Importing Engine From Us

[reginaldsnoo]

Hi

I am looking importing a V-twin engine from the US. I have heard in relation to importing a bike, that import tax here is unpredictable, and can be as much as 150% of estimated (invented) value.

If I import an engine ordered from the states, and so the purchase value will be with the documents on the crate, does anyone know if this is the value upon which import tax will be based? Or can they bump up that value in the direction of the brand-new value? (Mine would be a low mileage used engine).

Thanks for any info.

[crazyswede]

Interesting thread but i gues the answers will be negative!

[thaicbr]

I would suggest you contact an import agent and possible bring it in in 2 parts (to lesson the possibility of a customs guy taking a fancy to it) . You would need to make sure that the engine number is listed on the invoice. Otherwise you will NOT be able to change it onto your green book.

[richardt1808]

excellent idea above.

In fact, if you could split it into several parts, you may be even luckier. A bunch of used pistons and bolts would probably not pick up any duty at all on the right day. Then another parcel with a used crank-case etc. This is especially true if you could get a friend to do the sending. If the package originates from someone who could arguably be your family, as opposed to a motor-cycle dealer, then you could well fly under the radar.

Best of luck

[Richard-BKK]

The downside of sending the engine in parts is that it would be "much" more difficult and more stressful to replace the engine swap in the greenbook.

If you import a complete engine, with the engine number(s) noted on the invoice, import tax paid, it would be much easier to explain the whole transfer to a Department of Land Transport Officer then when you come with hundreds of Thai and foreign invoices to do the engine swap. And trust me, with a foreign imported engine parts with become an complete engine in Thailand you take difficult path, this path is full of headaches, times you want to give-up and moments you a willing to pay anything under the table to get it done (which is more and more not possible).

[thaicbr]

I was kinda saying take a head off and carry it in ya luggage rather than stripping the whole engine. Just enough not to make it a bargain for the customs guy who has a Harley at home. That way it still comes in as an engine with engine number on the invoice. The other thing to do is make it look well used eg spray oil over it and cover it in a bit of dust. if it looks to shiny then that ups the pecieved value so the rate the customs guy CAN decide its worth.

Edited February 15, 2010 by thaicbr

[reginaldsnoo]

Thanks for these ideas guys .. you are giving me good food for thought here. I appreciate you taking the time.

[choppertony]

If you were to send the engine over in bits then rebuilt it , Its possible to avoid the duty , Is the engine a direct replacement for an engine thats blew up, knackerered or whatever ?, If so then you,d have to be extremeley unlucky for anyone to realize its a replacement engine so avoiding any headaches with the green book alterations ! .

[LivinLOS]

10% import tax plus 7% sales tax..

Thats the rules anyway.

[thaicbr]

If you were to send the engine over in bits then rebuilt it , Its possible to avoid the duty , Is the engine a direct replacement for an engine thats blew up, knackerered or whatever ?, If so then you,d have to be extremeley unlucky for anyone to realize its a replacement engine so avoiding any headaches with the green book alterations ! .

But what happens when the Transport Dept check it at the annual inspection OR you get caught in a Customs inspection. Then ya bolloxed. You should always get the changes in the book then NO problems. Getting the engine number changed is not difficult as long as the correct import taxes have been paid and you have the paperwork. What you have to do is try and ensure that the customs guys dont take a shine to ya engine.

[LivinLOS]

If you were to send the engine over in bits then rebuilt it , Its possible to avoid the duty , Is the engine a direct replacement for an engine thats blew up, knackerered or whatever ?, If so then you,d have to be extremeley unlucky for anyone to realize its a replacement engine so avoiding any headaches with the green book alterations ! .

But what happens when the Transport Dept check it at the annual inspection OR you get caught in a Customs inspection. Then ya bolloxed. You should always get the changes in the book then NO problems. Getting the engine number changed is not difficult as long as the correct import taxes have been paid and you have the paperwork. What you have to do is try and ensure that the customs guys dont take a shine to ya engine.

Or you do a guts and garters engine rebuild.. Shifting over the crankcases..

As long as parts import duty is paid I dont see how this is illegal..

But a second hand engine is lower tax than new parts anyway..

[Whitefang]

You need to ship the engine in one piece or you will run into trouble later down the track, Use a good shipping company like seaflight world wide shipping, which is who I used and the import was around 1000 dollars on a second hand HD engine

Edited March 1, 2010 by Whitefang

[BSJ]

LivinLos said the import duty is 10% and sales tax 7%. Which is 177 baht/1000. Which could be a hel_l of a lot, say if your bringing in a Harley engine primary drive and gearbox. That just begs for a way around it!

[Richard-BKK]

If you have a Harley worth around a million Baht, would you replace the engine with an unregistered engine and likely face the whole bike be confiscated by a police / customs check.

People if you do things illegally you end up paying more. So you save money on the import of your engine but will never get it fully legally registered with your bike. And in the end you will forever pay under the table money to get your bike out of the hands of the authority.

If your cannot pay the cost or riding a Harley buy a budget Kawasaki bike...

[Pdaz]

I've been looking into bringing an engine in too but for a car.. According to the Thai customs website the tax is 30% + 7% tax.. I thought that was accross the board for car and bike parts ? Or is the 10% quoted for used parts ?

I was gonna export my old engine.. Have it rebuilt and modded overseas then re-import it.. Hopefully only paying tax on some of the parts used.. No tax on the labour. But after alot of research it seems I may be able to get a decent rebuild here so will only need to source the parts overseas..

Biggest bu99er is as has been said already trying to make sure you stuff doesn't look too expensive and doesn't look attractive to the customs guy.. Another prob is using couriers like DHL, TNT.. DON'T they often try the delayed by customs oin BKK scam and want to charge you for storage while the stuff is inspected.. Another scam is trying to add the transport cost to the total and charging you tax/VAT on it all.. If at all posible make sure the company you purchase anything from bills you seprately for the transport/shipping... Cos the customs guys will work out the tax on the total and if you mention it you will likely get the 'we keep till you pay' line...

I've been bringing in stuff by regular post, hand carry and by courier (when no other choice) for some time.. eveything from spockets to helmets.. Usually when using the regular post the tax is correct or sometimes less than I expect. But pretty much everytime I haev used a courier there has been some snafu or extra charge.

Currently I have a shipment waiting in BKK.. Seller used a courier It arrived Monday (public holiday) and seems to have stalled.. TNT in their wisdom decided it needed a Thai language proforma... The UK company I bought from didn't provide one ( funny that ) So now my shipping agent ( a friend) is arguing the toss over extra charges..

Despite living in Asia half my life and still enjoying most of it.. When it comes to cars and bikes life here can be a drag sometimes... Any Western country you make a call and a few days later your shiny new 427cu crate engine arrives on the doorstep ''sign here sir'' If they just charged tax/VAT and stuck to the percentage it would be fine.. I don't have an issue with paying the taxes.. It's just all the other bullsh1t and the petty scams that pi55 me off..

[vision]

I am looking at doing the exact same thing with a Sporty engine here soon. Getting it in and much cheaper then previously quoted is relatively easy. Getting a ground up build booked is a bit more tricky but I have had pretty good luck so far buying bikes, frames, engines in the states and selling them here and we get calls all the time from customers who have books.....I just dont know how they got them. In any country though there are ways to register what you have so long as you are willing to dance to their tune.

[Whitefang]

To break it down at little more it was a total of 75,000 baht door to door.

25k inport tax

5k handling fee

25k to fly the engine by Thai airways from the middle east 100 or 120 KG I think

15k to 20k for the shipping company who deleived it to my front door in Thailand

and cost me about 85k for the frame to be imported and air feighted out of new york.

I dont have the papers on me to check but thats roughly what it cost

[LivinLOS]

I've been looking into bringing an engine in too but for a car.. According to the Thai customs website the tax is 30% + 7% tax.. I thought that was accross the board for car and bike parts ? Or is the 10% quoted for used parts ?

That was used engine costs.

[Pdaz]

Be well worth bringing in a used engine then.. 10% + VAT is only about the same as VAT in Europe.. Just need to find th echeapest shipping method. Not in any hurry so guess it can come by sea..

[LivinLOS]

UPS air freight was surprisingly cheap...

Tho you need to be aware of hazmat rules on used fuel engines.

[vision]

UPS air freight was surprisingly cheap...

Tho you need to be aware of hazmat rules on used fuel engines.

If you ship here terminal to terminal and buy from a dealer that ships a lot in the US then just have them ship it to your terminal dealer they will ship it in the US in compliance with US Haz Mat regs (engine flushed, steamed, secured) and that will comply with the freight carriers and Thai regs.

[vision]

Well I got this frame coming in on Sunday...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

The auction was $150 but shipping to Thailand added $500 because they use UPS and wouldn't allow me to have Fed Ex pick it up (my discount account is with Fed Ex).

The UPS custom clearing agent called today to tell us to have another 8000 baht ready for customs VAT and assorted fees.

So buy in Thailand price = 50,000 baht for a 2004 frame that may or may not come with any paperwork that may or may not be legit.

Buy in USA and ship price = just over half of that. Oh an if I do it myself I have the customs forms with the frame ID (and all in my name) to prove that it is 100% legit and the frame is delivered to my doorstep. THAT is why I reccomend by and ship.

An additional bonus for me since the US is my home country is If i buy a bike or frame out there with a title and decide I want to ship it back to the USA it is customs free and easy to register.

Edited March 11, 2010 by vision

[LivinLOS]

I am sure you will.. but report how it all goes..

UPS (and FEDEX) are crooks when it comes to calcing up the tax (they overdo it to CYA themselves).. Ralf and senator can do better IMO..

I had to pay some bribes.. Both at clearance and on the engine transfer.. few 1000 here few 1000 there.. Mighty annoying when your trying to be legit but they always find something that 'cannot'... Then again its Phuket, our DMV is a real pain..

[vision]

I am sure you will.. but report how it all goes..

UPS (and FEDEX) are crooks when it comes to calcing up the tax (they overdo it to CYA themselves).. Ralf and senator can do better IMO..

I had to pay some bribes.. Both at clearance and on the engine transfer.. few 1000 here few 1000 there.. Mighty annoying when your trying to be legit but they always find something that 'cannot'... Then again its Phuket, our DMV is a real pain..

Oh I will

Yes they are

And yea all the "mai dai" s that you get going terminal to terminal into Suvarnabhumi are almost comical. With each new counter/person you are greeted with a troubled looking face, the wringing of hands and a "mai dai" that always seemed to be remedied by the liberation of a new 1000 baht note or 2 from my wallet.

At least with Fed Ex I am paying criminals from the mother country, I get the miles on my FF program and since I use them almost daily for my biz they do give me 45% off of rack rate and a quote up front. Yea, I know their customs officer is still sticking it to me to CYA and probably pocketing a good percentage as well but what are you gonna do? At the end of the day they get my stuff to me fast and with all the documentation I need to show that this engine/frame/piece is mine and that I paid customs on it and the rate is better then a lot of people get just sending their own personal effects over here.

[LivinLOS]

I will be very curious how you go about getting a new book issued on the frame, my understanding is everything else can change but they wont let you change a frame (new frame number) even if its bent.. So the new registration is the first I have heard for a self builder.

Interesting one also.. I put a race tuned engine in my machine.. and did all the paperwork nightmare.. So now I have a second engine spare that I dont intend to sell.. But say I did want to sell it.. How do I now prove that its a tax paid engine ?? It IS a tax paid engine, it comes out of a legal tax paid bike.. So how could I sell it as theres no import papers to register.

I asked this at the DMV to a bunch of different staff.. The main comment was 'but that engine old.. no good now ??' doesnt answer the question, if you change for a high performance engine, how do you get tax cleared papers on the existing legal one ?? They just took me a for a trouble maker and I gave up.

[vision]

Would I need to change the frame number? Don't the big shops that sell 2nd hand imports all register bikes they bring in piecewise? I have no idea but I can guarantee I will find out....If not if it is possible then if it is practical.

Honestly, I will give it a shot to get the book and if it looks to be too much of a circus then I will send this frame back to the states where I have a title for it with all new tins and paint and hopefully sell it for a profit there. I never came on this forum trying to say "I am the all knowing expert at importing bikes" I was just reporting my own experiences and reading about other peoples and trying to come up with a best game pan that fit my style and my budget.

[LivinLOS]

Please dont take what I was saying as a kind of knock, I am rooting for you here !! Only the frustrations of the Thai legality on anything 'modified' is a nightmare..

My understanding on grey bike part imports are based on the fact the frame and parts come of a pre recognised machine, a machine they can describe and claim as legally 'bike xxx is make xxx model xxx number xxx'.. This gets lots uglier when anything is non standard (on Phuket they can refuse transfers on bikes based on LED indicators !! I kid you not..

I have made a street fighter... And as such I come crashing into this issue every time I want to register any changes, despite most of what I have done is upgrading the machine (projector lights, uber power but in thier eyes.. 'cannot.. mod-i-fi' etc)..

I have actually really enjoyed the build process.. Found I like getting stuck into it, making bits, and know know where every wire goes connects and what each and every connections quality is like (some not as good as others ) but the Thai systems dont seem to like anything unusual, kit cars or custom bikes.. At least not here.

[LivinLOS]

Ohh and as I forgot to answer the Q.. No my understanding is the frame and frame number is the one non changeable item, the way the Thai reg system seems to work is that the frame in the book, and the engine and everything else can change, but the frame remains the same. You cant have a bike book, change the frame and have the frame number modified in the book.

Thats how I have been informed it.. As I am sure you understand information like this in Thailand is open to lots of errors, my own understanding, the person who told me etc etc etc. Thats why what they tell you and how your build goes is of real interest, as it all adds data to the understanding / overall picture.

[vision]

Well that sounds standard about the frame and title but the only title I do not have a title for the frame yet so I wouldn't be filing to change anything but rather create one. But again that bridge is still in the horizon right now and I reserve the right to change course based on new information at any time.

Is your streetfighter registered now?

Also as i am sure you understand by now the literal translation from Thai to English

Mai Dai = need more money to do

[LivinLOS]

My fighter wasnt a fighter when purchased.. I knew going in that modifying it on Phuket is a road to trouble.. But didnt care, its my bike and not to be sold..

But the engine swap, was complicated as my GF is now my wife, with a new name.. So they needed to change her name to register the new engine imported in her name.. And to do so needed to inspect the bike.. Goodbye to another 3000 and change..