Non Immigrant Volunteer O Visa

[magicroundabout]

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for a bit of help on applying for the correct visa. I'm currently living in the UK but starting some voluntary work in Thailand for 6 months in Jan - I've got a supporting letter from my sponsor. The problem I have is a single entry visa is for 90 days which isn't long enough. I suggested to my sponsor that i should apply for a multi entry visa. However, they stated that these are rarely issued and I should apply for a 2x3 month visa but I cant find anything about this visa. I can only find single and multi entry.

Many Thanks in advance

[Lite Beer]

A Non Imm Multi Entry Visa can be obtained from the Consulate in Hull. This would give you up to 15 months.

Don't forget that you will need a Work Permit to work.

Make sure your sponsor is providing you with one or you will be working illegally.

A Work Permit cannot be obtained with a Tourist Visa.

The Consulate in Hull Here

[lopburi3]

2x3 month visa/quote]

That would appears to be a 2 entry tourist visa (with extensions) and totally illegal to work on and no work permit could be issued. I would seriously question this trip as you may be getting involved in something that could put you at risk of jail time.

[Mario2008]

As said, make sure the organisation will provide you with a work permit. If it is a registered charity they should be able to do that and along with the work permit you could get a 1 year extension of stay from immigration. It isn't that much work, but the organisation much provide all the documents etc. Most just don't bother and say you don't need a WP, but you take a risk with that.

[jazzbo]

I spent my first nearly 3 years in Thailand on a 'B' visa issued in the USA based upon a written recommendation from a former PhD Thai university education department head who said that I, on occasion, assisted him so that he could advise others in the area of Education for the Visually Disabled. I have US Government Certification in that area of expertise.

It is my contention, though without proof, that if someone were to make, or arrange for, a significant financial contribution to a registered NGO in Thailand, and that NGO wrote a proper letter on its letterhead on your behalf, that you might obtain a 'B' visa at a friendly honorary consul to observe the results of your financial contribution and to supply, if so requested, your guidance as to how such funds that you contribute could or should be spent.

This, in my non-lawyer opinion, would not violate the official definition of WORK on the Ministry of Labor website which is:

WORK means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other

benefits.

You would be primarily engaging in philanthropy; any 'using knowledge' or expertise that you might contribute would be incidental. Such an arrangement would not, in my opinion, require a work permit and indeed I never obtained a work permit. I now extend that same 'B' visa based upon Retirement.

[Mario2008]

Sorry, Jazzbo. But your above post is incorrect.

The correct visa for a volunteer is a Non-O visa, although sometimes people seem to be given a non-B, as consulates don't know how to classify them.

As for not needing a WP as a volunteer, that is completely wrong. I'm a volunteer myself at a government school and need a WP for that. Your own quote of the definition of what is considered work clearly state that is doesn't matter if it is for wages or benefits or not.

[jazzbo]

That's OK =-- I saved it for the Moderator committee.

[jazzbo]

A 'volunteer' is not someone who makes a substantial financial contribution to an NGO or educational institution. A 'benefactor' could quite readily be issued a 'B' visa as mentioned in my post above by obtaining a letterhead letter of invitation from the NGO, obtaining a 'B' visa, and entering the Kingdom as an observer... NOT as a volunteer performing work as under the Ministry of Labor definition.

IMHO this is in total compliance with MoFA, MoImmigration, and MoLabor regulations... and is, at least in part, based upon my own actual experience.

[jazzbo]

... and I still have a copy of the letter I used to obtain the 'B' visa at the Honorary Consul in the USA in May 2004.

[Mario2008]

... and I still have a copy of the letter I used to obtain the 'B' visa at the Honorary Consul in the USA in May 2004.

Sorry if I might came over a bit strong.

But even after the Tsunami people were warned that they would need a work permit if they did volunteer work. That requirement was temporaraly ignored after it cause a strirr in the media. But the official making the statement was right, it is the law.

Thai Ministry of Foreign affairs website: http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2649

Q: An NGO in Thailand has invited me to go there and work for them as a volunteer for 45 days during my school break. I will not earn any money in Thailand. I am a Belgian college student in Brussels. I understand that I do not need a visa, do I?

A: Although you will work as a volunteer, you do need a Non-Immigrant visa as well as the Work Permit. The NGO must be legally registered with the Thai authority, and that you need a recommendation letter from the NGO for your visa application and the Work Permit.

[jazzbo]

I still have not used the word 'volunteer'; you keep bringing up that word. What I am suggesting is a way to support a registered NGO in Thailand but do no work as the MoL defines work.

If I had donated 500,000 baht to a tsunami relief NGO, and obtained an invitation to obtain a visa to observe their relief efforts, how does that make me a 'volunteer'? I do not read that your Belgian college student in your example donated 500,000 baht to a registered NGO.

[magicroundabout]

Thanks everyone for all your help. Although I'm more than confused from when I started lol. Having spent a few hours looking the Thai/UK embassy I've found the following -

Purpose of visit:

a) TOURIST VISA: = Tourism only (employment, paid or unpaid, is strictly forbidden)

NON-IMMIGRANT: “B” = Business only

“ED” = Education/Study, Seminar/Conference/Exhibition, Event Official or Training Course

“O” = Friends/family, Extended Stay, UK Pensioner, Volunteer Worker, Seek Work

Therefore, its defo an "O" visa I need,

Looking at the documentation needed it states -

Evidence substantiating purpose of visit:

Extra evidence, as detailed below, is required only for Non-Immigrant Visas Categories “B” and “ED”:-

Category “B” = Letter from sponsor or copy of company documents or valid work permit

Category “ED” = Sponsor letter from educational establishment

Category “O” = Copy of Marriage Cert (if married to Thai national) or Pension Book or Sponsor Letter

THE FOLLOWING MUST BE SUBMITTED WITH ALL VISA APPLICATIONS

a) Application form – fully completed and signed (page 3/8).

Passport which should be valid for at least six months from date of travel.

c) One recent “passport type” photograph to be attached to application form.

d) Self-Certification Guarantee Form (page 6/8).

e) Appropriate fee and return postal charge together with Payment Details Form (page 7/8).

States only a working permit for Cat "B" visa - Interested to know people thoughts on this.

Thanks again

[Lite Beer]

You can work on any Non Imm Visa if you have a Work Permit.

The Visa is not the problem. You must get a Work permit.

[jazzbo]

Dear Kuhn Magic -- I apologize for adding to your confusion... I was not specifically replying to your current circumstances but to the general situation of long-term visa.

I would IMHO agree as LB and Mario have said, as you describe it, you would officially need a work permit arranged by the NGO you mention... however, that is not to say that for 6 months or less people do come on non-"O" Hull or even 2 Tourist Visas, as your sponsor suggests... but, IMHO, technically you are in violation of Labor Law if there were to be any trouble or your NGO received any complaint on their volunteer policies.

[jazzbo]

...also, as a purely practical matter, and from personal experience I learned, if the NGO in question is used to having and currently has adequate volunteer staff who have NOT requested a work permit -- which requires that the NGO provide you with detailed financial records for the local Ministry of Labor office -- but you insist on a work permit as officially required, they may just tell you to take a hike.

[thaiphoon]

To the OP:

1) Multi entry Non-O visa from Hull consulate will give you up to 15 months stay, with 90 day permission to stay on each entry.

2) Non-O (or NonB) visas are acceptable to support work permit application.

3) You cannot legally work on a tourist visa which is what I suspect the NGO is suggesting you obtain.

4) You will need work permit to work legally. The NGO will need to submit paperwork to the labour department for that.

5) If the NGO won't support work permit application you have to make your own decision as to what you do, BUT be aware that the consequences of getting caught working without a work permit (albeit maybe low) are severe.

Section 51 of the Working of Aliens Act 2551:

Any alien engaging in the work without permission shall be subject to an imprisonment of not exceeding 5 years or a fine from 2,000 baht to 100,000 baht, or both.

BUT this is usually reduced to fine and deportation.

Is up to you ...

Edited October 22, 2009 by thaiphoon

[jazzbo]

... one should also realize, as a practical matter here in LOS, especially if the NGO is of any substance and is located in a more remote area, that the NGO and its policies are already well-known to the local labor office. The NGO and local Labor office chiefs are as often as not drinking buddies trading shots of Regency.

[lopburi3]

Rather than using the funds for the purpose donated?

[jazzbo]

whatever, for Travel and Entertainment budget... It is just folly however when the powers-that-be herein suggest that you need a work permit to volunteer -- which by law you most certainly do -- but not that there are are numerous NGOs who do not offer and will not offer such work permits to their prospective volunteers and the local labor officials are already quite aware of this policy and practice... and then tell some newbie that if he so volunteers for a few months he might wind up in jail.

The letter of the law is quite clear and ThaiVisa would be remiss in not stating so; the Tsunami example is an exception because there were television cameras and news crews all over the place. What actually takes place in Sakhon Nowhere is an entirely different matter.

... aside from truly humanitarian purposes, I suggested the donation as a way to get a long-term non-Imm Visa... so what? The letter of Invitation costs the NGO nothing and a lot of worthwhile NGOs could use additional significant funding.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Rather than using the funds for the purpose donated?

Business is business Lop. TiT.

[Mario2008]

Yes, in most cases a volunteer will have no problems and his help is appreciated. But supose you volunteer at a school and are involved in an accident with a student. One of the things that can come is "do you have a work permit". Or you work to save the elephant and there is a dispute with some landowners. You are an easy target for everyone who has a quarrel with you or the organisation you volunteer for.

[jazzbo]

All good points Kuhn Mario... The local policed and Labor office are most likely already familiar with the fact that the NGO takes on under-the-table volunteers. That was the case when I was a 'resident adviser' at an NGO Under Royal Patronage a few years back over a 2 year period. The main thing I see is what is the ratio of aliens to the Thai employees.

In my case it was about 200 Thai employees ranging from janitors to PhDs, and about 5-10 under the table aliens -- some of whom were actually being paid -- and the others were sponsored by non-Thai International NGOs. I only got into trouble when I asked for a letter to obtain a visa (I didn't know what a work permit was in those days)... and there were Police, Interior Ministry, Education Ministry, governors, etc. in and out of the place all the time and there was no effort to hide the farangs.

So this notion of 'If the Labor Department ever finds out, you are in BIG trouble' is kind of silly -- they already know... and if someone by virtue of a post and reply here persists in requiring the NGO provide a work permit, the NGO will just tell them to get lost... and the notion that a mjor NGO is not aware of the law is equally silly.

[jazzbo]

I have posted this letter once before but could not find the link... this is my formal kiss-off letter from an NGO 'Under Royal Patronage' when I dared to ask them for a formal letter for non-Tourist visa... I had worked prior to this with the Communists in PR China (Ag Ministry) but this large Thai NGO was something else... Also, I had US Government Certification in Braille and they did not always appreciate that I would attract the attention of formal visitors.

So Kuhn Magic, I hope you have a good 6 months in the Kingdom.

post_a90710_.pdf

[PeaceBlondie]

Let Thais help Thais. Their kingdom, their laws, their citizens.

[jazzbo]

They invited me for as long as you I did it their way...and I enjoyed working 10 hours a day or so... great experience.

BTW, where can I buy my copy of Thai visas, residency and work permits for Dummies?

[RubbaJohnny]

You are reading it

The advice here is often better than yu ll get from lawyers or local offices based on informed knowledge and research of many expats who have done it

There is cost for the WP so you may be asked to fork a out a ton but often small NGOa employ illegaly as they dont know what to do ,are employing other illegals or dont wnat to bother

Edited October 23, 2009 by RubbaJohnny

[jazzbo]

No question working illegally for a small non-registered charity, especially one based outside of Thailand, is asking for trouble... but if it is a major organization, let alone a charity with Royal Patronage, and it is for 6 months or less, and THEY tell you that they will not supply papers for a work permit, it is most likely that they have done it many times before and do not believe the effort involved is worth it. So your choice is either to accept the conditions or go elsewhere... and again, if a major registered NGO says they do not provide you with a work permit, and have had or currently have volunteers without work permits, the local officials are already quite aware of the situation...

...and telling some newbie who has been invited to or even paid to volunteer for a major registered charity without a work permit for 6 months or so means that he/she will end up in jail or deported is, to use the favorite word here, nonsense. Quoting statutes and FAQs from Ministry websites in my opinion does not always match the lowdown.

[jazzbo]

... and while the Moderators and Senior Members here are obviously very informed people, I do no see that they have any right to invoke The Infallibility of the Pope when they promulgate their opinions... and that is all even a non-Thai attorney could give in the LOS., an opinion.

[coolxten]

I've read the earlier posts, was wondering how long does it take for an organization to get a work permit for you?

Say you get a Non-Immigrant Visa type "O", then you get your work permit. Do you have to maintain your Type "O" visa? eg. is it ok to leave thailand and come back on a 30 day and continue to volunteer? or does your work permit void once you lose your type "O" visa because you left and re-entered on a single entry visa?

I found this link that says....

http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Thailand-Work-Permit.php

"Exemptions

Exemptions from the Work Permit requirement are granted to persons occupying the following professions:

- Persons who enter the Kingdom for the performance of any duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, arts, or sports "

Doesn't that mean if I volunteer to teach English I don't need a work permit? Am I reading the info wrong or is the link incorrect?

Thanks

Edited October 28, 2009 by coolxten

[Lite Beer]

An English Teacher needs a Work Permit and a Non Imm Visa.

You cannot work with Tourist Visas or 30 day entry stamps.