Why Was Thailand Never Colonised ?

[apetley]

According to Japanese history, they colonised Thailand (not invaded or occupied) in WW2

it was clearly an occupation.

I would put as much faith in that Japanese history book as I put in a Thai one.

[caf]

According to Japanese history, they colonised Thailand (not invaded or occupied) in WW2

it was clearly an occupation.

I would put as much faith in that Japanese history book as I put in a Thai one.

I agree. I was merely pointing out what the official Japanese version of history is.

Don't shoot the messenger

[OxfordWill]

Post number 6 answers your question but Id like to add that the british reparations for Thailand declaring war on us was 3 million tonnes of rice (or something like that). Shame they didnt ask for unlimited visa privileges for british citizens.

[Sherlocke]

THr British demands for reparations were severely curtailed by the Americans.

[caf]

THr British demands for reparations were severely curtailed by the Americans.

absolutely correct.

[thaihome]

THr British demands for reparations were severely curtailed by the Americans.

absolutely correct.

I have read that the British originally demanded that Thailand be ceded to them, settling eventually for the rice (About 10% of the yearly production at that time).

TH

[tigerboy]

before 1492 no potatos for europeans and no chili in SEA.

Also as important, before 1492 no coffee or latex rubber either, both are important as cash crops here in SEA. Coffee and condoms are *dam_n* essential to living here in TLOS, don't ya think?

[caf]

THr British demands for reparations were severely curtailed by the Americans.

absolutely correct.

I have read that the British originally demanded that Thailand be ceded to them, settling eventually for the rice (About 10% of the yearly production at that time).

TH

Don't think they asked for that but they wanted more financial reparations. I stand to be corrected. What is your source?

[A_Traveller]

^ Probable Source The Library of Congress Country Studies:-

Link

The article is entitled Pridi and the Civilian Regime

To be honest I'm not entirely convinced about this either, however the author [Donald M. Seekins] is a highly respected academic, and I don't have the time to disappear into the archives these days.

Regards

Edited October 27, 2009 by A_Traveller

[A_Traveller]

To answer the OP's question however, Thailand was, both by coercion and to a degree choice firmly within the British sphere of influence, viewed in that FCO phrase 'constituent of informal Empire'. Britain supported Thailand in most arguments with the French over borders and were by a dramatic margin, the core commercial investors and treaty partners. For example, the Bowring Treaty provided for reductions in import taxation, and extraterritoriality to British subjects.

British companies gained forestry and mining concessions and came to dominate Thailand’s foreign trade. Politically, influential British ministers ensured that their countrymen filled the key positions in Thailand's corps of well-paid foreign advisors. Most Thai princes went to England for their education, including the last two absolute monarchs, as well as many ministers and other high-ranking officials.

In other words Thailand, or more correctly Siam, had a structured close integrated relationship with the British.

Regards

[MrHammer]

(A bit like the Normans who many consider to be French but were in fact partially Dutch, covering some of Denmark and Germany too)

I don't mean to derail your impressive Thai history teachings, but I have to point out that the Normans were not Dutch. They were descendents of Viking invaders who were given the land by the Frank king (even then the French knew how to surrender), in return for keeping other Vikings out. The name Norman is derived from Scandinavian Nordmand or Northman, men from the north. Viking influence on Britain and the English language is hugely underestimated.

Additional conquests of the Normans (and vikings) include Iceland, Ireland, Russia (which they founded), they even made it as far as Malta, Constantinopel and New Foundland (some say they sailed up Missisipi). In other words, the Vikings kicked ass.

Edited October 27, 2009 by MrHammer

[Sherlocke]

In the UK we have Roman, Viking, French, Norma + + + influences in our buildings (look at our great Noman buidings), language (Roman numerals) and religion (French and Spanish influences), all on a Celtic (German) background... Thailand is exactly the same.

i like the broader view you are suggesting. putting the things in a much wider historical context.

but try doing long division with Roman numerals and than say thanks to the Hindu–Arabic numeral system and a Persian mathematician.

I agree 100%, which is the point I always make to Thais: why deny the strengths in your make-up??? Harking back to a 'culture' which never actually existed while rubbishing the elements that make up your identity is insanity...

The UK became strong because we took in, often were forced to, different words, numbers, phrases, ideas, concepts and everything else. The sooner Thais accept their great heritage as a mix from many different cultures and people, the better they will become and the more they will achieve in the future.

roman numerals: I V X L C D M

'arab' numerals: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 and one of the greatest idea evar, the "0"

nation states and claims of long and strong historical backgrounds, consistency and dating back the origin of 'the nation' ancient as possible and so on - Nationalism itself - that is an invention, ideology in the 18/19 century europe. it's a myth, developed by historian of that time, that became also a political concept.

you are right, if we look more thorough at the past we will find a true polycultural mixture, cultural exchange even in pre modern times, in the mediaeval times, in the ancient world. like you said, evidence we can find in architecture, rite, religion and languages. origin of words.

nationalism can be a plague. nationalistic mindset and stupidity you will found displayed by many people and it start with little things. just like the one who complained that at his return to america the first language he heard was spanish. or the ones that are afraid of a muslim takeover in the UK. the Christianisation wasn't that long time ago, the Windsors are actually of 'german' origin and so on.

if you say that you always make a point to Thais, its kinda a little bit stepping into the trap of nationalistic insanity. the accusation that Thais are übernationalistic is in some extent a projection, an eurocentric viewpoint. partly a supriority opinion and look down on thais with 'how they can dare' in mind and partly a wrong assumption that forms of nationalism in east and west are exactly the same.

never been colonised is still a different thing then not being free of any 'foreign' influence.

relatively speaking it is all a question of perspective.

if an extraterrestrial intelligence would analyse the sytem earth, they could came to the conclusion that in terms of expansion, spread and conquer new living space, sucessful evolutionary strategies and so on - the most prosperous species are nightshade plants like tomato, potato and tobacco plants and Capsicum with its fruit chili pepper. humans their dispersal vector.

i just want to point out another indicator of 'foreign' influence to what many seen as a typical feature of a region or nation - the local cuisine. before 1492 no potatos for europeans and no chili in SEA. but again a different thing and no answer to the question of colonised or not.

good post - one of the few that shows any real comprehension on (cultural) history.

It is sad that people especially on thaivisa believe the myths and constructions that are fed us as history are "facts" or "truths"

I believe the consensus of opinion is that it was the Portuguese who were largely responsible for the distribution of the chili, but if it is proved to that the Chinese had them before this, one will have to review the accepted history of the colonisation of the Americas....funny how a little red seed pod could completely overturn centuries of so-called "history"

[Sherlocke]

"Over the last 2000 years Britain has been completely bastardized. Thailand has a very similar history squeezed into the last 900 years - before then, Thai history is vague."

i think this shows a difference here - the history that in general Thai people are aware o is vague and inaccurate - the UK is one of the few countries that student s encouraged to examine their history and be critical of it - many other "western countries" Oz and US in particular are very fond of heroic story-telling rather than proper history.

(Dates and Kings are not history)

[Rumfoord]

before 1492 no potatos for europeans and no chili in SEA.

Also as important, before 1492 no coffee or latex rubber either, both are important as cash crops here in SEA. Coffee and condoms are *dam_n* essential to living here in TLOS, don't ya think?

chocolate or cocoa is an thing from the new world, the american continent. but coffee comes from the arab world/africa, started in Ethiopia and Yemen. got popular in the Ottoman Empire at its best times. for coffee thanks to the muslims.

coffee, in importance it ranks very close to the invention of the zero

with rubber you are right.

coffes and bananas got introduced to americas. same as chicken and horses, they got also lots of diseases from europa and there are theories that syphilis didn't exist in the old world before 1492.

and not forget tumbleweed. no Western films with a tumbleweed, driving by the wind, rolling across the silver screen before 1492. that plant got imported by Ukrainian/Russian settler.

[Nostraforce]

Post number 6 answers your question but Id like to add that the british reparations for Thailand declaring war on us was 3 million tonnes of rice (or something like that). Shame they didnt ask for unlimited visa privileges for british citizens.

Did Thailand ever have a british colonial administrator with more power then the king? This would be 'colonisation' in my book. Maybe add driving on the left side of the road because any sane person knows that the right side is the natural side to drive a car.

I remember reading something about a Thai-Persian advisor who got more powerful then the king in the 19th century, but I think later WWI broke in before official colonization by the British could be written in the books.

[phetaroi]

"Over the last 2000 years Britain has been completely bastardized. Thailand has a very similar history squeezed into the last 900 years - before then, Thai history is vague."

i think this shows a difference here - the history that in general Thai people are aware o is vague and inaccurate - the UK is one of the few countries that student s encouraged to examine their history and be critical of it - many other "western countries" Oz and US in particular are very fond of heroic story-telling rather than proper history.

(Dates and Kings are not history)

Good. King Arthur and Merlin will be relieved.

[phetaroi]

and not forget tumbleweed. no Western films with a tumbleweed, driving by the wind, rolling across the silver screen before 1492. that plant got imported by Ukrainian/Russian settler.

Huh? I thought the Son of the Pioneers harvested them.

[balo]

Without us Vikings this world would be very different.

Maybe except in Thailand same same

Edited October 28, 2009 by balo

[Rumfoord]

"Over the last 2000 years Britain has been completely bastardized. Thailand has a very similar history squeezed into the last 900 years - before then, Thai history is vague."

i think this shows a difference here - the history that in general Thai people are aware o is vague and inaccurate - the UK is one of the few countries that student s encouraged to examine their history and be critical of it - many other "western countries" Oz and US in particular are very fond of heroic story-telling rather than proper history.

(Dates and Kings are not history)

Good. King Arthur and Merlin will be relieved.

the best novels with the greatest influence on the develepment of the character King Arthur, the Knights of the Round Table, the invention of Lancelot and the Holy Grail, Percival, came from the french late 12th century poet Chrétien de Troyes. he shaped the legend, the myth as we know it today.

an early true european. (but that is the other topic)

[thaimate]

I should imagine it was because of the Double pricing that they made the invaders pay

[dogleg]

Without us Vikings this world would be very different.

Maybe except in Thailand same same

Except for Pratumnak Hill and Soi White House!

[sabaijai]

BS posts, trolls and Thai-bashing deleted.

[Rumfoord]

[Sherlocke]

Most Thai people seem to get their "history" from movies - as anyone who has seen recent films on King Arthur and "Braveheart" will know they are the most appalling source for history being wildly inaccurate and often politically loaded.

So the general Thai appreciation/perception on whether they were "colonised" or why they weren't "colonised" by the western powers in the 18th/19th centuries, is drawn from sources that are usually far from satisfactory.

[purplehaze]

Why Was Thailand Never Colonised?

Because Johnnie foreigner couldn't stomach the double pricing.

[Payboy]

Why Was Thailand Never Colonised?

I owned a horse that I never had to whip - not even once. Always cantered on a nudge, galloped on a prod and stopped on a whisper.

[Heng]

... and always showed up like clockwork to get their visas and purple stamps.

[CrossBones]

Thailand was never colonized because the Thais were so awkward, unreliable and difficult to do business with. On top of that the country was a dense jungle and was impossible to establish colonies without the willingness of the locals.

[Sherlocke]

Thailand was never colonized because the Thais were so awkward, unreliable and difficult to do business with. On top of that the country was a dense jungle and was impossible to establish colonies without the willingness of the locals.

.......and Malaysia, indonesia, Burma, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos etc all had no jungle???

....and locals were all willing?

[Payboy]

... and always showed up like clockwork to get their visas and purple stamps.

Pulled the blood from your head didn't it?

Edited October 30, 2009 by Payboy