Don't Give A Rip About English

[mrtoad]

No, I do not have a PhD. Yes, I know it is hard for you to wrap your mind around this.... but don't hurt your self. But if your friend is a "real doctor" with only a Masters degree, where I come from, he is yet to be a "doctor" as in a physician, nor is your friend considered to hold a doctorate degree. Scotland must have some pretty low standards, I guess.

Actually, sorry to rain on your pissing contest with Neeranam, there are many Medical Doctors that also have Masters degrees. For example one Consultant Psychiatrist that I worked with as well as being an MD also had a Masters in Medical Ethics, another one that I worked with had a Masters in Law. I'm using the UK as examples, and one of those Consultants was trained in Scotland. As for the GP's again - similar experience that they often had a Masters in another field of interest as well. I guess, Doctors in the UK like to expand their fields of knowledge.

Sure an MD(physician) can have an MS/MA in area fields, but it is not the MA/MS that warants them the tittle of "Doctor" it is the doctorate degree that does so.

I am more than aware of that , however that was not the point that I was making. i think you have misunderstood Neeranam's original point about Masters degrees and Doctors.

[IanForbes]

What does "my doctor is better than your doctor" have to do with the OP's topic? I thought it was about the lack of English speaking staff in various large, Thai corporations?

[mrtoad]

What does "my doctor is better than your doctor" have to do with the OP's topic? I thought it was about the lack of English speaking staff in various large, Thai corporations?

I agree, it seems some people want to talk about their own academic qualifications. Hopefully, they will now get back on topic.

[Dakhar]

No, I do not have a PhD. Yes, I know it is hard for you to wrap your mind around this.... but don't hurt your self. But if your friend is a "real doctor" with only a Masters degree, where I come from, he is yet to be a "doctor" as in a physician, nor is your friend considered to hold a doctorate degree. Scotland must have some pretty low standards, I guess.

Actually, sorry to rain on your pissing contest with Neeranam, there are many Medical Doctors that also have Masters degrees. For example one Consultant Psychiatrist that I worked with as well as being an MD also had a Masters in Medical Ethics, another one that I worked with had a Masters in Law. I'm using the UK as examples, and one of those Consultants was trained in Scotland. As for the GP's again - similar experience that they often had a Masters in another field of interest as well. I guess, Doctors in the UK like to expand their fields of knowledge.

Sure an MD(physician) can have an MS/MA in area fields, but it is not the MA/MS that warants them the tittle of "Doctor" it is the doctorate degree that does so.

I am more than aware of that , however that was not the point that I was making. i think you have misunderstood Neeranam's original point about Masters degrees and Doctors.

No, I did not misunderstand NM. The subject was doctors, the NM stated that he had aspiring students go of to Scotland (apparently the meca of medicine) to study pharmacy which is probably an MS degree. He also insuated that Thai nurses have poor English. Well if a Thai nurse with an MS has poor English, theyn why should any other medical professional, MS or above have any better? I doubt Neerman has ever steped a foot in any hospital beyond those with granite floors, and he wants to come here and act as an expert on all things medical in the Thai realm. Talk about a myoptic view of reality.....

[473geo]

What does "my doctor is better than your doctor" have to do with the OP's topic? I thought it was about the lack of English speaking staff in various large, Thai corporations?

They are providing an example of English being tiresome.......even I had not realised how boring it could be!!!!

I begin to wonder why I bothered learning it at all......after all it hasn't made me a doctor or anything!!!!.....

[Ijustwannateach]

Getting back to the OP, I would no more expect to find a Thai speaker in my local Kmart in rural Alabama than I would expect to find an accomplished English speaker working at the Big C (or whatever) in Khon Kaen.

I have met pretty good Thai speakers of English in Khon Kaen, but they earn considerably more than an information flunky in a supermarket.

[Neeranam]

You want to know what America has brought to the medical field?

I don't have the time to even begin a summary of that.

Scotland, the best place in the world to study medicine, news to me?

Yes go on - please something as important as penicillin, chloroform, or even cloning.

Ever heard of the Royal College of Surgeons?

Why do you think The Queen of England's kids were educated there. The future king William went to St,Andrews Uni too.

[Dakhar]

What does "my doctor is better than your doctor" have to do with the OP's topic? I thought it was about the lack of English speaking staff in various large, Thai corporations?

All I am doing is expanding from the corp world to medical (which in a lot of cases is also corporate.) NM wants to portray that all MDs here in Thailand or at least the ones working in Hi So facilities have awesome English.

As a person that works behind the closed doors, I can tell you this is far from the reality. Besides that, the people that run the diagnostic equipment, that create diagnostic studies, that doctors use to make critical judgements have (for the most part) horrid English skills. How are these people trained to use this equipment, operate, trouble shoot, and make diagnostic judgements based upong the findinds if they do not have English skills? How is this critical information even deemed to be accurate?

About 3 weeks back, I saw a CT scan and the report said normal middle and inner ear findings. There was nothing normal about the particular person's ear.

Saw another individual where the doctor orderd one type of study, and a completey different study was done & the patient still had to pay for the wrong study. (7k baht, plus flight to BKK, plus hotel) and the hospital, one of the ones NM mentioned, refused to reimburse this person!!!!!!!!!!!! The hospital didn't even want to admitt that they were wrong, until my name card was presented to the hospital. At that point in time they knew the game was up.

[Dakhar]

You want to know what America has brought to the medical field?

I don't have the time to even begin a summary of that.

Scotland, the best place in the world to study medicine, news to me?

Yes go on - please something as important as penicillin, chloroform, or even cloning.

Ever heard of the Royal College of Surgeons?

Why do you think The Queen of England's kids were educated there. The future king William went to St,Andrews Uni too.

So apparently nepotism & status is a requirement....

I guess I'm out then... shucks darn.

[a2396]

What does "my doctor is better than your doctor" have to do with the OP's topic? I thought it was about the lack of English speaking staff in various large, Thai corporations?

Yes, boys will be boys. A particular member here must be bored this New Year's holiday & has taken to amusing himself by "pot-shoting" other members comments, leading to a sideshow of his own. In the same vein, a swipe at my English skill was made, which I thought a bit out of line. Maybe he's working at finishing the New Year's liquor supply.

[PeaceBlondie]

I had a friend who earned a Ph.D. in bacteriology at Edinburgh (not the uni in Texas). Good school; one of the best. Since 1994, he has only worked as a bag-boy at the grocer's, but he had his prostate cancer cured at the best cancer hospital in the world: Houston, Texas

It doesn't matterrrrr.

[a2396]

Getting back to the OP, I would no more expect to find a Thai speaker in my local Kmart in rural Alabama than I would expect to find an accomplished English speaker working at the Big C (or whatever) in Khon Kaen.

I have met pretty good Thai speakers of English in Khon Kaen, but they earn considerably more than an information flunky in a supermarket.

Sorry, but that is an asinine and ridiculous comparison. How many Thai visitors does one expect to find in rural Alabama, compared to the number of English speaking tourists who visit Thailand? On the other hand, it would not be hard to find a Spanish speaking staff or even Chinese in many areas of USA. Political and cultural issues aside, many businesses and agencies in USA are well aware of the need to improve foreign language skills and have been making efforts to do such.

Some of these educated Thais I have met, who can speak decent English, get zero consideration, when it comes to employment in some of these “flunkie” jobs, as you call them. Their English ability counts for zip in many cases.

[Dakhar]

Part of the problem is, those that do have decent English or even fair English will demand for better pay (as they should) but the Corp. will not want to pay for this.

At our co. we have offices set in "target" tourist areas with the idea we can capture the tourist market. Trouble is, none of the staff working there can carry on any level of conversation in English. Our company simply would no pay what it would require to keep a strong English speaker.

Then you also ask, how much more revenue can a strong English speaker generate? If the answer is really zero or not much, then as an employer you can not justify spending the money.

I feel sorry for my wife because she really gets paid chicken feed when one considers her English.

Oh well, such is life in the Kingdom.

[Heng]

Myself I'm disappointed by the lack of flights to HK and Singapore at Utapao, the number of quality massage parlours open before noon, and am particularly annoyed by the local preference for scotch over bourbon (hence a fairly limited selection). But like the lack of broad spectrum English language support services, there's probably not nearly as much demand to warrant my wants, certainly not equal to or greater than what my overinflated 'surely I'm the center of the known Heng universe' ego causes my mind to imagine there must be.

[Ijustwannateach]

Getting back to the OP, I would no more expect to find a Thai speaker in my local Kmart in rural Alabama than I would expect to find an accomplished English speaker working at the Big C (or whatever) in Khon Kaen.

I have met pretty good Thai speakers of English in Khon Kaen, but they earn considerably more than an information flunky in a supermarket.

Sorry, but that is an asinine and ridiculous comparison. How many Thai visitors does one expect to find in rural Alabama, compared to the number of English speaking tourists who visit Thailand?

I was under the impression you were speaking of Khon Kaen (re-read your own initial post), and thus the comparison to rural Alabama is not at all out of order. I'm beginning to smell something under the bridge, here.

[kensingto]

As far as I know, most Thai youngsters are learning Chinese or Japanese as their secondary language. English has become a minor interest among Thais, despite of many English language schools you see around shopping malls. Surprisingly, Thais went to these language schools to learn Chinese.

[Dakhar]

My son will be going to a Thai/Eng/Chinese school next semmester. I wish him the best. But I must say it is the first school that I have been to of his, where the staff actually could carry on a conversation in English. I did not "test" their Chinese... maybe next time.

[Birdman]

Most of you natural born English speakers would not argue like that if you were born somewhere else. But I, for one, am glad that it's the international language, 'cause I had to learn it since I was a young pupil as a second language and compared to Latin or French it's easy to learn.

Sure if you never speak it at home you forget most of that, like most tourists do. But then they can communicate with Thais even better than a natural English speaker does.

Nothing will change.

[Ulysses G.]

Today as China looms, the need will be to speak Chinese, not English. There really is little need for English.

People like you used to say this about Japan once upon a time. Don't count your chickens until they have hatched.

[BHA83]

As far as I know, most Thai youngsters are learning Chinese or Japanese as their secondary language. English has become a minor interest among Thais, despite of many English language schools you see around shopping malls. Surprisingly, Thais went to these language schools to learn Chinese.

I take it you live in China town!

I've taught at a Tri-lingual school in Thailand and although Chinese was taught as a subject, English was the classroom language in all other subjects, apart obviously from Thai.

I have now been teaching for two years at a government school and they do have Chinese in the corriculum, taught by a Thai teacher for one hour per week! Compare that to the lesson hours given to teaching English, approximately five hours per week, per class.

One of my students had to prepare with my help, a speech for a speaking contest on..... 'Why it is important to learn English'. So obviously the Thai education department still considers English to be of greater importance.

Add to this, most of my neighbours are Chinese/Thai, very few can speak Chinese and practically none of the younger generation can. The parents send their children to the Mall for extra math lessons and...... English!

As for English being of minor importance to Thais, I am constantly told by Thais how they would love to be able to speak English, and asked if I could teach them.

Most if not all Thai students learn English at school from an early age. Their main disadvantage seems to be the chance to practice in the real world, and their shyness in making mistakes when given the opportunity to try their new learnt skill.

No official facts or figures, just my observations!

[WeeGB]

Expats need to learn Thai, Period. The language of the land Is Thai !

Country's like America are passing "English only laws",

After 10 years in Rural Thailand, what little Thai I speak ,is very poor and people do not understand what I say.

But I am Hearing Impaired and Thai Is a tonal Language!

When I go to Thai speaking stores, I take a picture of what I am looking for.

As the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words!

Works great for me!

Good Luck:

Cheer

Buy some hearing aids..... easy enough

Hopefully you'll never have hearing problems.

I understand this chaps problem's with the tonal based Thai language.

I have tinnitus, (a hissing sound in one ear), which not only makes it difficult to understand, and speak the tones correctly, but also disorientates where the sound is coming from. I've lived here 10 years and speak very little Thai, because of this. Thankfully most Thai people are more sympathetic.

I would agree though, that when one lives in a foreign country, one should learn the language, unfortunately for some of us, it's physically impossible.

[WeeGB]

My son will be going to a Thai/Eng/Chinese school next semmester. I wish him the best. But I must say it is the first school that I have been to of his, where the staff actually could carry on a conversation in English. I did not "test" their Chinese... maybe next time.

Hopefully your lad will do well. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there will be four main languages.

That of the country where the person lives, (in this case Thailand), English, (the international business language), Chinese ('cos there's so blinking many of them ), and Spanish, the main language of South America. Anyone who can master all of these languages should do well in life.

Sounds a decent school if the teachers can converse in English, most of the "English" teachers I've met here can't wait to get away, before they embarrass themselves with their poor knowledge of the language, or maybe it's my north east england accent that flumoxes them!

[TheJoker12]

Myself I'm disappointed by the lack of flights to HK and Singapore at Utapao, the number of quality massage parlours open before noon, and am particularly annoyed by the local preference for scotch over bourbon (hence a fairly limited selection). But like the lack of broad spectrum English language support services, there's probably not nearly as much demand to warrant my wants, certainly not equal to or greater than what my overinflated 'surely I'm the center of the known Heng universe' ego causes my mind to imagine there must be.

are there any open before noon?

[GucciLittlePiggy]

You want to know what America has brought to the medical field?

I don't have the time to even begin a summary of that.

Scotland, the best place in the world to study medicine, news to me?

Yes go on - please something as important as penicillin, chloroform, or even cloning.

Ever heard of the Royal College of Surgeons?

Why do you think The Queen of England's kids were educated there. The future king William went to St,Andrews Uni too.

The Queen of England? You're Scotch and you're claiming the Queen of England? You must be getting desperate...and I realise you can't polish a turd but the Queen's offspring are notoriously thick.

And if Scotch people are so great at medicine, why are you the unhealthiest country in the western world? Penicillin...chloroform...deep-fried mars bars...

America leads the world in medicine by a country mile. The Scotch punched above their weight for a bit but to claim Scotland as the centre of the medical world is laughable.

[TheJoker12]

The notion that Chinese will be a more important language than English is obviously wrong.

The bigger China grows, the more English they will speak and the less necessary it will be to speak Chinese in order to do business in China (just like everywhere else in the world). Sorry, but King George beat everyone to the punch (lol France) and the world will never change from the fact that English will be the universal language.

Edited January 2, 2010 by TheJoker12

[IanForbes]

In a week's time I will visit the Thai family I take care of in Kanchanaburi. I've known and loved the little girl since she was 4. Now she is 8 and going to a Thai school that teaches a TINY bit of English. Fong can parrot anything I say in perfect English, but she doesn't always know what she has said or what most of it means. I'm looking forward to seeing if she has learned anything new. Hopefully, she will also give this old fart some lessons as well. dam_n I envy and love the energy of children, and their bright, fresh outlook at life.

[GucciLittlePiggy]

The notion that Chinese will be a more important language than English is obviously wrong.

The bigger China grows, the more English they will speak and the less necessary it will be to speak Chinese in order to do business in China (just like everywhere else in the world). Sorry, but King George beat everyone to the punch (lol France) and the world will never change from the fact that English will be the universal language.

'Never' is an awfully long time...

Will China need the rest of the world should they {ahem} 'fulfil their potential'?

[simon43]

Isnt all "air traffic" communications in English too I mean for Pilots etc? I thought they were?

[\quote]

I also thought that was the case until I started listening to the radio traffic at Phuket Airport. Thai language is used 'as the norm' for communication between the control tower and Thai airlines such as AirAsia, OneTwoGo etc.

That situation does worry me a little....

Simon

[TheJoker12]

The notion that Chinese will be a more important language than English is obviously wrong.

The bigger China grows, the more English they will speak and the less necessary it will be to speak Chinese in order to do business in China (just like everywhere else in the world). Sorry, but King George beat everyone to the punch (lol France) and the world will never change from the fact that English will be the universal language.

'Never' is an awfully long time...

Will China need the rest of the world should they {ahem} 'fulfil their potential'?

What potential is that exactly? Are we to believe that China will not eventually face the same problems and stagnant periods of growth that the first world has? Is China that much bigger than the EU/Canada/USA/Japan? No. Let's get over this silly video game "WWIII" is around the corner obsession.

[sbk]

My son will be going to a Thai/Eng/Chinese school next semmester. I wish him the best. But I must say it is the first school that I have been to of his, where the staff actually could carry on a conversation in English. I did not "test" their Chinese... maybe next time.

Hopefully your lad will do well. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that there will be four main languages.

That of the country where the person lives, (in this case Thailand), English, (the international business language), Chinese ('cos there's so blinking many of them ), and Spanish, the main language of South America. Anyone who can master all of these languages should do well in life.

Sounds a decent school if the teachers can converse in English, most of the "English" teachers I've met here can't wait to get away, before they embarrass themselves with their poor knowledge of the language, or maybe it's my north east england accent that flumoxes them!

Chinese is not a uniform single language. And all the Chinese languages are just that, languages, not a dialect of the same language. A Cantonese cannot understand a Shanghainese who cannot understand a Hakka who cannot understand a etc etc. There are between 7 and 15 different languages in China depending on who you talk to. Mandarin is the official language but is not spoken by the entire nation.

As for Thais not wanting to learn English. hmm. Can't say I've really met any that have said to me they see no reason to speak English, usually its the other way around.