Cambodia's King Pardons Thai Engineer Convicted Of Spying

[Credo]

The poor guy probably had very little idea of what he was doing at the time. It's good he's due to be released.

Politics aside, all Mr. T would have had to do was call Hun Sen and tell him that as his economic advisor, keeping this guy in jail and further fueling tensions is bad for business.

[debcmai]

Update:

Thai engineer pardoned

PHNOM PENH: -- Cambodia's King Norodom Sihamoni has pardoned a Thai man who was convicted earlier this week of spying.

Minister of Information Khieu Kanharith, said Sivarak Chothipong would be released Monday.

Sivarak was arrested in mid-November after the authorities accused him of passing on flight details of Thailand's fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra to a diplomat at the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh.

"This is a humanitarian gesture," Khieu Kanharith told the German Press Agency dpa. "For us this gesture is not to please Thailand, but for humanitarian issues, and we know that the man executed the order (given) by Bangkok."

-- Deutsche Presse-Agentur 2009-12-11

Some here seem to forget that the govt. all but admitted that the young man HAD been asked to pass on info to them...I remember such things being quoted in the papers just after the incident occured. Some here have tried to defend and say that it is not illegal to know Thaksin flight schedule...but it was NOT a schedule, but a flight PLAN they were after...as in, the direction going. Definately suspect and this boy go caught in the middle. Shame. He probably really liked his job...now his whole life turned upside down by a bunch of paranoid bureaucrats. Oh, and by the way...I am betting that his mother in no way finds her son's pardon farcical. Really.

[Rumfoord]

The engineer's parents are friends of Thaksin. When the Cambodians made the arrest they presumably weren't aware of this. Without T's consent, there would most likely have been no pardon.

his parents are friends of Thaksin? where did you get that info from? ASTV, Nation, a radio channel, or some insider information by some longfriendfellow with the best connections and insights.

and your argument is that Thaksin has the Cambodian police, the Cambodian judicial system, the Cambodian government and the Cambodian King in his pocket, controls them and they all will do what he says? and furthermore you claim that the pardon came only because the parents of the poor spy guy are best buddies of Thaksin and without such a relationship Thaksin would make sure that he gets the full punishment?

[BusyBee123]

nothing like a newspaper armed we know everything brigade, well if it keeps the grey matter ticking carry on enjoy

[JFitzgerald]

The actors in this stage play have flubbed their lines for Act III, Scene 2

They've jumped ahead and are reading the lines from Act IV, Scene 1

The pardon has been granted before it was even requested.

Duh, thats because its Cambodia, not Thailand.

Do they have different rules in Cambodia in that a pardon is granted before it's requested?

They practice smarter politics, at least by this example.

Is it "smart" to put the cart before the horse?

Is it "smart" to have a charade look so obvious?

Oh..... oh am I wrong and youre an expert on Cambodian politics tooooooo??

I'm not an expert at all, but I can follow a simple time line. The victim's very own mother hadn't even requested a pardon before it was granted. Then we learn that Hun Sen did, however. That makes me wonder just how many other cases has he ever intervened in similarly (requesting a pardon before the family has). Has he ever done that before?

By the way, I'm curious if there is any particular reason that you choose to use larger than normal sized font on all of your posts?

Is that supposed to signify a greater validity to your replies or something?

[webfact]

A COLD PARDON

By SUPALAK GANJANAKHUNDEE

THE NATION

Published on December 12, 2009

Sivarak freed but Cambodia keeps door shut on diplomatic ties

King Norodom Sihamoni's royal pardon freeing Thai national Sivarak Chutipong from jail was based purely on humanitarian grounds and any avenues towards normalising relations with Thailand remain shut, the Cambodian government said yesterday.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Thailand praised the king's decision, but Sivarak's case was not the root cause of the ongoing diplomatic row between the countries, he said.

The pardon came just three days after a Cambodian court sentenced Sivarak to seven years in jail for spying by passing on details of fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's flight schedule.

His mother Simarak na Nakhon Phanom's request for a royal pardon had only reached the Cambodian Royal Palace on Thursday.

"The king signed the royal pardon this morning, following the request by his mother and the Pheu Thai Party," Cambodian Information Minister Khieu Kanharith said by phone from Phnom Penh.

Sivarak was arrested on November 12 and will be released from Prey Sor prison on Monday. Prime Minister Hun Sen will hand him over to his mother, Khieu Kanharith said.

"Prime Minister Hun Sen said if he [sivarak] wants to stay and work in Cambodia, he is welcome to do so," he said, adding the Cambodian aviation authority would make a decision on returning the operation of Cambodia Air Traffic Services - Sivarak's employer - to its normal management soon.

The case is part of a diplomatic row between the two countries, which have downgraded relations since Hun Sen appointed Thaksin as his adviser at the end of October. Thailand recalled its ambassador from Phnom Penh and Cambodia reacted in kind.

The Thai engineer told the court that he had checked Thaksin's flight information on November 10 when the ex-PM arrived in Phnom Penh, and passed it to Thai diplomat Kamrob Palawatwichai, who was later expelled from Cambodia.

However, the royal pardon should not be taken as a gesture to please Thailand with a view to normalising relations, Khieu Kanharith said, adding that it might not be appreciated by the Thai government as it was partly in response to a request made by the opposition Pheu Thai Party.

"Normal relations will resume only when Thailand sends its ambassador back to Phnom Penh," he said. "As Thailand recalled its ambassador first, why doesn't it return its envoy first?"

Asked whether Thailand had demanded that Cambodia first remove Thaksin from the position of adviser to Hun Sen, the minister said Thaksin's new role had no connection with the countries' relations.

Cambodia will not change its position and trade Thaksin for relations with Thailand, he added.

Abhisit said the government would remain firm on its position to have Thaksin returned to Thailand.

"What we have done was necessary to show our disapproval over Cambodia's decision [to make Thaksin an economic adviser]," he told reporters, adding that if Thaksin were to return to Cambodia, the government would again request his extradition.

A senior Asean diplomat said the two countries were still far from seeking a compromise, as neither of them could afford to lose face.

Experience from other diplomatic disputes in the region suggested countries could sometimes reach a compromise on minor issues such as an agreement to send their envoys back while at the same time bypassing the major obstacle, he said.

-- The Nation 2009/12/12

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[backsoon]

Either I have more questions than a fool, or -

Is passing this kind of info classified as 'spying'? I've heard of industrial, economy, defence espionage,... but flight timetable? Wasn't it posted on the board somewhere?

If the flight schedule was kept secret for security reasons, was the carrying plane in any

real danger? Over Thai airspace? In international airspace? Thailand is not Nth Korea...?

If it was an act of espionage, what about the receiving end? The Thai diplomat?

Was the Thai engineer coersed to give out this info? If so, - what...?

Do we consider Thaksin as a possible asassination target? Now? Later? Ever? For what?

I get the feeling that the whole thing is not worth all the time spent on it here.

[debcmai]

Either I have more questions than a fool, or -

Is passing this kind of info classified as 'spying'? I've heard of industrial, economy, defence espionage,... but flight timetable? Wasn't it posted on the board somewhere?

If the flight schedule was kept secret for security reasons, was the carrying plane in any

real danger? Over Thai airspace? In international airspace? Thailand is not Nth Korea...?

If it was an act of espionage, what about the receiving end? The Thai diplomat?

Was the Thai engineer coersed to give out this info? If so, - what...?

Do we consider Thaksin as a possible asassination target? Now? Later? Ever? For what?

I get the feeling that the whole thing is not worth all the time spent on it here.

It was not a flight timetable. OF COURSE it was not...it was a flight plan, and yes, THAT is illegal. Have you ever tried to find out if a specific individual is on a specific flight? No can do. Absolutely not and that has been in place for decades...even pre 9/11. Might have been after Lockerbie, not sure. But FOR SURE that boy was asked by this present Thai government to do something highly illegal...and if you read the articles that came out when it first happened you will see it very clearly...they were scrambling like mad and could not make a clear, unequivical denial of their involvement in this matter. They were caught, they were guilty, pure and simple. Not red. Not yellow. Just guilty. They thought so little of the Cambodian gvt. that they thought they could get away with it. They did it. And a young man, raised in this society where you are not allowed to say 'no' to your 'betters' or those higher than you...got caught in the middle. I, for one, am very, very happy that the Cambodian king has been so kind.

All of your conspiracy theorists seem to forget...this government actually did something wrong against its neighbor...and got caught. Anyone else seeing this>?

[Ricardo]

How many other TV members predicted this would be the outcome? Guess it wasn't Mr. T to the rescue like sooooo many predicted.

Perhaps there is currently a shortage in Dubai (or Russia ?) , of suits of knightly armor, or of white chargers upon which to ride ?

[NanLaew]

- Cambodia surely is disrupting Thailands internal affairs. If you don't agree with that, well...then I presume you put less value on Thaksin than most red do.

Thailand's sycophantic royalist/loyalist 'government' and mainstream media is leading Thai people (and some foreigners apparently) to think that Cambodia is disrupting Thailands internal affairs.

Sorry, the Thai's are doing it to THEMSELVES.

I liked that cartoon a few years back that had Thaksin saying "Boo!" from Singapore and the military junta were pictured as crapping themselves behind their line of tanks and guns.

Edited December 12, 2009 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

So do I understand this correctly: If an American citizen sits in a Starbucks in Bangkok and insults Barak Obama, that American could be imprisoned up to fourteen years in the Bangkok Hilton? Who writes these laws?!!

Yes. So better button yer lip and drink your caramel machiato eh?

[NanLaew]

The engineer's parents are friends of Thaksin. When the Cambodians made the arrest they presumably weren't aware of this. Without T's consent, there would most likely have been no pardon.

They are? Really?

In that case, will the reds or the yellows give him the hero's welcome at the airport?

[Thai at Heart]

- Cambodia surely is disrupting Thailands internal affairs. If you don't agree with that, well...then I presume you put less value on Thaksin than most red do.

Thailand's sycophantic royalist/loyalist 'government' and mainstream media is leading Thai people (and some foreigners apparently) to think that Cambodia is disrupting Thailands internal affairs.

Sorry, the Thai's are doing it to THEMSELVES.

I liked that cartoon a few years back that had Thaksin saying "Boo!" from Singapore and the military junta were pictured as crapping themselves behind their line of tanks and guns.

I would have to agree with you there. After all, it was Thailand's wonderful system that let him out on bail in the first place. he has become the bogeyman to blame all current problems upon. If it snowed on Xmas day here, it would probably be Thaksin's fault.

You do wonder though, if they stopped talking, thinking, dreaming, discussing, wondering about Thaksin, what would the Dems, Sondhi and all the others have to do all day?

Of course, the Dems would have to get serious about running the country, and Sondhi would be busy having a go at them. So better for all concerned if Thaksin stays well and truly in the public eye.

[rixalex]

It was not a flight timetable. OF COURSE it was not...it was a flight plan, and yes, THAT is illegal.

All of your conspiracy theorists seem to forget...this government actually did something wrong against its neighbor...and got caught. Anyone else seeing this>?

They might see it but perhaps in the general scheme of things, they think it's a fairly trivial matter.

Cambodia not only signals its complete discontempt and lack of respect by employing a highly divisive, on-the-run Thai and giving that square face a nearby platform and safe haven from which to attack and undermine Thailand, but also voices it in a number of speeches that Hun Sen made, that made it clear that he cares not one jot about Thailand or Thai people, bar one individual, whom he happens to share business interests with.

Hun Sen wants to play dirty then fine... but please... if you kick someone in the <deleted> don't expect a polite letter of complaint in return, and don't act all shocked and indignant if they don't play entirely by the letter of the law.

[Sheryl]

All of your conspiracy theorists seem to forget...this government actually did something wrong against its neighbor...and got caught. Anyone else seeing this>?

Thank you for that.

While I can appreciate that readers of a Thailand-based forum would tend to take a Thai-centric view of things, it is astounding to me that save for the above no-one seems to even consider the possibility that the Cambodian government had (and has) issues of its own with the present Thai government in general, its Foreign Ministry in particular and with the staff of its embassy in PP, and that its (the Camb gov) actions might be motivated thereby.

No-one dislikes Hun Sen more than I do. However, while there are plenty of adjectives I'd use to describe him (most of them unprintable), stupid is not among them. Neither is pawn.

He's a thoroughly bad character, but nobody's stooge.

It was, as poster above pointed out, not a timetable that was stolen, it was an actual flight plan, as in longitude/latitude, path the plan would take. Possibly someone in the Thai government wanted to ascertain if the route went through Thai airspace. In an case. most definitely proprietory information and not legal to hand over to outside entitites let alone foreign governments.

More to the point, the audacity of doing this is typical of a long-standing pattern of behavior with which the Camb govt has gotten increasingly fed up.

For the poster who asked about the Thai diplomat on the reciving end, he was expelled from the country and the Camb govt made very clear in its press release that the only reason he had not been arrested was becaue he had diplomatic immunity. They particulalry stressed that they were showing proper respect for diplomatic protocal as that is exactly what they feel the Thai embassy and govt, in their dealings with their Cambodian counterparts, consistently fail to do.

[rixalex]

he has become the bogeyman to blame all current problems upon.

Directly and indirectly he is to blame for a lot (though not all) of the current problems.

If there was a transit van parked outside your property with a known fugitive at the wheel, who sat there day-in, day out, planning with henchmen of a way to attack you and your family in your home at any oppurtunity that may arise, you might be forgiven for allowing this problem to occupy your mind a lot, especially if your neighbour was letting them in for refreshments.

[webfact]

Thaksin to join Chavalit, Pheu Thai MPs to see Thai engineer released

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Pheu Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh will fly to Phnom Penh to see the Thai engineer released by the Cambodian government.

Maj Gen Kattiya Sawasidpon said Saturday that Thaksin, Chavalit and other Pheu Thai MPs would witness the ceremony of the release of Sivarak Chutipong.

Sivarak was convicted in the spy charge and received a royal pardon by the Cambodian King on Friday.

-- The Nation 2009/12/12

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[hammered]

Predictable. Thaksin is never one to miss a PR opportunity. The coreography around this event has been quite good.

Interesting they use the word ceremony. I wasnt aware there were ceremonies surrounding the release of spies. Those events are usually quite somber ones although this case has been well manipulated for the interests of Thaksin and Hun Sen and for tjhe maximum embarrassment of the Thai government.

[Siripon]

- Cambodia surely is disrupting Thailands internal affairs. If you don't agree with that, well...then I presume you put less value on Thaksin than most red do.

Thailand's sycophantic royalist/loyalist 'government' and mainstream media is leading Thai people (and some foreigners apparently) to think that Cambodia is disrupting Thailands internal affairs.

Sorry, the Thai's are doing it to THEMSELVES.

I liked that cartoon a few years back that had Thaksin saying "Boo!" from Singapore and the military junta were pictured as crapping themselves behind their line of tanks and guns.

I would have to agree with you there. After all, it was Thailand's wonderful system that let him out on bail in the first place. he has become the bogeyman to blame all current problems upon. If it snowed on Xmas day here, it would probably be Thaksin's fault.

You do wonder though, if they stopped talking, thinking, dreaming, discussing, wondering about Thaksin, what would the Dems, Sondhi and all the others have to do all day?

Of course, the Dems would have to get serious about running the country, and Sondhi would be busy having a go at them. So better for all concerned if Thaksin stays well and truly in the public eye.

The Dems have done quite a lot over the year as you will see in their annual report in 10 days,

In the meantime on Thursday the reds announced they would hound Apisit at every public appearance he made until the government dissolved Parliament. They're so scared of losing their master's money in the upcoming verdict.

[Siripon]

So those members of Thai Visa who feel there were grounds to the spying charge must surely feel outraged the spy is being released so soon after his conviction.

I haven't noticed any posts so far expressing outrage.

And now Thaksin is going to personally greet his 'betrayer'! What generosity of spirit! What a magnificent gesture of social compassion from the male equivalent of Aung San, ( at least according to Som Dej ( usually a royal title) Hun Sen).

I wonder if the Thaksin apologists might just admit the whole thing was a set-up from the word go?

[baht&sold]

So those members of Thai Visa who feel there were grounds to the spying charge must surely feel outraged the spy is being released so soon after his conviction.

I haven't noticed any posts so far expressing outrage.

And now Thaksin is going to personally greet his 'betrayer'! What generosity of spirit! What a magnificent gesture of social compassion from the male equivalent of Aung San, ( at least according to Som Dej ( usually a royal title) Hun Sen).

I wonder if the Thaksin apologists might just admit the whole thing was a set-up from the word go?

Don't hold your breath. However, if they did, they'd turn bright red in the face first...

Sivarak was convicted in the spy charge and received a royal pardon by the Cambodian King on Friday.

The pardon came yesterday, so to add to the above comment, why aren't there demands he's set free immediately?

Why the *need* to hold him for Mr Thaksin and General Chavalit's arrival and the 'ceremony'?

[Credo]

All of your conspiracy theorists seem to forget...this government actually did something wrong against its neighbor...and got caught. Anyone else seeing this>?

Thank you for that.

While I can appreciate that readers of a Thailand-based forum would tend to take a Thai-centric view of things, it is astounding to me that save for the above no-one seems to even consider the possibility that the Cambodian government had (and has) issues of its own with the present Thai government in general, its Foreign Ministry in particular and with the staff of its embassy in PP, and that its (the Camb gov) actions might be motivated thereby.

No-one dislikes Hun Sen more than I do. However, while there are plenty of adjectives I'd use to describe him (most of them unprintable), stupid is not among them. Neither is pawn.

He's a thoroughly bad character, but nobody's stooge.

It was, as poster above pointed out, not a timetable that was stolen, it was an actual flight plan, as in longitude/latitude, path the plan would take. Possibly someone in the Thai government wanted to ascertain if the route went through Thai airspace. In an case. most definitely proprietory information and not legal to hand over to outside entitites let alone foreign governments.

More to the point, the audacity of doing this is typical of a long-standing pattern of behavior with which the Camb govt has gotten increasingly fed up.

For the poster who asked about the Thai diplomat on the reciving end, he was expelled from the country and the Camb govt made very clear in its press release that the only reason he had not been arrested was becaue he had diplomatic immunity. They particulalry stressed that they were showing proper respect for diplomatic protocal as that is exactly what they feel the Thai embassy and govt, in their dealings with their Cambodian counterparts, consistently fail to do.

Thanks for that very informative post. I think that puts it into the proper perspective.

I don't doubt that the conviction for spying was wrong in the legal sense, but I do think someone found themselves in a lot of hot water they didn't expect for answering a question. Releasing him on humanitarian grounds is the right and proper thing to do. His mistake was probably not intentional and there is no evidence he was offered money for the information.

If his family are red-shirts, then why would he give information to a government run by political enemies?

Thailand hasn't always been the best neighbor and as they have grown economically and politically in importance and strength, they need to handle relationships in a much more mature manner.

[rixalex]

this case has been well manipulated for the interests of Thaksin and Hun Sen and for tjhe maximum embarrassment of the Thai government.

This ridiculous charade has been embarrassing but not for the Thai government.

[Publicus]

The poor guy probably had very little idea of what he was doing at the time. It's good he's due to be released.

Politics aside, all Mr. T would have had to do was call Hun Sen and tell him that as his economic advisor, keeping this guy in jail and further fueling tensions is bad for business.

Politics aside it's all politics.

Thaksin being appointed by his newest pal Hun Sen to be economic advisor to one of his oldest pals, Hun Sen, isn't politics? It's strictly economics and business? It's good geoeconomics and wise geopolitics? It promotes good and healthy international/bilateral relations?  

The point about a pardon "ceremony" is a salient one. I'm neither a diplomat nor a pardoned spy, so I recall midnight releases or tradings of spies in some forest or at a foggy bridge (pardon the melodrama but it's fact spies have been released in such ways ) rather than a ceremony attended by a turncoat flying in from his current undisclosed residence in an unnamed foreign land.

Politics aside, it's about 76 billion.

[Credo]

You may be right. It may all be politics. But make up my mind--politics or 76 billion?

There is no need for trading spies in the dark of night in a remote forest. Both countries have open borders, unlike the cold war era spy shows. I don't think there's anyone to trade anyway.

[Ricardo]

Thailand hasn't always been the best neighbor and as they have grown economically and politically in importance and strength, they need to handle relationships in a much more mature manner.

Agreed. Does the phrase "The UN is not my father" ring any bells ?

[WISteve]

- Cambodia surely is disrupting Thailands internal affairs. If you don't agree with that, well...then I presume you put less value on Thaksin than most red do.

Thailand's sycophantic royalist/loyalist 'government' and mainstream media is leading Thai people (and some foreigners apparently) to think that Cambodia is disrupting Thailands internal affairs.

Sorry, the Thai's are doing it to THEMSELVES.

I liked that cartoon a few years back that had Thaksin saying "Boo!" from Singapore and the military junta were pictured as crapping themselves behind their line of tanks and guns.

I would have to agree with you there. After all, it was Thailand's wonderful system that let him out on bail in the first place. he has become the bogeyman to blame all current problems upon. If it snowed on Xmas day here, it would probably be Thaksin's fault.

You do wonder though, if they stopped talking, thinking, dreaming, discussing, wondering about Thaksin, what would the Dems, Sondhi and all the others have to do all day?

Of course, the Dems would have to get serious about running the country, and Sondhi would be busy having a go at them. So better for all concerned if Thaksin stays well and truly in the public eye.

The healthy thing for Thailand's and Cambodia's citizens would be for the politicians to stop with their posturing and sit down to iron-out their differences. Sadly we are seeing nothing but the same old, same old in the Thai news media about the pardon. It is far too expedient to keep Mr T as the scapegoat for all the ills in Thailand, while the current administration ignores pressing needs in the Thai economy and society. I wish Mr T would simply fade away if he's not going to return to serve his sentence but the Dems and the media they control wouldn't hear of it.

~WISteve

[animatic]

Right on schedule, maybe even a little early.

[Jingthing]

Takki showing up for this so called "release ceremony" has got to be one of the most ridiculous political gestures imaginable. BTW, he looks quite tired in his recent photo. He is such a has been. This seals the deal.

[animatic]

Any bets those three countries DON'T border Thailand on several sides?

Lao and Myanmar being on that list.

Attempting to give the impression of surrounding Thailand with his warriors

or some such tactic. Or is that 'lunatictac'?

Edited December 12, 2009 by animatic