Swastikas And Thai Ignorance

[jvimolch]

When it comes to cultural and historical differences between the East and the West, many foreigners in Thailand are challenged in their beliefs and sense of right and wrong. Indeed there are many aspects of life here in the Land of Smiles that westerners could learn from. But while I love my country, I cannot but feel saddened and angered over the ignorance and indifference to the crimes of the past, on a global scale, that Thais seem to eschew when it comes to WWII, the Holocaust, and Nazism.

Now I'm not talking about the one or two swastika t-shirts being sold along Silom road. My issue is with an educational institution that is supposedly teaching the minds of tomorrow. I found out today that a magnet school for this country's most prestigious university will feature a "color sport day" where over a hundred students will be wearing Nazi armbands like members of the SS... replete with an iron-on swastika. I imagine that today's youth view Nazi Germany in somewhat of a romantic light given the Hollywood exposure and little or no academic counterweight. But for teachers I hold no such understanding or forgiveness. The teachers at this school saw no problem with students building team spirit with a symbol that saw millions of people murdered. Compared with Thailand's population during WWII, half that number of Jews, Gypsies, and Poles were murdered. 1 out of every 2 Thais would be dead simply because of their ethnicity. That this horrible period in World history is not properly taught or respected I find abhorrent.

As is so often said, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. What a truly sad day that will be when it comes to this country.

[Heng]

And in many cases, it's just indifference. The same indifference that folks in other countries might feel when they come across a Khmer Rouge or Imperial Japanese army symbol on eBay.

[jvimolch]

And in many cases, it's just indifference. The same indifference that folks in other countries might feel when they come across a Khmer Rouge or Imperial Japanese army symbol on eBay.

Sad but true. For all the advancement humans have made, we are still creatures of narrow vision.

[siggie2]

The swaztika sign has something to do with buddhism,or so i thought.If the sign is harmless in Thailand then tourists will have to accept that they do not mean any harm.

Are you actualy saying they are celebrating natizm,cannot believe for sure

[metisdead]

From Wikipedia:

Buddhism

A picture of a Red Swastika Society member.Buddhism originated in India in the 5th century BC and inherited the manji or swastika. Also known as a "yung drung"[16] in ancient Tibet, it was a graphical representation of eternity.[17] Today the symbol is used in Buddhist art and scripture and represents dharma, universal harmony, and the balance of opposites. One can see swastika on the Pillars of Ashoka where the swastika is a symbol of the cosmic dance around a fixed center and guards against evil.

The paired swastika symbols are included, at least since the Liao Dynasty, as part of the Chinese language, the symbolic sign for the character 萬 or 万 (wàn in Mandarin, man in Korean, Cantonese and Japanese, vạn in Vietnamese) meaning "all" or "eternality" (lit. myriad) and as 卐, which is seldom used. Swastika marks the beginning of many Buddhist scriptures. The swastika (in either orientation) appears on the chest of some statues of Gautama Buddha and is often incised on the soles of the feet of the Buddha in statuary. Because of the association of the right-facing swastika with Nazism, Buddhist swastika (outside India only) after the mid-20th century are almost universally left-facing: 卍. This form of the swastika is often found on Chinese food packaging to signify that the product is vegetarian and can be consumed by strict Buddhists. It is often sewn into the collars of Chinese children's clothing to protect them from evil spirits.

In 1922, the Chinese Syncretist movement Daoyuan founded the philanthropic association Red Swastika Society in imitation of the Red Cross. The association was very active in China during the 1920s and the 1930s

[jvimolch]

The swaztika sign has something to do with buddhism,or so i thought.If the sign is harmless in Thailand then tourists will have to accept that they do not mean any harm.

Are you actualy saying they are celebrating natizm,cannot believe for sure

Indeed! The swastika is an ancient symbol for peace... but the reversed sign, in a white circle on a red background is unmistakable. And while they are not celebrating Nazism, its not an excuse for perpetuating a known evil.

[siggie2]

The swaztika sign has something to do with buddhism,or so i thought.If the sign is harmless in Thailand then tourists will have to accept that they do not mean any harm.

Are you actualy saying they are celebrating natizm,cannot believe for sure

Indeed! The swastika is an ancient symbol for peace... but the reversed sign, in a white circle on a red background is unmistakable. And while they are not celebrating Nazism, its not an excuse for perpetuating a known evil.

You may be right or wrong but not worth getting your knickers in a twist.Time movers on ans so we all should

[DP25]

Eh? Where did you find this out?

The nazi themed sports day happened at a school already, several years ago, and after they issued an official apology to Israel and went through a holocaust education program.

[DP25]

Some school in Thailand often have themes on sports day. Cowboy, fireman, whatever. Everyone dresses up like the theme and they make decorations, then march around while all the parents smile and take photographs. One school chose WWII Germany as their theme, and had hundreds of kids dressed up like Nazis marching around in formation. You can probably find photos of it using google.

[Zzinged]

Eh? Where did you find this out?

The nazi themed sports day happened at a school already, several years ago, and after they issued an official apology to Israel and went through a holocaust education program.

Which school and in which country?

The OP was talking about a school here in Thailand that will, in the future, have this 'colour sports day'.

[whichschool]

I wouldnt have thought Thais are too up to date on PolPot killing 1 in 3 of the population right on their doorstep, but I can categorically confirm the Swastika symbol was not responsible for 1 death in WW2, just governments the world over that still to this day think its ok to go on mass killing sprees.

[DP25]

Which school and in which country?

The OP was talking about a school here in Thailand that will, in the future, have this 'colour sports day'.

In Thailand. The point is that the Nazi themed sports day, in Thailand, already happened several years ago, in Thailand. Once again, in Thailand, if there is any confusion. Search 'nazi school thailand' in google and you will see the pictures of it, which already happened, at a school in Thailand.

Which is why I'm curious as to where this information came from, and am thinking it's a rumor based upon an already happened event, rather than something that is actually going to happen again, in Thailand.

[jvimolch]

Which school and in which country?

The OP was talking about a school here in Thailand that will, in the future, have this 'colour sports day'.

In Thailand. The point is that the Nazi themed sports day, in Thailand, already happened several years ago, in Thailand. Once again, in Thailand, if there is any confusion. Search 'nazi school thailand' in google and you will see the pictures of it, which already happened, at a school in Thailand.

Which is why I'm curious as to where this information came from, and am thinking it's a rumor based upon an already happened event, rather than something that is actually going to happen again, in Thailand.

No, this will happen next month. How do I know? Because my sister was chosen to help iron on the swastikas onto the armbands. She came home with two full bags of patches and red arm bands. And the theme is not Germany... its just colors. Red, Blue, Yellow, etc. It was up to the students to decide on graphics (if any) would be added.

[Sherlocke]

Is it the Naziswastika r the original that is being used.

BTW - THe words "Swastika" and "Sawatdee Khap" have the same origin

[geriatrickid]

You may be right or wrong but not worth getting your knickers in a twist.Time movers on ans so we all should

Right. not too long ago some countries had whites only facilities, women were preluded from various professions etc. Time does march on, but the need for adaption and advancement does not end. How would a Thai feel if some of the old caricatures from the 1930's appeared on billboards.? Bare chested village girls drawing water is innocent enough and part of Thailand's history. Would it be okay to put up billboards celebrating that aspect of Thailand's history?

Edited December 30, 2009 by geriatrickid

[Brunus]

I wouldnt have thought Thais are too up to date on PolPot killing 1 in 3 of the population right on their doorstep, but I can categorically confirm the Swastika symbol was not responsible for 1 death in WW2, just governments the world over that still to this day think its ok to go on mass killing sprees.

Good point. I can't understand why swastika is bad but communist symbols are ok. Communists committed crimes that dwarf Hitler's.

Before some idiot will tell me I am a Nazi, I want to say that my grandfather was executed by the Nazis when my mom was 2 months old. I grew up with my widow grandmother who hates them. I just think that these 2 criminal ideology should be put on the same level.

[NamSod]

Every large country kills someone and depending on whether you lose or not appears to justify the hatred of their symbols.

Why is it that the winners never get blamed for their hate symbolisms?

All I can say is.. get over it.

The swastika is probably one of the oldest symbols on this planet and found on every continent.

http://www.freewebs.com/manwomans/savetheswastika.htm [Friends of the Swastika]

[daveh]

I would love to see a movement by buddhists to take back the swastika symbol.

[dumball]

'Brunus' date='2009-12-31 00:09:30' post='3234907']'whichschool' post='3234804' date='2009-12-30 22:51:47']I wouldnt have thought Thais are too up to date on PolPot killing 1 in 3 of the population right on their doorstep, but I can categorically confirm the Swastika symbol was not responsible for 1 death in WW2, just governments the world over that still to this day think its ok to go on mass killing sprees

Good point. I can't understand why swastika is bad but communist symbols are ok. Communists committed crimes that dwarf Hitler's.

Before some idiot will tell me I am a Nazi, I want to say that my grandfather was executed by the Nazis when my mom was 2 months old. I grew up with my widow grandmother who hates them. I just think that these 2 criminal ideology should be put on the same level.

Is that right ??? I lived through WW11 , the swastica was the emblem that drove the German killing machine , that gave it its power and its glory , the swastica was thought of as a sign of every thing evil , it hung over most doors/walls/windows or where so ever it could be hung to stir up the populace and goad them on to all of the atrocities that were commited in those terrible years . I watched the films of Auswitch and Belson with all of those human skeletons being thrown into huge trenches , watched the inhuman remains of what were once proud people helping each other stagger out of those wretched places to freedom .

NO , THE SWASTICA WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ONE DEATH , JUST fuc_kING MILLIONS .

My father spent the war on the front lines in the middle east RAF .

My brother was a Glorious Gloucester that fought the commies in Korea and spent 2 years as a POW , another brother helped push the Japs out of Malaya , yeah , yeah , please tell some of us we need to forget the past and move on .

[Huey]

Every large country kills someone and depending on whether you lose or not appears to justify the hatred of their symbols.

Why is it that the winners never get blamed for their hate symbolisms?

All I can say is.. get over it.

The swastika is probably one of the oldest symbols on this planet and found on every continent.

http://www.freewebs.com/manwomans/savetheswastika.htm [Friends of the Swastika]

Well Said the world dose not owe the Jews an apology. The Swastika was a Thai peace symbol long before some Europeans decided to use it as a symbol for killing other Europeans.

[dumball]

'daveh' date='2009-12-31 00:36:58' post='3234943']

I would love to see a movement by buddhists to take back the swastika symbol.

It is not the same swastica as the kraut one , it is ass about face .

[Brunus]

dumball

I have no sympathy for the nazis. I have no sympathy for communists either. My point is that both symbols should be treated the same way. So if you allow someone to proudly say he is a communist you should allow somebody to proudly say he is a nazi. I personally wouldn't allow none of them.

My grandmother hates nazis but she moved on. She is 90 and happy. She told me once that she won't allow her hate towards them to make her become like them.

[Jingthing]

I understand that Stalin was as evil as Hitler but I completely reject the absurd notion that the communist hammer and sickle symbol is by itself an offensive logo. It is not only about Stalin. It is the symbol of world communism through history. Today most communists reject Stalin. Today almost all Nazis worship Hitler. Equating the two symbols is just simplistic, and wrong. Obviously, Buddhist swastikas are NOT offensive, and obviously Nazi third reich Hitler style swastikas are offensive.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Jingthing

[wasabi]

Regardless of the history of the swastika which clearly predates Germany, what it means today is the holocaust and the murder of millions of Jews and others simply because of their religion and race. It is ignorant and disrespectful to wear the symbol since the link between the symbol and that time are the first impression one gets when they see it today. I have seen a couple shirts floating around that have the swastika and proudly bears the name Adolph Hitler across the chest as well to assure everyone the full meaning of the swastikas use. But TiT.

[Brunus]

Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, Fidel. All mass murderers with a common symbol. If modern communists want to break with their awful past they should also chose a new symbol.

[dumball]

'Brunus' date='2009-12-31 01:11:52' post='3234972']

dumball

I have no sympathy for the nazis. I have no sympathy for communists either. My point is that both symbols should be treated the same way. So if you allow someone to proudly say he is a communist you should allow somebody to proudly say he is a nazi. I personally wouldn't allow none of them.

My grandmother hates nazis but she moved on. She is 90 and happy. She told me once that she won't allow her hate towards them to make her become like them.

[/quote

I do not hate Germans , in fact have had quite a few German friends and a son-in-law is German by birth .Being a German and a nazi are two different things , even many Germans hated the nazis during WW11

[Brunus]

I never thought you hate Germans. I understand your feelings. I just tell you that my grandma moved on. She doesn't hate anybody anymore. Lucky her......

[Jingthing]

Although in practice communist governments have turned out to be totalitarian, there exist intellectual communists who believe in the ideals of communism (that turned out are easier to imagine than accomplish). Of course there is shame whatsoever for such people to be proud communists. It's not as if capitalism has been a smashing success for all humanity either. On the other hand if someone says they are proud to be a Nazi, what is there to be proud of?

Edited December 30, 2009 by Jingthing

[Brunus]

Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, Fidel. All mass murderers with a common symbol. If modern communists want to break with their awful past they should also chose a new symbol.

I forgot the North Korean dictators, and all the cruel regimes that were in power in eastern Europe

[endure]

Regardless of the history of the swastika which clearly predates Germany, what it means today is the holocaust and the murder of millions of Jews and others simply because of their religion and race. It is ignorant and disrespectful to wear the symbol since the link between the symbol and that time are the first impression one gets when they see it today. I have seen a couple shirts floating around that have the swastika and proudly bears the name Adolph Hitler across the chest as well to assure everyone the full meaning of the swastikas use. But TiT.

I bet that if you asked the Thai wearer of the shirt who Adolf Hitler was they wouldn't have a clue. BTW ancient Chinese silk drawings show the swastika being used either way round. For Hindus and Buddhists it's been a symbol of life and good luck for the past 3000 years.