Lost In Us Visa Process

[LEDFOOTPILOT]

30 year old thai lady with 4yr old daughter was denied US tourist visa 3 times. 1st time inadequate documents. 2nd time interview with embassy agent with no patients denied entry. 3rd time mistake on application showed tourist visa request when it should have been a k1 fiance visa. Agent wrote, suggest you try k1 application. She quit 6 month factory job to be with me and get visa. Her family lives in maharsarakam (farmers). I contacted attorney in US and was told that the k1 would also be denied do to 3x's denied even for different application. I was told marriage is the only way. And what about adoption of her 4yr old daughter?. I would consider marriage, but would like more time with her in US to be 100% sure. well as close to sure as any one can be. not sure how to proceed. THANKS

[moe666]

Submit the paper work and all they can do is say no. it sounds like she needs help from you filling out and submitting the paper work.

[a2396]

Unless you are familiar with the US visa process, I would suggest you get a professional agent to assist you. Getting a fiancée visa is not a "piece of cake" either and there can be numerous reasons for denial. The waiting period can be 18 months or longer. I certainly would not run out and get married just to get her into USA. I am sure you have read enough stories about Thai/Farang marriages to give you concern about any "quickie" marriage. Good Luck.

[Lite Beer]

Moved to the Visa Forum

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Unless you are familiar with the US visa process, I would suggest you get a professional agent to assist you. Getting a fiancée visa is not a "piece of cake" either and there can be numerous reasons for denial. The waiting period can be 18 months or longer. I certainly would not run out and get married just to get her into USA. I am sure you have read enough stories about Thai/Farang marriages to give you concern about any "quickie" marriage. Good Luck.

Reckon 18 months processing might be about it if the K1 petition has to be file in California where they have a real overload in immigration cases.

However, a friend from Washington state is now in town to pickup up his K1 and head back. I asked him yesterday how long it took from start to finish. Five (5) months! Pretty good.

Mac

[Pakboong]

It seems to me that if you have a reason to be cautious, perhaps the state department's caution is also warranted.

[gotlost]

The number one item they are looking for is her reason for returning to Thailand. Does she have parents, does she have children, does she have money in a bank, does she own property, does she have a business, etc. etc. And does her future have funds to support her. They do not except or require a sponsor. Pay the fee and go to an agency.

[j0hnga1t]

Ledfootpilot,

it's a tough process. I wouldn't worry about the denial of tourist visas if you are going to apply for a K-1. My fiancee was denied two times for a tourist but approved for a K-1. WHY DO THEY DENY A TOURIST VISA? Because they are afraid she is going to come here and get married to you or overstay. Well the K-1 basically says I intend to marry her and she is going to immigrate to the US. I wouldn't worry about it.

I did it myself, filed at the Laguna Nigel, CA service center. It took just under six months to get it. Mailed the application off at the end of April 2009. Embassy in Bangkok rec'd it August 2009. Took a month and a half to prepare the next phase of paperwork and after mailing it to the Embassy on Friday October 9th in Bangkok, she rec'd an email on Monday Oct 12th saying she had an interview scheduled for Oct 20th. It was quick and painless. She picked up her visa on Oct 22nd.

It is important to know how to answer the questions and organize your paperwork. The forms are redundant and not always clear. Trying to get help via their toll free number is impossible. A friend who is a former Special Agent with Immigration and Customs Enforcement said he had problems getting help too! It's a sad state of affairs. You have to be very thorough. I put together a 2 inch book with plenty of attachments and footnotes because there was not enough room on the forms to write a full Thailand address. I printed airline records, copy of my passport entry and exit stamp, letters from friends who have met her during their trips to thailand, plenty of photos, phone records, etc.....if you present them with a good product/application that is organized and easy to follow and read, you're ahead of the game and add credibility to your relationship. When my fiancee went in for her interview, they didn't ask to see any of the updated relationship stuff (May 2009 to Sept 2009 time frame). I think it's because I gave them overwhelming evidence with the visa package.

Feel free to email me with any questions. Even if you get someone to do it for you, you have to know how the process works and what forms are required. TRUST NO ONE. Educate yourself.

I leave Dec 25th to go to Thailand and I'll return to San Francisco on Jan 8th with my fiancee

[sirineou]

I think that the attorney you talked to might be right. Having applied for, and denied a visa so many times will raise red flags that will make getting a fiancé visa difficult, applying for a fiancé visa just to see what happens is not a good idea , it costs $ 450 .00 ( if I remember correctly) and it is non refundable, ( the first time I applied for my now wife, they denied my application do to insufficient documentation, an kept my application fee) I had the option of filing an appeal ( costs $ 350 , and you will probably loose the appeal), so I re-applied and paid an additional, application fee of $ 450. They tell you that when your fiancé comes to the USA you have 3 months to marry and apply for change of status , what they don’t tell you is that the change of status application costs $ 1,080.00. as I said before with a fiancé visa you must marry with in 3 months not enough time in my opinion to be to get a realistic assessment of how well she will adjust to US life. So getting married in Thailand might be the best option at this stage of the game for you, unless you are very good at following paper work. I would suggest you seek the help of an immigration attorney. I have 7 year experience as a licensed real-estate broker in Florida, where we are not required to use real-estate attorneys and I have hundreds of transaction where I acted as the transaction coordinator from sale to closing ,I am very comfortable with chasing paperwork, and let me tell you, I had a difficult time doing the finance visa on my own.

Good luck

PS send me a message if you need any additional information from my fiancée visa experience.

[moe666]

A friend hired a lawyer to help with his wifes immigration paper work from the Philippines it took 2 years and he still had to do the lions share of the paper work. So it is a crap shot whether the money for a lawyer is well spent or not.

[DirectorIntegrityLegal]

Unfortunately, particularly in this area of the world, there are many who claim to be licensed US attorneys who are not. Always ask to see a Bar Card or other certificate from a State Supreme Court.

That being said, prior tourist visa denials should not have an adverse impact upon a later K1 application unless the applicant lied on the previous application. This could lead to issues of misrepresentation.

Some K1s are relatively straightforward while others can get bogged down. In my opinion, most people hire me to forestall delays and unforeseen problems. Others simply hire an attorney for convenience. That being said, Manila is notorious for delays as they are an extremely high volume post, but 2 years is quite a while for a K1, did the case go into administrative processing?

Marriage is not necessary for a visa and would actually delay her traveling to the USA because the Immigrant visas (and K3s) take more time to process. That being said, the K1 bifurcates the Green Card obtainment process so she will get the visa and be allowed to enter, but then she must still adjust status stateside. Some couple simply prefer to wait and process an immigrant visa providing lawful permanent residence upon entry.

I hope this was helpful.

All the Best!

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

[j0hnga1t]

to get an attorney or not get an attorney....who do you trust. It's hard to say. I spoke with a friend and he told me that he hired an attorney to do the paperwork. When he got the end result (after spending $3,000), it looked like a prosecution report (he is an investigator with Dept of Homeland Security) meaning it was organized with footnotes/disclosures and evidence of the relationship which was referenced back to a summary document etc... He told me that I am detailed oriented enough to do it myself (being an investigator too). I had no problems with USCIS or the US Embassy. I know how to organize things and tell a story.

It's all a question of how comfortable you feel. If you don't feel comfortable filling out the forms, the money will be well spent!

I agree with Ben Hart

Good luck!!!

[temo1051]

my wife, girlfriend at the time was refuse a USA tourist visa twice. first time not enough funds in the bank. once the funds were increased to 250k thai baht she was refused again for the same reason with no amount given as what was needed. this is not a bar girl and has no police record and her deceased father was a BIB and currently has family in the middle ranks of the military.

The American embassy here in Bangkok is not very cooperative.

What finally worked was for me to apply for a K1 for her from the states. Paperwork was easy and everything was handled through the mail. It took about 3 months to get the visa and it was sent to the American embassy in Bangkok and she was notified when it arrived.

We were married in the states and she was issued a conditional green card that just recently had the conditions removed and is good for 10 years.

[j0hnga1t]

That's AWESOME temo1051. Yeah they aren't very co-operative. I can understand their position, but what I don't understand is why they don't have the "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" sign a declaration or something under penalty of perjury saying that they will NOT marry her/him or harbor her/him if they overstay. So if anything like that does happen they could be charged with making a false stmt. If their intentions are good, then they'll sign, if not good then they would probably not sign. I think it unfair that they discriminate against poor people. They do play god. They probably heard it all before, but that is no excuse to not give everyone a fair shake. I went to the Embassy in Bangkok to speak with someone and they wouldn't give me the time of day. I'm sure he'd be just as pissed if he came up to me and ask for help in the states because he'd been scammed (I'm an investigator) and I sent him away saying I can't help you.......

[DirectorIntegrityLegal]

I do not mean to be a constant Embassy apologist, but it honestly sounds as though they made the correct decisions pursuant to relevant immigration law. Based upon the fact that your fiancee/wife did apply for permanent residence it can be inferred that she had undisclosed immigrant intent in both tourist visa applications and under 214b of the Immigration and Nationality Act they are compelled to deny a tourist visa to someone who they believe is an intending immigrant. In a way, you may have gotten lucky in that her denial precluded traveling to the US on a tourist visa as we have seen more and more travelers on such visas being put into expedited removal proceedings by the Customs and Border Protection Service for reasons comparable to 214b. If this had happened to your wife, then she would likely have been barred from reentering the USA for 5 years and would have needed to file an I-212 application in order to ask permission for reentry.

Money is not the primary factor that they are looking at when adjudicating tourist visa applications. They are balancing the strong ties or weak ties that an applicant has to the USA, Thailand, and any other foreign country. The officers try to look at the "whole picture" in order to ascertain whether or not an applicant should be issued a tourist visa. Unfortunately, both currently and in the past, many couples used these visas to go to the US and apply for adjustment of status which is exactly how these travel documents are NOT supposed to be used. As a result of that trend, the officers have applied ever increasing scrutiny to these applications. It is frustrating, but the law is clear and those whom the officers believe are likely to use the tourist visa to immigrate should be turned down.

Rather than relaxing tourist visa regulations, in my opinion a better method of dealing with the issue would be cutting down the time it takes to obtain a K1, K3, or Immigrant visa. That being said, there was a time when it took almost 3 years to obtain an Immigrant visa and now it only takes 11-12 months, so the system is better, but there is still room for improvement. At the same time, having USCIS pre-adjudicate K1 and K3 petitions seems redundant particularly since the Consular Officers seem to conduct a similar inquiry. If USCIS stopped adjudicating K1 and K3 petitions and the funds used by USCIS to pre-authorize K1 and K3 petitions was diverted into the US Embassies where they accepted these applications directly I think the process would be more streamlined. This is particularly true when one considers the fact that USCIS gets another bite at the adjudication apple as K1 & K3 visa holders must apply for adjustment of status with USCIS once in the USA.

Sorry for the rant and this is just one man's opinion.

All the Best,

Ben Hart

US Immigration Attorney

Integrity Legal

Edited December 15, 2009 by DirectorIntegrityLegal