Thai Expat Arsinization Syndrome

[tim armstrong]

I seem to have the opposite. When I arrived here over 2 years ago I quickly went down with TEAS. Living in a Thai area of Bkk and not speaking the language were the main causes as well as expecting everything to work the same as back home.

After 6 months of major TEAS I opened my business and found that just as TEAS inducing but I then started taking a THai medicine that was slow acting but has almost completely cured me. I still have a bit of a whinge now and again but in the main I have learnt to love it here.

Ask your teerak to get you some of this medicine. I dont know the English name for it but the Thai's call it Mai Ben Rai, and it is available everywhere. It is best taken daily with weekly injections of Thai language lessons. It worked for me.

Agree with all that. I think no language skills, alienation from home, less money, the humidity, too much chilli, and the realisation that while thais might not travel much, they do know what they want all contribute to TEAS. But Teas is only a symptom of a much larger disease LLDWLS low level dissatisfaction with life syndrome that is a western world epidemic. Many sufferers do indeed seem to have gravitated to Thailand with this condition.

[Eff1n2ret]

There was a whole TV series in the UK entitled "Grumpy Old Men", featuring sundry geezers (not all of them that old) banging on, mostly amusingly, about whatever topic was attracting displeasure that week. The basic proposition, with which I agreed, was that once you've got a lot of miles on the clock you don't have to accept every new development in the world as an "improvement" just because some bright young tw@t says it is.

So it's not a Thailand thing. When you realise you're on the last few laps you're entitled to get a bit grumpy. I'm at one with the poster who sits in the bar and screens out unwelcome approaches with a grumpy posture. I guess that means that two such kindred spirits will never actually get to speak to each other.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Eff1n2ret

[DegenFarang]

This is a topic that gets posted every other day.

I've never seen it posted - and if it has been I highly doubt it has ever been responded to with such great and honest replies and lack of flame. I think we are getting somewhere!

[DegenFarang]

But is it Maebhenrai when a tourist is scammed, when a French couple are attacked for parking in a public area.?

Unfortunately, yes...

I had my notebook, iphone and camera stolen from my hotel in koh samet. I surprised even myself with how well I took it, on my birthday no less. 'Mai Ben Rai' and a sigh. That was about the extent of my frustration over the issue. Whoever stole them obviously needed the money a lot more than I do, hopefully it went to good use.

[mahtin]

This is a topic that gets posted every other day.

I've never seen it posted - and if it has been I highly doubt it has ever been responded to with such great and honest replies and lack of flame. I think we are getting somewhere!

Probably the usual suspects were deterred by lack of comprehension of the title - assininity might have attracted some.

Grumpiest expat? Something up with which my wife would not put.

[powderpuff]

Biggest Arsination I see is the guy who started this thread.

[Birdman]

The typical grumpy expat became so, because he could not handle locals not dancing to his fiddle like he wants them to. He came here and wants to have the best of both worlds simultaneously regardless of a complete other culture around him. That makes him not realise, that all the advantages and comfort he can enjoy are directly connected with all the disadvantages and discomfort he has to fight here day by day.

[galvheim]

I feel there is too much focus on Westeners with regards to this thing called TEAS. I know quite a few Thais who are quite grumpy, unsatisfied, unhappy, and all the other adjectives you have applied to this so far.

One Thai, I saw every day last year. He was middle class, and was my landlord. He was a complaining guy, who saw bad, unfair things going on around his life every day. He complained about not having enough money, no good friends, no good life, no good wife, idiot customers, idiot bank, idiot government, idiot drivers, idiot neighbours, no future, lying people, false people, idiot workers, bad smells, noisy, faulty computer, and much much more.

He saw problems all around himself. I tried to help him see things diffrently by telling him that there might not be much better in Norway, or explaining to him that we all have our struggles from time to time. Governments and police in all societies are corrupt in some ways, and that he should be happy for what he have and understand that he has a lot of things other people would very much wish for.

This is not the only Thai, that I have met who was like that.

I saw the uncle of my girlfriend was a grumpy chap bored and annoyed from his own life.

I listened one hour to a 45 year old cooking-lady, who with no skills whatsoever, had opened a failing spaghetteria.

Many other people I have felt a strong oozing of grumpyness and recentment from too, but have never been interested to find out what their problem is or sometimes not even deared to upset them with my presence. All Thais.

Other just look like they are like that, and then suprise me with beeing quite positive people.

I think this is human nature, of people having been dissappointed by many things in life, and therefore have set up a fortress around themselves to avoid further dissapointments. Or its just selfishness or lack of empathy making it difficult for them to see that their situation is not unique or that special, and that they share this world with others. A personal trait not common to only farangs. The reason I think people see this as a farang-problem is because they are farangs themselves, and that it takes time to gwet under the skin of Thais.

[Maizefarmer]

Degen farang

Putting it a bit harsh aren't you??

Yes - some truth to your statement though.

I think many ex-pats become somewhat disallusioned. The "romance" wears off and reality sets in - but, wherever one choices to live they take themselves (and their baggage) with. The experience becomes what one makes of it.

[Seismic]

This is a topic that gets posted every other day.

You are absolutely correct, its just someones clever way of saying the same old s**t,

and that is:

Its not your country how dare you defame it

If you dont like it go home

You dont have the right to say that

this is not ....(insert country)

etc etc

yadda yadda

Sorry mate, I have heard it all before from you "look at me I am a really nice politically correct guy who wants everyone to wear my nice rosy glasses" type.

Who the hel_l are you to tell everyone not to complain when they see something is wrong???,,, oh sorry you are the "its not your country" person, well screw you, I have lived here for close to 29 years, and spent the bulk of the money that I have earned here, so I feel I have a right to get on this forum and say "HEY" I'm not too happy about this.

So if you dont like arsinization, I suggest you go home to your country !!

regards

[Seismic]

I feel there is too much focus on Westeners with regards to this thing called TEAS. I know quite a few Thais who are quite grumpy, unsatisfied, unhappy, and all the other adjectives you have applied to this so far.

One Thai, I saw every day last year. He was middle class, and was my landlord. He was a complaining guy, who saw bad, unfair things going on around his life every day. He complained about not having enough money, no good friends, no good life, no good wife, idiot customers, idiot bank, idiot government, idiot drivers, idiot neighbours, no future, lying people, false people, idiot workers, bad smells, noisy, faulty computer, and much much more.

He saw problems all around himself. I tried to help him see things diffrently by telling him that there might not be much better in Norway, or explaining to him that we all have our struggles from time to time. Governments and police in all societies are corrupt in some ways, and that he should be happy for what he have and understand that he has a lot of things other people would very much wish for.

This is not the only Thai, that I have met who was like that.

I saw the uncle of my girlfriend was a grumpy chap bored and annoyed from his own life.

I listened one hour to a 45 year old cooking-lady, who with no skills whatsoever, had opened a failing spaghetteria.

Many other people I have felt a strong oozing of grumpyness and recentment from too, but have never been interested to find out what their problem is or sometimes not even deared to upset them with my presence. All Thais.

Other just look like they are like that, and then suprise me with beeing quite positive people.

I think this is human nature, of people having been dissappointed by many things in life, and therefore have set up a fortress around themselves to avoid further dissapointments. Or its just selfishness or lack of empathy making it difficult for them to see that their situation is not unique or that special, and that they share this world with others. A personal trait not common to only farangs. The reason I think people see this as a farang-problem is because they are farangs themselves, and that it takes time to gwet under the skin of Thais.

If you think the landlord and your uncle are bad, please stop round my house and meet my wife, so is really vituperous when it comes to politicians police and everything else going on here

[DegenFarang]

This is a topic that gets posted every other day.

You are absolutely correct, its just someones clever way of saying the same old s**t,

and that is:

Its not your country how dare you defame it

If you dont like it go home

You dont have the right to say that

this is not ....(insert country)

etc etc

yadda yadda

Sorry mate, I have heard it all before from you "look at me I am a really nice politically correct guy who wants everyone to wear my nice rosy glasses" type.

Who the hel_l are you to tell everyone not to complain when they see something is wrong???,,, oh sorry you are the "its not your country" person, well screw you, I have lived here for close to 29 years, and spent the bulk of the money that I have earned here, so I feel I have a right to get on this forum and say "HEY" I'm not too happy about this.

So if you dont like arsinization, I suggest you go home to your country !!

regards

Based upon this post I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you are exactly the type of person I was talking about in the OP, apologies if I've made an incorrect assumption, but:

Were you like this before you came to Thailand or did you turn into this person while here? If you had stayed in your home country those 29 years do you think you would have the same disposition and be on forums complaining about things you don't like about your home country? Or do you think Thailand specifically caused this?

I'm not so much passing judgement on people afflicted with TEAS as I am curious as to the factors that make it happen. Whether it is innate and those types of people are somehow drawn to Thailand or if there is something about this culture that causes TEAS. Either way, it's not something that can be helped. We can't choose our personalities - whether we came here with them or they were shaped while we were here - so it's not a criticism, just an observation and some questions about that observation.

[tommybkk]

I had this before. Try drugs

[cognos]

first: the bouquet:( in Isolation ) your post is generally admirable in my books

Preface: Degen..I stand to be corrected, if this synopsis is incorrect :

second: i have read some of your previous replies to various posts ( that part is indisputable), and I noticed that you were QUITE judgemental and generally overly NEGATIVE towards the poster ( it was not me). I felt it was unfair to the poster, and from MY ( perhaps i was mistaken, to take the high road here ) perception, you appeared to harbour some degree of BITTER resentment, in fact I will allege you even displayed SOME of the syndrome that you describe here ( not that there is anything wrong with that ).

Is there any grain of truth to this ?? If so, it is not an indictment of you; it just illustrates that we can ALL have bad days, and you may KNOW some of the reasons for the Syndrome YOURSELF, as opposed to coaxing them out of others. If there is an ulterior motive, i totally understand, as i've done it myself.

MY POINT??? In summation, you seem to be full of rosy, positive vibes in this post, unlike what I read in SOME replies to other posters ( not mine ). If true, this could be construed as somewhat two faced, or at the least, not consistent in your approach??

Epilogue: You seem to sincerely want genuine, caring feedback on the issue you present, and that is why I was surprised to see that it was you presenting this topic, in light of your general tome in other things i read from you, sir. No hard feelings either way..

signed: maybe you've suddenly "lightened" up, or mellowed out..a quick epiphany, which is admirable in itself

[DegenFarang]

I'm not going to take the bait. You can think what you want. In any case, this thread is not about me and I hope it can stay on topic and respectful.

[David006]

so true ..I have a particular friend/aquaintance of 4 years with whom I converse by telephone..the whole conversation is usually one long winge about Thailand /Thais his girlfreind ..of course he is a POME .

I asked my wife if I am like that... she said YES... sometimes but if you were as bad as "X" I would leave you alone. I have been an expat in many countries and was told I was a "Sote Pil" in South africa, Told to f.. off home to Limey land in Canada and just ignored in Australia whenever I winged...I think I am getting near to the "mai pen rai ?"stage now... hopefully..except when I am WAITING for my dear wife tryin on f..g clothes! Then she tells me I have a face like a snake!

[David006]

The typical grumpy expat became so, because he could not handle locals not dancing to his fiddle like he wants them to. He came here and wants to have the best of both worlds simultaneously regardless of a complete other culture around him. That makes him not realise, that all the advantages and comfort he can enjoy are directly connected with all the disadvantages and discomfort he has to fight here day by day.

:D

[David006]

This is a topic that gets posted every other day.

You are absolutely correct, its just someones clever way of saying the same old s**t,

and that is:

Its not your country how dare you defame it

If you dont like it go home

You dont have the right to say that

this is not ....(insert country)

etc etc

yadda yadda

Sorry mate, I have heard it all before from you "look at me I am a really nice politically correct guy who wants everyone to wear my nice rosy glasses" type.

Who the hel_l are you to tell everyone not to complain when they see something is wrong???,,, oh sorry you are the "its not your country" person, well screw you, I have lived here for close to 29 years, and spent the bulk of the money that I have earned here, so I feel I have a right to get on this forum and say "HEY" I'm not too happy about this.

So if you dont like arsinization, I suggest you go home to your country !!

regards

ouch! and who pee'd on your cornflakes this beautiful Thai morning....

such an entertaining thread , lets not get tooo worked up... too nice a day for a coronary..

reminds me of Monte Python complaint dept skit or maybe the "argument" or "travel agency" lol Have a nice day..lol..

Now where did I put those rosey glasses ..bet some ..@#$%^&* stole 'em and it'll probably rain later and why is internet so slow and why can't I buy chocolate hobnobs in this country......"not much of a cheese shop" either...??

[PeaceBlondie]

May I ask you to each review your last 50 or 100 posts? Have you made mostly helpful comments, cheery remarks? How argumentative are you? Are you grumpy or angry?

[Ulysses G.]

The typical grumpy expat became so, because he could not handle locals not dancing to his fiddle like he wants them to. He came here and wants to have the best of both worlds simultaneously regardless of a complete other culture around him. That makes him not realise, that all the advantages and comfort he can enjoy are directly connected with all the disadvantages and discomfort he has to fight here day by day.

I concur.

[TheJoker12]

it seems like for many farang their number one topic of discussion is how many farang there are that dont love thailand as much as they do. you'd think you'd have some other hobbies than looking at other people by now. they should just have a "loves thailand the most contest" and be done with it. the 2nd most favorite topic of discussion is "Good Girl Blah Blah Blah"

A very intellectual group we have here.

[MrRichard2009]

If it's actually a new syndrome and not a life long one my guess would be the alcohol ...... it's a depressant and people tend to use more and more over time, so they become more depressed for longer each month until being angry and depressed becomes a habit even when sober. I would also say being grumpy seems to come along with age for a lot of people everywhere. I don't think it has anything to do with Thailand, people who get grumpy and drink to much are everywhere.

[MikeyIdea]

So if you dont like arsinization, I suggest you go home to your country !!

Seismic, you are wrong. Your post also suggests that you in fact are affected by Arsinization.

I think that Degenfarang is posting about a very true phenomenon. Although it is not only present in westerners who live in Thailand, and certainly not in all, it is clear that an environment that the westerner has problems understanding and accepting encourages the development of Arsinization.

It is a very normal response to entering an environment that we don't understand. One of the main root causes is stress. Not work overload stress but simply stress coming from not understanding, not liking, not accepting, not wanting to…, everything with 'not' in, which creates stress and negativity, everything that is upsetting. Personality is another root cause explaining why Arsinization can exist everywhere, to a greater or lesser extent. Thailand is obviously in the greater category. ThaiVisa goes off the scale. In fact, there is enough Arsinization content on this website for a Ph.D

There is no quick cure to Arsinization, it's a gradual process where personal development plays a big part, learning about what is increasing the stress level another, awareness of the symptoms a third one. There are so many stages that we all must go through in life, adding the mental stress of living in an alien environment are just adding a few more.

Edited January 7, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[caf]

"I'm going to have to side with the Tuk Tuk driver on this one, especially if it is true that the guy swore at him and kicked him or even made a motion toward him with his feet, which as we all know is the worst form of insult in Thai culture.

All that over 50 baht ey? Ya it's a scam but it's less than $2 and he should have asked somebody how long it would take. You can never in any business in any country negotiate a price for a service, take that service, then upon completion pay a different price and walk away.

Typical egotistical tourist unaware of Thai culture, thinking he is superior and the small little smiling man in the tuk tuk can't do anything about it. He learned his lesson and hopefully will be more respectful in the future."

(No reference at all to the victim assaulted by 2 Thais - the normal 2 on 1 configuration.)

I find this quote difficult to reconcile with your opening post where you are asking what makes people cynical here.

Given your opinion on the tuk tuk assault can you explain why long-term expats take views like your own.

There are some interesting insights in this thread but I am having difficulty with this one.

caf

[cognos]

I'm not going to take the bait. You can think what you want. In any case, this thread is not about me and I hope it can stay on topic and respectful.

fair enough.. can take that at face value.. I will now assume you genuinely want insight, as opposed to something else, which of course is now of no consequence.

From this average-brained person (at best), I could theorize perhaps the "syndrome" is a learned bias from subjective, self -negative( glass half empty perceiving folks) - perceived analysis of various situations that grows like a cancerous tumour over time. The folks that inhabit LOS as expats come in all degrees of function / dysfunction, the full gamut.. one could very well speculate that LOS attracts some of the finest examples of farang that one could find anywhere, and also the prime examples of the LOWEST common denominator.

In the case of the former and the latter, attitude equals altitude. Perhaps the former are successful in most things, work, relationships, finances, etc. where they came from, and the trend continues in LOS. Perhaps the latter are already somewhat full of issues, and come equipped with a fairly heavy degree of negative attitudes PRIOR to being LOS expats, thus their concomitant baggage may lend itself to display behaviours that you allude to, and in fact seek explanation for why those folks seem to be the "prime movers" of the syndrome you aptly describe.

Moreover, like the few rotten apples that taint the whole barrel, these folks often stand out like surly sore thumbs, and whether they are complaining on TV of victimization of one sort or another, or showing their displeasure in any number of ways as succinctly mentioned in previous posts, this "disgruntled" group of expat farangs will generally NOT be swayed to change their negative behaviours, as they have made their bed and are determined to sleep in it.

Thank God they are in the minority, as the well - adjusted expats go about their daily lives, positive, glass half full folks, happy, and with peace of mind, in LOS, or wherever they hang their proverbial hats.

[cognos]

..would like to also add that my initial impression was probably wrong, and I sincerely wish you all the best, and God Bless ( regardless of religion or not), Cognos

[richieudon]

Indeed, one of the symptoms of TEAS is "bastard face".

Just check out any bar or farang hangout. Spot the guy (it's usually a guy) who's been here x number of years with the expression of indignance/annoyance/anger/rage/suppressed rage permanently settled upon his features.

Hahahahahahahahaa!!

"Bastard Face!"......Love it!!

[eek]

I know only a couple of guys that i could maybe say that about, most of the guys i know are happy and have a zest for life (even the older ones!).

Actually, its got me wondering if female expats here are generally happier here? Most all that ive met that live here have positive attitudes. Any with less than that, is usually about stuff not specific to Thailand. Maybe because many expat woman that choose to live here came with a different criteria than some of the expat men? Plus of course, there are more expat men than women..so hard to gauge.

[humbug]

maybe a lot of guys are lonely in thailand, sometimes having groups of friends who may leave,change careers and cities or pass away makes it tougher keeping a strong set of friendships

For many years i always had a strong set of friends in bangkok but i would think the last couple years i have seen my set of close friends drop from about 15 to maybe 5, so now i get out more and join different clubs etc to keep myself more busy

[Credo]

It's generally a male sort of thing and it usually happens to older men. It has little to do with Thailand. Men move from a large social circle in their youth to a much narrower social circle as they get older. In older men, the social circle is often limited to their colleagues or co-workers. Married men get forced into more socialization because wives will usually do things like insist we go out to eat with so-and-so and her husband. "You'll love him." Men reluctantly go along.

When men retire, they are often abandoned by their colleagues because they don't work with them anymore and work is the focus of their social affairs. A significant number of men die not long after retiring.

Keeping and maintaining a social circle is a fair amount of work for men and some just give up and become grumpy. Thailand, for a whole lot of reasons, may accentuate this problem.

Of course, heavy drinking and alcoholism make socializing easier--we really don't mind those mindless idiots we are with, but wouldn't be caught dead around if we were sober!