Working On Your Own House, Legal?

[Khutan]

I was actually asking stevehaig but thanks for the input.  I"ve heard about those planks your talking about but never seen them installed.  How thick is the concrete they put on top and do they put steel reinforcement in it?

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The concrete is about 30mm thick (I havn't got one nearby to measure) and they seem to be reinforced with a light steel mesh. I didn't like that when I stood on them on the ground they had about 5mm of flex under my body weight.

The planks span about 3m (from memory) so they fit in with the 3x3 building methods you see widely here. They sit at each end on a beam. going from each upright post. What my builder did was then add reinforcing mesh which was the 3mm mesh tied it to the planks and poured another 30mm of cement over the top. So the floor of the deck is about 60mm thick of reinforced cement.

On top of that you then can put a float floor or ceramic tiles. Since my wife has a fixation with ceramic tiles, thats how we went.

Things I don't totally like about the solution:

** There isn't really any water-prooing done, other than paint and ceramic tiles

** There is no real assuance to the strength of the cement. Is it 5Mpa, 6Mpa or 7Mpa cement, each have different qualaties.

** The Planks should be pre-stressed with steel cable rather than what looks to be a thin mesh, therefore the load capacity would be significantly greater and you wouldn't need to add further reinforcing.

** There isn't really any need for the planks at all, they should be able to pour a concrete floor without that trouble. I think its lazy workmanship. But at the end of the day it works. When you see multi-story buildings and also some domestic buildings with suspended cement floors, the builder forms the area, adds the reinforcing, Vibrates the cement, and finishes the top.

Hope that helps a bit more.

[udon]

The Hobby Scenario.

I'm growing a shedload of cuttings in my backyard for my garden.

I'm caught redhanded.

Verdict?

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I too am interested in the verdict... as I am doing exactly that.

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Are you rooting as well?

[jayenram]

I appreciate that this is going off topic but...

I looked at those 'pre-stressed' concrete planks upon the advice of my foreman. At the 'pre-stressing' works I saw little sign of any serious pre-stressing and the rebar was of minimal diameter. I decided to go for a 150 mm insitu concrete slab with 9 mm rebar tied into a 200 mm mesh. It was only the ground floor slab so it was laid on 'well compacted' ( ) imported stone with a sand blinding layer. The slab is still here (5 years) but I'm not sure what is underneath now.

[Jai Dee]

The Hobby Scenario.

I'm growing a shedload of cuttings in my backyard for my garden.

I'm caught redhanded.

Verdict?

I too am interested in the verdict... as I am doing exactly that.

Are you rooting as well?

(inside joke that folks! )

[chownah]

I was actually asking stevehaig but thanks for the input.  I"ve heard about those planks your talking about but never seen them installed.  How thick is the concrete they put on top and do they put steel reinforcement in it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The concrete is about 30mm thick (I havn't got one nearby to measure) and they seem to be reinforced with a light steel mesh. I didn't like that when I stood on them on the ground they had about 5mm of flex under my body weight.

The planks span about 3m (from memory) so they fit in with the 3x3 building methods you see widely here. They sit at each end on a beam. going from each upright post. What my builder did was then add reinforcing mesh which was the 3mm mesh tied it to the planks and poured another 30mm of cement over the top. So the floor of the deck is about 60mm thick of reinforced cement.

On top of that you then can put a float floor or ceramic tiles. Since my wife has a fixation with ceramic tiles, thats how we went.

Things I don't totally like about the solution:

** There isn't really any water-prooing done, other than paint and ceramic tiles

** There is no real assuance to the strength of the cement. Is it 5Mpa, 6Mpa or 7Mpa cement, each have different qualaties.

** The Planks should be pre-stressed with steel cable rather than what looks to be a thin mesh, therefore the load capacity would be significantly greater and you wouldn't need to add further reinforcing.

** There isn't really any need for the planks at all, they should be able to pour a concrete floor without that trouble. I think its lazy workmanship. But at the end of the day it works. When you see multi-story buildings and also some domestic buildings with suspended cement floors, the builder forms the area, adds the reinforcing, Vibrates the cement, and finishes the top.

Hope that helps a bit more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the great info. I agree with you that it seems a bit bizarre but if it works then hoooooray! As for the water proofing, a propery constructed tile floor will be waterproof with minimal maintenance....so long as it slopes the right way and that the edges are properly sealed. Many roofs in Vietnam are flat and done in tile and they don't leak.

[stevehaigh]

its not much good owning the house, if the land its stood on isn,t yours !

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But, from what I've read, some do just that.

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If push comes to shove you could have the house dismantled and build somewhere else. I know this sounds ridiculous but Thai people do this. In my family a piece of land was sold and the family member whose house was there just dismantled the house and rebuilt down the road on another family owned piece of land. It was not a big deal to them at all.

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actually, i designed my house mostly out of wood, party so i could sell the wood if the khee hits the pat-lom on this whole 49/51% company thing.

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I saw the drawing of your house and it does appear that the upper portion is wood. Is the deck on the open air top deck wood? And if so how will you keep rain water from seeping through to the floor below?

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roll down canvas screens around the perimiter.

[chownah]

roll down canvas screens around the perimiter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! Have you designed this so that if a mistake is made and there is some water entering even if its just at the perimeter it won't cause disaster? I think I'd be uneasy having my books, papers, computer, electronics etc being kept dry with this system.....not that it wouldn't work but it would just take one mistake to really cause a problem. You've probably thought of this already, just wondering if you have any other features planned for a possible mishap....

[roscoe]

its not much good owning the house, if the land its stood on isn,t yours !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But, from what I've read, some do just that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If push comes to shove you could have the house dismantled and build somewhere else. I know this sounds ridiculous but Thai people do this. In my family a piece of land was sold and the family member whose house was there just dismantled the house and rebuilt down the road on another family owned piece of land. It was not a big deal to them at all.

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I have seen Thai real estate agent web sites that actually advertise houses for removal ie,have house will travel (note not demolition)

(Hey mattnich, I thought where changeing your avatar?)

Edited May 12, 2005 by roscoe

[udon]

The Hobby Scenario.

I'm growing a shedload of cuttings in my backyard for my garden.

I'm caught redhanded.

Verdict?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bump !

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You can do your time in the shed Johnny

[udon]

Where are the 2 main sponsors when we need a response?

[stevehaigh]

roll down canvas screens around the perimiter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! Have you designed this so that if a mistake is made and there is some water entering even if its just at the perimeter it won't cause disaster? I think I'd be uneasy having my books, papers, computer, electronics etc being kept dry with this system.....not that it wouldn't work but it would just take one mistake to really cause a problem. You've probably thought of this already, just wondering if you have any other features planned for a possible mishap....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have a 1.5 meter overhanging roof which will help a bit, but yes, i have to rely on the screens to keep the inside dry. they will be motorized so one button press and everything closes. i may experiment with linking it to a rain sensor but i'm not sure how reliable that will be.

i looked into wooden folding doors but i think that will be very expensive, and be a pain to open and close.

[chownah]

roll down canvas screens around the perimiter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! Have you designed this so that if a mistake is made and there is some water entering even if its just at the perimeter it won't cause disaster? I think I'd be uneasy having my books, papers, computer, electronics etc being kept dry with this system.....not that it wouldn't work but it would just take one mistake to really cause a problem. You've probably thought of this already, just wondering if you have any other features planned for a possible mishap....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have a 1.5 meter overhanging roof which will help a bit, but yes, i have to rely on the screens to keep the inside dry. they will be motorized so one button press and everything closes. i may experiment with linking it to a rain sensor but i'm not sure how reliable that will be.

i looked into wooden folding doors but i think that will be very expensive, and be a pain to open and close.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the problem occurs when the wind is blowing hard. The overhangs will do nothing as the wind will blow right through bringing rain with it. When our house was partly constructed and the roof was up but the walls weren't there was a windy rain storm and the water went everywhere inside the house and I expect being on an island you will have even stronger winds and more often.

Eventually your motorized system will probably fail....mechanical things alway do...it seems. So...a storm is coming and you push the button to close up the deck...but nothing happens. What will you do? This is where the closeable windows start to look really good. If a window starts to deteriorate to the point where it will not close, you will be able to see the deterioration and fix it before failure. With mechanical and electronic devices there is often no warning before failure. If using windows then even if there is a failure it will probably be on one wilndow only so damage will be small. For windows you could even have some plywood pieces already cut and stored close at hand so you could nail the hole shut if a window would malfunction. Actually this might be a good contingency for your design too......have some precut panel.....maybe you could even install them on hinges....hinged at the top of the opening... so you could manually drop them down for emergencies....sort of like having a window back up system....not to be confused with a Windows back up system.....courtesy of Bill Gates!

[stevehaigh]

I think the problem occurs when the wind is blowing hard.  The overhangs will do nothing as the wind will blow right through bringing rain with it.  When our house was partly constructed and the roof was up but the walls weren't there was a windy rain storm and the water went everywhere inside the house and I expect being on an island you will have even stronger winds and more often.

Eventually your motorized system will probably fail....mechanical things alway do...it seems.  So...a storm is coming and you push the button to close up the deck...but nothing happens.  What will you do?  This is where the closeable windows start to look really good.  If a window starts to deteriorate to the point where it will not close, you will be able to see the deterioration and fix it before failure.  With mechanical and electronic devices there is often no warning before failure.  If using windows then even if there is a failure it will probably be on one wilndow only so damage will be small.  For windows you could even have some plywood pieces already cut and stored close at hand so you could nail the hole shut if a window would malfunction.  Actually this might be a good contingency for your design too......have some precut panel.....maybe you could even install them on hinges....hinged at the top of the opening... so you could manually drop them down for emergencies....sort of like having a window back up system....not to be confused with a Windows back up system.....courtesy of Bill Gates!

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the emergency wood panels is not a bad idea, and i do agree that the motorized system needs a manual backup. we always loose power here in a storm anyhow, but usually after the storm has started.

[udon]

Hmm, still zero response from the legal eagles.

Maybe this topic should be moved to "Thai visas, residency and work permits"

Mods?

Edited May 13, 2005 by udon

[cobra]

My motto is better do it correctly myself rather than pay someone else and having to start over or correct it in the end...

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... alternate mottos:

.. why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over, ...

.. why is there never enough money to do it right, but always enough to do it over, ...

[PETERTHEEATER]

Boy oh boy! Reading this topic from the top it sure has drifted.

The starting question was whether it is legal for a 'farang' to do work in 'his' own house.

Discussion followed and agreed that the farang should not be depriving a Thai national of work.

My definition of work is expending energy. My definition of employment is expending energy for remuneration, i.e pay or salary.

Now, if I put up some shelves in 'my' house, (DIY) would that really be breaking the law?

If I was asked by my neighbour to put up some shelves in her house (shelves supplied by her) but for no remuneration would that also be deemed as 'work' or 'employment'?

[chownah]

Boy oh boy! Reading this topic from the top it sure has drifted.

The starting question was whether it is legal for a 'farang' to do work in 'his' own house.

Discussion followed and agreed that the farang should not be depriving a Thai national of work.

My definition of work is expending energy. My definition of employment is expending energy for remuneration, i.e pay or salary.

Now, if I put up some shelves in 'my' house, (DIY) would that really be breaking the law?

If I was asked by my neighbour to put up some shelves in her house (shelves supplied by her) but for no remuneration would that also be deemed as 'work' or 'employment'?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, you have discovered the main question which divides this thread into two side...those that think DIY IS work requiring a work permit...and those that think DIY IS NOT work requiring a work permit. Personally, I started in the IS NOT column but have been convinced that maybe I'm wrong. Since (evidently) the ESO (Employment Services Office...I think) was the agency that required tsunami volunteer to get work permits, I think they are the ones with the answer. I'm too busy doing DIY that I don't have time to go ask them this question and I'm trying to find someone with the time to go in person and ask them....will you volunteer?

[Jai Dee]

Legal or not, I'll be digging in my own back yard garden... pruning the trees... mowing the lawn... potting plants... growing cuttings... cleaning the pool... etc. until such time someone official taps me on the shoulder and tells me not to!

[chownah]

Legal or not, I'll be digging in my own back yard garden... pruning the trees... mowing the lawn... potting plants... growing cuttings... cleaning the pool... etc. until such time someone official taps me on the shoulder and tells me not to! 

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You are such a rebel!!!

[PETERTHEEATER]

Sorry chownah, like you I am a DIY man and have little inclination to run to the Labour Office and ask if it's OK.

When I was clearing my personal effects through Customs (BKK Airport Cargo) the lady officer told me that I could not import my model aircraft parts (uncompleted scratch build project) because models were not allowed. when I told her that it is my hobby and would keep me occupied in retirement she said that hobbies are not allowed.

Happily, after 6 hours of debate (no kidding) she weakened and approved everything. Thinking I had won the day, I then realised that it was shift change on Friday night and she was going off on her weekend!

So, perhaps anything that you do with you hands is illegal without a work permit so watch where you put them!

[AndyW]

So, perhaps anything that you do with you hands is illegal without a work permit so watch where you put them!

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Situations vacant : ASS WIPER

I'm terrified to go to the loo. Am I denying a job to someone? Get serious some of you folks. If I want to mow the lawn, am I denying a job to a local? I don't think so - I'm giving my wife a bit of time to do something else 555!!!

[udon]

Sorry chownah, like you I am a DIY man and have little inclination to run to the Labour Office and ask if it's OK.

When I was clearing my personal effects through Customs (BKK Airport Cargo) the lady officer told me that I could not import my model aircraft parts (uncompleted scratch build project) because models were not allowed. when I told her that it is my hobby and would keep me occupied in retirement she said that hobbies are not allowed.

Happily, after 6 hours of debate (no kidding) she weakened and approved everything. Thinking I had won the day, I then realised that it was shift change on Friday night and she was going off on her weekend!

So, perhaps anything that you do with you hands is illegal without a work permit so watch where you put them!

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To make her argument look even more ridiculous, photography is a hobby, would she tell all camera toting tourists they need a WP whilest in Thailand???

The Idiots!

[Gary A]

I believe in keeping a low profile. Out of sight is out of mind. I had a two meter high block wall built around the property so it is difficult to see anything I may or may not be doing. LOL!

[udon]

Nothing from sunbelly or Indo Steve, I guess they don't know about hobbies

[lampard10]

56 replies and rising so far. And still no-one has answered the original querie. It's been divided with what people have done and what they havn't done,not if they were allowed to do it in the first place. Just like the 2-5 closing. Thread went on for months in 5 different formats and nobody answered the question.

[chownah]

56 replies and rising so far. And still no-one has answered the original querie. It's been divided with what people have done and what they havn't done,not if they were allowed to do it in the first place. Just like the 2-5 closing. Thread went on for months in 5 different formats and nobody answered the question.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The ESO was the office that determined that the tsunami volunteers needed work permits so it seems that they are the ones in the know. I have been trying to get someone to go into their local ESO and ask specifically if working on your own home requires a work permit or if helping a family member or friend on their home requires a work permit......I think its as simple as that. Do you have time to do this? I don't have time now as I'm too busy working on my home and soon it will be time to start preparing for the rice season. If I have time later I'll try to do it but honestly right now I'm swamped.

[Ajarn]

All you really need is a phone...

[Ajarn]

Hobbies are allowed here, and are not considered 'working' in most cases, according to the Labour folks in Phuket. If you doubt me, go and look for their response to the query in Phuket Gazette.... They even listed two phone numbers to call with a question about that, specifically.

Also, no reason to get annoyed when people here are trying to help in their own limited way to a Thai legal question

[Gary A]

Has it occurred to you that you are in Thailand and that there are NO definitive answers?

56 replies and rising so far. And still no-one has answered the original querie. It's been divided with what people have done and what they havn't done,not if they were allowed to do it in the first place. Just like the 2-5 closing. Thread went on for months in 5 different formats and nobody answered the question.

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