Don't Give A Rip About English

[GucciLittlePiggy]

I once went to a Car accessory shop in Bangkok to buy a cover for my Honda CRV. Standing by the covers I was approached by a sales man. He asked which car. I said Honda and then variations on the theme CRV, Honda CRV, showing the key etc. After 10 minutes of not understanding Honda (pronounced the English way) we had three staff there. Eventually the third guy had a brainwave and said, " Hon-DA". And the penny dropped!!!!

Its not like there are that many car makes commonly driven here and Honda sounded very similar to Hon- DA but unlike Mitshibushi, Toyota or Mazda. But those guys couldn't make the leap.

I now speak enough Thai to not have this hassle and I look back on it with a smile.

I think a significant problem here is being able to use the context of some word to guess a meaning. Even if the word is horribly mispronounced, if one can use contextual skills, meaning can be communicated.

However, Thais have very little or no contextual skills, at least that I've noticed. If the word is not perfectly pronounced, no matter the context, there is no communication. In English, I can mispronounce a word horribly, but the context will often aid communication.

Another example, similar to the Honda one: a long time back I was sitting in a street restaurant somewhere in Isan. I didn't expect English, so stumbled about with my very low food Thai. I was looking at the menu, I obviously wanted food, I pointed to an item, and apparently mispronounced it in Thai. The waiter immediately looked up and down the street, asking "Where?" The context was obviously food, but the word was perhaps something akin to firetruck. Hunh?

I've all but given up trying to order water in pubs/restaurants. I find WorTARRRRRRR! to be the most effective, but that only works about 10% of the time. I could understand if I were scouse, cockney, brummy, geordie or scotch, but I speak accent-less pitch perfect English.

[GucciLittlePiggy]

The notion that Chinese will be a more important language than English is obviously wrong.

The bigger China grows, the more English they will speak and the less necessary it will be to speak Chinese in order to do business in China (just like everywhere else in the world). Sorry, but King George beat everyone to the punch (lol France) and the world will never change from the fact that English will be the universal language.

'Never' is an awfully long time...

Will China need the rest of the world should they {ahem} 'fulfil their potential'?

What potential is that exactly? Are we to believe that China will not eventually face the same problems and stagnant periods of growth that the first world has? Is China that much bigger than the EU/Canada/USA/Japan? No. Let's get over this silly video game "WWIII" is around the corner obsession.

Well, we've already had WWIII (cold) and are in the middle of IV (terror), but you are a fool if you don't think there's one hel_l of a dust up in the offing. WWV - Resources.

Never forget: China has much more to gain (and hence much less to lose) than EU/Canada(????)/USA/Japan. You also (conveniently) forget India, Russia and Iran - all nuclear, all thirsty, all flexing their muscles. A strategic alliance there will pee all over us from a great height.

At the end of the day, Ron, all empires crumble - ours will too, very soon if we continue our complacency.

[kensingto]

As far as I know, most Thai youngsters are learning Chinese or Japanese as their secondary language. English has become a minor interest among Thais, despite of many English language schools you see around shopping malls. Surprisingly, Thais went to these language schools to learn Chinese.

I take it you live in China town!

I live in Pattaya. Will soon move to Bangkok after getting my visa renewed.

[chiangmaikelly]

As far as I know, most Thai youngsters are learning Chinese or Japanese as their secondary language. English has become a minor interest among Thais, despite of many English language schools you see around shopping malls. Surprisingly, Thais went to these language schools to learn Chinese.

I have lived in 5 different Thai cities and all of the government schools that I have seen have one Chinese instructor and 3 or 4 English Teachers. The same can be said for the small private schools. I see one Chinese school and 4 English schools.

I date one of the Chinese teachers, a Thai. She tells me the numbers in the schools. She does not speak much English. We speak Thai at home. I don't know any Thai children learning Japanese although I have one daughter who speaks and writes fluent Japanese.

I have met a lot of young people who want learn to speak English for one reason or another, like work for the airlines or be a rock star or doctor.

Now I live on the east coast in an idustrial area. A lot of Chinese, Korean and American firms. There are a lot of small language schools around but the great majority are English. Seems like a lot of teachers here from the Philippines.

I know a couple of Chinese engineers doing large projects here and they all speak pretty good English.

[TheJoker12]

A strategic alliance there will pee all over us from a great height.

Yeah and once the Chinese align with extraterrestrial life, its going to be the end of the modern world.

[MrHammer]

I would think that it's easier for the Chinese to learn English than for a foreigner to learn Chinese, mainly because of the written language, so I wouldn't expect American children to learn Chinese just yet.

The only times I am bothered with lack of English in shops is when I ask for an item and they do not understand it cause I pronounce it like it's meant to and not in Thaiglish.

[GucciLittlePiggy]

A strategic alliance there will pee all over us from a great height.

Yeah and once the Chinese align with extraterrestrial life, its going to be the end of the modern world.

Are you saying it's impossible for China to usurp America as the world's only superpower?

[PeaceBlondie]

Chinese has dialects. An 'alphabet' with a trillion characters. Thais will never learn that.

[Richard W]

Getting back to the OP, I would no more expect to find a Thai speaker in my local Kmart in rural Alabama than I would expect to find an accomplished English speaker working at the Big C (or whatever) in Khon Kaen.

I have met pretty good Thai speakers of English in Khon Kaen, but they earn considerably more than an information flunky in a supermarket.

Sorry, but that is an asinine and ridiculous comparison. How many Thai visitors does one expect to find in rural Alabama, compared to the number of English speaking tourists who visit Thailand? On the other hand, it would not be hard to find a Spanish speaking staff or even Chinese in many areas of USA.

Native or non-native? I'm not sure this isn't on a par with saying that you can often find Thai speakers in British hotels and supermarkets.

[Neeranam]

You want to know what America has brought to the medical field?

I don't have the time to even begin a summary of that.

Scotland, the best place in the world to study medicine, news to me?

Yes go on - please something as important as penicillin, chloroform, or even cloning.

Ever heard of the Royal College of Surgeons?

Why do you think The Queen of England's kids were educated there. The future king William went to St,Andrews Uni too.

The Queen of England? You're Scotch and you're claiming the Queen of England? You must be getting desperate...and I realise you can't polish a turd but the Queen's offspring are notoriously thick.

And if Scotch people are so great at medicine, why are you the unhealthiest country in the western world? Penicillin...chloroform...deep-fried mars bars...

America leads the world in medicine by a country mile. The Scotch punched above their weight for a bit but to claim Scotland as the centre of the medical world is laughable.

I'm not Scotch - that is an alcoholic drink. You mean Scots.

Not sure about the rest of the world but the Thais I've known, especially medical students would rather learn in the UK but choose the USA if they can't afford it.

Don't believe what you hear on Fox news.

[TheJoker12]

A strategic alliance there will pee all over us from a great height.

Yeah and once the Chinese align with extraterrestrial life, its going to be the end of the modern world.

Are you saying it's impossible for China to usurp America as the world's only superpower?

China is already a super power.

[p_brownstone]

It seems one can no longer directly "Quote" an OP in a reply.

Be that as it may, as an early Candidate for "Pedant of the Year 2010" I would like to point out that when the OP opines:

"I never cease to be amazed at the apparent disinterest in having English speaking employees,"

he is himself displaying a distinct lack of correct English language usage.

"disinterest" is not the same as "uninterest", however it sounds far more erudite and thus, I presume, the OP was seduced into using the word.

To explain:

A Judge in a Court of Law is "disinterested" - which means he is open minded, i.e. he has no pre-conceived ideas on a case before him and is prepared to make his decision based on the presentations of Counsel as they deliver their arguments.

He is definitely NOT "uninterested" - which actually means that he is not interested in anything anyone says on the matter.

Patrick

[473geo]

no I won't!!!

Edited January 2, 2010 by 473geo

[GucciLittlePiggy]

A strategic alliance there will pee all over us from a great height.

Yeah and once the Chinese align with extraterrestrial life, its going to be the end of the modern world.

Are you saying it's impossible for China to usurp America as the world's only superpower?

China is already a super power.

a) don't be ridiculous.

stick to the issue.

c) answer the question or bow out.

[GucciLittlePiggy]

You want to know what America has brought to the medical field?

I don't have the time to even begin a summary of that.

Scotland, the best place in the world to study medicine, news to me?

Yes go on - please something as important as penicillin, chloroform, or even cloning.

Ever heard of the Royal College of Surgeons?

Why do you think The Queen of England's kids were educated there. The future king William went to St,Andrews Uni too.

The Queen of England? You're Scotch and you're claiming the Queen of England? You must be getting desperate...and I realise you can't polish a turd but the Queen's offspring are notoriously thick.

And if Scotch people are so great at medicine, why are you the unhealthiest country in the western world? Penicillin...chloroform...deep-fried mars bars...

America leads the world in medicine by a country mile. The Scotch punched above their weight for a bit but to claim Scotland as the centre of the medical world is laughable.

I'm not Scotch - that is an alcoholic drink. You mean Scots.

Yeah, just a joke fella.

And I'll believe the facts when it comes to medicine, not wallow in patriotic BS.

[IanForbes]

I don't know what a Scotch person is... unless it is a guy who likes to drink a lot of Scotch whiskey.

Now, on the other hand, I come from Scottish ancestry, and many of my relatives are Scottish.

[Dakhar]

There is little doubt Scotland makes great tape

but as the world's leader in medicine well, it must be a very well kept secret. Thailand has a lot of those too.

[GucciLittlePiggy]

There is little doubt Scotland makes great tape

[GucciLittlePiggy]

I don't know what a Scotch person is... unless it is a guy who likes to drink a lot of Scotch whiskey.

Now, on the other hand, I come from Scottish ancestry, and many of my relatives are Scottish.

Then they will know that it's 'whisky'. Whiskey, ie with an 'e', is its Irish equivalent.

[nicolas18]

Well, I don't know about Khon Kaen, but I do know that employers in Bangkok do prefer to hire staff members who know at least some basic English.

For example, Tops Market now gives nametags of different colors to its employees. The color of the nametag is supposed to reflect the fluency of the employee in English. There is a sheet at the entrance of the store which explains in English the color codes.

Also, have you guys ever been to France? France is the most popular tourist destination in the world, at least in terms of annual numbers of tourists visiting the country. And yet, most Frenchmen can't speak English. Compared to them, most Thais are fluent English speakers. hel_l, even their President (Sarkozy) doesn't speak English.

[mca]

It seems one can no longer directly "Quote" an OP in a reply.

Be that as it may, as an early Candidate for "Pedant of the Year 2010" I would like to point out that when the OP opines:

"I never cease to be amazed at the apparent disinterest in having English speaking employees,"

he is himself displaying a distinct lack of correct English language usage.

"disinterest" is not the same as "uninterest", however it sounds far more erudite and thus, I presume, the OP was seduced into using the word.

To explain:

A Judge in a Court of Law is "disinterested" - which means he is open minded, i.e. he has no pre-conceived ideas on a case before him and is prepared to make his decision based on the presentations of Counsel as they deliver their arguments.

He is definitely NOT "uninterested" - which actually means that he is not interested in anything anyone says on the matter.

Patrick

Have to disagree with you there Patrick. Although nowadays mostly used to, as you said, show impartiality in the OP's context "disinterest" is perfectly acceptable.

[nicolas18]

I concur with mca! (God, I love that verb, it makes me feel smart).

dis·in·ter·est (ds-ntr-st, -ntrst)

n.

1. Freedom from selfish bias or self-interest; impartiality.

2. Lack of interest; indifference.

Edited January 3, 2010 by nicolas18

[sharecropper]

I've all but given up trying to order water in pubs/restaurants. I find WorTARRRRRRR! to be the most effective, but that only works about 10% of the time. I could understand if I were scouse, cockney, brummy, geordie or scotch, but I speak accent-less pitch perfect English.

Ahem. Try it in Thai.

[sharecropper]

I concur with mca! (God, I love that verb, it makes me feel smart).

dis·in·ter·est (ds-ntr-st, -ntrst)

n.

1. Freedom from selfish bias or self-interest; impartiality.

2. Lack of interest; indifference.

And, linking the Scots, judges and the word "concur", when I was a law student there were a lot of Appeal Court cases where this judge called Lord Keith of Kinkel would always just go along with the often suicidally turgid masses of pages of the presiding judge's closely argued judgement, and all LKoK would say was "I concur".

It used to make me laugh and being a lazy student, I liked his style, but never tried t emulate it in exams.

It was the legal equivalent to "what he said".

[mca]

Like it.

I did a presentation in front of our visiting Asia Pacific director when I worked in Bangkok years ago. Chart after chart of diagrams etc. Took a lifetime. After the presentation the director asked my immediate boss if he had anything to add.

"MCA summed up my thoughts succinctly" the lazy bugger said.

[PeaceBlondie]

I've all but given up trying to order water in pubs/restaurants. I find WorTARRRRRRR! to be the most effective, but that only works about 10% of the time. I could understand if I were scouse, cockney, brummy, geordie or scotch, but I speak accent-less pitch perfect English.

Ahem. Try it in Thai.

Would that naam? Or na^am? Or nám, or naá^m with an inverted umlaut followed by a definer for a wet clear cool thingy?

[nicolas18]

In my experience, most Thais will understand some basic English BUT only if the English words are pronounced the "Thai way".

Let me explain : I live close to Central Bangna. Not close enough to there on foot though, so I usually take a motorcycle to go there. The first few times I tried to get the driver to get me to Central, I had to repeat myself for a zillion times before he finally understood. Then I got it : instead of pronouncing Central "Central", they pronounce it the Thai way : "Centrahl".

The same goes for a lot of other words. If you pronounce water "worter", there is a good chance that they won't understand you. Try "wahter".

[Heng]

Chinese is not a uniform single language. And all the Chinese languages are just that, languages, not a dialect of the same language. A Cantonese cannot understand a Shanghainese who cannot understand a Hakka who cannot understand a etc etc. There are between 7 and 15 different languages in China depending on who you talk to. Mandarin is the official language but is not spoken by the entire nation.

It's fairly easy to communicate with a notepad and pen though. That's how it's done in most Chinese "Chinatown" outposts across the world between Chinese of different dialects. Then it's only a matter of time before commerce starts to flow and we all speak that language. Between other groups you typically need to get a translator first, or folks give up or lose heart because the locals don't give a rip about my language.

[PeaceBlondie]

In my experience, most Thais will understand some basic English BUT only if the English words are pronounced the "Thai way".

Let me explain : I live close to Central Bangna. Not close enough to there on foot though, so I usually take a motorcycle to go there. The first few times I tried to get the driver to get me to Central, I had to repeat myself for a zillion times before he finally understood. Then I got it : instead of pronouncing Central "Central", they pronounce it the Thai way : "Centrahl".

The same goes for a lot of other words. If you pronounce water "worter", there is a good chance that they won't understand you. Try "wahter".

Central=Centran. Mahidol Road=Mahidon. It's not English; it's Thailish. It's rubbish.

.

[Donnyboy]

In my experience, most Thais will understand some basic English BUT only if the English words are pronounced the "Thai way".

Let me explain : I live close to Central Bangna. Not close enough to there on foot though, so I usually take a motorcycle to go there. The first few times I tried to get the driver to get me to Central, I had to repeat myself for a zillion times before he finally understood. Then I got it : instead of pronouncing Central "Central", they pronounce it the Thai way : "Centrahl".

The same goes for a lot of other words. If you pronounce water "worter", there is a good chance that they won't understand you. Try "wahter".

Central=Centran. Mahidol Road=Mahidon. It's not English; it's Thailish. It's rubbish.

.

huh, would that be lub-bish?