nothing different for the touts. Judging you post you are one of the above or in time share or patters property agent.

You claim to know if there is no reply the customer is not interested so why the rant ? It's just business, nothing personal, as "foreign businessman" you should know this. Also if your into property you know very well you keep marketing the property at to the point when transfer in done at land department. You are more than willing to drop the deal if there is better one available and more profits to you.

Do i call and email to each and every property agent i've been in contact and tell them property by property that i'm not interested. No i don't. Call me time waster if you want. It is in their profession to expect that after a simple viewing if there is no contact back the customer is not interested.

If i do make an offer for the property then it is different deal. If no reply from seller i drop it as they are not interested and if there is counter offer i do tell them if it i agree or the deal is off. Unfortunately there is too many sellers and agents who do not get this and just keep pestering for you weeks and weeks after you have told them no deal.

Again judging your post it appears to me that you do have above issues as you seem to consider all customers as time wasters that are not buying from you.

I am a real estate broker and developer.

The rant is because many time wasters say something like: "Wow.....wonderful villa, that's just what I've been waiting for. I am for sure interested, and I will for sure get back to you regarding a deposit to secure this pearl!"

And then nothing! Nothing at all!

I cannot just ignore such behavior..... and I can't stop thinking, when there is no response to my emails, that I might have server problems or something causing my emails not to reach the potential buyer (the bloody time waster :-) ) So I go out of my way to check with my web host, my ISP and God knows what, to ensure that my emails are actually sent.

Sometimes the time wasters call us back and make appointments signing the purhase contract, but never turns up....it seems like a hobby to many of them :-)

My worst experience was when working in Phuket.

I had been communicating with a guy for months via email and sent him tons of info and photos.

One day he came to my office and he wanted to view the property.

Then he said: "I want to buy this house".

Then I explained to him that he had to open a Thai bank account first and wire money to this new account from outside Thailand.

He said he didn't know how to open a bank account and asked if I could assist him.

So next day we went to Kasikornbank and he got his account.

He then told me he would arrange a transfer from the UK. "I will call your office when the money has arrived".

Then I heard nothing from him for weeks...and he didn't reply my phone calls, neither my emails.

So I went to talk to the owner.

The owner told me she has sold the house to my client!

The owner said the client came to the house and asked if he could buy the house cash from her, then he would take care of paying me my 3% commission.

The owner agreed and signed contract with him and they went to the land office to tranfer the house to his company name.

Not did he just waste my time, he also cheated me out of my commission!

I understand that you don't want to call or email all the brokers you're in contact with if only you've seen a house and don't like it. No problem.

But as you state, if you've shown an interest in the house and told the broker that you're interested, then I find it awful impolite not at least to email or call the broker and tell him you've changed your mind!!

Not all viewers of property is of course time wasters, but many of them are for sure.

In 99% of the cases I can see if the client is interested or not.

I don't mind "wasting my time" showing properties to clients, thats a part of the game.

here is a story for the books, a friend of mine has a small resort for long term lets, he needed a manager, posted an ad and was overwhelmed by replies from bkk. the owner lives in the states so he is doing this all over the internet and ask me to check on things from time to time. He hired a guy from bkk and within a month it was obvious that it was not a match, the owner offered to let him keep the work permit, refund his out of pocket expences for the time spent and asked that the keys and petty cash be returned to me. i went by the property today, the bkk boy is gone, no keys, no cash, and to top it off he has sold all the furniture in all the houses hence another case of being done in by ones own country man.

[Maejo Man]

here is a story for the books, a friend of mine has a small resort for long term lets, he needed a manager, posted an ad and was overwhelmed by replies from bkk. the owner lives in the states so he is doing this all over the internet and ask me to check on things from time to time. He hired a guy from bkk and within a month it was obvious that it was not a match, the owner offered to let him keep the work permit, refund his out of pocket expences for the time spent and asked that the keys and petty cash be returned to me. i went by the property today, the bkk boy is gone, no keys, no cash, and to top it off he has sold all the furniture in all the houses hence another case of being done in by ones own country man.

For a start work permits are useless once you have left the company. If he has indeed cleaned out the houses of furniture, he should not be too hard to track through the Labour Dept, in conjunction with the local police, and/or immigration.

[maccaroni man]

here is a story for the books, a friend of mine has a small resort for long term lets, he needed a manager, posted an ad and was overwhelmed by replies from bkk. the owner lives in the states so he is doing this all over the internet and ask me to check on things from time to time. He hired a guy from bkk and within a month it was obvious that it was not a match, the owner offered to let him keep the work permit, refund his out of pocket expences for the time spent and asked that the keys and petty cash be returned to me. i went by the property today, the bkk boy is gone, no keys, no cash, and to top it off he has sold all the furniture in all the houses hence another case of being done in by ones own country man.

For a start work permits are useless once you have left the company. If he has indeed cleaned out the houses of furniture, he should not be too hard to track through the Labour Dept, in conjunction with the local police, and/or immigration.

i believe that is exactly what is taking place, never the less this a story of ones county man doing his own country man in.

[wolf5370]

^ unfortunately, the handshake means didley squat to the younger generations

When you can end an relationship by texting or email

a new generation of moral degenerates

Sadly you have hit the nail right on the head Donnyboy. Most of us older types are now living in a world we can hardly recognise when it comes to ethics,respect and common decency.

Mmm the moral good old days when children were sent into machines to unjam them and up chimneys to clean them; when sleeping with a 9 year old virgin was a cure for syphilis; when black people could not ride buses or eat in cafes; and there were no criminals, conmen or thieves. How rose tinted those nostalgia glasses!

[Thakkar]

here is a story for the books, a friend of mine has a small resort for long term lets, he needed a manager, posted an ad and was overwhelmed by replies from bkk. the owner lives in the states so he is doing this all over the internet and ask me to check on things from time to time. He hired a guy from bkk and within a month it was obvious that it was not a match, the owner offered to let him keep the work permit, refund his out of pocket expences for the time spent and asked that the keys and petty cash be returned to me. i went by the property today, the bkk boy is gone, no keys, no cash, and to top it off he has sold all the furniture in all the houses hence another case of being done in by ones own country man.

...snip...

...snip... this a story of ones county man doing his own country man in.

The notion that a fellow countryman can be more trustworthy simply by virtue of being from the same country is rather bizarre to me. One of my longest and more successful business partnerships was with a Nigerian. People of many hues—Indian, Chinese, Western and even other Nigerians—were shocked when they heard I was prepared to trust a Nigerian to the tune of $100k+ at a time. Nigerians have a culture of corruption, I was told. Thing is, when I was considering how much to trust this fellow, I assessed him as an individual, and not as a member of any group.

My business (considerably scaled down nowadays) involves giving credit and thus judgement calls on buyers from many countries on a regular basis. Obviously, since I'm not bankrupt, my calls have been 'good' most of the time. But I have been wrong (sometimes spectacularly so) and have paid (by not being paid) for my bad calls. Looking back, I don't see any overarching theme; each broken promise had unique accompaniments and circumstances surrounding it. It was never a case of "he was out to screw me from the getgo" because buyers like that are easily weeded out in the initial stages. Buyers, good and bad, run the gamut of nationalities and ethnicities and I've found that fellow Indians are no better or worse than any others non-fellow types.

In short, avoid being lulled by "fellowships". Asses people as individuals, and you're more likely to get it right.

[nickmanchester2]

i thought this was going to be a really bad story of someone ripping you off - think you will get over it!

[Ulysses G.]

The notion that a fellow countryman can be more trustworthy simply by virtue of being from the same country is rather bizarre to me. One of my longest and more successful business partnerships was with a Nigerian. People of many hues—Indian, Chinese, Western and even other Nigerians—were shocked when they heard I was prepared to trust a Nigerian to the tune of $100k+ at a time. Nigerians have a culture of corruption, I was told. Thing is, when I was considering how much to trust this fellow, I assessed him as an individual, and not as a member of any group.

My business (considerably scaled down nowadays) involves giving credit and thus judgement calls on buyers from many countries on a regular basis. Obviously, since I'm not bankrupt, my calls have been 'good' most of the time. But I have been wrong (sometimes spectacularly so) and have paid (by not being paid) for my bad calls. Looking back, I don't see any overarching theme; each broken promise had unique accompaniments and circumstances surrounding it. It was never a case of "he was out to screw me from the getgo" because buyers like that are easily weeded out in the initial stages. Buyers, good and bad, run the gamut of nationalities and ethnicities and I've found that fellow Indians are no better or worse than any others non-fellow types.

In short, avoid being lulled by "fellowships". Asses people as individuals, and you're more likely to get it right.

That was a wonderful, informative post. Thank you Thakkar.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Thakkar]

The notion that a fellow countryman can be more trustworthy simply by virtue of being from the same country is rather bizarre to me. One of my longest and more successful business partnerships was with a Nigerian. People of many hues—Indian, Chinese, Western and even other Nigerians—were shocked when they heard I was prepared to trust a Nigerian to the tune of $100k+ at a time. Nigerians have a culture of corruption, I was told. Thing is, when I was considering how much to trust this fellow, I assessed him as an individual, and not as a member of any group.

My business (considerably scaled down nowadays) involves giving credit and thus judgement calls on buyers from many countries on a regular basis. Obviously, since I'm not bankrupt, my calls have been 'good' most of the time. But I have been wrong (sometimes spectacularly so) and have paid (by not being paid) for my bad calls. Looking back, I don't see any overarching theme; each broken promise had unique accompaniments and circumstances surrounding it. It was never a case of "he was out to screw me from the getgo" because buyers like that are easily weeded out in the initial stages. Buyers, good and bad, run the gamut of nationalities and ethnicities and I've found that fellow Indians are no better or worse than any others non-fellow types.

In short, avoid being lulled by "fellowships". Asses people as individuals, and you're more likely to get it right.

That was a wonderful, informative post. Thank you Thakkar.

Thanks.

In grappling with the notion of trusting a fellow countryman (when people say that, the subtext is: shared ethnicity rather than just nationality), it occurred to me that trusting someone primarily because they are a fellow countryman is as bizarre as trusting someone because they're the same height.

Having further considered the idea though, I can see, from a anthropological viewpoint, how we humans would have evolved to trust our own tribe over others. In a globalized world however, such evolved notions need to be replaced with less emotional, more objective and thoughtful processes. After all, part of being civilized is overcoming base emotions that hold us back, that, in the modern context, may make us act irrationally and against our own self-interest as individuals and as a species.

I regularly raid my preconceptions cupboard to jettison any lurking irrational notions. Why do it regularly? Because the buggers tend to creep back in. I've found that it pays, both financially and emotionally, to have fewer preconceptions and to regularly re-examine what I think I know. I encourage all and sundry to try it—it's quite liberating.

[ThaiSunshine]

Thakkar> Very interesting post! I am a Christian, married to a Muslim wife and my partner is Thai Buddhist

[Thakkar]

Thaisunshine, I'll call your Christian/Muslim/Buddhist-ness and raise you one Hindu Agnostic!

[hmficc]

Well it's a good thing I wasn't planning on suing him then

Needless to say there is valid difference between was is legally permissible and morally acceptable

Good for you. Now you are a grownup.Thank the man.

[mca]

When I left BKK to move to Khon Kaen I sold a lot of stuff in my apartment. This fellow Brit said he'd take the lot and I got a deposit from him. The next day he called and said he'd found some stuff cheaper than mine and could he have his deposit back. Err......No. He got quite shirty about it. In the politest terms I told him to write a letter and send it to his local TFS department.

[hmficc]

^ unfortunately, the handshake means didley squat to the younger generations

When you can end an relationship by texting or email

a new generation of moral degenerates

Sadly you have hit the nail right on the head Donnyboy. Most of us older types are now living in a world we can hardly recognise when it comes to ethics,respect and common decency.

Mmm the moral good old days when children were sent into machines to unjam them and up chimneys to clean them; when sleeping with a 9 year old virgin was a cure for syphilis; when black people could not ride buses or eat in cafes; and there were no criminals, conmen or thieves. How rose tinted those nostalgia glasses!

I would add two words: modern dentistry.