Thaksin A Man Of Dwindling Means

[webfact]

EXCLUSIVE

A man of dwindling means

By Thanong Khanthong

The Nation

Published on January 15, 2010

Sources say ex-PM Thaksin now has difficulty servicing debt to Gazprombank

Just how much money does Thaksin Shinawatra have now? Well-informed sources say the former prime minister might not have a lot left.

One source even speculated that his net worth could already have turned negative if his Bt76 billion now being frozen in Thailand is not taken into account.

In a recent interview with Times Online, Thaksin said he still had US$100 million (Bt3.3 billion) as his total net worth, trying to create an impression that he does not have any financial problems.

But sources say Thaksin is now having a difficult time servicing his debt owed to Gazprombank, a subsidiary of Gazprom of Russia. The Russian state owns more than 50 per cent in Gazprom, the energy firm that has branched out to become a global conglomerate.

Thaksin would like to rely on his connection with Gazprom to launch his investment in the energy sector in other countries, where he hopes to improve his political conditions. His interest in the oil and gas business in Cambodia is already widely known.

The exact amount of the loan he took from Gazprombank is not known, but it could be in the region of $1.5 billion, the sources believe.

Thaksin has used this loan to invest in Dubai in order to establish his status there as an honorary political refugee. Following the meltdown of Dubai, however, Thaksin has suffered heavy losses from his Dubai investment.

He also lost a huge amount of money from his portfolio investment in the aftermath of the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008.

Dubai World, a state-owned corporation, is seeking a delay of repayment of its debt amounting to $59 billion.

The sources say Thaksin's debt owed to Gazprombank is already overdue.

Thaksin needs big money to finance his lavish lifestyle and security protection.

One government source said Thaksin is on an aircraft three days a week, constantly changing his location to ensure personal safety.

The ex-premier has faced another big financial blow. The UK authorities have recently seized some $4 billion believed to belong to Thaksin under nominees' names, the sources said.

This amount was frozen in 2008, pending the beneficial owner(s) coming forward to declare ownership. But since nobody had come forward, the UK authorities quietly seized the amount for the state coffers.

If Thaksin were to lose Bt76 billion in his Thai assets-seizure case, his net worth could turn negative.

On February 26, the Supreme Court will rule whether he is guilty of corruption. If the court were to find him guilty, it would order the seizure of the entire Bt76 billion.

Thaksin is now fighting back fiercely. He will try to lobby the Supreme Court, bring down the Abhisit Vejjajiva government and ignite the red-shirt rallies in order to instigate a military intervention.

-- The Nation 2010-01-15

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[animatic]

Looks like Thaksin was a 'plunger' in the markets, if he went down with Lehman Bros,

it would be because he was heavily invested in dodgey derivitives or other debt profiting instruments.

Likely invested for fast, big profits at higher risk, vs long term out look.

Not exactly a Warren Buffet style for sure.

[givenall]

LET'S MAKE A DEAL

It is time for Mr. T see the light and come become more consolatory and make a deal with the Thai government. But if i was the Thai Government I would demand he spend some time in the Jail

[Davidusaf99]

My heart truly bleeds for the financial plight of Mr. Thaksin. Maybe Cambodia will offer him some nice lucrative contracts so he can steal from another country's citizens for a change.

[Jingthing]

What do the backers of Thaksin who respect him because he is such a crafty businessman say now? This is good and bad news, Thaksin getting poorer. The good part, he is getting poorer which to a man like him and his followers of course means he is getting politically weaker. The bad part, his desperation to grab back power (and "his" frozen assets) by any means necessary (including of course violence) is obviously more intense than ever. So he is more dangerous than ever.

[Davidusaf99]

I think that the comment in the Nation today, about Barham and Newin being the players to watch, is the most apt. I would imagine they would judge that it is to their benefit to stay the course with the democrats, as the other side appears more desperate than anything else.

[webfact]

I think that the comment in the Nation today, about Barham and Newin being the players to watch, is the most apt. I would imagine they would judge that it is to their benefit to stay the course with the democrats, as the other side appears more desperate than anything else.

we have the comment running on Thaivisa:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Abhisit-s-Po...ai-t330009.html

[geriatrickid]

The Nation's columnist seems to have access Mr. Thaksin's investment details and knowledge of his investment decisions.

Now I don't know about you folks, but I cannot see Mr. Thaksin providing his confidential investment details to someone from the Nation. Would any of you provide your bank balances to a small circulation newspaper? This then causes me to wonder how this information was sourced.

Did the nation's writer;

- Invent this information and use personal estimates?

- If the information is accurate, obtain the information in a manner that violated Mr. Thaksin's legal right of confidentiality? I do believe that publishing people's bank balances and investment protfolios, which have not been made public, nor have been stated in open court nor in a securities filing, is a breach of privacy.

Delicate question for some of you folks to wrestle with.

What's next, bringing back that banned weird guy to photoshop some image of Mr. Thaksin?

[animatic]

I am sure there were many securities filings from the collapse of Lehman Brothers company.

A good financial reporter looking for something specific would know where to look.

[jayboy]

I am sure there were many securities filings from the collapse of Lehman Brothers company.

A good financial reporter looking for something specific would know where to look.

Good point especially as we know The Nation has several high calibre financial reporters famous for their immense knowledge, analytical ability and moral courage in standing up to pressure.

[Thaihog]

If you look up Thaksin in Wikipedia you will see that he was not a successful businessman in his early career. It was not until got a telecommunications monopoly thanks to his wife's contacts that he actually started to make money. If you have a monopoly it's pretty difficult not to make money, lol...

Edited January 15, 2010 by Thaihog

[Thai at Heart]

I am sure there were many securities filings from the collapse of Lehman Brothers company.

A good financial reporter looking for something specific would know where to look.

Good point especially as we know The Nation has several high calibre financial reporters famous for their immense knowledge, analytical ability and moral courage in standing up to pressure.

Much in the same way that people stating that Thaksin has had his assets frozen and seized in the UK.

It would presumably be a matter of public record, however, googling it reveals absolutely nothing. I know that big brother is encroaching on British life, but one would presume that it would be in there somewhere.

I really don't believe any word about this kind of issue from the Nation, and I would imagine that there would be more than one investigative journalist trying to unravel this story.

The exact amount of the loan he took from Gazprombank is not known, but it could be in the region of $1.5 billion, the sources believe.

Ironically, the sources don't even "know", they believe. This type of completely unsubstantiated or uncorroborated "news" should be taken with an enourmous pinch of salt. I mean, they could even have bothered to call Gazprom.

[h90]

LET'S MAKE A DEAL

It is time for Mr. T see the light and come become more consolatory and make a deal with the Thai government. But if i was the Thai Government I would demand he spend some time in the Jail

He broke already the deal with Surayud. No as the government is wining they don't have a reason to make a deal with him.

[Samuian]

I woulnd't like to owe 1.5 Bill. to Gazprom and default on it...if it isn't already, it might become very uncomfortable life in the close future!

Edited January 15, 2010 by Samuian

[slapout]

The 4 billion frozen and seized by the UK sounds like a done deal. If so, records of deposits/amounts/history of accounts activity/etc, are probably a matter of record which a knowledgeable UK barrister may have had access to. The procedure and conditions for seizing funds on deposit, within certain countries are in most cases aimed at monies received/transferred as a result of very suspicious activity. For the beneficiaries of this amount of money to decline to even contest the legal procedure speaks volumes about its (money) origin. Certainly, the methods being employed in Thailand for return of deputed funds, property, etc would not work in the UK or any other responsible government of the world that I am aware of. In fact, the non response in the UK would seem to be an admission of guilt to charges of illegal gains charges which have been put forward here in Thailand. Just my humble observation of the limited information picked up via newspapers, internet, etc.

[Crushdepth]

I'm sure he has a few squillion hidden away somewhere. He'll never be short of a buck, even if he ends up "bankrupt".

[Thai at Heart]

The 4 billion frozen and seized by the UK sounds like a done deal. If so, records of deposits/amounts/history of accounts activity/etc, are probably a matter of record which a knowledgeable UK barrister may have had access to. The procedure and conditions for seizing funds on deposit, within certain countries are in most cases aimed at monies received/transferred as a result of very suspicious activity. For the beneficiaries of this amount of money to decline to even contest the legal procedure speaks volumes about its (money) origin. Certainly, the methods being employed in Thailand for return of deputed funds, property, etc would not work in the UK or any other responsible government of the world that I am aware of. In fact, the non response in the UK would seem to be an admission of guilt to charges of illegal gains charges which have been put forward here in Thailand. Just my humble observation of the limited information picked up via newspapers, internet, etc.

Please provide links to this, since I can't find the story anywhere.

Googling - 'Seized Assets United Kingdom Thaksin Shinawatra" gleans absolutely nothing in connection with this story. With the controversy about him owning Man City, one would imagine that the story would make at least one newspaper in the UK.

I am not saying the story isn't possible, it is just that things like this do not happen in a vacuum in the UK.

[bunnaag]

He can borrow from his kids or the gardener.

[keyjor]

What do the backers of Thaksin who respect him because he is such a crafty businessman say now? This is good and bad news, Thaksin getting poorer. The good part, he is getting poorer which to a man like him and his followers of course means he is getting politically weaker. The bad part, his desperation to grab back power (and "his" frozen assets) by any means necessary (including of course violence) is obviously more intense than ever. So he is more dangerous than ever.

Good point. He will be back sometime soon, guaranteed.

Others mention how The Nation can say if he is skint or not, I would not give my financial status to my wife even. Well, not completely.

[Old Man River]

I am sure there were many securities filings from the collapse of Lehman Brothers company.

A good financial reporter looking for something specific would know where to look.

Good point especially as we know The Nation has several high calibre financial reporters famous for their immense knowledge, analytical ability and moral courage in standing up to pressure.

Most of what Thanong says is plausible. Thaksin was moving funds offshore for years, so losses in the recent meltdown and subsequent loans makes sense. However, I have trouble buying the USD 4 billion in seized assets in the UK. Given he bought a house there, it wouldn't be out of the question that he would have a cache of funds there as well, but only Thanong seems to know the amount and when the funds were frozen and subsequently seized.

When first reported by Thanong, he said this info was not publicly available since governments don't disclose assets being frozen. OK, but now that it has been allegedly seized from nominee accounts, given the large amount and person supposedly involved, if true this info would surface somewhere else than just from Thanong and until it does, I don't buy it.

[sabaijai]

If you look up Thaksin in Wikipedia you will see that he was not a successful businessman in his early career. It was not until got a telecommunications monopoly thanks to his wife's contacts that he actually started to make money. If you have a monopoly it's pretty difficult not to make money, lol...

Col Thaksin's business acumen is greatly over-rated, esp viewed on the relatively more level playing field of international business.

[scorecard]

I share the theme of most posters on this thread; there seems to be little substantiation of the details in the piece written by the Nation reporter.

On the other hand;

- I would like to think (hope) that the reporter is a profession journalist and can in reality provide some support for the various 'items' listed, and that the Nation sub-editor was satisfied that there was some level of credibility in the piece, in other words it wasn't libelous.

- None of taxsins lawyers / red shirt leaders etc., have made any comment or indicated that they would take legal action for libel or whatever.

I guess i'm like many contributors, there a certain level of curiosity about this character which stays alive, and I would like to know how much of the story is fact opposed to guess work.

[scorecard]

I share the theme of most posters on this thread; there seems to be little substantiation of the details in the piece written by the Nation reporter.

On the other hand;

- I would like to think (hope) that the reporter is a profession journalist and can in reality provide some support for the various 'items' listed, and that the Nation sub-editor was satisfied that there was some level of credibility in the piece, in other words it wasn't libelous.

- None of taxsins lawyers / red shirt leaders etc., have made any comment or indicated that they would take legal action for libel or whatever.

I guess i'm like many contributors, there a certain level of curiosity about this character which stays alive, and I would like to know how much of the story is fact opposed to guess work.

[moe666]

The old square face will return to Thailand admit his guilt ask for forgiveness from the king and retire to a monastary.

[Insight]

<snip>

I guess i'm like ny contributors, there a certain level of curiosity about this character which stays alive, and I would like to know how much of the story is fact opposed to guess work.

Two other points...

- The Nations pro-Thaksin Nemesis, Bangkok Pundit, hasn't made any attempt to rip these recent articles about Thaksin dwindling financial resources apart, despite the first one being over 24hrs old.

- The Nation may make some outrageous claims, but as far as I recall, it's never been proved that outrageously wrong (unless somebody cares to correct me)?

Given the reported relatively crap turnout of the Khao Yai camping trip, whatever-we're-legally-bound-to-call-him may be reserving whatever cash he has remaining for one final push - the one Suthep has been quick to call him for this morning.

[Old Man River]

I share the theme of most posters on this thread; there seems to be little substantiation of the details in the piece written by the Nation reporter.

On the other hand;

- I would like to think (hope) that the reporter is a profession journalist and can in reality provide some support for the various 'items' listed, and that the Nation sub-editor was satisfied that there was some level of credibility in the piece, in other words it wasn't libelous.

- None of taxsins lawyers / red shirt leaders etc., have made any comment or indicated that they would take legal action for libel or whatever.

I guess i'm like many contributors, there a certain level of curiosity about this character which stays alive, and I would like to know how much of the story is fact opposed to guess work.

Like you, I am curious, but so far this story of the USD 4 billion in England is a year old and nothing has surfaced about it and if true would be a political bombshell, not to mention the field day the taxing authorities would have with it.

If true, Thaksin's attorneys would be all over the British government on this given the alleged amount is even higher than what he stands to lose in Thailand. If made up, Thaksin's attorneys would show no interest in it, as they haven't, as he hasn't suffered any damages from this story (nobody believes it).

Edited January 15, 2010 by Old Man River

[animatic]

I share the theme of most posters on this thread; there seems to be little substantiation of the details in the piece written by the Nation reporter.

On the other hand;

- I would like to think (hope) that the reporter is a profession journalist and can in reality provide some support for the various 'items' listed, and that the Nation sub-editor was satisfied that there was some level of credibility in the piece, in other words it wasn't libelous.

- None of taxsins lawyers / red shirt leaders etc., have made any comment or indicated that they would take legal action for libel or whatever.

I guess i'm like many contributors, there a certain level of curiosity about this character which stays alive, and I would like to know how much of the story is fact opposed to guess work.

A rather telling point, Thaksin's lawyers are typically quick on the trigger to sue,

unless he doesn't want these claims further investigated.... too close to the truth perhaps?

Much of this governmental working is not typically googleable,

until it is dragged out by a member of the press or other NGO type investigator.

If, as in London, it is because it is through a series of 'beards' acting on his behalf,

then very likely the case names and info are contained UNDER THOSE NAMES.

with Thaksin being named inside, but not top cover or file name.

His profile was so high when he bought Manchester, I am sure it sent up flags to

Inland Revenue and the like to do some digging and freezing.

If the Financial Times in London or Washington didn't actually care to search this Thaksin stuff out,

then it will languish except in those journals with any interest in Thaksin's state of affairs.

Seems The Nation thought to dig on it, but no one else cares, and Thaksin doesn't refute the story.

[salty]

If he comes back he won't be able to afford buying duty free at King Power.

[Samuian]

Wasn't Al Fayed, Adnan Kashoggi on his "best mates" list?

Though the London Mansion was once owned by one of them....and besides one may just google "Thaksin's Mansion in London" and see what comes up....all "conspiracy by the Elite against him, the natural born leader"?.....

......................

....Poor Red-shirt Class Struggle While Thaksin Lives A Happy Billionaire Life Out Of The Dirty Money ... He also bought a huge luxury mansion in London suburb. .....

....................

7 Nov 2008 ... The mansion is in a huge golf course of 4 square kilometers, ... to go back to the luxurious service apartment in Central London which cost ...

......................

Thaksin, who had been living in London after he and his wife, Potjaman, ... building a 60 million yuan ($8.9 million) mansion at a golf resort near Beijing. ...

......................

After Britain has cancelled Thaksin and Potjaman Shinawatra's visas, both will not be able to go back to the luxurious service apartment in Central London which cost 1,200 pounds per week or the middle-age English two-storey, five-bedroom estate worth 4 million pounds in Weybridge, Surrey UK, which was once home to pop stars Cliff Richard and Diana Ross.

source: Google..

.....................

In an interview in the mid 2007, published in a book titled "Thaksin, Where are you?" written by Lieutenant Sunisa Lerdpakawat

Thaksin said, "I am glad that this has become a shelter for me. I believe if I am forced to stay out of Thailand more than this, China would be the best place where I would like to stay beause my ancestors were from China. Chanchai (Yian Pin) is a friend indeed. When he was in Thailand, he never asked for a help from me. We only got acquainted, talked, played golf and often had dinners together. Before the coup, I never thought that I would live in China. When I was in London, I thought I would go to Asia. The first one who telephoned to invite me is Chanchai (Yian Pin) which I had never expected. He would prepare everything so well for me. He does not only prepare for me but also arranges for my friends to visit me."

"He thought I should stay here at least 3 years. That is what he said. He prepared to build a house for me and my whole family. I feel obliged to him. I think one day I will have to return to repay his favour."

Who is Yian Pin

Yian Pin now 57, was born Chinese but got Thai nationality and a Thai name "Chanchai Ruayroongruang" with the aid of Major General Praman Adireksan in Chart Thai party. Then he started an international trade and tourist business by the name of Hua Pin group.

In 1994, Somkid Jatusripitak, Deputy PM under Thaksin and the Consultants to the PM chose Yian Pin group to be the sole agent to sell 30,000 Elite Cards which were worth of 30 billion baht (860 million USD) coupons for tourists which turned out to be a total failure with some millions USD lost by Thai to be put under the carpet without check-and-balance mechanism.

In 1995, Yian Pin went back to China and became an agent for the Red Bull drinks. He builds Hua Pin buildings in the center of Beijing. He runs fun parks and golf courses.

Yian Pin always boasted that he could dictate Thailand's policies. He always invited Thai Rak Thai directors to party at his golf courses.

Despite of the Thai nationality, in 2005, Shanghai's Accounting Office ranked Yian Pin to be the 30th of Chinese top rich because of the total assets of 3.5 billion Yuans or 500 million USD.

........

Source:

[slapout]

The 4 billion frozen and seized by the UK sounds like a done deal. If so, records of deposits/amounts/history of accounts activity/etc, are probably a matter of record which a knowledgeable UK barrister may have had access to. The procedure and conditions for seizing funds on deposit, within certain countries are in most cases aimed at monies received/transferred as a result of very suspicious activity. For the beneficiaries of this amount of money to decline to even contest the legal procedure speaks volumes about its (money) origin. Certainly, the methods being employed in Thailand for return of deputed funds, property, etc would not work in the UK or any other responsible government of the world that I am aware of. In fact, the non response in the UK would seem to be an admission of guilt to charges of illegal gains charges which have been put forward here in Thailand. Just my humble observation of the limited information picked up via newspapers, internet, etc.

Please provide links to this, since I can't find the story anywhere.

Googling - 'Seized Assets United Kingdom Thaksin Shinawatra" gleans absolutely nothing in connection with this story. With the controversy about him owning Man City, one would imagine that the story would make at least one newspaper in the UK.

I am not saying the story isn't possible, it is just that things like this do not happen in a vacuum in the UK.

OK, via google I found reference to Arabian Magazine article which does include an interview with Thaskin and also notes the UK freezing of monies mentioned. On another note during my search another article mentioned a assets deceleration for he and wife when he became PM for the amount of 15 billion baht. I can be skeletal of news reports but when you hear so many different reports about different sums/their location, property purchases cost/location, etc for the referenced duo, my belief in the honesty and self proclaimed legal innocence of either one is shaken. Reference 8.5 on appropriate scale.