Phuket Immigration Office And 'tea Money'

[geoffphuket]

Last week I called in Phuket immigration office to pick up an address confirmation slip to renew my driving licences - which was simple enough, It's now just the tear off portion of a 90 day reporting slip. The officer then whispered "300 Baht" ! When I repeated his request in a loud voice he backed down and just handed it to me. I've since talked to two other people who paid up - the money going in his pocket with no receipt.

The officer in question sits on the far left of the front row desks, although they're probably all at it

geoffphuket

[gotlost]

Last week I called in Phuket immigration office to pick up an address confirmation slip to renew my driving licences - which was simple enough, It's now just the tear off portion of a 90 day reporting slip. The officer then whispered "300 Baht" ! When I repeated his request in a loud voice he backed down and just handed it to me. I've since talked to two other people who paid up - the money going in his pocket with no receipt.

The officer in question sits on the far left of the front row desks, although they're probably all at it

geoffphuket

Heck thats cheep. Hear in Chiang Mai we pay 500bt for a certific of residents. What's the problem?

[katabeachbum]

Last week I called in Phuket immigration office to pick up an address confirmation slip to renew my driving licences - which was simple enough, It's now just the tear off portion of a 90 day reporting slip. The officer then whispered "300 Baht" ! When I repeated his request in a loud voice he backed down and just handed it to me. I've since talked to two other people who paid up - the money going in his pocket with no receipt.

The officer in question sits on the far left of the front row desks, although they're probably all at it

geoffphuket

Heck thats cheep. Hear in Chiang Mai we pay 500bt for a certific of residents. What's the problem?

500 baht in Hua Hin too

Phuket used to be 200 baht upstairs, now its supposed to be free.

[stiggy]

It will be interesting to see how helpful they are with you in the future.

[geoffphuket]

It's FREE that's the problem. Anyone stupid enough to encourage and support corruption shouldn't be here.

[SurfRider]

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When applying for my 1st Retirement Visa, I was instructed to return in the afternoon to pick up my passport and bring a bottle of Black-Label "for my boss"

I asked if that was legal - she said "yes, and my boss will approve your visa" -- I dutifully complied.

Later, my friends rolled on the floor laughing - saying I can't believe they got away with that one again!

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[thaiphoon]

When applying for my 1st Retirement Visa, I was instructed to return in the afternoon to pick up my passport and bring a bottle of Black-Label "for my boss"

I asked if that was legal - she said "yes, and my boss will approve your visa" -- I dutifully complied.

Later, my friends rolled on the floor laughing - saying I can't believe they got away with that one again!

Actually, you applied for extension of stay based on retirement (not a visa) ... but your story made me laugh too

[MaryWorth]

Did you mention it to the foreign (I assume volunteer) guys who are there to help the foreigners?

[SurfRider]

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"Actually, you applied for extension of stay based on retirement (not a visa)"

Yes, I know and I apologize -- I keep using the colloquial terminology and not the politically correct version

"Did you mention it to the foreign (I assume volunteer) guys who are there to help the foreigners?"

No, this was 5 years ago and there were no such animals in residence -- only other foreigners fighting the same battle that I was.

After all the hoops that I had to jump through to get that "extension", I was just happy to obtain the stamp that allowed me to avoid interminable visa-runs for the next year -- A few extra Baht to grease the squeaky wheels of corruption seemed like a small price to pay . . .

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[xylophone]

It's FREE that's the problem. Anyone stupid enough to encourage and support corruption shouldn't be here.

That was my stance when I arrived here a few years ago, but then you get to realise that corruption is built in to every layer of officialdom here.

It seems easier to pay a few baht and get on with life, than worry about whether you will be able to operate/live here in a hassle free environment.......as someone has already posted, "After all the hoops that I had to jump through to get that "extension", I was just happy to obtain the stamp that allowed me to avoid interminable visa-runs for the next year -- A few extra Baht to grease the squeaky wheels of corruption seemed like a small price to pay".

[tominchaam]

It's FREE that's the problem. Anyone stupid enough to encourage and support corruption shouldn't be here.

Good to hear your opinion. If you reject in a nice way the likelihood you will get problems in the future is pretty small.

[Mario2008]

Always report this kind of cases to your embassy. If they receive enough complaints they might take action, together with other embassies.

[SurfRider]

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"Anyone stupid enough to encourage and support corruption shouldn't be here."

Sometimes it's also worth considering the flip-side of the coin. What if I had not complied and my Visa was denied or delayed? You are at the mercy of whoever processes your application.

When I returned to pick up my passport, they couldn't immediately locate it. There was a large group of many passports, but they couldn't find it in that group.

I was getting a bit worried that somehow it might have been lost or stolen and began to imagine the hassles and expense that I would have to endure to get a new passport in a foreign country-- not to mention the penalties of not having a proper Visa and all the work and expense of going through the hassle of obtaining another "O" Visa outside of Thailand and going through the "extension" process all over again.

Suddenly, the passport sleuth had a bright idea and checked a very small group of only a few passports, bound by a rubber-band, in the back of the tray. My passport was in that group.

Apparently myself and a few other selected newbies had been chosen to have the honor of providing the "refreshments" for their after-work party for that day.

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[RubbaJohnny]

Those who condone corruption do pay for it one way or another

[phetaroi]

A couple of points here.

First, to the OP: You complain about "tea money". Okay. Fair enough. There are two main types of complaints on this forum about immigration issues, as well as other Thai government issues. I would estimate that very roughly half the complaints are about the government officials not following the rules. The rest of the complaints are about when they do follow the rules.

Second to Thaiphoon: First, I want to say what a great source of info you are on immigration issues...you're a person to be listened to! I see you often mention that it's not a "retirement visa", and I know you are correct. On the other hand, the lawyers I've worked with call it a "retirement visa", and everyone at the Immigration Office I went to called it a "retirement visa". In fact, when I got my "extension of stay based on retirement", the "Thai official", whose English was excellent, looked at me with a big smile and said, "There, Khun Vincent, you're the proud owner of a retirement visa!" I found her command of English and English phraseology to be extremely interesting! Again, I know they're just taking the same short cuts in speaking most of us do in terms of calling it a retirement visa, but it appears that for all intents and purposes that's what it's considered.

[mca]

Basically if my paperwork is 100% correct and they're going to refuse me an extension because I'm not contributing to the "pot" then they'd better explain in detail what the problem is with my application and their reason for the refusal.

Call their bluff. It doesn't mean a rant and rave about corruption in the immi office. A polite "Could you explain what exactly is wrong with my application? The paperwork is in order." ought to do.

If you roll over and take it up the you know what then they've got you each and every time and they'll think foreigners are a soft touch. It's doing all of us a disservice.

[apetley]

Hmm, dynamite.

Now go back to your own countries and sort out the "top-line" government visa charges extorted.

And then join your armed forces so that you finally can win those wars that you wrought upon the world.

Stop loitering around these shores whining about the local ways and means.

Just get out of here if its that unbearable.

Whilst foreign ie western visa fees are high they are at least transparent and not subject to some official feathering his own nest.

My own wife, Thai, hates corruption and refuses to pay these 'add ons'.

As to joining the armed forces abroad, too old and hardly relevant to corruption in a Thai Immigration office.

You should hear the locals whining in the Thai village where I live when they have to pay an extra 20 bht for this or make a donation for that when they want something at the local Amphur.

As for the 'if you don't like it then leave' comment have you really no desire to make Thailand a better place?

[thaiphoon]

A couple of points here.

First, to the OP: You complain about "tea money". Okay. Fair enough. There are two main types of complaints on this forum about immigration issues, as well as other Thai government issues. I would estimate that very roughly half the complaints are about the government officials not following the rules. The rest of the complaints are about when they do follow the rules.

Second to Thaiphoon: First, I want to say what a great source of info you are on immigration issues...you're a person to be listened to! I see you often mention that it's not a "retirement visa", and I know you are correct. On the other hand, the lawyers I've worked with call it a "retirement visa", and everyone at the Immigration Office I went to called it a "retirement visa". In fact, when I got my "extension of stay based on retirement", the "Thai official", whose English was excellent, looked at me with a big smile and said, "There, Khun Vincent, you're the proud owner of a retirement visa!" I found her command of English and English phraseology to be extremely interesting! Again, I know they're just taking the same short cuts in speaking most of us do in terms of calling it a retirement visa, but it appears that for all intents and purposes that's what it's considered.

Thank you Phetaroi; I see some good postings from you too. Is important we all try to use correct terminology in the forum to avoid misunderstandings (or at worst wrong advice!). Non O-A visa is commonly referred to as a retirement visa, but extension of stay is never a visa. Immigration cannot issue visas, unless as part of the conversion process to extension of stay. In this instance the immigration officer simply used the wrong words as a way of saying "you're stamped in for another 12 months". Remember also many people search the forum for information, and uncorrected postings lead to more confusion. Nobody knows it all, including lawyers and immigration officials, but the former like their fees and the latter a bottle of black

[SurfRider]

"Basically if my paperwork is 100% correct and they're going to refuse me an extension . . . they'd better explain in detail what the problem is with my application and their reason for the refusal."

Your paperwork is only correct if the agent you're dealing with says it is. There is no such thing as "100% correct" in the world of Thai Immigration.

The requirements posted in the Imm. office are different from their website - information posted with other sources also varies from both of those sources and they change the rules faster than a speeding motorbike on Sukumvit and enforce them or not as the mood of the moment dictates.

One example: One Agent told me that an Embassy letter was valid until the expiration date on your passport -- in my case, almost 10 years. Another told me you need to buy a new letter from the Embassy each year. If the Agent chooses to enforce the latter, that means a day-trip to Bangkok including considerable expense for a piece of paper that was not required for an Expat who was in the same situation yesterday. There have also been reports that one Imm. office follows one set of rules and another a different set.

Anyone recall the requirement for every Expat in Thailand needing a Visa/Extension/Whatever to travel to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in a sleazy Bangkok slum to wait in line for a stamp? Or the requirement to provide copies of both sides of a valid credit card? Both defunct after the absurdness of each was revealed, but used to deny or delay Visas/Extensions/Whatevers while the silly rules existed.

I have to go again next month and it will be interesting to see what hurdles they've devised for this year . . .

( to the complainers who criticize the whiners here, I'm not doing either, but simply stating facts )

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[xylophone]

I don't think anyone is condoning corruption, just that the system is designed for the officials to be able to interpret the rules as they wish, making life difficult for the everyday person, Thais included.

With respect, one may be doing one's bit to fight corruption if one decides not to pay it/bow to it, however in the grand scheme of things it is endemic throughout Thai life, and starts high up in the pecking order, and nothing will change that in this country I am afraid.

Fight it if you wish, however it will not make one iota of difference, so learn to live with it, because you will never change it.

[Lite Beer]

Off topic post deleted.

[Lite Beer]

Unsuitable posts for Thai Visa deleted.

Please remember that Thai Visa is read world wide and by different cultures and age groups.

[Maestro]

...corruption...is endemic throughout Thai life, and starts high up in the pecking order, and nothing will change that in this country I am afraid.

Not endemic in the Immigration Division of the Royal Thai Police, as far as I could see from this forum. One or two immigration offices are notable exceptions.

Fight it if you wish, however it will not make one iota of difference, so learn to live with it, because you will never change it.

From posts in this forum I believe it can be changed when it happens at an immigration office, but with very few exceptions applicants for extension of stay are afraid to make formal complaints about it or simply do not want to go to this trouble.

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Maestro

[LivinginKata]

Last week I called in Phuket immigration office to pick up an address confirmation slip to renew my driving licences - which was simple enough, It's now just the tear off portion of a 90 day reporting slip. The officer then whispered "300 Baht" ! When I repeated his request in a loud voice he backed down and just handed it to me. I've since talked to two other people who paid up - the money going in his pocket with no receipt.

The officer in question sits on the far left of the front row desks, although they're probably all at it

geoffphuket

Yes, I had the same problem 2 weeks ago in Phuket Office. Needed the 'registration doc' for my driving license renewal. Used to have to go upstairs where a couple of nice girls processed everything, even made all the photocopies. Always asked for 100 baht, and I always replied it's free, but paid up anyway for the copies. Now the officer at the front desk writes out the slip, all very nice & efficient but I had to go out a buy the photocopies, then he asked for 500 baht 'payment'. I replied it's free and he quickly agreed and waived me off.

[sinbin]

Actually, you applied for extension of stay based on retirement (not a visa) ... but your story made me laugh too

Actually 'thaiphoon' you are wrong. Any permit stamp entered into a passport is legally classified as a visa. An 'extention of stay' is without doubt a 'Visa'. Anyone saying an extention of stay isn't a 'visa' is wrong.

[Maestro]

The experiences reported here about the Phuket office tend to indicate that the chief of the office is not in on it, whereas with another immigration office in the South where 5,000 or sometimes even 6,000 Baht are routinely and blatantly collected for an extension of stay one cannot help but wonder.

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Maestro

[Lite Beer]

Actually, you applied for extension of stay based on retirement (not a visa) ... but your story made me laugh too

Actually 'thaiphoon' you are wrong. Any permit stamp entered into a passport is legally classified as a visa. An 'extention of stay' is without doubt a 'Visa'. Anyone saying an extention of stay isn't a 'visa' is wrong.

Actually Thaiphoon is correct and you are wrong.

[Maestro]

Actually, you applied for extension of stay based on retirement (not a visa) ... but your story made me laugh too

Actually 'thaiphoon' you are wrong. Any permit stamp entered into a passport is legally classified as a visa. An 'extention of stay' is without doubt a 'Visa'. Anyone saying an extention of stay isn't a 'visa' is wrong.

You are wrong.

I know you are convinced that you are right and I won’t try to make you change your mind, just give you a link to this text from the immigration web site where they emphasise the distinction between the “visa validity” and “authorized length of your stay”, the latter being their way of calling a permission to stay, and an extension of stay is a short way of saying “Extension of Temporary Stay in The Kingdom” (title of extension application form):

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a84564-.html

Your are right, though, that immigration officials themselves often say visa extension, even on their website, when they mean "extension of temporray stay"

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Maestro

[sinbin]

You're correct 'Maestro' I am convinced that an 'extention of stay' is a visa, and anyone that says otherwise is wrong. One only has to 'Google' "visa" to have this confirmed. But I thank you for saying "You're right,...........". It's a debatable point, but I just hate it when someone says "you're wrong" when they are aren't in reality.

[Lite Beer]

sinbin, we are going off topic here with this discussion about terminology so let this be the last post about in this subject. If you want to see what difference it makes whether somebody talks about a visa or an extension of stay, go read the first post in this topic and see the uncertainty he has created about what he really has:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Non-imm-Exte...mi-t309156.html

Perhaps you don’t recognise the difference but people trying to answer him do and have to say “if you have a visa, do this, if you have an extension, do that”. Forget what you read on Wikipedia, we are dealing with everyday facts here.

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Maestro

//Edit: Lite Beer, my apologies. By mistake I edited you post instead of writing a new reply. -- Maestro