How Pedantic Can They Get? Another Sakon Nakhon!

[bdenner]

Yesterday a friend went into Sakon Nakhon Immigration to renew his OA (Retirement Visa) Extension for the 6th time (1st in that office) and was knocked back!

Over three months ago he topped up his bank account in Udon to 812,000 Baht. Two months ago his Thai Wife needed some cash in a hurry, he was busy so he gave her his ATM card saying to her only take 10,000 Baht. She took 15,000 out. As you might imagine he was fuming but the following day went straight into the bank and redeposited the money. Too late damage done!

Well they picked it up, would not listen to the TW’s explanation and refused the extension.

They did come up with a solution though, they gave him a 60 day Tourist visa for 1900 Baht and told him to come back then and not withdraw anything out of his account. They would do his extension then.

Will that work? I’ll leave it to lopburi3 and the experts.

[lopburi3]

They provided a 60 day extension of stay to visit wife so yes that will work.

[Lite Beer]

As said that will work.

The rule is clear . The required amount must not fall below 800,000 during the 3 months.

He could always get the extension based on having a Thai Wife. He would then only need 400,000 Baht in the bank.

[jamesjdaly]

........so he gave her his ATM card saying to her only take 10,000 Baht. She took 15,000 out.......

I would NOT have liked to have been in her shoes!!!

[TaoNow]

The experience of OP is a good example of why you should keep the 800,000 baht in a fixed deposit account, if you are using this method to process a visa extension on the basis of retirement.

You can open other accounts for expenses and transfers during the year. IMO, it makes no sense to withdraw from your 800,000 baht "Immo bond" account since it is like taking a loan from yourself -- which you have to re-pay no later than 3 months before the extension renewal date.

The only situation I can imagine where you might need to withdraw funds from the 800K fund is if there is some personal disaster that needs immediate payment of a large sum. Otherwise you should transfer funds from your off-shore account to cover necessities.

Am I missing a point here?

[lopburi3]

Why should you tie up money for an extra 9 months of the year?? If you can not make more interest elsewhere perhaps. But there is no right or wrong. Different people will have different needs/ideas.

[Guest]

Hardly pedantic. Thai civil servants cannot interpret the rules as they wish, or may want to. They have to abide by them exactly or risk losing their poorly paid jobs. While I have every sympathy for the 'victim' at least he was offered a way out of it. I'd agree that keeping the 800K locked up in a fixed term account is the way to go.

[jamesjdaly]

I wasn't aware that fixed deposits were allowed for an extension (marriage or retirement). I thought a single name, savings account was the only allowed account.

Can anyone in Bangkok confirm this for a marriage extension?

[Guest]

I can't say for marriage but I have been using a fixed term deposit account for retirement for many years, both at Suan Plu and more recently at Nonthaburi.

[bdenner]

Why should you tie up money for an extra 9 months of the year?? If you can not make more interest elsewhere perhaps. But there is no right or wrong. Different people will have different needs/ideas.

This is the way he operates. His income is invested, by his son, in the UK so he has it working for himself in that way. For 9 months his day to day living expenses here comes out of the 800K. Works fine for him.

I also was under the impression that the funds could not be in a fixed term deposit but be seen to be used and proof of the top up be seen to come from foreign sources.

For me, I get my OA visa in Aust. and can leave funds there as well as stretch the visa out for 2 years. I'm near coming to the end of my 1st 2 year term and will do it again on my planned visit in Feb 2010.

[MAJORUS]

I renewed my marriage visa last month in Chiangmai with a fixed deposit account,been doing it for years no problem,the criterion is that the money must be accessible at any time.Beware using the term FUND ACCOUNT this can cause problems.See post in Chiangmai Forum today

[Thanyaburi Mac]

The experience of OP is a good example of why you should keep the 800,000 baht in a fixed deposit account, if you are using this method to process a visa extension on the basis of retirement.

You can open other accounts for expenses and transfers during the year. IMO, it makes no sense to withdraw from your 800,000 baht "Immo bond" account since it is like taking a loan from yourself -- which you have to re-pay no later than 3 months before the extension renewal date.

The only situation I can imagine where you might need to withdraw funds from the 800K fund is if there is some personal disaster that needs immediate payment of a large sum. Otherwise you should transfer funds from your off-shore account to cover necessities.

Am I missing a point here?

Say you do your annual extension on 15 January, then it's quite OK to draw down that baht 800,000 for the next perhaps six months, then start building it up again to baht 800k so it hits that mark three months before the new extension date.

Mac

[thaiphoon]

Fixed term deposit accounts are normally accepted by Immigration. Fund accounts are not accepted by immigration as are not instantly accessible.

[Gary A]

I lacked just a few days of having the entire 800,000 in for three months. I told the officials that was Okay and to sign me up for a support visa instead. That got their attention and all sorts of excuses why the support visa was VERY difficult. I carefully explained that I have had more than 400,000 in for the entire year. I got my extension and was told to be more careful next year.

[thaiphoon]

The only situation I can imagine where you might need to withdraw funds from the 800K fund is if there is some personal disaster that needs immediate payment of a large sum. Otherwise you should transfer funds from your off-shore account to cover necessities.

Quite a few folks use the 800k funds for living expenses after renewing their extension of stay, and then 'top-up' the Thai bank account from abroad at least 3 months ahead of extension renewal. This avoids keeping unnecessary funds in Thailand and otherwise paying for monthly funds transfers from home country for living expenses. But everyone has their own reasons for doing it their own particular way.

[tutsiwarrior]

Hardly pedantic. Thai civil servants cannot interpret the rules as they wish, or may want to. They have to abide by them exactly or risk losing their poorly paid jobs. While I have every sympathy for the 'victim' at least he was offered a way out of it. I'd agree that keeping the 800K locked up in a fixed term account is the way to go.

gimme a break, pal...then why is it that we have reports on this forum describing arbitrary 'interpretation' of the law by various local immigration offices resulting in extreme inconvenience for the extension applicant who only wants to adhere to the law as it is written?

in my own case I will be making an application for an extension based on marriage at my local office and I still don't know whether they require a copy of the registration of marriage or not as they cannot speak english on the telephone...if this is a requirement then it should be global, not at the whim of the local official...no one should ever have to approach their immigration office with uncertainty and trepidation...simply to present the officially required documents and to expect satisfaction...

lets call a spade a spade: thai civil servants that deal with falangs are etc & etc & etc...

[rgs2001uk]

I wasn't aware that fixed deposits were allowed for an extension (marriage or retirement). I thought a single name, savings account was the only allowed account.

Can anyone in Bangkok confirm this for a marriage extension?

For the past 4 years I have used a fixed deposit account In Bangkok with no problems.

This is for a marriage extension as I am under 50.

[phetaroi]

Hardly pedantic. Thai civil servants cannot interpret the rules as they wish, or may want to. They have to abide by them exactly or risk losing their poorly paid jobs. While I have every sympathy for the 'victim' at least he was offered a way out of it. I'd agree that keeping the 800K locked up in a fixed term account is the way to go.

gimme a break, pal...then why is it that we have reports on this forum describing arbitrary 'interpretation' of the law by various local immigration offices resulting in extreme inconvenience for the extension applicant who only wants to adhere to the law as it is written?

in my own case I will be making an application for an extension based on marriage at my local office and I still don't know whether they require a copy of the registration of marriage or not as they cannot speak english on the telephone...if this is a requirement then it should be global, not at the whim of the local official...no one should ever have to approach their immigration office with uncertainty and trepidation...simply to present the officially required documents and to expect satisfaction...

lets call a spade a spade: thai civil servants that deal with falangs are etc & etc & etc...

Complainers on TV.com want to have it both ways. If Thailand doesn't follow strict laws, they complain. If they do follow the law, they complain.

Be careful what you wish for.

[bdenner]

I wasn't aware that fixed deposits were allowed for an extension (marriage or retirement). I thought a single name, savings account was the only allowed account.

Can anyone in Bangkok confirm this for a marriage extension?

For the past 4 years I have used a fixed deposit account In Bangkok with no problems.

This is for a marriage extension as I am under 50.

That's unusual as the Thais did not accept a 400K bank account for a period of 12 odd months a year ago. Joint monthly income was the go!!!

Apart from the effin goal posts moving and more hoops being thrown at we Farang just bringing Foreign currency into this country with out the welcome mat.

[bdenner]

Complainers on TV.com want to have it both ways. If Thailand doesn't follow strict laws, they complain. If they do follow the law, they complain.

Be careful what you wish for.

Here's one that lives in a perfect Thai world and never screwed by the system. Good luck to you.

[opalhort]

Complainers on TV.com want to have it both ways. If Thailand doesn't follow strict laws, they complain. If they do follow the law, they complain.

Be careful what you wish for.

Very good point.

To Jamesjdaly: I've been using a fixed deposit acct for extension based on marriage for 10 years now in BKK and never had a problem.

opalhort

[rgs2001uk]

I wasn't aware that fixed deposits were allowed for an extension (marriage or retirement). I thought a single name, savings account was the only allowed account.

Can anyone in Bangkok confirm this for a marriage extension?

For the past 4 years I have used a fixed deposit account In Bangkok with no problems.

This is for a marriage extension as I am under 50.

That's unusual as the Thais did not accept a 400K bank account for a period of 12 odd months a year ago. Joint monthly income was the go!!!

Apart from the effin goal posts moving and more hoops being thrown at we Farang just bringing Foreign currency into this country with out the welcome mat.

You are of course correct, I remember something along the lines of must be joint income, which I believe has been replaced with husband only, kinda hard to keep track.

I was grandfathered in under the old rules, which I believe were changed in about October 2006.

Anyway will find out next month when I go for another extension.

[chiang mai]

The only situation I can imagine where you might need to withdraw funds from the 800K fund is if there is some personal disaster that needs immediate payment of a large sum. Otherwise you should transfer funds from your off-shore account to cover necessities.

Quite a few folks use the 800k funds for living expenses after renewing their extension of stay, and then 'top-up' the Thai bank account from abroad at least 3 months ahead of extension renewal. This avoids keeping unnecessary funds in Thailand and otherwise paying for monthly funds transfers from home country for living expenses. But everyone has their own reasons for doing it their own particular way.

Agreed, personally I would rather get 3% on Sterling for nine months than 0.75% on Thai Baht for the same period, it only makes sense.

[basjke]

I was today at pattaya immigration for my 90 days reporting.As I have to renew my extension in march next year I showed them a fund account and asked if this could be used.They told me that it could not but it would be sufficient if I transferred the money to a deposit account just a few days ahead of applying for the new extension.Reading the replies in this topic I better forget about that advise and top-up my deposit count as soon as possible.

Any experience with Pattaya immigration if they would accept as they advised.

p.s.: advice was given to me by one of those farang volunteers at the entrance who I saw asked one of the officers behind the desk.

[TaoNow]

OK, OK. Lopburi3 and Thaiphoon have spoken, and I retract my statement that you should put the 800K in a local fixed deposit account.

Of course you can do whatever you want with your 800K baht during the 9 months after the extension.

But the spirit of the law is that you have that 800K baht readily available in case an immediate, unexpected and large payment in country is required. For example, the Phuket ex-pat whose parked pick-up was hit by a motorcyclist at 3 a.m. and is being sued by the family for 500K baht. Immo doesn't want a retiree in that situation to do a runner to avoid a legally-binding payment -- as must have happened in the past.

As other posters have pointed out on this thread, that is also why Immo doesn't allow presentation of long-term treasury bonds or other less liquid holdings as proof of the 800K baht in your possession.

When "chiang mai" transfers his 800K baht out of the country to invest in Sterling at 3% he needs to make sure he has a secondary source of funds that can be quickly transferred to Thailand in the case of catastrophe. You can also take your 800K and run to Yawarat to buy gold bullion and then sell it back 9 months later. Or invest in the SET for 9 months. But if your investments during the year take you below 800K -- readily in hand, in country -- then this goes against the intent of the law, though it may meet the letter of it.

And I guess that was my (lame) point.

[phutoie2]

But the spirit of the law is that you have that 800K baht readily available in case an immediate, unexpected and large payment in country is required. For example, the Phuket ex-pat whose parked pick-up was hit by a motorcyclist at 3 a.m. and is being sued by the family for 500K baht. Immo doesn't want a retiree in that situation to do a runner to avoid a legally-binding payment -- as must have happened in the past.

I was not aware of that!, what if you do not have the 800k in the bank?.

Next May I am going back to the combination of income rule, ie 400k in the savings account and the letter from your consulate confirming an income earnt abroad. In my case a small military pension but added together with the savings account easily gives me the 65k Baht a month income to meet the retirement extension rules.

I did this on 2007, though the next 2 years extensions I did have the 800k, but this year I have had cause to dip into this money.

[lopburi3]

The spirit of the law is to show you have the funds to support your stay for 12 months. Just as the requirement for 10-40,000 baht for visa entry is. It has nothing to to with an large emergency payment. That is a good reason to have but it is not the reason you are asked to show the funds by Immigration.

[Mario2008]

I was not aware of that!, what if you do not have the 800k in the bank?.

Next May I am going back to the combination of income rule, ie 400k in the savings account and the letter from your consulate confirming an income earnt abroad. In my case a small military pension but added together with the savings account easily gives me the 65k Baht a month income to meet the retirement extension rules.

I did this on 2007, though the next 2 years extensions I did have the 800k, but this year I have had cause to dip into this money.

Don't worry. the rule was and is:

800,000 in the bank

OR

65,000 a month

OR

a combination of money in the bank and yearly income, totaling 800,000.

As long as you make one of these requirements you will be fine. if going for the last option, the combnation, there is even no need to have the money in the bank seasoned for 3 months.

[Kitsch22]

Agreed, personally I would rather get 3% on Sterling for nine months than 0.75% on Thai Baht for the same period, it only makes sense.

Save for the wholly improbable contingency that Sterling might take a bit of a knock, of course.

[jackspratt]

But the spirit of the law is that you have that 800K baht readily available in case an immediate, unexpected and large payment in country is required. For example, the Phuket ex-pat whose parked pick-up was hit by a motorcyclist at 3 a.m. and is being sued by the family for 500K baht. Immo doesn't want a retiree in that situation to do a runner to avoid a legally-binding payment -- as must have happened in the past.

This supposition doesn't make any sense to me.

A couple of examples:

1. If you are on a non O-A, for the first 2 years there is no requirement to have any money in Thailand.

2. If you are on an extension based on monthly income (TBH65k) there is similarly no requirement to have money in Thailand, other than if Immigration ask to demonstrate that you are bringing in sufficient funds to support yourself.