Ed Visa Crackdown

[jazzbo]

The extension of stay as well as the change of certain type of visa is solely at the discretion of the Immigration officer...

[korkenzieher]

They have been systematically closing all loopholes that allow foreigners to live here other than on a non-imm visa with WP, retirement visa, marriage visa or PR. So this is not a surprise. They are no doubt capable of using google to find all the ads offering ED visas for those who enroll in Thai language schools. The government view seems, rightly or wrongly, that long term residents below retirement age must be working without WPs and evading tax, so they don't want them here. Western countries would also not allow mature students to stay on ED visas for many years without getting degrees or diplomas from recognized institutions other than language schools. Perhaps they will limit ED visas for study at Thai language schools to, say, two years. Two years' full time study should be enough to achieve fluency in spoken and written Thai and enable serious students to go on to do a degree in Thai.

And then after learning Thai to a passable extent you are expected to leave?

So what is then, the earthly point of learning the language in the first place!

The whole point, surely, of the ED visa is to give people a legitimate longer term visa option. While study doesn't necessarily have to be language based, I think it is fair to test progress (in whatever subject area - even hairdressing) before renewal. I for one, having paid good money for the lessons (and processing - the cost of the visa in my passport is an additional cost), had full intent to get value for that money by attending lessons. But learning Thai only has any real value if you are ALLOWED TO STAY ON AND USE IT!

[Scott]

And therein lies the problem. Just try and tell an immigration officer that they can't give you a 'test' and see how far it gets you. This is true with most immigration officers in most countries.

[korkenzieher]

We will find out, in any case if you attend your course you will not have any problems at all, especially if you can open your Walen book that is all in Thai and can read it to them. It is a proof in itself that you are attending your lessons as very few foreigners can read Thai.

Walen School - Full support

www.thaiwalen.com

Very few Walen students too from what I hear, but i am sure you will claim otherwise.

Having attended Walen reasonably diligently, I can tell you what you 'hear' is wrong.

If Walen has a failing, it is that it concentrates too much on reading, and not enough on conversation.

Edited December 17, 2009 by korkenzieher

[DegenFarang]

Numerous posts have been deleted. Again, this thread is NOT about language schools or who can learn a language and who can't. It is about Educational Visas. Please stay on topic.

Thai language schools are the ones issuing the paperwork necessary to get an ED visa in most cases. Whether or not one can speak (learn) Thai has now become relevant to whether or not one can get an ED visa - so both of those topics are very relevant to this thread.

Edited December 17, 2009 by DegenFarang

[AskTheCPT]

*gulp*

I thought the folks @ immigration would just say, "Stupid Farang" and stamp their visas anyway.... I would guess this really depends on the officer who looks at your paperwork...

[Jonathanpattaya]

*gulp*

I thought the folks @ immigration would just say, "Stupid Farang" and stamp their visas anyway.... I would guess this really depends on the officer who looks at your paperwork...

Don't forget, they simply don't like us.

Quite frankly, the way some arrogant foreigners behave here, who can blame them?

[Brunus]

Somebody might think:

Is it my right to pay for my education and receive a visa in order to have this education?

Is it my right to be not very good in the subject I am studying?

Is it my right to pay for my education and receive a visa even if I don't attend class very often for personal reasons?

Basically can I pay for an education, be a bad student and still get a visa? Is that illegal?

Maybe judging my skills in a subject, in order to grant me the chance to have an education violates my human rights?

That somebody is not me. Don't have ED visa, never had and never will.

[punkonater]

Why does the Thai government always want to make things harder for themselves. Forcing International students to learn thai makes it harder for students to come here, and therefore some will be less willing to, which will lead to fewer international students, and therefore less money earned in Thailand off of them.

To be honest, if a school advertises that it's taught in English (like my uni, BUIC) then the student shouldn't have to learn Thai. It should be encouraged of course, since a university student will be spending a while here, but not forced.

Unless they send out notices to all schools that they need to inform students that learning basic thai is now required for a visa... what happened to the OP sounds like someone in the immigration office bs'ing.

[endlessimage]

You are dreaming, law and accounting offices where you can buy an ED visa that you can extend? Hm...., can you give us some examples because Im hearing this for the first time. I would be interested to know who is doing that as this would be indeed against the law. I would not call such a firm a law firm.

Err.... and some visa run companies too. And not only ED Visas - ANY type of visa. "you don't have to leave the comfort of your own home" I was informed.

[Lite Beer]

An Off Topic Post and another one discussing Moderation have been deleted.

[chiang mai]

10,000 hits in about eight hours on this thread, methinks Immigration is onto something here!

[samuitone]

How about someone whom is already almost fluent in Thai .... or would his Thai be to good after only 6 months

W

[/quote

Easy....Just restrict what you say, and 'improve' each time you visit immigration.

[macanello]

Just play by the rules and do what it says on the tin. I would love to learn Thai full time but cannot as Im working full time. I however teach myself when I can and dare I say watch Thai TV.

I do however speak 5 languages and Thai will be my sixth. And yes I am a Brit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do understand though that not all people find languages easy but the Thais also know this and have made exams ludicrously easy so no excuse here boys.

I hope they tighten up on this Visa as it will be better for all of us who actually live here.

[LivinLOS]

I dont understand the hassle anyway. There are LAW, + Visa&Accounting offices where everyone can buy a year Visa for 25k without visiting a shool.

Cheaper and more holiday

You are dreaming, law and accounting offices where you can buy an ED visa that you can extend? Hm...., can you give us some examples because Im hearing this for the first time. I would be interested to know who is doing that as this would be indeed against the law. I would not call such a firm a law firm.

1 year non imm B.. Will cost you less than 25k with a sponser letter.

hel_l our immigration sell em out the back door anyway.

[LivinLOS]

THAT is a good call. What if your Thai language skills are more than passable? Will that end your ED visa? Interesting. Just curious. dap

No, it will not. You have a right to learn here in Thailand as a wonderful gift from Thailand. The ED visa is the same in a language school as it is in a Uni.

Then why does one only get 3 month extensions and the other gets 12 months ??

[Parvis]

It will be better for all of us serious Thai language students to have the Education Visa rules enforced.

Some of the most vocal "Schools" are the most serious "Thai visa mill" offenders - making serious money on ed visas but teaching with shoddy inadequate materials.

I am a serious student and I resent the fact to have paid 22500 bath for 30 private lessons with inadequate teaching materials and when I complained I get personally attacked (and even threatened) by the Manager for being too old etc etc etc - but he never even had the decency to talk to me personally.

This enforcing of rules will only assure that those of us who are interested to study Thai will get what we paid for - a professionally conducted course with the latest improved teaching Materials possible.

[ben2talk]

Not all Ed Visas are based on a Thai Language course.

But all are based on a requirement of a minimum attendance. Up to now this does not seem seem to have been forced by the intitutions or immigration which I feel has had impact on the serious students.

I was afraid that what I consider aabuse of the visa would lead to a crackdown which would affect all students.

Some impact, I imagine. Some students are simply slow learners - and I know one student who attended fairly regularly for two years and he speaks a good deal less clearly than someone who lived in Thailand for around 6 months and actually wanted to learn.

In England, people quickly complain about the bloody foreigners that can't be bothered to learn the language. Remember now, there are maybe 100 times more bar hopping desperado's trying to get student visas and survive by holding down some part time work on the side.

If half the farang left tomorrow, it wouldn't have much impact - and if I wasn't one of them, it would certainly make me happier.

[tropo]

Why would anyone pay for an education and then not turn up for the course? Cheaper to keep flying in and out to Singapore on cheap flights and stamp on arrival! I would rather be shopping than crunching books - pillow dictionary always works to get you past the basics id the ed visa is the only option! .

You're dreaming. Monthly "cheap flights" in and out to Singapore will set you back a lot more than an Ed visa. I doubt you'll find anyone doing that as a solution to staying in Thailand year round. The cheapest in and out flight this month will set you back over 6000 baht, not including transport to and from the airport.

[moe666]

I love Thaivisa, just spent 15 min. going thru this thread the best free entertainment one could ask for.

[TexasRanger]

very few foreigners can read Thai.

Says who? What do you base your statistics on?

[ikke]

It's about time they ban the illegals, if you want to proof that you live or stay here on an ED visa, based on Thai language, then it is verry normal they test you on your improvement, if you don't improve after 3 months, out, easy...

[thaiphoon]

1 post and response to it has been deleted. A reminder of the forum rules:

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

[Maestro]

You are dreaming, law and accounting offices where you can buy an ED visa that you can extend? Hm...., can you give us some examples because Im hearing this for the first time. I would be interested to know who is doing that as this would be indeed against the law. I would not call such a firm a law firm.

excuse me but I wrote nowhere something about 1year ED VISA ! ...

You are absolutely right, moskito. You did not write "1 year ED VISA". You wrote "...education of people...a year Visa"

so if you are just intrested in the education of people, why you highlight he VISA conditions always?

I dont understand the hassle anyway. There are LAW, + Visa&Accounting offices where everyone can buy a year Visa for 25k without visiting a shool.

Cheaper and more holiday

I must be a bit thick but because you wrote that in reply to a post by macwalen, whose school emphasises the availability of the ED visa in its advertisements, also I automatically assumed that you were talking about the ED visa. This should teach me not to assume anything but instead to ask for clarification and I now ask you: which "year Visa" were you talking about?

--

Maestro

[wolf5370]

When my wife came to the UK (where we lived together for several years before we came to Thailand), she studied English in an adult education college. As she was married to a British citizen, and as the UK Government wants immigrants to learn English, the course was free for as long as she wanted to study it. She studied there over 3 years. Many of the foreigners there were on education type visas and had to have their attendence reported (there are a number of non-government ones - many in fact - that will tick your attendence even if you didn't turn up, same as here!). As this was a local government run college, it was all by the book. Each year there was a set of predefined national tests (they can be taken every 6 months I believe - at one instance my wife did two levels in the same year). She has certificates for several grades from level 1 up.

If Thailand really wants to check, then devise a set of tests. Maybe P1 Thai Language up to P6 (Example of P6 here --> P6 and P3 here --> P3) based. Expect students to pass each step each year (with a possible provision for retakes). Then attendence is mute - if they didn't go, then how did they learn the language. OK a few Thai speakers could slip through, but its a lot smaller hole than present. If they apply both attendence and regimented testing, then smaller hole still (as it would cost the Thai speakers to sign up for useless - to them - basic Thai courses). It would help to standardise teaching across the country too as schools, and students, have something meaningful to aim for. A small charge could also make it a cost free endeavor.

The tests would have to be independantly invigilated of course.

Oh, well.

Edited December 17, 2009 by wolf5370

[lung]

here's a bit of Thai to get them started:

som nam na

[GreenFace]

Hello all.

I have a 1year ED visa that i got from back home in the u.k. I have been in thailand for 2 months now and am wondering whai have to do regarding keeping my visa going for the full year. do i have to leave thailand after 3 months then re-enter? please help.

[Parvis]

The real problem is not that "students cannot learn" - but that "students" get an Ed Visa fraudulently and have no intention to study - but rather work illegally - AND these "Visa Mills" advertising their willingness to get them Visas fraudulently.

"24000 baht for 14 month Ed Visa - no more Visa runs every month - renewable for up to 10 years" etc etc etc..

The only thing left out in the advertising "no school attendance required".

[GreenFace]

I have been studding for the last 2 months may i add!! im just curious how i keep it going. do i go to the embassy? please tell.

[Maestro]

...The ED visa is the same in a language school as it is in a Uni.

Then why does one only get 3 month extensions and the other gets 12 months ??

The rule in Police Order No. 777/2551 for the extension of stay is the same:

2.9 In the case of enrollment in a private educational institution: Permission will be granted for a period as confirmed by the institution but shall not be more than 1 year at a time.

From what I’ve read in this forum it appears that for the study for a degree course, ie bachalor degree and up, at a private educational institution immigration will give an extension of stay for one year, for other studies for three months at a time.

--

Maestro