Phuket Bag Charge Postponed To Next Year

[Pib]

Just watch the bins on the street for five minutes or so and you will see a thai person going through the rubbish and removing the plastic and metal and even the glass wait a little longer and you will see another.. this is a 24/7 operation and they take it all to be recycled and they make a little cash. Thais have been recycling for years. You don't need any thing like the 'Green Dot'. You don't need to teach what they already know

Agree totally with how garbage is picked-over for recyclables by the garbage trucks and/or people who get to the garbage bin before the garbage truck. And lets not forget the recyclables that family members save just to take and give to other less fortunate family member who then sell it.

O' how superficial to focus on the plastic bags and not the much greater amount of "plastic-packaged" goods contained within the plastic bags.

[Pearlgirl]

In Canada, instead of charging you for the plastic bags, most of the grocery stores give you a 2 cent credit on the plastic bags you don't use for your groceries (when you bring your own reuseable bag) - of course it would only be an estimate, but if you "might have" used 5 bags, you'll get a 10 cent credit. And all the stores sell reuseable bags, usually located around the store and at the cashier. Although the 2 cents is not much of an incentive for people in Canada, if the Thai grocery stores did the same it could be an incentive to use your own bags. Some of the stores also have a recycle bin for used plastic bags, but I've heard that they just send these to to the dump anyway?

A number of years ago we used to go to Mexico every winter. There were many many places that didn't even have proper (if at all) garbage collection and if you vacationed in a small town or area where there were a lot of Mexicans vacationing, the area turned into a garbage dump by the end of the vacation. Because of the increase in tourism in Mexico over the years, the government has now taken a stance on this issue and are educating people on recycling and garbage removal, etc. etc., and providing proper garbage removal services and recycling options, the country has really turned around and is a lot cleaner and more enjoyable to visit.

Thailand needs to educate their people and provide proper garbage removal services and recycling and insist on removing plastic bags from the stores - but it will take time.

[nputman]

Plastic packaging is not the only culprit.

Attempting anything is better than doing nothing.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/the-plastic-continent.html

It's a worldwide issue and not only from Thailand.

[backsoon]

Why on earth do they not supply only Biodegardable bags and save on all this hassel. Biodegradable bags should be the only bags available EVERYWHERE to include all shop outlets and are available at Makro right now !!

Nothin short of TOTAL BAN on manufacture/distribution of plastic bags will have any effect on the environment.

This is the only solution if we want the solution. Simple, fast, effective and obvious.

The govt keeps the money for 'education'. (They will have to find another way to give it away to the officials)

The public keep their money to spend it the way they want.

The sales will not drop, as we must consume what we have to.

No dubious money grabbing by retailers, street vendors, etc.

The bulk cost of plastic bags is 50bt/1000, that is 0.05bt each.

Charging 1bt/bag at a point of sale will not deter buyers, but will create a handsome

revenue source for retailers.

As to donating these moneys to 'good cause' ... Hmmm... They always get lost in process...

[KarenBravo]

Nothin short of TOTAL BAN on manufacture/distribution of plastic bags will have any effect on the environment.

Really?

And what about plastic water bottles, clingfilm, yogurt cartons, everything packed in tetrapack and the zillion other things that are made of plastic?

Should we just ban plastic altogether?

[David006]

While we end up with piles of these bags from our normal shopping, it never ceases to amaze me how much packaging comes with the goods we buy.

Ever order from a famous Japanese restaurant chain here? more plastic packaging than the cumulative amount of bags I get in one trip to the grocery store.

Exactly .....anything and everything we buy is wrapped in layers of packaging..( even bottle of milk or a chocolate bar gets put in a plastic bag it seems). refusing the bag for every minor purchase could be a start at least....could be an issue in some stores though as you would need to hang on to your "bin" !

[Crash999]

Nothin short of TOTAL BAN on manufacture/distribution of plastic bags will have any effect on the environment.

The bulk cost of plastic bags is 50bt/1000, that is 0.05bt each.

A ban on production would be highly unlikely as Thailand is one of the world's major exporters of plastic bags.

As for the cost, it's around 500 baht for a carton of 1000pcs not 50 baht. Nevertheless, charging for bags does benefit retailers greatly as it both discourages use and turns what was previously a cost into a revenue stream.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Crash999

[jonclark]

Instead of charging for the bags, wouldn't it be a better] to get ' money off' your shopping bill say a reduction of 1 -2 baht per reused bag if you use your own. This combined with the added 'incentive' of paying of new bags should you need to buy them would surely have a much quicker effect in reducing the over reliance on and over supply of plastic bags

[ableguy]

Why on earth do they not supply only Biodegardable bags and save on all this hassel. Biodegradable bags should be the only bags available EVERYWHERE to include all shop outlets and are available at Makro right now !!

My understanding is biodegradable bags take several years to break down why not make so they can be recycled, Tesco UK started a scheme last year where they gave away millions of heavy duty bags free to customers which could be reused for several years and by doing it they saved money ( but did they really nothing is free ) The answer may be no free bags period take your own, people would soon click on.

[robsamui]

Perhaps a directive (or incentive) should be offered to the big stores themselves. Their check-out operators have obviously been trained to provide a separate plastic carrier for each type of item in the trolley - veggies in one bag, tinned food in another and so on.

I was both amused and disgusted to find that when I went out from a dash in and out of Tesco lotus that with four items I was provided with three plastic bags. And when I put everything into one bag and left the others, the girl on the till was almost sneering at the stupid farang for not knowing the right way to do things.

[JetsetBkk]

just take your own bag dam_n it! Stop selling plastics at all...

Stop selling plastics? Who will sell me my plastic bag then?

[Cuban]

Perhaps a directive (or incentive) should be offered to the big stores themselves. Their check-out operators have obviously been trained to provide a separate plastic carrier for each type of item in the trolley - veggies in one bag, tinned food in another and so on...

Retailers know (I've seen research on this subject) that customers have a strong aversion to perceived food contamination from human food being placed in the same bag as pet food or cleaning products, if all your purchases are placed in the same bag you may have a bad shopping experience connected with that store. They would rather you took six extra bags than feel bad about their store, consider cat-litter and cornflakes in the same bag.

The assistant in your case probably wasn't too happy either that your cast off bags would also be seen as second hand (contaminated) by the next customer, so she probably would discard them anyway. I take them when offered - useful things bags, great for putting things in.

(And yes - when shopping I self pack most often and am not squeamish about mixed contents.)

[JetsetBkk]

Perhaps a directive (or incentive) should be offered to the big stores themselves. Their check-out operators have obviously been trained to provide a separate plastic carrier for each type of item in the trolley - veggies in one bag, tinned food in another and so on.<snip>

Yes. I got about 15 bags yesterday. Mind you, I was very clever putting stuff on the conveyor belt in the correct order: veggie, tinned, frozen, dry, veggie, tinned, frozen, dry, and so on. It's amazing how many extra bags you can get alternating the types of items.

[khaowong1]

Why on earth do they not supply only Biodegardable bags and save on all this hassel. Biodegradable bags should be the only bags available EVERYWHERE to include all shop outlets and are available at Makro right now !!

probably because the fat cats who manufacture and sell the current plastic bags, have a warehouse or two full of them, and aren't going to lose a satang switching to biodegradable bags in mid-stream.. there waiting on a huge infusion of money from the govt. to defray the cost of switching bags.. which won't happen in our life times.. Thai people look at me like I'm crazy when I try and explain to them that these bags when burned give off a toxic fume, which kills bugs, birds and probably a few people. I tell them, that Thailand must be the plastic bag capitol of the world, and they laugh, like that's a honor...

[siamgirl]

Why on earth do they not supply only Biodegardable bags and save on all this hassel. Biodegradable bags should be the only bags available EVERYWHERE to include all shop outlets and are available at Makro right now !!

'Biodegradable" bags in landfill produce methane. Much worse than Co2 as a greenhouse gas.

The launch of a plastic bag charging scheme which aims to reduce the amount of garbage generated on Phuket

Plastic bags are only the tip of the iceberg. What about all the packaging, newspapers, vege scraps, chicken bones etc etc. They'll still have all that stuff .. which is the bulk of the garbage in the landfill .. without the plastic bag holding it all together in neat little parcels.

As for all that organic matter (paper, bones, vege scraps etc) .. when that ends up in oxygen-less landfill it doesn't compost normally .. it produces methane too.

Cheap Alternative: .. If they want to do something practicable .. they will scrap the landfills ... put ALL the garbage through shredder machines and spread it out to compost naturally. Then bag it up and sell it.

More Expensive Alternative: ... Make a controlled landfill site where they can collect the methane produced and run generators with it. Feed the electricity back into the grid. It will burn cleanly and produce no greenhouse gases .. only electricity.

Never happen though .. things are only done for show here.

 

The most sensible post I've seen so far on this topic. Being half Thai (even though I grew up in Brisbane) and having spent a lot of time in Thailand with family, and having lived here full time now for 6 years I can say that Thai people already know how to recycle. Not an individual basis, but as a nation. There are hoards of people who make their living from collecting, sorting and selling garbage. The job gets done. This seems to be a more than usual problem because of the size of Phuket and the size of the high end consumer population there.

It's terrible to burn the garbage when it could be put to better use. Burning just creates more problems. Plastic bags are nothing. They are just containers for other plastic and organic waste most of the time. I fully understand the Thai habit of making a show of things. The plastic bag debacle is just that. It solves nothing.

 

[Maestro]

Nonsensical 'you know who' posts and the replies to them have been deleted. Please stop this nonsense.

--

Maestro

[Master Chief]

And by so this topic died!

RIP

MC

[koto]

It's not just plastic bags, but bottles (plastic & glass), building materials and every other kind of refuse imaginable. A more comprehensive approach needs to be applied here.

The gov't should enforce littering laws and assess penalties so that people will think twice before they throw garbage on the beaches, etc.

I don't ever remember Macro supplying plastic bags (outside of the vegetable & meat departments).

It makes me laugh when you've got half the population of bangkok walking around with a 'save earth save life' t-shirt on and yet a scheme that could have a massive environmental impact is delayed because the population needs educating.

Here's an idea for how to educate people - Put a sign in every shop, in thai, saying "Save the environment. Plastic bags are now 5 baht each"

Wow, that was fast.

Spot on, as soon as it starts to hit people in the pocket they become pretty eductated, pretty quick. If it cost say 2 baht to 'buy' a plastic bag at BIg C then that would put an extra 200 baht per month on the shopping bill of the average family.

So, what happens if you don't have any bags with you and you refuse to buy new bags. I think you'll find dumped plastic bags being replaced by dumped tolleys as people load all their bagless food into a trolley and push it home.

But in all seriousness its long overdue and the bags are a waste of resources in every aspect

It might be a good idea to also charge at least 50 satong per Bio-bag and also have a Reuse, Recycle, Refund program, the hungry would pick them up for the refund and maybe less bags would make it to the ocean and other waterways, killing water life, birds and so on

[jackr]

Just curious: How much does a big company like 7-11 or Tesco-Lotus pay for a plastic bag? I'm betting a lot less than 1 baht. Can this become a significant source of revenue for them? Should they be required to donate any "profits" to some environmental program? It's really win-win for them. You bring your own bag, they save money. You pay a baht for their bag, they make money.

7-11 are the worst ones for it. Would you like a bag for that bag of chips, sir? How about 15 straws for that little bottle of water inside that other bag?...

In Thailand we throw a lot of recyclable waste plastic and metal in the garbage bin every day, because we have no local place to drop it for recycling.

You may find it's being sorted through after, and particularly any ali cans or plastic bottles. While we have a separate recycle bin, there's really no need as the garbage removal truck people pile on the back and sort onsite. Depending how many tins of Tiger one has consumed during the month, we get anywhere from 20 baht to 100 baht for a big bin full at the local recycle place.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

In Thailand we throw a lot of recyclable waste plastic and metal in the garbage bin every day, because we have no local place to drop it for recycling.<snip>

In Phuket, we throw a lot of recyclable waste plastic and metal into the grass by the side of the road.

[OK, not me actually, but I wanted to copy Xonax's post. ]

I've seen people throw large plastic bags full of waste out of the back of a bus. I think they were aiming for the klong, but missed. School kids throw their finished Pepsi/Coke containers + bag + straw and anything else they were eating into the grass. Never a second thought about it. It's OK in the rainy season - the grass is long, but come the dry season, no grass, lots of plastic uncovered.

[tracer]

What are the public going to be made aware of?

The amount of rubbish on the Island, the state of the environment (though with the amount of development I don't think that's really an issue) or the fact the people will have to pay 1 baht (5 for foreigners) for a bag.

Are you saying that a Thai can have 5 bags for the same price as foreigners?? Will not solve the real problem very quick...

Doesn't matter to me as even with my solid plastic bag they STILL stuff the flimsy stuff at me...

[tracer]

Interesting how far ahead some countries are in this respect. I remember when I was hanging out in Amsterdam 35 years ago people brought their own reusable bags to the food stores.

Don't forget to reuse your Tesco,etc. bags for your trash at home instead of buying special "trash bags" that just add to the problem.

Charging for plastic bags still does not solve the problem with the ones left in the land fill. Recycling is the solutions letting people bring bag their used plastic bags to convenient places for recycling is the answer

Good they postponed it, starting it at the start of (probably) a kind of screwed up tourist season may not be the right way to introduce it.

Which reminds me, any chance to get those idiot yellows and reds of the street and set them to clean things up.... BY HAND.

[pooket]

Interesting how far ahead some countries are in this respect. I remember when I was hanging out in Amsterdam 35 years ago people brought their own reusable bags to the food stores.

Don't forget to reuse your Tesco,etc. bags for your trash at home instead of buying special "trash bags" that just add to the problem.

I agree. I use my bags as trash can liners in my apartment. When they're full, I tie them up and put them out for the garbage men. Saves money on buying bags, too.

[Sturbuc]

Well, of course there must be achange in policy of many retailers. Even if you're carrying any bag or the multi-usable one from Big C, you#re purchased items will be filled in a plastic bag. This happened many times in Tesco; they're not used to give away any items uncovered.

Anyway, THB1 is not enough for avoid the misuse of plastic bags. And: all the times we're collecting the bags but there's nobody who wants to use it again but the room maid (for the bin)...