Once You Start To See Thai Society For What It Is

[Ruperts]

I've been visiting Thailand on and off for a couple of years now. Seems to me they're taking much of the most horrible and embarrassing aspects of western culture and taking it to a whole new level. Lots of greed, lots of status desire. Lots of materialism. Everything I hate about western society, they are taking to with incredible enthusiasm. Are they so stupid to be duped by marketeers or are they just not very free thinking people? They also seem very racist.

If I stay here will my dislike of the people continue to grow or is this the natural ebb and flow of life in the LOS?

I'm thinking it's time to get out of here before it's too late.

[Jingthing]

Seek out the deviant Thais. Thais are human beings, you will find much variety under the superficial surface.

[bkkjames]

Maybe Venezuela would be more to the OP's liking. Very anti-western there from what hear.

[mizzi39]

OP quote:

I'm thinking it's time to get out of here before it's too late.

Please shut the door on your way out!

We live in a capitalistic world. Where have you been? What makes you think Thailand would be any different than anywhere else? Some people are racist, but not all. Its a mono culture so what do you expect? This is no different than anywhere else on earth. Most people that are racist live in their little microcosm even if you live in a multicultural society. Coming here a few times and living here are like apples and onions, so tourist and expat perspectives usually differ.

[madjbs]

Oh dear, yet another bitter old fool who thinks they are an expert on Thai society after a couple of holidays.

[Rumfoord]

[Ruperts]

Oh dear, yet another bitter old fool who thinks they are an expert on Thai society after a couple of holidays.

You're absolutely correct, except for the part about me being bitter, old, a fool and claiming to be an expert on Thai society after a couple of holidays. I'm not bitter at all, I'm certainly not old, I don't consider myself a fool and nowhere did I claim to be an expert.

This is just an observation. I'm interested to know if anyone disagrees with me.

[sbk]

Three stages to life in Thailand

1.Thailand is paradise, the people are wonderful everythign is perfect.

Disillusion sets in and then you hit stage 2. Thailand is awful, Thai people are horrible, its a hel_l on earth

and finally stage 3, which some people never reach: Thailand is just a place, like any other, with good and bad people like everywhere else.

[Birdman]

If you have negative feelings toward Thai ways as a tourist already, it certainly will grow. For sure, very very sure. If you can't except how things are done here and/or enjoy at least a mayor part of that, you will be a sad, bitter person, if you move here. They will call you that "Faraang" and you have to fight many pot wars*.

*pot war - a term, meaning daily nasty troubles with people around you

[Ruperts]

Three stages to life in Thailand

1.Thailand is paradise, the people are wonderful everythign is perfect.

Disillusion sets in and then you hit stage 2. Thailand is awful, Thai people are horrible, its a hel_l on earth

and finally stage 3, which some people never reach: Thailand is just a place, like any other, with good and bad people like everywhere else.

That's quite interesting. I am in stage two today but can certainly see stage three becoming a reality.

[bkkjames]

Three stages to life in Thailand

1.Thailand is paradise, the people are wonderful everythign is perfect.

Disillusion sets in and then you hit stage 2. Thailand is awful, Thai people are horrible, its a hel_l on earth

and finally stage 3, which some people never reach: Thailand is just a place, like any other, with good and bad people like everywhere else.

That's quite interesting. I am in stage two today but can certainly see stage three becoming a reality.

SBK's path to enlightenment.

Don't give up mate, you are almost there.

[ferd54]

Extreme awareness of status, actually obsession with it, is very Asian. Face and image are all important.

A nice fantasy is that these underdeveloped countries are filled with humble, happy peasants who are untainted by the clamor for more and more material possessions. Rather, poor people understandably want more and economic slaves don't want to abolish slavery -- they want their own slave. Its a brutal climb up the ladder and the niceties of ethics and compassion do not come in to play. You'll be hard-pressed to find a more venal group of folks.

Edited December 11, 2009 by ferd54

[Samuian]

Oh dear, yet another bitter old fool who thinks they are an expert on Thai society after a couple of holidays.

You're absolutely correct, except for the part about me being bitter, old, a fool and claiming to be an expert on Thai society after a couple of holidays. I'm not bitter at all, I'm certainly not old, I don't consider myself a fool and nowhere did I claim to be an expert.

This is just an observation. I'm interested to know if anyone disagrees with me.

My dear distressed son,

I live and work here very happily for the last 20 years,

have ssenn the usual, unavoidable up's and down's, been through

a divorce, through this and that and still of today

I can't think of any country which comes

even a little close to what Thai people and concerning Quality

of life this country have to offer!

( I have been to a many, many places in Europe, Northern Africa as well as in Asia!)

But it doesn't come on a plate, presented by a dream girl,

it has to be explored, understood and needs feedback to keep

developing as something one may adore or shun - it's up to you!

When leaving, please leave the lights on, you're not alone!

Edited December 11, 2009 by Samuian

[robint]

IMHO

You have discerned the essence of being a farang in LOS

you will always be a despised farang be it 1 year or 20+ years residence and the locals will never stop looking to take advantage of you, poison your life or worse.

After several disastrous encounters you will find that the best course is to keep as far removed from contact with locals as practicable. Most of the long timers I know have adopted that stance. But its an empty kind of existance which old fellas become used to but not suited to young blades.

FWIW

Get out now young man and dont waste your time

[Jingthing]

Thailand is not for everybody. I think it is not for most people. Paradise, it's not ...

[Ijustwannateach]

I said it on another thread some time ago but it's worth repeating here: what most people are willing to say about most Thais is more reflective of those speaking than it is of the Thais.

As a corollary- there are all kinds of people out there in Thailand (there would have to be, right?). If it seems you are only meeting one kind of person, what is the common denominator, then?

[citizen33]

I quite like SBK's three stages idea, but some of the obstacles that are stopping my progression to stage 3 are:

- The fact that all my middle-class friends say that it is absolutely essential to use private tutors, and preferably personal influence, to enable your child to progress through the educational system - don't want to put my son through a cramming regime.

- The undeniable fact that family and position count for more than merit in many areas of competitive endeavour - again something likely to disadvantage a Westerner's children.

- Still too high a level of corruption affecting some public servants.

- Worries about the limits of freedom of speech which may mean that I can do my job better in the West than in Thailand.

For me these are structural and cultural issues rather than reflecting any intrinsic faults of the Thai people.

[DP25]

They also seem very racist.

They're not the only ones

[sbk]

IMHO

You have discerned the essence of being a farang in LOS

you will always be a despised farang be it 1 year or 20+ years residence and the locals will never stop looking to take advantage of you, poison your life or worse.

After several disastrous encounters you will find that the best course is to keep as far removed from contact with locals as practicable. Most of the long timers I know have adopted that stance. But its an empty kind of existance which old fellas become used to but not suited to young blades.

FWIW

Get out now young man and dont waste your time

I've lived in Thailand 20 years and have always had contact with "locals". Frankly, if you don't want to interact with Thai people why bother living in Thailand?

[XCom]

if you don't want to interact with Thai people why bother living in Thailand?

Hear, hear...

Edited December 11, 2009 by XCom

[eek]

Three stages to life in Thailand

1.Thailand is paradise, the people are wonderful everythign is perfect.

Disillusion sets in and then you hit stage 2. Thailand is awful, Thai people are horrible, its a hel_l on earth

and finally stage 3, which some people never reach: Thailand is just a place, like any other, with good and bad people like everywhere else.

But i guess that depends also on what expectations you came with. I imagine those with realistic impressions in the first place dont need to go through those kinds of stages. However, i would imagine most of us have some kind of culture shock adjustment to get through.

I have a few friends who i could say are in stage one. Love them to bits but sometimes I feel a bit like i want to roll my eyeballs (they are regular visitors rather than living here). There is only so much gushing about ANY place that i can take. I have several that i believe are stuck in stage two..who have lived in Thailand MUCH longer than i have..and most often only have negative things to offer about "those" Thai people..etc. Its depressing and boring to listen to (id much rather be around the stage one folks). Also, if you dont relate to the stage two people, i find they think you must be in stage one, otherwise you would be complaining about everything too. I get "sage" advice about how in a few years time i will not think of the place as some wonderful paradise anymore. But the thing is..ive never viewed it that way in the first place.

[kikoman]

How you see the Thais, thats how they see you, If you come to this country thinking that you deserve respect- without giving respect, you will be disillusioned;

Thailand is not for every body, you must remember this is their country and they will live their life for their pleasure not yours!

Thais are discriminatory, I think not ! if you want to live in a racist society, go to the U.S.!

Whatever you do Thailand is not for you, do your self a favor and go somewhere where the way of life will be more to your liking!

Thailand to me is a Paradise, A wonderful life, country and people, for those who accept it as it is, those who are dissatisfied should seriously consider going to another Paradise.

Good Luck in your search!

Cheers:

Edited December 11, 2009 by kikoman

[Jingthing]

Do you consider ordering from Thai waiters at Thai restaurants "intereacting" with Thai people?

I disagree that interacting with Thai people is the only reason to live in Thailand. There are many reasons. It is up to the individual to discover what keeps him here, or not. If someone makes other choices about who they interact with, and they are OK with it, I don't feel any value judgment should be made about it.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[pjclark1]

I am happy to interact with Thai ladies.

I am always polite to Thai ladyboys.

I rarely have any interaction with Thai men, we simply have nothing the other wants.

Relationships out here are business orientated, if you have no business, you appear to have no relationship.

I quite enjoy it out here, it is certainly a paradise for me compared to the western world.

[whichschool]

Op ive been coming here longer then most so this give my post more substance then most as this is how it works amongst expats, and you're right on what you said in your first post, ive never come across a more money/ status/ beauty obsessed race in all my puff!

[GuestHouse]

The OP is in danger of being caught telling it as he sees it.

Now this is not a problem if he sees and tells it that all Thai people are wonderful/friendly/honest (add extremely long list of possitive attributes).

If however he makes the mistake of giving a negative view he'll be accused of generalizing and shortly afterwards told to go home.

[eek]

^ whichschool..you have been "coming here", so you dont actually live here...

Even those who split time 50/50 between countries, will probably have a much different experience that people actually living here full time.

Not only that..but people with certain outlooks have different impressions/experiences, but those of different ages and different reasons for being here...those who have negative experiences..those who have been stung..those who are happy..those who live in cities..those who live in small towns.....the list could go on and on.

Yes, i agree that money/status/beauty is valued very much here..but that is not just a Thai concern. More obsessed than other countries? hmm.....i wouldnt go along with that either really.

Edited December 11, 2009 by eek

[MiG16]

- The fact that all my middle-class friends say that it is absolutely essential to use private tutors, and preferably personal influence, to enable your child to progress through the educational system - don't want to put my son through a cramming regime.

the only time Ive had to use tutor was when I needed to give my GCSE board exam. I wasnt attending school, so needed the private tutoring, rather than sit with a maths book by myself - which would have been pretty useless and impossible.

apart from that - NEVER NEVER used a tutor, not attended any of those evening classes that a lot of Bkk parents put their kids in. I dont know....maybe thats why Im not as smart?

- The undeniable fact that family and position count for more than merit in many areas of competitive endeavour - again something likely to disadvantage a Westerner's children.

I dont believe that. neither my family nor I have any 'connection', but I think I have come a long way for a small town country girl.

- Still too high a level of corruption affecting some public servants.

- Worries about the limits of freedom of speech which may mean that I can do my job better in the West than in Thailand.

corruption - name a country where this doesnt exist?

true and strictly enforced in some aspects, but generally, media freedom isnt all that bad in Thailand.

For me these are structural and cultural issues rather than reflecting any intrinsic faults of the Thai people.

I wouldnt put them down as cultural, but yes certainly long ingrained practices, that will take time to change. initially there will be few exceptions that break from the norm, but overtime those wanting to see a change starts to grow, and new practices are adopted, and at some point these 'new' practices will be looked upon as outdated and obsolete, and the cycle repeats. to me thats just part of ordinary human process of change, progress and evolution..... happens every where, at different pace, in different directions

[Sakeopete]

To the OP,

TV is not the best forum to express negative opinions of Thai society. You will be quickly attacked by the "rose colored glasses" and "leave if you don't like it" brigade or the TV police. Suggest you try other Thai forums instead. Stick to information requests and posts with nice comments about Thailand on this forum.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Sakeopete

[Brunus]

IMHO

You have discerned the essence of being a farang in LOS

you will always be a despised farang be it 1 year or 20+ years residence and the locals will never stop looking to take advantage of you, poison your life or worse.

After several disastrous encounters you will find that the best course is to keep as far removed from contact with locals as practicable. Most of the long timers I know have adopted that stance. But its an empty kind of existance which old fellas become used to but not suited to young blades.

FWIW

Get out now young man and dont waste your time

I agree. I have been living for 5 years in Thailand. Not all year long but most of it. I am 36 years old and I don't want to have contacts with Thais. I am married with a Thai lady who dislikes Thais. She feels the same way as you and I do. We live in our own "bubble", protected from most of the other Thais and we have almost only farang friends. And we are happy this way. I am sure there are people in this country with decent moral values (for my standards), but they are not the majority. Therefore I spend my money here, enjoy the beach with my farang friends and I don't want to be close to any other Thais except my wife.

I think you shall enjoy the good things in this country and avoid the bad ones. That's why I have only farang friends. And that's why I am happy here.

Relationships out here are business orientated, if you have no business, you appear to have no relationship.

I quite enjoy it out here, it is certainly a paradise for me compared to the western world.

I agree