Under The Brit

[peekint]

There is a bar, open a couple of months now, on Nimmanhemin Soi 11, called "Under the Brit" (UTB)

In a case of TIT, it is a live music pub located in a townhouse. Of course, the other three townhouses in the block are empty, for rent, and shall remain so, I'm sure. Why? because UTB, though operating under a restaurant license, plays the loudest live music I have ever heard in my life. They move humongous speakers out in from the the townhouse when performances start, generally from 8 or 9 pm. They play past midnight, as loud as they will go.

It's impossible to watch TV, read, think, study, or do anything at all during those hours, from Nimman Soi 9 to Nimman Soi 13 on the Srimangalajan side.

There are a couple of small restaurants across from UTB who are being forced to close as soon as UTB opens, because their premises become uninhabitable by customers as soon as the music starts. These restaurants use to be be open 6 to midnight. They now open noon to 8pm when UTB starts up.

I'm curious why there is nothing to be done by the local authorities? There is a residential condominium complex directly across from UTB, surely they should be able to take request some action?

I talked to the owner of a detached house on Soi 11. She said she contacted the police. The police verified that the venue had only a restaurant license, but told her someone would have to sue (fong rong) for enforcement!

This seems a bit odd, since I know several restaurateurs in the area who are regularly harassed by the police for not chasing customers away before midnight since they interpret the midnight closing rules as meaning the doors are shut, locked and the lights are out. One was forced to get an entertainment license because he played recorded background music for his diners.

Anyone know anything about Under the Brit?

Why do they get this special treatment to the detriment to the residents and other businesses?

Must be owned by someone with a lot of power in Chiang Mai!

[chiang mai]

Nasty stuff indeed, I can't help but I do seriously hope you find a quick and easy resolution and that other expats from CM actively contribute to a solution soon.

[pjclark1]

Noise pollution by problem Thai families seems tolerated out here.

Business usually pay off the police in order to do this.

Mandalay in Moon Mueng is just the same, been going on for 1 year.

The only cures appear to be

1) move away

2) hire thugs to smash the place up

Rule 1 in Thailand, never buy anything you aren't prepared to walk away from.

Hopefully you only rent and so can disappear with only the loss of your deposit.

Edited November 23, 2009 by pjclark1

[sevenhills]

You answered your own question.......Must be owned by someone with a lot of power in Chiang Mai!

It's not what you know!!!!!!! (and unless you complain to the authorities in Bkk nothing will be done).

As you know Thais are very considerate Haaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[femi fan]

It truly staggers me sometimes both the selishness and ignorance that some humans display. Whether both are at work here, or just the sefishness, i hope the OP finds a quick solution. Forgetting for the minute about any power the owner of this place has, just what kind of person is he that he just doesn't give a flying monkeys about all others living or working anywhere near his establishment?

Unreal.

And i haven't even thought about the kind of customers that are going there!

[femi fan]

You answered your own question.......Must be owned by someone with a lot of power in Chiang Mai!

It's not what you know!!!!!!! (and unless you complain to the authorities in Bkk nothing will be done).

As you know Thais are very considerate Haaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Oh i bet, with some inventiveness, that something can be done. What about all those who live in the vicinity? What about all the others who work nearby? They're not all going to just turn the other cheek.

Perhaps the owner is a bangkok person, which might explain their total and ruthless selfishness.

I hope to read on this thread very soon a bit of sanity prevailing, and that the owner loses masses of face in being asked to curb his extreme selfishness and blatant disregard for other people's health. It's a pity we can't have these people paraded in such a way that the degree to which they cause suffering in others is the same degree to which they lose face in public. Cinemas would be out of business...

[Artamus]

just what kind of person is he that he just doesn't give a flying monkeys about all others living or working anywhere near his establishment?

I've yet to meet any owner of a noisy establishment who care one jot about others. If they did they wouldn't open such a place.

[cmsally]

Wow I sympathize with you if that goes on all night. I went to the dentist opposite about 7pm and they were really noisy then.

It really is serious noise, someone needs to do their homework and then pull a few strings. It is possible, a (Thai)friend of mine just got a karaoke place opposite from him closed down.

In fact I think you will find many Thais hate noise as much as foreigners.

I would suggest calling about the for rent units to try and find out who the owner is and try to tactfully find if that unit is rented or the bar run by the owner.

[Sansai Sam]

This is a widespread problem in Thailand. My only problem is the inconsiderate neighbors who allow their dogs to run free at night so they can pack and howl and bark all night keeping us awake. I have friends who own a condo in Punna Residence on Nimmanheiman Soi 6. They have it up for sale and have moved out because of the nightclub music surrounding them. Said they couldn't bear another night. Another friend has his guesthouse in Thapae for sale because the music from Mandalay has killed it. Unfortunately for these guys the music has probably also killed any chance of selling. Its all about who pays the police more.

[elektrified]

This is a widespread problem in Thailand. My only problem is the inconsiderate neighbors who allow their dogs to run free at night so they can pack and howl and bark all night keeping us awake. I have friends who own a condo in Punna Residence on Nimmanheiman Soi 6. They have it up for sale and have moved out because of the nightclub music surrounding them. Said they couldn't bear another night. Another friend has his guesthouse in Thapae for sale because the music from Mandalay has killed it. Unfortunately for these guys the music has probably also killed any chance of selling. Its all about who pays the police more.

Good luck to your friend selling his/her condo at Punna Residence! There is nowhere to park and at night the noise is unbearable. I can't imagine anyone buying there.

[Maejo Man]

There have been several instances where places like this have mysteriously burnt to the ground overnight. The Thais seem to have this sort of thing well organised. I would say it's only a matter of time

Your Tessabahn is also a very good avenue for complaint.

[KevinHunt]

 No-one has asked the obvious question, so I can only assume that I'm out of touch. What does 'Under the Brit' mean? Not some sort of sexual innuendo is it?. If it's a meeting place for young girls looking to get beneath British men then I'm lookking for my ear-plugs and going out.  

Edited November 23, 2009 by KevinHunt

[keo]

what kind of music is played? Are there pretty uni girls there? How much is the beer?

Sounds like a shit situation. My advice - ditch your convenient but overpriced Nimman abode (if you are able to), move a little further out to a bigger place with a big garden, where it's nice a quiet. I live off of canal road, near Best Western Hotel, it's about 5-10 mins drive to Nimman, but it's quiet as you like here. I can read, think, watch DVDs til my heart is content.

[ChiangMaiFun]

This sounds truly awful - noise is such a pollutant here - I hope that it isn't owned by a Brit! is it western music?

[rohitsuk]

My deepest sympathies, it sounds like a living nightmare but short of borrowing a rocket launcher from the army, there may be no solution.

The world gets noisier by the minute and the means of making a noise are cheap and widely available, including to those without the brains and decency to use them sensibly and with due consideration for others. Thailand possibly seems nosier to westerners because so much more goes on outside or with the windows wide open, than in chillier climes.  Would it be worth giving up electricity to achieve quiet ?  Probably not but it's quite a thought.

I dream of a device the size of my mobile phone, which when pointed in the direction of excessive electrically produced noise fries the circuits of the amplifier, something like the bombs the Yanks used in Iraq to fry the communication systems. Oh please Santa Baby !

And a collar that progressively tightens as the dog continues to bark. But I want it put round the owner's neck not the dogs as I love dogs and hate owners who are too lazy and selfish to care for, train and properly control their poor unfortunate pets.  

Ah well, it's all waiting in heaven or somewhere.

pjclark was certainly right with don't buy anything you are not prepared to (or cannot afford to) walk away from in Thailand. I would go further when it comes to property and say, don't buy anything just rent.  We bought a house in a quiet and secluded little backwater of AM nearly two years ago and whilst there is currently virtual silence  for about 80% of the time, that could change any day should, Under the Brit, decide to open a branch in one of the several empty houses behind us. Unlikely for sure but there are many reason why peace and quiet might be irretrievably lost and we are surrounded by vacant land.

Next year we plan to move a little out of the city to a house with a larger garden and so plan to let our own house and with the proceeds rent another.  Should Under the Brit decide to go rural, or a karaoke bar, welding workshop or heavy industrial building site drop from heaven beside us, we would just move out so soon as we could find another suitable house to rent.  The loss of the two months security deposit would be a small price to pay for getting the hel_l out from, Under the Brit, although the hope is that it will not happen as one moves further from the madding crowd. Renting another house would be easy but selling because of excessive noise, difficult at the best of times, would be impossible in the present market.

Incidentally, long term rents at typically 3-5% of estimated resale price are terrific value in CM and there are lots to choose from and many are, or can be, unfurnished.

[bangkok blue]

Peekint,

I know the owners of this bar pretty well, they are nice Thai people who do serve many Thai dishes so have every right to be classed as a restaurant. It is not a "Townhouse" as such but a block of 5, 3 floor units that could be used as shops (as some of them have) a bar (such as UTB) or a house (as some are still unoccupied) however the style of them is more of a shop, restaurant, bar style. The speakers are moved from upstairs to downstairs when it's not a band night. When I walk from my condo to the bottom of soi 11 I can't hear them, so doubt those in soi 13 can either. A slight exaggeration on your part IMO. The only small restaurants opposite from UTB is a Jok restaurant, who I also know and he usually closes at 9pm or thereabouts and next door is a juice / smoothie shop which closes well before the band ever start at around 7pm and only opened about 2mths ago. Further down this soi, towards Srimankalajarn road, is Dayli bar which is open til around 1am and I have never seen it close because of this, the other end is Sucasa (A Spanish Tapas restaurant) which usually closes around 10pm anyway and did so before UTB opened (My GF office is almost next to it so I know this for sure). There is also a noodle shop that has never stayed open til midnight in the whole time I have lived in Chiangmai. So think you should get your facts straight!!!!

Instead of venting your thoughts on here, have you actually gone and spoke with them to try and reach some sort of amicable compromise?

Incidentally they only play "Live" Music on Friday and Saturday nights. Other nights the "CD" music is at a much lower volume.

Yes, on a live night it's loud, but I have been there many nights and they usually stop about 12-12:30am. Even more so now as the police were there a few weeks ago, when I was there, as the entertainment license they did have had ran out. One of the owners, a friend of mine, was arrested and fined for no license. I believe this was an oversight and now rectified (according to him anyway). If they were getting "Special treatment" as you would put it doubt he would have been arrested and paid 7k to the old bill.

Monkey and Warm both stay open beyond midnight. Entertainments licenses for premises under 1 yr have to be renewed every 3mths. Also the Condo you mentioned contains many customers that frequent that bar quite often. If special treatment is being given to anyone it's by the places that have much richer owners and those can milk them for special treatment!

The band is quite good so instead of being a grumpy stick in the mud, pop in and make a request for your favourite song and I'm sure they'll oblige.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

you could hurl stinky fish grinds and other offensive olfactory agents onto the property.

didn't the CIA figure out a way to make a premise stink so bad enemies, terrorists etc would not inhabit it? In the same vein.

What smell do Thai's find most offensive?

I think the loudness might be an exageration because I live not to far away and can't hear anything over there. It's drown out by a bar that is closer. Still though its not so loud I can't enjoy life. After a while you get used to bad karoke etc. At least it covers up screeching of cats and barking of dogs.

[madjbs]

I stayed on soi 6 for a while a couple of months ago and didn't hear a thing.

[Paagai]

As a Farang you should be careful how you approach complaining about such venues. The owners are often "connected", otherwise they wouldn't be getting away with it. If you complain too much you may find you have some problems of your own by way of retribution.

[piercefilmlid]

As a Farang you should be careful how you approach complaining about such venues. The owners are often "connected", otherwise they wouldn't be getting away with it. If you complain too much you may find you have some problems of your own by way of retribution.

I agree, to a point.

Some time ago, I attended an outdoor venue with a very loud band on stage. No doubt by way of competition, a Thai establishment to the rear of our table fired up a couple of huge loudspeakers. The noise was intolerable.

I explained to my Thai company that I would love to stay, but the noise was too much for me. At that, one of them marched over to the venue with the speakers and pulled the plug on them. They were silent for the rest of the night.

I sympathise with the OP, and, maybe, with care, he could be a catalyst for a Thai to take action. Just a thought.

Rgds

[Trickcyclist]

We are now at a stage where piece and quiet need to be purchased at premium prices.

I moved out of town to live in the boons to get away from noise pollution.

However, the fields behind me were occupied and used by people who have no consideration for anybody:Guard dog tied-up in tropical heat barking incessantly 24 hours a day, wood saws going at Concorde decibel levels etc.

When I told my local Thai friends that I complained to the wealthy owner of the property they advised me to desist as a visit in the middle of the night by

people with automatic weapons would not be out of the question.

Recently, people working the place appeared with a digger and tore up my water main and almost tore down my electricity cables.

Fortunately, I spotted them before they did a runner and my wife and I stood there until they fixed it.

I asked my wife to ask a few discreet questions while they were pootering about and guess what? They were squatting on the land and had been for years fighting a rear guard action with the government (and everyone else) about possession. The government, chokedee mak mak, finally won the case and they are gone, but not before one of them took out a neighbouring farmer with a chopper as a parting gesture, necessitating 10 stitches to the head.

Bliss, quiet, peace and joy, Thank God

[doggie888888]

The band is quite good so instead of being a grumpy stick in the mud, pop in and make a request for your favourite song and I'm sure they'll oblige.

A person with a legitimate concern about peaceful enjoyment of his own property without detriment to anyone else is a "grumpy stick in the mud"? Oh dear.

[keo]

rent the two adjacent units, open a heavy metal bar in one, and a techno bar in other other. fight fire with fire!

[lioness]

If it was me I would firstly speak to the owners of the establishment, nicely and with a smile on my face. No good jumping in at the deep end when they might just tone it down a bit by a simple request.

[peekint]

As the original poster, I would like to thank all of you who posted helpful and constructive comments. I found much of the information offered quite useful.

I understand some of the local property owners have now engaged a solicitor and are putting together a complaint which will go first before the Tessaban (as I see it spelled above), and then, if no success, before the governor. Of course, the time frame for that sort of thing is long, but the shoe will fall one way or the other eventually.

As for the poster above trying to address my stick-in-the-muddiness directly, I'd like to offer a few clarifications.

I don't own property in the area, nor do I live there (though I did so back when Nimman was quiet - Longan trees and barking dogs were the menace). However, I have watched Nimman grow and see how businesses are killing the goose that laid the golden egg by poisoning it with noise, excessive density (lack of parking), and general un-neighborly disregard. It's a shame really.

I went back to do a bit of fact-checking.

The Juk shop used to close at midnight (or later).

Under the Brit is indeed located in one unit of a four-unit townhouse building (euphemistically referred to as a "home office" building). The other three units are vacant.

Under the Brit is indeed located at the Srimangalajarn side of Soi 11, so any reference to "not hearing it" at the Nimman end is not pertinent.

Soi 6 is on the wrong side of Nimmanhemin Road.

As for Monkey and Dayli, I would add this.

Monkey Club has made a concerted effort for many years to be a "good neighbor" in Nimman. They have managed parking and added car parks for that purpose, scattered throughout the area. Their concerts are well organized, do not go on every weekend, and are in a more appropriate (that is, larger and more isolated from residences) venue.

Dayli seldom, if ever, has live music, it's volume is quite subdued. Likewise, Dayli is located at a commercial end of the street (no residences nearby). Their biggest fault is that, because they are popular, they create parking problems. For that, they have continued to work closely with neighbors to alleviate that annoyance, including providing a parking attendant to help direct traffic on busy evenings.

If the poster who enjoys the performances at Under the Brit has made any reader think that the problem is exaggerated, I invite you to visit Nimman Soi 11 at about Grace Dental Clinic on a weekend night (weeknights are not much better). If you have the opportunity to enter an upper floor of any building nearby, do so. Any doubt will be dispelled.

I remain a stick in the mud for these sorts of things, I guess. I fail to see how it would not disrupt the enjoyment of the patrons of UTB at all to have the volume at a level appropriate for their local enjoyment. However, is it not selfish for both the owner and patrons to presume that everyone in a 300m radius wants to listen to the same music, at the same volume, at the same times as the paying customers?

Anyway, that's my last on this. It's not really my issue. I have nothing for or against UTB per se. My post was more out of curiosity after happening on a local resident I know at a restaurant and her relating the story and telling me the police refused to do anything. It was really more a question of trying to understand the law in Thailand on these issues.

Again, I thank you for all your helpful information.

[bangkok blue]

If you don't live there then can't see the point of your post to be frank. Yes the bar is in a residential area and if some of your friends have complained to the point where a solicitor has become involved then they could possibly save themselves a great deal of money by going and speaking to one of the three owners. Usually one of them is always there and all of them are very reasonable. If they don't know some residents are upset then how can you expect them to rectify the problem?

The reason I mentioned Dayli was that you said that many restaurants now close due to UTB where as it appears it has only affected one, the Jok restaurant.

As far as Nimmanahemin was back in the day, I'm afraid that is what you call development in the modern day and has happened and is happening all over the world and not just Nimmanhemin road, Chiangmai.

I will personally forward this forum about UTB to the owners. I suggest that you also advise the people with a gripe to go and visit them so a compromise can maybe reached and everybody who enjoys the music can be happy, those who don't, are happy and the police can use their time on other things.

Love, peace and hair grease.

[goldfinger]

open a durian shop beside......

[innovator]

Better get the hel_l out of there and find a new place to live. Ditch the deposit money and move further up north to the border.

Or, head for Udon or at least Chiang Rai. Fight fire with money.

Of course, then you will need to move out of the next place too because of the same problem.

Noise is absolutely everywhere in every city here. I have already ditched four apartment deposits in three cities due to music issues from rude owners.

[NancyL]

I've never seen the attraction of loud music, ever since I was a teenager and first experienced live music so loud that it vibrated my heart. I can't count the number of times that I've walked from a restaurant once a band started playing so loud that you couldn't talk with your dining companion. I just don't get it. What is the attraction of loud music?

Also, the owners/managers of this establishment may not realize how the type of noise pollution they're generating is much, much worse for people living at higher floors. We just moved out of a 15th story condo to a two story townhouse at ground level and I can't get over all the "quiet". Sure, we hear many passersby, but they're selling produce, ice cream or going door-to-door for some Christian group (they really have their work cut out in this nieghborhood!) But we don't hear anything after midnight until 7 or 8 am. It helps that all the neighbors seem to keep their dogs inside and the soi is too narrow for much traffic.

But the key is that we're on ground level and just hear the noise within a 50 ft radius. When we lived on the 15th floor we heard all the noise from a 1/4 mile around.

[Ulysses G.]

I LOVE loud Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Husker Du, but not Thai music. I rather turn it off completely. Actually some Issan music might be OK.