Uk Election Results

[custard]

Blair secures historic third term

Tony Blair has won an historic third term in government for Labour but with a drastically reduced majority.

Mr Blair pledged to respond "sensibly and wisely" to the result, which the BBC predicts will see his majority cut from 167 in 2001 to 66.

The Conservatives have mounted a strong challenge but their overall share of the vote will be similar to 2001.

The Lib Dems have made big inroads on Labour majorities and look set to end up with an estimated 60 seats.

'Divisive issue'

Mr Blair said it was clear that "the British people wanted to return a Labour government but with a reduced majority".

He said Labour, which looks set to have won 36% of the vote, had to "focus on the things that matter" such as the NHS, jobs and law and order.

He added: "I know too that Iraq has been a divisive issue in this country but I hope now that we can unite again and look to the future - there and here."

Conservative leader Michael Howard congratulated Tony Blair on Labour's win but said it was time for him to deliver on his promises.

"I am proud of the campaign we have fought. We have taken a stand on the things that really do matter to the people of this country," said Mr Howard.

There has been a 5% swing to the Conservatives in London, where the party has unseated schools minister Stephen Twigg, who famously snatched the seat from Tory Michael Portillo in 1997.

The Tories have also gained Shipley from Labour, unseating junior minister Christopher Leslie, and taken Newbury from the Lib Dems.

HIGHLIGHTS

Tories unseat Labour minister Stephen Twigg

George Galloway wins in Bethnal Green

Anti-war candidate Reg Keys polls 10% in Sedgefield

Alan Milburn quits frontline politics

Lib Dems unseat Labour's Barbara Roche on a 14% swing

Lib Dems fail to unseat top Tories

BNP gains 5% of vote in seats where it stood

Robert Kilroy-Silk polls just 2,957 votes

Independent Richard Taylor wins again in Wyre Forest

Peter Law, who quit Labour in protest at all-women short-lists, overturns a 20,000 Labour majority to win Blaenau Gwent

Turnout up slightly on 2001

The Lib Dems held on to Cheadle, which had been the Conservatives' top target, and unseated Labour ex-minister Barbara Roche on a 14% swing.

But they failed in their "decapitation" strategy to unseat ex-Tory chairman Theresa May and shadow home secretary David Davies and Oliver Letwin, who all retained their seats with increased majorities.

Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy said voters had ushered in a new era of three-party politics as he was returned as an MP by an overwhelming majority.

Nicholas Soames, shadow defence secretary in the last Parliament, said he was "not at all disappointed" with Tories' performance, saying he thought it was "going very well indeed".

And he urged Michael Howard to stay on as party leader.

George Galloway, of the anti-war Respect party, narrowly beat Labour's Oona King, who voted for the Iraq war, in Bethnal Green, one of the most bitter contests in the 2005 election.

BNP leader Nick Griffin took 9% of the vote in Keighley, where Labour's Anne Cryer was returned as the town's MP.

The Greens have gained 22% of the vote in Brighton Pavillion, beating the Lib Dems into fourth place.

Are you happy with the results ? Who would you have voted for ? Do you think Mr Blair will be able to finish his third spell or is it about time Gordon Brown took over from him ?

As a liberal democrat, I must say I'm quite chuffed about the Lib Dems' performances. It's deffo now three-party politics in the UK

[fw1]

Am ambivalent...better the devil you know perhaps.

Still can't have faith in the Tories, and like so many, had hoped your party would do much better, giving Labour a real challenge.

[danintrang]

Bush - Putin - Taksin - Blair .... The world should be safe

[danintrang]

What's mean Chuffed and Gutted?

[taxexile]

chuffed means delighted and gutted means upset.

the fact that a smooth tongued lawyer with little regard for the truth or for the well being of britain has been elected for a third term should tell you all you need to know about the quality of politicians there and the apathy and lack of intelligence of the british voting public.

in the eight years that labour have been in power they have singularly failed to address any of the issues that they promised to attend to should they gain power.

as a result , britain is now a country where criminals , even when apprehended are rarely prosecuted , a country where parking violations are punished heavier than burglary , where older people are denied health care on the grounds that it is not cost efficient , where policemen spend more time on paperwork than patrol , where schoolpupils attack their teachers and where tony blair thinks it just to launch an attack on a country that posed no threat to the uk.

in england the lazy and the liars and the cheats are rewarded whilst law abiding hard working families are punished for their efforts.

its an upside down place these days.

for example.

I'll buy houses and a flash car, says yob awarded £567,000

A teenage criminal who received £567,000 in compensation after falling through a roof while trespassing boasted about his wealth yesterday, saying that he was looking forward to buying "a few houses and a flash car".

 

Carl Murphy, 18, got the payout last week, nine years after being injured in a 40ft fall at a warehouse in Bootle docks, near Liverpool, prompting angry protests from crime victims and politicians.

In his first public interview since receiving the award, Murphy - who has convictions for robbery, burglary and assault - said that he did not care about the response.

"I deserve this money and I don't care what anybody says about me," he said. "I'm going to buy a big house so I have a place to live with me mum when she gets out of jail. I might buy a few houses - I'll buy whatever I want." He added: "The papers just call me a yob and a thug because I've been done for robbery and assault but those were just silly stupid little things, like.

"I want to spend my money the way I want without people interfering and I want to have a prosperous future.

"I want to take my mates to Liverpool games and get a flash car. This money is mine now and I'll do what I want. I don't care about anyone or what they have to say about it."

Murphy received his compensation after suing the company that owned the warehouse. He claimed that if the perimeter fence had not been in disrepair he would not have been able to gain entry and suffer his injuries.

He is now partially blinded in his left eye and has 17 metal plates in his skull as a result of the fall. He also claims that the incident has caused him to suffer from behavioural problems. It annoys me that people think I don't deserve this money after all I've been through," he said. "I'm going to spend my money on whatever I want and everyone who called me 'Tin Head' can go get stuffed."

Residents of Bootle, where Murphy lives, said that they were too scared to speak publicly about the case but privately described him as the area "king yob".

One said: "He shaves his head so we can all see the scars. He likes to walk around and play the big man.

"I've seen him yelling abuse at the shopkeepers, telling them how he is going to buy the shop with his compensation money and throw them out.

"He is a villain around here. Everybody knows him but no one wants to confront him. He has a big family and they all stand up for each other."

In November last year, Murphy's mother Diane and her partner Kevin Parsons, both 36, were jailed for three years for dealing in crack cocaine and heroin from their council house in Bellini Close.

A police spokesman said: "Diane Murphy was using the home to distribute Class A drugs which was bringing a large criminal element into the suburb.

"Residents in the area are intimidated. Crime is happening on their doorstep. People like Diane Murphy and others who sell drugs disrupt the decent people who live there."

Police describe the area around Bellini Close as a "hotbed for anti-social behaviour, street-level crime and the distribution of Class A drugs". Several buildings are boarded up and vandalised - and gangs of teenagers wearing shell suits and trainers walk up and down the street shouting and drinking alcohol in the early daytime. Police make regular rounds.

Since Murphy's mother was jailed, he has lived with his grandmother, Barbara Murphy, who keeps a rottweiler in her home on nearby Church Grove.

She said: "He never finished school because the teachers couldn't control him. He was a nice boy before the accident but ever since the injuries he has been difficult to control. He needs this money. That is him for life now. What is he going to do without it?"

She said that Murphy does not work or attend school. Neighbours say that they see him drinking in the park with friends on most evenings or hanging around a local cafe.

The payout has been condemned by charities, which point out that victims of crime receive far less under the Government's criminal injuries compensation scheme.

The parents of James Bulger received just £7,500 following his murder, and the family of Damilola Taylor received £10,000 following his murder.

Clive Elliott, the director of the Victims of Crime Trust, said: "All rights to compensation should cease the moment a person breaks the law, in this case trespassing.

"Wrongdoers think they are beyond the law - and in this case they have shown they can become quite well off by breaking it."

from the bbc website a couple of weeks ago.

the place has really gone mad when things like that can happen , and they happen on a daily basis.

[chuchok]

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

[danintrang]

The Queen or Mr. Bean seems honnest. Why nobody vote for them?

[Rags]

Not happy

Thanks to just 37% of the voters, Blair's "Presidency" continues....!!!

The only good thing about the result appears to be Labour's reduced majority in the house. Hopefully this should help to prevent them from pushing through dubious bills and trying to change the establishment to suit their own agenda.

Rags

[Wolfie]

Just going to drop this thread into HKK as its not Thai Related...

[ThaiPauly]

I am amazed at myself because I voted that I was indifferent.

When I was resident in the UK I would have been either Chuffed or Gutted.

Amazing what 2 years in LOS does for you as now I dont give a hoot (to nick someone elses phrase)

Anyone else feel the same?

[ace]

Amazing what 2 years in LOS does for you as now I dont give a hoot (to nick someone elses phrase) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not surprising, it won't be you paying out yet more of their hard earned in, National "it's not really a tax, honest" Insurance.

Ltd. companies = double NI too.

At least I made £50 betting on the result

UK economy is moving to recession double-quick, time to move forward exit plans.

[stumonster]

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

I've found the loophole in democracy.

It's stupid people.

Vast masses of stupid people

bush was re-elected , howard was re-elected , it was a forgone conclusion blair would get back in.

oh well.....

I wish I were a glow worm

A glow worm's never glum

'cos how can you be grumpy

when the sun shines out your bum!

[the scouser]

Anyone but the Tories. Thatcher did more to &lt;deleted&gt; the UK and its inhabitants than Blair could ever do.

Scouse.

[Rinrada]

Amazing what 2 years in LOS does for you as now I dont give a hoot (to nick someone elses phrase) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not surprising, it won't be you paying out yet more of their hard earned in, National "it's not really a tax, honest" Insurance.

Ltd. companies = double NI too.

At least I made £50 betting on the result

UK economy is moving to recession double-quick, time to move forward exit plans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This sort of recession is OK by me

Friday, May 6, 2005

1 British Pound = 75.26753 Thai Baht

1 Thai Baht (THB) = 0.01329 British Pound (GBP)

[ArtfulD]

Labour were even worse before Thatcher. Now it seems that the main excuse for keeping Labour is "Remember the Thatcher years"...Complaints about hospitals decline and crime rising is always refered back to "Oh we have only had 8 years so far to undo all the Tories did! We need more time!" Im sure the same argument will be used at the next election also...

The only way the economy has kept strong the past couple of years is huge housing boom letting people release equity and increasing stamp duty returns. Released equity along with big credit card debts in todays culture let people purchase consumer goods which give the coffers 17.5% on most things letting Brown increase some spending with the extra cash.

With Bankruptcies now at a record high http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4520973.stm

lets see how the economy holds up over the next 4 years as interest rates start to bite into the Must Have It Now debt culture and the budget suffers from some major shortfalls.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4514207.stm

"A government policy to rob Peter to pay Paul, can be assured of the support of Paul." -George Bernard Shaw

"We have no more right to consume happiness without producing it, than to consume wealth without producing it.-- George Bernard Shaw.

[taxexile]

Anyone but the Tories. Thatcher did more to &lt;deleted&gt; the UK and its inhabitants than Blair could ever do.

Scouse.

what thatcher did was give anybody who was prepared to work , a chance to improve themselves , as opposed to do as little as possible for the maximum gain.

and the people in charge were as corrupt and lazy as the people they controlled.

socialism is the politics of envy and greed , based on class.

i'm too lazy to work hard and secure my future , therefore i hate everyone who is not too lazy to work hard.

socialism is a disgusting cancer that holds people back from achieving.

thatcher turned britain around from the miseries of grey sixties socialism and brought it into the modern world.

most liverpool people despise thatcher because her policies introduced the concept

(unheard of in liverpool) of "an honest days pay for an honest days work".

she destroyed the restrictive practices by which trade unions were succesfully using to strangle industry.

old labour would have had us all working down the pits and living in back to backs if it could.

unfortunately thatcher lost the plot towards the end of her prime minister ship.

under blair , government control and interference in the daily lives of people is at an all time maddening high. with no benefits to be shown at all for it.

government should concern themselves with education , defense , and health care and benefits for the really needy, full stop.

everything else should be privatised and people should learn to take responsibility for themselves more.

england , (and europe ) , after years of socialist governments , are running out of funding to feed the vast benefits and compliance structure that such regulated and nannying systems work on.

in 50 years time europe will be a poverty stricken muslim dominated junkyard , and asia will be shutting the doors on the thousands of european economic migrants seeking a better life in china , india , thailand and vietnam.

[Rags]

Anyone but the Tories. Thatcher did more to &lt;deleted&gt; the UK and its inhabitants than Blair could ever do.

Scouse.

what thatcher did was give anybody who was prepared to work , a chance to improve themselves , as opposed to do as little as possible for the maximum gain.

and the people in charge were as corrupt and lazy as the people they controlled.

socialism is the politics of envy and greed , based on class.

i'm too lazy to work hard and secure my future , therefore i hate everyone who is not too lazy to work hard.

socialism is a disgusting cancer that holds people back from achieving.

thatcher turned britain around from the miseries of grey sixties socialism and brought it into the modern world.

most liverpool people despise thatcher because her policies introduced the concept

(unheard of in liverpool) of "an honest days pay for an honest days work".

she destroyed the restrictive practices by which trade unions were succesfully using to strangle industry.

old labour would have had us all working down the pits and living in back to backs if it could.

unfortunately thatcher lost the plot towards the end of her prime minister ship.

under blair , government control and interference in the daily lives of people is at an all time maddening high. with no benefits to be shown at all for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

I have no problem with providing support and handouts to those that need it, in fact that is what should happen - but my idea of "those that need it" does not include those that can't be arsed to find work, and spend their lives playing the system.

As for the popular refrain of "Thatcher did more to &lt;deleted&gt; the UK etc..." people seem to conveniently forget the state of the country and the direction it was heading before Maggie took control. OK as Taxexile pointed out she lost it a little at the end, but that doesn't take away from the fact that she turned things around from the Labour mess that she inherited...

[lampard10]

I see by the poll results on this subject; 30.43% can afford to go to Thailand; 21.74% can't afford it and 47.83% already live here.

[Rags]

I see by the poll results on this subject; 30.43% can afford to go to Thailand; 21.74% can't afford it and 47.83% already live here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lampard,

Like it

Great statistical analysis - I see a bright future for you as TV's answer to the BBC's John Snow....!!

Rags

[the scouser]

Tax,

I don't intend to respond to the comments you made as everyone has their own views and it is thoroughly unlikely that I will convince you as I am unconvinced by your illogicalities.

Suffice to say that I just have a visceral hatred of the Tories and anyone of their ilk. And when I say hatred, it goes beyond that; I despise/loathe/detest the c*nts. This is not for the puerile reason that you gave that most people from Liverpool don't want to work.

Scouse.

[taxexile]

Suffice to say that I just have a visceral hatred of the Tories and anyone of their ilk. And when I say hatred, it goes beyond that; I despise/loathe/detest the c*nts. This is not for the puerile reason that you gave that most people from Liverpool don't want to work.

not like you to sit on the fence scouser

taxexile said

socialism is the politics of envy and greed , based on class.

i'm too lazy to work hard and secure my future , therefore i hate everyone who is not too lazy to work hard.

socialism is a disgusting cancer that holds people back from achieving.

scouser replied

Suffice to say that I just have a visceral hatred of the Tories and anyone of their ilk. And when I say hatred, it goes beyond that; I despise/loathe/detest the c*nts.

nuff said.

[lampard10]

Tax,

I don't intend to respond to the comments you made as everyone has their own views and it is thoroughly unlikely that I will convince you as I am unconvinced by your illogicalities.

Suffice to say that I just have a visceral hatred of the Tories and anyone of their ilk. And when I say hatred, it goes beyond that; I despise/loathe/detest the c*nts. This is not for the puerile reason that you gave that most people from Liverpool don't want to work.

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I like money and would love to be rich,so I guess that makes me a tory. I must say though I love the government,whatever party is in power. If it was not for those imberciles &lt;deleted&gt; the country up I might still be living there instead of in paradise.

[boris]

Tax,

I don't intend to respond to the comments you made as everyone has their own views and it is thoroughly unlikely that I will convince you as I am unconvinced by your illogicalities.

Suffice to say that I just have a visceral hatred of the Tories and anyone of their ilk. And when I say hatred, it goes beyond that; I despise/loathe/detest the c*nts. This is not for the puerile reason that you gave that most people from Liverpool don't want to work.

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would be interesting to know why you feel so strongly.If I didn't know from your previous postings you were a sensible guy I'm afraid I would conclude you were unbalanced.I'm not a Tory but a Lib Dem I suppose.However I have socially aware and decent friends in both the Labour and Conservative parties.Didn't Michael Heseltine,a Tory, lead the effort to reinvigorate Liverpool's economy?

[the scouser]

Hi Boris,

In saying you're Lib Dem-inclined, you've now, regretfully, dispelled my belief that you were, in fact, that waggish and loveable Tory, Boris Johnson.

Yes, "Tarzan" did lead the task force to reinvigorate Liverpool's economy but the most visible thrust of this was a garden festival. Need I say more????

As I said in my previous post, my politics are visceral. I am not saying either that the Tories have never made a correct decision or that the sun shines out of the Labour party's arse, but I could never vote for a party whose ethos is one of selfishness and greed at the expense of others.

The ever-sensible,

Scouse.

[Thomas_Merton]

Hi Boris,

In saying you're Lib Dem-inclined, you've now, regretfully, dispelled my belief that you were, in fact, that waggish and loveable Tory, Boris Johnson.

Yes, "Tarzan" did lead the task force to reinvigorate Liverpool's economy but the most visible thrust of this was a garden festival. Need I say more????

As I said in my previous post, my politics are visceral. I am not saying either that the Tories have never made a correct decision or that the sun shines out of the Labour party's arse, but I could never vote for a party whose ethos is one of selfishness and greed at the expense of others.

The ever-sensible,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and even a life-long Evertonian, as me, has no difficulty in agreeing with the above sentiments.

A brief knowledge of history shows that the Tory’s raison d'etre is the support and protection of privilege.

The gloss of social responsibility displayed by liberal Conservatives such as Michael Heseltine, is just that, a gloss covering the real meaning of Toryism: which is the organised opposition to any forms of redistribution of the wealth of the UK from the privileged who inherit it to the working people who have always created it.

[boris]

Hi Boris,

In saying you're Lib Dem-inclined, you've now, regretfully, dispelled my belief that you were, in fact, that waggish and loveable Tory, Boris Johnson.

Yes, "Tarzan" did lead the task force to reinvigorate Liverpool's economy but the most visible thrust of this was a garden festival. Need I say more????

As I said in my previous post, my politics are visceral. I am not saying either that the Tories have never made a correct decision or that the sun shines out of the Labour party's arse, but I could never vote for a party whose ethos is one of selfishness and greed at the expense of others.

The ever-sensible,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and even a life-long Evertonian, as me, has no difficulty in agreeing with the above sentiments.

A brief knowledge of history shows that the Tory’s raison d'etre is the support and protection of privilege.

The gloss of social responsibility displayed by liberal Conservatives such as Michael Heseltine, is just that, a gloss covering the real meaning of Toryism: which is the organised opposition to any forms of redistribution of the wealth of the UK from the privileged who inherit it to the working people who have always created it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Clearly in your case rather more than a brief knowledge of history is in order unless you are simply happy to dispense with reality and mouth Scargillisms.A good case can in fact be made that it was the Conservatives that unlocked the cage in which British working class was restrained, though I would agree that the social consequences of this have not always been good.Having said that if you made a similar case about the privileged class in Thailand, I would be very much inclined to agree!

[lampard10]

Hi Boris,

In saying you're Lib Dem-inclined, you've now, regretfully, dispelled my belief that you were, in fact, that waggish and loveable Tory, Boris Johnson.

Yes, "Tarzan" did lead the task force to reinvigorate Liverpool's economy but the most visible thrust of this was a garden festival. Need I say more????

As I said in my previous post, my politics are visceral. I am not saying either that the Tories have never made a correct decision or that the sun shines out of the Labour party's arse, but I could never vote for a party whose ethos is one of selfishness and greed at the expense of others.

The ever-sensible,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and even a life-long Evertonian, as me, has no difficulty in agreeing with the above sentiments.

A brief knowledge of history shows that the Tory’s raison d'etre is the support and protection of privilege.

The gloss of social responsibility displayed by liberal Conservatives such as Michael Heseltine, is just that, a gloss covering the real meaning of Toryism: which is the organised opposition to any forms of redistribution of the wealth of the UK from the privileged who inherit it to the working people who have always created it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Clearly in your case rather more than a brief knowledge of history is in order unless you are simply happy to dispense with reality and mouth Scargillisms.A good case can in fact be made that it was the Conservatives that unlocked the cage in which British working class was restrained, though I would agree that the social consequences of this have not always been good.Having said that if you made a similar case about the privileged class in Thailand, I would be very much inclined to agree!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Boris..........................I knew there was an intellegent person lurking within that duffers cloak you wear.

[Thomas_Merton]

Hi Boris,

In saying you're Lib Dem-inclined, you've now, regretfully, dispelled my belief that you were, in fact, that waggish and loveable Tory, Boris Johnson.

Yes, "Tarzan" did lead the task force to reinvigorate Liverpool's economy but the most visible thrust of this was a garden festival. Need I say more????

As I said in my previous post, my politics are visceral. I am not saying either that the Tories have never made a correct decision or that the sun shines out of the Labour party's arse, but I could never vote for a party whose ethos is one of selfishness and greed at the expense of others.

The ever-sensible,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and even a life-long Evertonian, as me, has no difficulty in agreeing with the above sentiments.

A brief knowledge of history shows that the Tory’s raison d'etre is the support and protection of privilege.

The gloss of social responsibility displayed by liberal Conservatives such as Michael Heseltine, is just that, a gloss covering the real meaning of Toryism: which is the organised opposition to any forms of redistribution of the wealth of the UK from the privileged who inherit it to the working people who have always created it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Clearly in your case rather more than a brief knowledge of history is in order unless you are simply happy to dispense with reality and mouth Scargillisms.

But dear old Arthur Scargill was at least an educated man who could support his statements with academic evidence:

David Cody, Associate Professor of English, Hartwick College on Tories:

"A political designation, the meaning of which is, as usual, complex and ambivalent. Originally applied to Irish Catholic bandits, it was used derisively in the seventeenth century to characterize defenders of the principals of hereditary succession to the crown and non-resistance to the monarch. During the eighteenth century it was applied to conservatives who insisted upon the constituted authority of the Church of England, upon the divine right of kingship, and upon parliamentary privilege predicated upon the ownership of land. Less well organized, as a political party, than their opponents, the Whigs, the Tories fell into disarray after the Glorious Revolution in 1688, though there remained within parliament, through the reigns of William III and Anne, (the Tories, in fact, came briefly to power during Anne's reign, but were undone in 1714 by their manifestly Jacobitical tendencies) a significant block of members bound together by mutual adherence to Anglicanism, hostility to Dissenters, and continued insistence upon the principle of divine monarchical right.

The Tory power base was the conservative rural squirearchy, which was violently opposed to the taxation required to pay for the wars with France the Whigs stood rather to profit by. It was not until 1784 that the followers of Pitt returned the Tories to power, but after the French Revolution they came increasingly to be seen as a party of reaction, and eventually lost power in 1830. In the mid-nineteenth century the Tory party was rechristened the Conservative Party but its members are still popularly known as Tories."

A good case can in fact be made that it was the Conservatives that unlocked the cage in which British working class was restrained,

...and this is pure Saatchi and Saatchi. Where is your evidence?

though I would agree that the social consequences of this have not always been good.Having said that if you made a similar case about the privileged class in Thailand, I would be very much inclined to agree!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will not comment on a subject upon which I feel I am not qualified to do so.

[lampard10]

Hi Boris,

I will not comment on a subject upon which I feel I am not qualified to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just like everybody else on the forum then

[Thomas_Merton]

Hi Boris,

I will not comment on a subject upon which I feel I am not qualified to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just like everybody else on the forum then

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree - except in this one point of History, which because of my own education, I am forced to make.

Just, perhaps, as you would distinguish your comments and opinions on the matter of running a bar in LOS, from those who know the story only from the other side of the bar, and who wish to divert the argument into another, albeit similar, area.