Red-Shirts Want Military To Admit To Coup Plans

[webfact]

PRO-THAKSIN GROUP

Reds want military to admit to coup plans

By The Nation

Published on January 25, 2010

The red shirts are set to demand that military chiefs confess whether they plan to stage a coup.

The move is seen as a ploy to rally the opposition movement in the wake of the protest at Khao Soi Dao in Chanthaburi over the weekend.

Rally organisers said they would confront the top brass to try to bring "secret plans" about seizing power into the open.

"Our next move is to visit First Army Region commander General Prayuth Chan-ocha and ask him whether he will stage a coup," red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan said.

Jatuporn did not clarify his erronous reference to Prayuth, who is presently the deputy Army chief Lt General Kanit Sapitak is commander of the First Army.

He said he wanted to raise awareness about the military's supposed coup plot and its failure to penalise Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva for avoiding being conscripted.

The Khao Soi Dao protest ended early yesterday after the red shirts dispersed in the morning instead of noon, as previously scheduled, after what they said was a successful move to expose the encroachment on the forest reserve.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said he heaved a sign of relief when he heard about the red-shirt ending their rally.

"The news about the dispersal of the red shirts is welcome because everyone wants things to be back to normal," he said.

With Thailand gearing up to welcome visitors arriving for the Chinese New Year, all good news would help boost tourist arrivals," he said.

Although the red shirts and their patron Thaksin Shinawatra have made it clear they want to oust the government by mid to late February, the Abhisit administration remains hopeful that parties concerned would not seek to do more damage to the country, he said.

Commenting on red-shirt figure Maj General Khattiya Sawasdipol, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjjajiva said society should not condone any attempts to evade the law or military disciplinary rules.

Khattiya had been suspended pending a hearing into alleged disciplinary violations and should not act as if he was above military regulations, the PM said, in reference to Khattiya's defiance of Army chief, General Anupong Paochinda.

He said he had no opinion about Thaksin's threat to form a government in exile if a coup was staged.

"I don't pay attention to Thaksin's take on the situation and a coup, if one happens, is directed at the government and would have nothing to do with him," he said.

Meanwhile, Khattiya said he received a police summons to give a statement to the Crime Suppression Division for their investigation into the bomb attack at the Army headquarters.

He said he would schedule to report for questioning after completing tomorrow's rally at Phitsanulok.

The Army filed a complaint about the bomb attack at Nang Lerng police station, which has jurisdiction over its headquarters, but officials did not request the police check the scene. Under the military-police procedures, the military has the capacity to treat the alleged offence as an internal matter.

-- The Nation 2010-01-25

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[tonywebster]

There was an excellent article in the Nation yesterday about exactly why the military are playing things this way, the alleged aim is for them to allow the battling to continue whilst they ride in on their white steeds to take over, telling the Thai citizens that it is clear that democracy will not work here and the only way forward and for peace would be for the military to run the country. let me see if I can find a link to it, nope can not find it in the online version.

[Samuian]

There was an excellent article in the Nation yesterday about exactly why the military are playing things this way, the alleged aim is for them to allow the battling to continue whilst they ride in on their white steeds to take over, telling the Thai citizens that it is clear that democracy will not work here and the only way forward and for peace would be for the military to run the country. let me see if I can find a link to it, nope can not find it in the online version.

Well, then a pdf scan will do - if you got the printed version!

besides look up what "alleged" actually means.... is to be taken with a pinch of....?

[givenall]

This totally ridicules. If the Red don’t get what they want they will manufacture it and may be it happens. They are finished and just have to realize it. Sooner better for them than later

[tonywebster]

There was an excellent article in the Nation yesterday about exactly why the military are playing things this way, the alleged aim is for them to allow the battling to continue whilst they ride in on their white steeds to take over, telling the Thai citizens that it is clear that democracy will not work here and the only way forward and for peace would be for the military to run the country. let me see if I can find a link to it, nope can not find it in the online version.

Well, then a pdf scan will do - if you got the printed version!

besides look up what "alleged" actually means.... is to be taken with a pinch of....?

the paper is at home and I am at the office, I used the word 'alleged' as like I said it is an article and not a news story, it is the opinion of a columnist. I am merely the messenger about what was written, it was written by a Thai and takes neither side in the matter, it points out the 3 things that could happen with Thaksins money and the expected responses to all 3, and goes on to mention the military's role in these matters and the best outcome for them, and basically warns people that military rule would be bad for the country and to try and resolve the current issues without the army getting involved (any more than they obviously are).

Read it if you spot a copy

p.s. I am fully aware of what 'alleged' means but thanks for the attempt at patronising, read what I wrote first before trying to start little battles, there's a good boy

Edited January 25, 2010 by tonywebster

[animatic]

The military made it pretty clear they did not enjoy running the country

while they had the chance last time. No reason they should want to again.

They were just happy to have Thaklsin and his plunderers gone.

It's just such habit to think the army should want back in government here,

that it is always part of any calculation.

Edited January 25, 2010 by animatic

[jayboy]

I should bring the temperature down.We know that dishonesty cannot be extinguished and it's possibly unrealistic to argue with the kind of people who still maintain the PAD had no undemocratic or racist elements in its leadership and followers.I would argue the PAD movement was underpinned by these elements, compounded by the threat of violence.I would however be guilty of the same fault if I didn't recognise upfront the idealism and decency of many PAD followers who were revolted by Thaksin's corruption and meglomania.But the fact remains that the PAD leadership in paricular was profoundly undemocratic in its instincts.

The final paragraph of the Pasuk/Baker article "Fighting over Democracy" I think gives a fair and unbiased - though rather bleak - summary.

"At one level Thailand’s conflict seems a relatively straightforward matter of class and privilege. On one side is a minority urban middle class that is frightened by the “tyranny of the majority” and that clings onto the established power of monarchy and army. On the other is a provincial and largely rural mass that has recently learnt how to use electoral democracy to over­ come state neglect. But at another level, the conflict is more complex. Politicians repre­senting the provincial mass have reaped the gains that accrue to political influence in the absence of a strong judiciary and other checks and balances. Thaksin is an unlikely and unfortunate figure to become the heroic defender of democracy since he does not believe in it, he has manipulated it to make billions, and he overrode liberal democratic principles during his time in power. PAD argues that ethics are more important than the principle of one ­person/ one­vote, and many liberal democratic activists support PAD on those grounds.

The political crisis in Thailand has lulled but is far from over. Ultimately this conflict is about resolving the increased social and political complexities that arise with prosperity and globalisation. In the pessimistic view, PAD’s crude ideas and crude use of violence are an ominous sign for the future of democracy. In the opti­mistic view, the current conflict is explod­ing the old myth of a society unified under the monarchy, ushering in the possibility of a stronger democracy based on open debate and open competition."

[Samuian]

I should bring the temperature down.We know that dishonesty cannot be extinguished and it's possibly unrealistic to argue with the kind of people who still maintain the PAD had no undemocratic or racist elements in its leadership and followers.I would argue the PAD movement was underpinned by these elements, compounded by the threat of violence.I would however be guilty of the same fault if I didn't recognise upfront the idealism and decency of many PAD followers who were revolted by Thaksin's corruption and meglomania.But the fact remains that the PAD leadership in paricular was profoundly undemocratic in its instincts.

The final paragraph of the Pasuk/Baker article "Fighting over Democracy" I think gives a fair and unbiased - though rather bleak - summary.

"At one level Thailand’s conflict seems a relatively straightforward matter of class and privilege. On one side is a minority urban middle class that is frightened by the “tyranny of the majority” and that clings onto the established power of monarchy and army. On the other is a provincial and largely rural mass that has recently learnt how to use electoral democracy to over­ come state neglect. But at another level, the conflict is more complex. Politicians repre­senting the provincial mass have reaped the gains that accrue to political influence in the absence of a strong judiciary and other checks and balances. Thaksin is an unlikely and unfortunate figure to become the heroic defender of democracy since he does not believe in it, he has manipulated it to make billions, and he overrode liberal democratic principles during his time in power. PAD argues that ethics are more important than the principle of one ­person/ one­vote, and many liberal democratic activists support PAD on those grounds.

The political crisis in Thailand has lulled but is far from over. Ultimately this conflict is about resolving the increased social and political complexities that arise with prosperity and globalisation. In the pessimistic view, PAD’s crude ideas and crude use of violence are an ominous sign for the future of democracy. In the opti­mistic view, the current conflict is explod­ing the old myth of a society unified under the monarchy, ushering in the possibility of a stronger democracy based on open debate and open competition."

"Living in the past"?

PAD, PAD, PAD, PAD.... almost obsolete, forming a political party, haven't heard or seen much oft hem lately - it's the red shirts, the UDD who are rattling the swords, who are shaking the foundations of this country,

who are trying to talk a division into being, who aim to divide the country in to pro Thaksin and those who don;t wish to howl with the pack!

Can anyone imagine if this crowd get's it their way, then there will be "genuine democrazy one can eat!"?

They decide who is "one" and most of them will be very hungry, from all this campaigning, then the country will be divided into shares.... of the Thailand Inc. who wanted to be the chairman?

[LomSak27]

Thanks for the post Jayboy

[hammered]

Its all about trying to build a momentum which right now isnt there, and to be honest gets undermined by some of the more outrageious actions and claims of those linked to the red side. Like the PAD before those idealists on the red side are heavily let down by their leadership. Infact until political organizations in Thailand become genuinely influenced, formed and led from the bottom up, they will continue to be bodies for use by the various elites whether they be traditonal town based, traditional rural based, newer town based or newer rural based in some combination or other.

Fighting for respected elections and fighting for strong checks and balances that can deal with even the most powerful government, business, police or military characters are not mutually exclusive ideals. It is the leaderships of the respective sides that have their own agendas of power and control that coerce peopel to believe they are mutually exclusive and to thereby undermine any move to a balanced democracy, which of courser is the last thing the elite groups on either side really want. The real battle is not the colour coordinated one but the battle to reduce the power and influence of those who lead both sides and that has not even begun.

[jayboy]

"Living in the past"?

PAD, PAD, PAD, PAD.... almost obsolete, forming a political party, haven't heard or seen much oft hem lately - it's the red shirts, the UDD who are rattling the swords, who are shaking the foundations of this country,

I wouldn't write off PAD quite yet but you are quite right.They have apparently been deserted by most of their powerful backers and by forming a political party they seem doomed for a marginal existence.I would have thought they would have been better off as a influential pressure group.

Actually I don't care that much for Red mobs either, though I sympathise with the broader democratic aims of the movement.Once Thailand is a fairer and less deferential society more reasonable leaders will emerge, and they won't include the likes of Thaksin or the PAD leadership.Personally I still have some faith in Abhisit/Korn etc but recognise disappointment is possible.

[animatic]

...people who still maintain the PAD had no undemocratic or racist elements in its leadership and followers...

Well finally you state they only had undemocratic and racist elements in PAD.

As with ANY group there are alway fringe elements off the main stream.

This is an improvement over the blanket PAD is racist and undemocratic statements

that you have peppered us with for so long. Again you never post any quotes and translations,

to these alegations, but so what ate least there is a balanced comment.

I venture thats mostly because you are quoting P and B and must add some balance yourself.

Absolutism never gets the point across.

[scorecard]

There was an excellent article in the Nation yesterday about exactly why the military are playing things this way, the alleged aim is for them to allow the battling to continue whilst they ride in on their white steeds to take over, telling the Thai citizens that it is clear that democracy will not work here and the only way forward and for peace would be for the military to run the country. let me see if I can find a link to it, nope can not find it in the online version.

So who wrote the story?

Gunna take a lot to convince there's any truth or credibility in this one.

The educated middle classes are growing in knowledge and in numbers. Does anybody really believe they would buy a line like ".....they (the military) ride in on their white steeds to take over, telling the Thai citizens that it is clear that democracy will not work here and the only way forward and for peace would be for the military to run the country. "

Further, my take is that Anupong and some surrounding him are pretty sharp and balanced people. They know very well that ultimately Thais will demand democracy and nothing less and that the military will have to eventually take up a 'posiiton' similar to the military role in most democracies.

Anupong is nothing like Suchinda and his cohorts. Times have moved on.

Edited January 25, 2010 by scorecard

[slimdog]

There was an excellent article in the Nation yesterday about exactly why the military are playing things this way, the alleged aim is for them to allow the battling to continue whilst they ride in on their white steeds to take over, telling the Thai citizens that it is clear that democracy will not work here and the only way forward and for peace would be for the military to run the country. let me see if I can find a link to it, nope can not find it in the online version.

Tony

Are you sure you are not getting mixed up with the opinion piece by Voranai Vanijaka in the paper which may never be named....

[jayboy]

Well finally you state they only had undemocratic and racist elements in PAD.

As with ANY group there are alway fringe elements off the main stream.

.

No I was referring to people like you who incredibly still find it hard to admit PAD contained no racist or undemocratic elements in it.

The reality is these elements underpinned the whole organization.

Are you about to add Baker/Pasuk, those well known admirers of Thaksin, to your hate list by the way?

[scorecard]

Samuian wrote ".................Can anyone imagine if this crowd get's it their way, then there will be "genuine democrazy one can eat!"?

They decide who is "one" and most of them will be very hungry, from all this campaigning, then the country will be divided into shares.... of the Thailand Inc. who wanted to be the chairman?

Great point.

Just imagine this scenario:

- When the next election comes (and it must come eventually) PT and their allies buy enough votes , posssibly openly, to ensure they get back into the driving seat, but also with full knowledge that there's a chance their vote buying will see them tossed out again, but not at least for a few weeks while things are investigated. (But being 'tossed out' again is not guaraneed if they can intimidate the EC enough.)

- Chavalit or Chalerm as PM.

- Jatuporn, Arisman, etc take up the posts of Interior Ministry, Justice Ministry etc.

- Within a few days in office they overturn toxins conviction and overturn the 5 year ban on some 250 rogues. (Nopadon has probably already prepared the paper work.)

- Sudarat and her ilk back in charge of ministries.

- People like sae daeng rewarded by being promoted even higher.

FRIGHTENING, to say the least.

[scorecard]

Its all about trying to build a momentum which right now isnt there, and to be honest gets undermined by some of the more outrageious actions and claims of those linked to the red side. Like the PAD before those idealists on the red side are heavily let down by their leadership. Infact until political organizations in Thailand become genuinely influenced, formed and led from the bottom up, they will continue to be bodies for use by the various elites whether they be traditonal town based, traditional rural based, newer town based or newer rural based in some combination or other.

Fighting for respected elections and fighting for strong checks and balances that can deal with even the most powerful government, business, police or military characters are not mutually exclusive ideals. It is the leaderships of the respective sides that have their own agendas of power and control that coerce peopel to believe they are mutually exclusive and to thereby undermine any move to a balanced democracy, which of courser is the last thing the elite groups on either side really want. The real battle is not the colour coordinated one but the battle to reduce the power and influence of those who lead both sides and that has not even begun.

Quote from above: ".......In fact until political organizations in Thailand become genuinely influenced, formed and led from the bottom up, they will continue to be bodies for use by the various elites whether they be traditonal town based, traditional rural based, newer town based or newer rural based in some combination or other. ..."

Totaly agree with this specific point.

Most democracies in the world have been through very rough patches (control by the ruthless and uncaring aristocracy etc etc) until eventually the middle classes got the courage to stand up and demand that the picture change.

Same thing is going to eventually happen in Thailand. In fact I suggest that a large percentage of the core of the PAD people were in fact 'the middle classes' who wanted to be heard and were demanding change towards quality democracy.

[jayboy]

Most democracies in the world have been through very rough patches (control by the ruthless and uncaring aristocracy etc etc) until eventually the middle classes got the courage to stand up and demand that the picture change.

Same thing is going to eventually happen in Thailand. In fact I suggest that a large percentage of the core of the PAD people were in fact 'the middle classes' who wanted to be heard and were demanding change towards quality democracy.

I see what you're getting at but let me make some points based on a study of history.

Brutal and uncaring aristocracies is to describe with the benefit of hindsight.All societies were at one time or another dominated by monarchs and an aristocracy.Change comes violently or non violently.Where it came non violently (more or less) as in nineteenth century England the aristocracy had an enlightened sense of self interest which allolwed them to survive and prosper.Where they didn't as in early twentieth Russia they were cast adrift to wander the world while the Romanovs met their end brutally in a dark cellar.

Your analysis of PAD is partly right particularly its middle class background.The fatal flaw however was that it is was fundamentally a self centred movement and the "quality democracy" you mention but don't define was based on minimising the role of the Thai rural majority.I don't doubt that whatever eventually emerges as a properly representative government Thailand will end up being dominated by the educated middle class.But PAD's weakness was and is the lack of compassion towards their fellow countryman.Middle class selfishness can be as cruel and as politically misguided as aristocratic selfishness.

[animatic]

Well finally you state they only had undemocratic and racist elements in PAD.

As with ANY group there are alway fringe elements off the main stream.

.

No I was referring to people like youwho incredibly still find it hard to admit PAD contained no racist or undemocratic elements in it.

The reality is these elements underpinned the whole organization.

Are you about to add Baker/Pasuk, those well known admirers of Thaksin, to your hate list by the way?

I repeat and you ignore the requests to show me the dialog you say is so racist.

Please show us exactly what you mean if it's so blatant.

But even as I state above that there were fringe elements in PAD with those negative qualities,

you STILL inisist I have not ever acknowledged that. You can slag, but you don't read posts clearly

except to back up your points, and that causes errors on your part.

I don't find PnB particularly admiring of him over all.

I don't hate all Thaksin fans, not in the way you hate anti-Thaksin fans for speaking out,

I just dislike those that can't see his negatives at all. And think that gives him a free pass to destroy the country.

[Thai at Heart]

I see what you're getting at but let me make some points based on a study of history.

Brutal and uncaring aristocracies is to describe with the benefit of hindsight.All societies were at one time or another dominated by monarchs and an aristocracy.Change comes violently or non violently.Where it came non violently (more or less) as in nineteenth century England the aristocracy had an enlightened sense of self interest which allolwed them to survive and prosper.Where they didn't as in early twentieth Russia they were cast adrift to wander the world while the Romanovs met their end brutally in a dark cellar.

Your analysis of PAD is partly right particularly its middle class background.The fatal flaw however was that it is was fundamentally a self centred movement and the "quality democracy" you mention but don't define was based on minimising the role of the Thai rural majority.I don't doubt that whatever eventually emerges as a properly representative government Thailand will end up being dominated by the educated middle class.But PAD's weakness was and is the lack of compassion towards their fellow countryman.Middle class selfishness can be as cruel and as politically misguided as aristocratic selfishness.

I think what should be believed is that almost no one gives things up they believe that they are entitled to or believe that they themselves have worked to create.

Middle class self satisfaction over their rural neighbours is as bad in the long run than a system dominated by aristocracy. This is because as happy as the middle feels to be fed and watered sitting pretty, the really wealthy of the country still do exactly what they want. This is why, as bad as Thaksin's policies may have been, the answer to the issues he raised was definitely not what the PAD espoused.

If anyone has noticed anything, the country functions quite well when parliaments sit, laws are passed, courts do their job, armies don't meddle and people do what they are meant to do and the only confrontation is across the parliament floor.

Thaksin messed with the system, but who created the system? The so-called respected intelligencia of the country made a system that could be completely railroaded. Then more stupidly, the army rail roaded another one in. This country must have the most inept legal minds around if they can't write a water tight constitution that delivers the right type of system. But without the army being put in their place, does it matter. Boxes full of cash turn up at courts, because this is the way it is done here. Thaksin is not the issue, the entire system is the issue.

The issues today have been around for ages. Rural poverty, middle class taxation, tax evasion, land taxation, wealth distribution, the role of the army, and yet after 60 years of supposed democracy they are still debating a land tax? Seems the system has never actually been set up to deliver effective government and take any morsel away from the very wealthy at the top of society.

Lest we forget this is a land where the vast majority (80%) of the arable lands is in the hands of less than 20% (maybe less) of the population, but they pay no or almost no tax on this extraordinary wealth. I myself found out that on a house I own up country, the local government levied 92 baht tax last year on a property. 92 baht, but the road is full of holes, and the schools are overcrowded and the police are corrupt, the list goes on and on. People won't pay more because they know about corruption, and yet to pay 192 baht would double the local government budget and the locality would probably look like Beverly Hills if the money was spent properly.

This whole mess could have been avoided if the judges right at the beginning had done their job and stated that having your maid own shares is not allowed. That was the starting point of this entire mess. The legal system allowed itself to be swayed because "mai bpen arai, khon rooay". The strange thing, is that none of the "khon rooay" appear to want to help the country or their fellow man either, because they don't trust the government to spread the wealth without gouging 20% of it.

[jdinasia]

Well finally you state they only had undemocratic and racist elements in PAD.

As with ANY group there are alway fringe elements off the main stream.

.

No I was referring to people like you who incredibly still find it hard to admit PAD contained no racist or undemocratic elements in it.

The reality is these elements underpinned the whole organization.

Are you about to add Baker/Pasuk, those well known admirers of Thaksin, to your hate list by the way?

I see you are playing with 1/2 truths and full misrepresentation again jayboy ... sad

Then again your rants about the "Sino-Thai" might be considered 'racist' since you tend to lump them all into one group that wants to oppress the poor deserving farmer ((With the exclusion of Thaksin and his brethren --- the ones that benefitted from all the TRT populist schemes)

The op/ed piece you quoted was certainly funny in that it laid violence at the feet of the PAD and not the reds ...

But rather than carry this over into THIS thread .. why don't you respond to the questions in the other one? Please feel free to cop[y that quote over there too since it clearly states that your guy Thaksin and his red movement is not interested in Democracy

[jayboy]

But even as I state above that there were fringe elements in PAD with those negative qualities,

you STILL inisist I have not ever acknowledged that. You can slag, but you don't read posts clearly

except to back up your points, and that causes errors on your part.

I don't find PnB particularly admiring of him over all.

I don't hate all Thaksin fans, not in the way you hate anti-Thaksin fans for speaking out,

I just dislike those that can't see his negatives at all. And think that gives him a free pass to destroy the country.

Sorry this is too simple minded for me to respond to, specifically the fatuous way you talk about Thaksin-fans and anti-Thaksin fans.

There's much more to Thai politics than this.There's even a sophisticated and convincing case to be made from the wing I take it you represent.

[jayboy]

The op/ed piece you quoted was certainly funny in that it laid violence at the feet of the PAD and not the reds ...

See my brief response to Animatic.To be honest I didn't really understand what your post was all about.If you concisely summarise your points I'll do my best to address them (if they make sense).

On a point of information I have no animosity towards Sino-Thais at all, simply observing they as mainly urban middle class were the predominant element in the PAD mobs.There are plenty of Sino-Thais favouring democratic progress.

[SomTumTiger]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Edited January 25, 2010 by SomTumTiger

[jayboy]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

[SomTumTiger]

Never said I wasn't simple minded - I am, and thanks for quoting me, because I am absolutely right! If you wish to take up the challenge of defending any of those listed, by all means - have at it!

[Siripon]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

The writer forgot to mention Nattawut who had the crazy ideas of protesting at Suwannaphum airport and outside Sirirat hospital, political suicide for sure.

[jdinasia]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

LOL

You still evade answering questions and do it through misrepresentation and lies. Please tell us about the names listed above and how they are GOOD examples of the Red movement

[ballpoint]

I'm amazed at the guile and craft of the redshirts to announce this at the same time as Thaksin makes his "government in exile should a coup take place" tweet. What cunning! A two pronged attack, twice the smoke, there surely must be a fire there somewhere. Add in the third prong of Seh Daeng and his threats against the army, and the gullible will be racing to the fall out shelters crying "the coup has fallen on our heads". Their tactics are so transparent as to be shameful to them. Could one of "the redshirts are not just all about Thaksin" persuasion tell us why this is just coincidence, and no prior plannimg or collusion took place?

[jayboy]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

LOL

You still evade answering questions and do it through misrepresentation and lies. Please tell us about the names listed above and how they are GOOD examples of the Red movement

I say steady on old boy.That's a bit strong and anyway you seem to have missed the point of the quotation above which was to try and establish (albeit with facetious intent) the benchmark for a sophisticated contribution.Suffice it to say the bar has been set very low.

As it happens, I don't hold a banner for any of the chaps mentioned, and what on earth prompted you to think I might have?

My earlier offer still stands.If you can manage to express yourself clearly and if possible concisely and without flaming, I would be happy to try and answer any questions you might have.