The "dinner Guest On The House" Scam.

[MiG16]

Sean

it is unfortunate that this happened, and your narrative of how you came to buy her a drink on the first night sounds like a decent with no hidden agenda attached in my opinion. when Im outside of Thailand, I see things like that happen a fair bit (but usually in bars and not restuarants)

but to be fair to you - usually women /waitresses/waiters/random strangers/workers in the establishment shouldnt be hovering around their customers while they have no duty there. she did. you were being polite. no big harm done.

however, what I dont understand is - on the second night when they brought the bill why didnt you at least question it? let them know that all you ordered was the one meal and one drink? by not voicing your concern, you cant quite know what transpired. maybe the woman told the cashier you invited her, maybe the cashier and the cook are in on it together, or maybe whatever else. by not questioning it, you legitimised it and whatever story the cook may have told other colleagues is now believed.

(just throwing some scenarios - point is - there is no reason why you couldnt have raised some objection, even if later you decide to pay just to avoid further hassle/misunderstanding/argument)

[Totster]

I'm not sure I understand your KFC analogy? It would be the same as if you walked into KFC and asked the girl behind the counter if she wanted to have a sit down, a chicken wing and coke with you.... which in my book would mean "Yes you are after women".

Old foreign guy buying Spys for a waitress in Thailand is not considered "common decency". You need to be more aware of the local mindset if you plan to be here long.

The KFC analogy is an attempt to explain to you that I was looking for a legitimate restaurant, to eat dinner. Let's go back to Tuesday night, and I'll try to explain how this 'Spy' thing happened:

I walked past and saw the place; nicely decorated if one could try to ignore the carpark location, and the proprietor, a bloke, calls out hello, so I stopped back after finishing the walk, checked the prices of a beer, sat down at the bar and had one. The cook, (who looks a few years older than I by the way) came over and the conversation ensued among three or four of us. All good talk about the business, the music on the stereo, positive sort of stuff.

The bar stools were rather short and the bar relatively high, so I adjourned to a table to rest the elbows a little, and she came and sat down. Fair enough to simply ask someone if they'd like a drink in the midst of a conversation, isn't it? She ordered a Spy so fair enough. It was after dinner time and no customers to cook for, so no probs.

My decision to return the next night for a feed was due to faith in the restaurant, not the cook, not in anyway more than would the food be edible? The same as if I went to KFC for a burger. Buying a drink for a male or female musician or kitchenhand or counter assistant or taxi driver or whatever their current job might be is not marriage proposal.

You're right about the local mindset, although it's different here than back in the village 20km up the road. I'm looking forward to trying somewhere a little less CBD tonight and hope to have a good report on a decent restaurant tomorrow morning, where they let the customers dine alone by default.

So, to stay with the KFC analogy... would you buy a drink for the girl behind the counter at KFC ? if she started chatting with you ? or showed an interest..

Totster

[Jingthing]

I would have asked for a detailed explanation of the bill against the viewing of a menu, including the items you paid for your guest. When people act the patsy as you did, it just makes them more eager to try it on on the next one ...

Edited January 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[SeanMoran]

So, to stay with the KFC analogy... would you buy a drink for the girl behind the counter at KFC ? if she started chatting with you ? or showed an interest..

Totster

Of course I would, if someone was sitting at the same table and I had a drink and they didn't. In fact yesterday, KFC brought over a free drink for me simply because I hadn't ordered one with my chicken-burger.

Common manners shouldn't be too hard to grasp, but this is Thailand, so maybe I'm expecting too much, but anyway now I'm off to the Camel Pub to put the grumpy old man act into play as suggested here and see if I can find a way to sit outside where humanity prevails over the anti-tobacco lobby, buy a simple bottle of beer or two, have a frigging meal and NOT have to put up with the problem of interspersers interlopers ruining my evening!

Wish me luck and I shall report back in a couple of hours, hopefully by around 20:00.

---o0o---

Edit: wrong choice of word, yet again.

Edited January 14, 2010 by SeanMoran

[NADTATIDA1]

I'm not sure I understand your KFC analogy? It would be the same as if you walked into KFC and asked the girl behind the counter if she wanted to have a sit down, a chicken wing and coke with you.... which in my book would mean "Yes you are after women".

Old foreign guy buying Spys for a waitress in Thailand is not considered "common decency". You need to be more aware of the local mindset if you plan to be here long.

The KFC analogy is an attempt to explain to you that I was looking for a legitimate restaurant, to eat dinner. Let's go back to Tuesday night, and I'll try to explain how this 'Spy' thing happened:

I walked past and saw the place; nicely decorated if one could try to ignore the carpark location, and the proprietor, a bloke, calls out hello, so I stopped back after finishing the walk, checked the prices of a beer, sat down at the bar and had one. The cook, (who looks a few years older than I by the way) came over and the conversation ensued among three or four of us. All good talk about the business, the music on the stereo, positive sort of stuff.

The bar stools were rather short and the bar relatively high, so I adjourned to a table to rest the elbows a little, and she came and sat down. Fair enough to simply ask someone if they'd like a drink in the midst of a conversation, isn't it? She ordered a Spy so fair enough. It was after dinner time and no customers to cook for, so no probs.

My decision to return the next night for a feed was due to faith in the restaurant, not the cook, not in anyway more than would the food be edible? The same as if I went to KFC for a burger. Buying a drink for a male or female musician or kitchenhand or counter assistant or taxi driver or whatever their current job might be is not marriage proposal.

You're right about the local mindset, although it's different here than back in the village 20km up the road. I'm looking forward to trying somewhere a little less CBD tonight and hope to have a good report on a decent restaurant tomorrow morning, where they let the customers dine alone by default.

So, to stay with the KFC analogy... would you buy a drink for the girl behind the counter at KFC ? if she started chatting with you ? or showed an interest..

Totster

He could always as her if she would like to go large!

[hhgz]

"You made a 'date' with the cook. When she sat at your table, prearranged by you, you were agreeing to pay for her food and drinks as well as yours."

Exactly, so where is the "scam" the OP is whining about? There was no scam - another attempt of a bored farang trying to elicit sympathy.

[SeanMoran]

He could always as her if she would like to go large!

We don't need no extra supa-size 'roun' here, but excellent take on the KFC analogy.

---o0o---

The Camel Pub was a delight tonight, and my friend and part-time pasa-Thai teacher who is apparently employed there sat down and forgave me for leaving her with the bill for her sister's party on Monday night too, so that was the main concern of mine.

In general though, there was only one of Monday's hangers on (different pub/restaurant to this thread's origin but much the same problem) who's aura was actually apologetic tonight which surprised me after the arrogant behaviour I'd come to expect of her in the past, and I reckon that at least at that venue, it's been accepted that I'm happy to return there and spend a little money on a beer or a daily special, and buy a drink and tom yung goong for someone I know and enjoy the company of, but it's not open season on the farang, for it's bad business sense.

Tomorrow, I might try this manoeuvre at the little restaurant that I started the thread for. GOMA (Grumpy Old Man Act) is a great start to a good evening to avoid getting ripped off, but I found out tonight that I can't keep it up for more than around ten minutes, because I'm not old, not all that grumpy, and I can't act because that other 25% leads me to drink copious quantities of beer in the macho sort of style I was born with. In vinos veritos.

---o0o---

PS: Good advice from Mig and JT too. Thanks and I fully intend to casually bring this matter up tomorrow afternoon or over the weekend with the fellow that I saw as a friendly and decent bloke on Tuesday night, with a look in his eyes that told me he was no conman. It was just that last night, was away in Amphur Rayong for the evening, and there's no point in arguing with a couple of women over a bill, (the only two staff there to run the place last night) because they'll use female logic to support their miscalculations until intimidation sets in, and I'd never intimidate a lady over a couple of hundred baht.

I'll talk to the man who might understand over the next few days, and maybe just put last night behind us and all be friends again, but questioning the manageress over the bill when there wasn't another bloke around to hear my logic would have been fueling the fire.

Edited January 14, 2010 by SeanMoran

[SeanMoran]

are these thai you roll with so poor that they have to team up to scam you of such few baht?

One AUD buys 30 THB tonight. It might depend on your definition of poor, but remember that poor is an adjective that can go quite a bit further than hip-pocket nerve.

Scam ?? That word is overused on this forum. I would suggest 'misunderstanding' would be a better description.

Totster

I've long considered it a hollywoodizm myself too, but I don't run this circus, so just trying to fit in with the crowd, and it was fully intentional on the part of BOTH staffmembers last night, ergo much more than just an innocent misunderstanding.

I'll sort it out over the next few days, and no problems after that, but they certainly DID take advantage of a new customer last night, and might be wise to start out with the GOMA method for anyone who wants to try a new restaurant alone in Thailand. If the cook wants to come and sit at your table, up to them, but THEY get the check bin if they wanna sit and talk to me from now on. I'll just tell them straight out, that if they take up space at my table, they pay or I'm gone.

Edited January 14, 2010 by SeanMoran

[khundon]

So you say you got ripped off, then you gave her a Baht30 tip. <deleted>!!!

Darwins theory, will prove true with this poster I think.

[SeanMoran]

So you say you got ripped off, then you gave her a Baht30 tip. <deleted>!!!

Darwins theory, will prove true with this poster I think.

Fifty baht actually. The motive being to appear satisfied and ignorant of the scam, so as to maintain greng jai for all participants and revenge/served cold and all that.

[KwanDean]

'but when they are overly friendly, watch out!'

Does that include marriage ??

[TAWP]

the TWPA (Thirsty Women in Poverty Association)

Wow, I gotta remember that one.

[SeanMoran]

the TWPA (Thirsty Women in Poverty Association)

Wow, I gotta remember that one.

Actually, the thought did cross my mind, "I hope TAWP doesn't get offended..." so please excuse the similar lettering, and any alternatively derived anagrams would be acceptible.

[Tinkelbell]

Similar experience happened to me ( a Thai) living at that time in NY about 13 years ago.

Brought a Thai cousin's family ( who were visiting me from Michigan) to a Thai restaurant in NYC.

This restaurant served lunch buffet at $8.95 per person. Seven of us were seated by the cashier boot. The owner must be heard us talking in Thai, she came over and started being friendly, I told her that my cousin's family were our out- of- town guests. She asked us how the tomyum goong ( seeing 4 of us left more than half in a little soup cups ) we told her the soup tasted too bland for our taste, of course, we didn't expect her to alter the soup to suit Thais, after all her business aims at most non-Thais.

The owner went to the back room ( I assumed it was the kitchen), came back with a small bowl of tomyum goong, passing the bowl to everyone at our table to try, we all agree this time it tasted better.

Next thing we knew the waitress brought 4 new cups of (now improved ) tomyum goong to replace the ones we picked from the buffet table.

Surprised to see the bill was $122+.

According to my calculation, the bill shouldn't even close to $100

Took the tab to the cashier/owner and asked them one item at a time, turned out the owner put extra charged on tomyum goong (the ones the waitress brought from the kitchen) at $6.95 each.

Because we were entertaining the guests, didn't want to make a scene. Just paid the bill( service charge included) and left.

I know in the US, you don't have to pay the things that you DID NOT order. Restaurants in the US have this believe.....'Customers always right'.

So you see Thais scams Thais too at any opportunity that rises.

[glegolo]

(/quote)

Fifty baht actually. The motive being to appear satisfied and ignorant of the scam, so as to maintain

greng jai for all participants and revenge/served cold and all that.

-------------------------

Hmmm... The motive being.. what????? so you can let them believe that this scam was a good one and

stupid falang didn´t see it coming and just accepted.

I must say. And I do not want to be too extremely nasty. But you are a danger for us all down here in Thailand.

You should of course have reacted and told them that the price was badly calculated and just give them what

they supposed to have in the first place.

You only make it even more difficult for the rest of us. Then you leave Thailand and go home. And we have to

live the "dream" you just left.

No thank you to that...

Glegolo

[SeanMoran]

Hmmm... The motive being.. what????? so you can let them believe that this scam was a good one and stupid falang didn´t see it coming and just accepted.

I must say. And I do not want to be too extremely nasty. But you are a danger for us all down here in Thailand. You should of course have reacted and told them that the price was badly calculated and just give them what they supposed to have in the first place.

You only make it even more difficult for the rest of us. Then you leave Thailand and go home. And we have to live the "dream" you just left.

No thank you to that...

Glegolo

Thank you for your advice.

[Loz]

FUnny,

reminds me of when I went for a meal with some canadian friends at a place I freqented often. THe bill was very high but not wanting to make a scene I paid it. They were muttering (my guests) cos they were shocked and in the end wanted to check (cos they planned to give me half back it turned out) and on closer inspection, they had doubled our bill!!! how had they done this? easy, gave us a bill of a much busier table. (who had already paid AND left!)

cheeky twunts!

another time I was a guest at another restaurant and ordered carefully from the menu when the inflated bill arrived I got the menu out and pointed out what I had and the different prices between the bill and the menu. NOW THIS WAS THE CLASSIC BEST RESPONSE EVER!!!

"Oh, we have put the prices up recently but not updated the menu yet... "

Needless to say we were refunded the "new" price difference.

[Jingthing]

NOW THIS WAS THE CLASSIC BEST RESPONSE EVER!!!

"Oh, we have put the prices up recently but not updated the menu yet... "

Classic and common. The other one is that they will claim you ordered big size even when there is no such option on the menu. It has happened to me a number of times here over the years. BTW, you can fight this. Just demand to get the menu and pay the amount on the menu. What are they going to do, call the police? Show them the menu. (They won't call the police.) There are of course exceptions where you can't complain. If you feel they will get violent or cases of legitimate ambiguity such as market priced seafood, etc. The big size thing is harder to complain about even if you didn't order it if the portion actually did appear big size, but sometimes they will pull that even when there was no big size portion served. Of course, not to even mention the two menu places ...

BTW, in my experience if you demand to see the menu again, and you are right about the price on the menu, you will usually win. Maybe most people are too "polite" to even do that. I have never had a place refuse to show me the menu again.

I reckon if you don't call them on these scams, they just think you are stupid and they are clever. If you afraid Thais will think you are cheap for calling out scams, be my guest, but I think quite often they think you are clever or at least not stupid for doing so.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Jingthing

[SeanMoran]

FUnny,

reminds me of when I went for a meal with some canadian friends at a place I freqented often. THe bill was very high but not wanting to make a scene I paid it. They were muttering (my guests) cos they were shocked and in the end wanted to check (cos they planned to give me half back it turned out) and on closer inspection, they had doubled our bill!!! how had they done this? easy, gave us a bill of a much busier table. (who had already paid AND left!)

cheeky twunts!

another time I was a guest at another restaurant and ordered carefully from the menu when the inflated bill arrived I got the menu out and pointed out what I had and the different prices between the bill and the menu. NOW THIS WAS THE CLASSIC BEST RESPONSE EVER!!!

"Oh, we have put the prices up recently but not updated the menu yet... "

Needless to say we were refunded the "new" price difference.

It's almost worth the extra when they provide such a good comedy act as well as the meal. That's a ripper! It might explain why some kids do their maths homework and grow up to be rocket scientists, and other kids work in restaurants.

[Totster]

Hmmm... The motive being.. what????? so you can let them believe that this scam was a good one and

stupid falang didn´t see it coming and just accepted.

I must say. And I do not want to be too extremely nasty. But you are a danger for us all down here in Thailand.

You should of course have reacted and told them that the price was badly calculated and just give them what

they supposed to have in the first place.

You only make it even more difficult for the rest of us. Then you leave Thailand and go home. And we have to

live the "dream" you just left.

No thank you to that...

Yes..YES !! This is exactly what we need. A huge farang shouting, screaming, demanding, getting red in the face and generally throwing their overweight around.

That will definitely make things better for us here. Well Done !

Consider this story well, to me there was a misunderstanding, and to handle this in the wrong way could have made things worse (embarrassment/face whatever you call it). Doing things the right way here are not always the way you are used to doing it wherever you come from.

Totster

[glegolo]

Hmmm... The motive being.. what????? so you can let them believe that this scam was a good one and

stupid falang didn´t see it coming and just accepted.

I must say. And I do not want to be too extremely nasty. But you are a danger for us all down here in Thailand.

You should of course have reacted and told them that the price was badly calculated and just give them what

they supposed to have in the first place.

You only make it even more difficult for the rest of us. Then you leave Thailand and go home. And we have to

live the "dream" you just left.

No thank you to that...

Yes..YES !! This is exactly what we need. A huge farang shouting, screaming, demanding, getting red in the face and generally throwing their overweight around.

That will definitely make things better for us here. Well Done !

Consider this story well, to me there was a misunderstanding, and to handle this in the wrong way could have made things worse (embarrassment/face whatever you call it). Doing things the right way here are not always the way you are used to doing it wherever you come from.

Totster

--------------------------------------

You do not have to take it to extrem. But being fuc_ked around here in Thailand 24/7 is not a good thing. For a Thai silence is weakness (in some cases). And also gives them OK to fuc_k around whoever next falang comes around.

if you are accepting that it is your thing here in life, I am not accepting that. But there is alternatives to shouting, screaming, getting red in the face and throwing overweight around. We can talk to oneanother, look it up, it is a good way of dealing with stuff down here.

Glegolo

[Totster]

You do not have to take it to extrem. But being fuc_ked around here in Thailand 24/7 is not a good thing. For a Thai silence is weakness (in some cases). And also gives them OK to fuc_k around whoever next falang comes around.

if you are accepting that it is your thing here in life, I am not accepting that. But there is alternatives to shouting, screaming, getting red in the face and throwing overweight around. We can talk to oneanother, look it up, it is a good way of dealing with stuff down here.

Glegolo

Well, I certainly hope you don't react in that way when you "talk to oneanother". Swearing and getting worked up does not solve things. Something for you to work on maybe ?

The OP handled the situation in the best way IMO. I hope you have read the whole topic, because I think you may have missed some of the things that happened.

Anyway, calm down and have a nice afternoon, because after all, you are 'living the dream'

totster

[SeanMoran]

You do not have to take it to extrem. But being fuc_ked around here in Thailand 24/7 is not a good thing. For a Thai silence is weakness (in some cases). And also gives them OK to fuc_k around whoever next falang comes around.

if you are accepting that it is your thing here in life, I am not accepting that. But there is alternatives to shouting, screaming, getting red in the face and throwing overweight around. We can talk to oneanother, look it up, it is a good way of dealing with stuff down here.

Glegolo

Well, I certainly hope you don't react in that way when you "talk to oneanother". Swearing and getting worked up does not solve things. Something for you to work on maybe ?

The OP handled the situation in the best way IMO. I hope you have read the whole topic, because I think you may have missed some of the things that happened.

Anyway, calm down and have a nice afternoon, because after all, you are 'living the dream'

totster

I will be dropping by there for a quick beer at the bar at time when I see the big boss present, and I noticed he seemed happy to converse in English as well as Thai, and I guessed from the first introduction that he and I were on the same wavelength and could probably be friends.

That will be the right time to explain him personally why I haven't been back there in a week, and maybe smoothly and quietly avoid a repeat of the 'misunderstanding' that happened last Wednesday when he wasn't there to do the mathematics. If I get 'assertive' about it, it puts him in the dire situation of having to choose between a two-night customer and his own staff (one of whom I get the impression might be his wife).

Give it time and I'll get the chance to mention something quietly about the small 'misunderstanding' with the overzealous cook/nokia operator/would-be bargirl, no harm done, partly my own fault for failure to be grumpy, and we can all get back to the dreaming once more, and maybe they can show a greater profit over the month if they just let me go there to dine alone three or four nights a week, and ABIDE BY THE PRICES ON THE MENU.

[glegolo]

You do not have to take it to extrem. But being fuc_ked around here in Thailand 24/7 is not a good thing. For a Thai silence is weakness (in some cases). And also gives them OK to fuc_k around whoever next falang comes around.

if you are accepting that it is your thing here in life, I am not accepting that. But there is alternatives to shouting, screaming, getting red in the face and throwing overweight around. We can talk to oneanother, look it up, it is a good way of dealing with stuff down here.

Glegolo

Well, I certainly hope you don't react in that way when you "talk to oneanother". Swearing and getting worked up does not solve things. Something for you to work on maybe ?

The OP handled the situation in the best way IMO. I hope you have read the whole topic, because I think you may have missed some of the things that happened.

Anyway, calm down and have a nice afternoon, because after all, you are 'living the dream'

totster

--------------------------------

Thank you totster, same to you. I am calm, was calm all the time. You suggest that I should work on something??? Maybe you should read my post again. Because you did misread it. I wrote that there are alternatives to your suggestion of shouting etc.. and that was talking!!!!

So, no harm done my friend

Good afternoon

Glegolo

[SeanMoran]

--------------------------------

Thank you totster, same to you. I am calm, was calm all the time. You suggest that I should work on something??? Maybe you should read my post again. Because you did misread it. I wrote that there are alternatives to your suggestion of shouting etc.. and that was talking!!!!

So, no harm done my friend

Good afternoon

Glegolo

Okay then, I will reread your post.

Hmmm... The motive being.. what????? so you can let them believe that this scam was a good one and

stupid falang didn´t see it coming and just accepted.

I must say. And I do not want to be too extremely nasty. But you are a danger for us all down here in Thailand. <THAILAND IS NORTHERN HEMISPHERE>

You should of course have reacted and told them that the price was badly calculated and just give them what

they supposed to have in the first place.

You only make it even more difficult for the rest of us. Then you leave Thailand and go home. And we have to

live the "dream" you just left.

No thank you to that...

You should never begin sentences with and nor but, but apart from that, no harm done my friend.

[MrHammer]

You should at least have insisted on some after dinner play. At least a shoulder and head massage as well. Maybe also foot massage.

[SeanMoran]

You should at least have insisted on some after dinner play. At least a shoulder and head massage as well. Maybe also foot massage.

Coulda-shoulda orright, and there was certainly more fun to be had than I did that night, but then again, I might not have survived, and then who would have been here on the little laptop to write up the thread, eh?

[glegolo]

--------------------------------

Thank you totster, same to you. I am calm, was calm all the time. You suggest that I should work on something??? Maybe you should read my post again. Because you did misread it. I wrote that there are alternatives to your suggestion of shouting etc.. and that was talking!!!!

So, no harm done my friend

Good afternoon

Glegolo

Okay then, I will reread your post.

Hmmm... The motive being.. what????? so you can let them believe that this scam was a good one and

stupid falang didn´t see it coming and just accepted.

I must say. And I do not want to be too extremely nasty. But you are a danger for us all down here in Thailand. <THAILAND IS NORTHERN HEMISPHERE>

You should of course have reacted and told them that the price was badly calculated and just give them what

they supposed to have in the first place.

You only make it even more difficult for the rest of us. Then you leave Thailand and go home. And we have to

live the "dream" you just left.

No thank you to that...

You should never begin sentences with and nor but, but apart from that, no harm done my friend.

-------------------------------------

I am swedish, so I am grateful for the lesson.

Thanks, didn´t know that!!

Glegolo

[FM505]

Yaaawwwnn....

[clinique]

Ever heard of "familiarity breeds contempt"....

Thai is a "class " society...... dont buy drinks/anything for the help..