51 Thais Detained In Largest US Visa Fraud Scheme In History

[webfact]

51 Thais detained in largest US visa fraud scheme in history

Fifty-one Thai students have been detained by authorities and face deportation after a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) raid on a Miami, Florida English language school.

The 51 Thais were among 81 F-1 student visa holders detained when ICE officials raided the Florida Language Institute, in what the agency is describing as the largest visa fraud investigation in its history.

In addition to detaining its students, the school was closed and its 58-year-old director and owner, Lydia Menocal and a 75-year-old employee, Ofelia Macia, were detained and each charged with conspiring to commit an offense against the U.S., with Menocal also charged with falsifying immigration documents.

According to the indictments, Menocal and Macia failed to report to authorities as required, that the vast majority of the school's foreign national students were not attending classes regularly.

Thani Thongphakdi, deputy director general of the Thai Foreign Affairs Ministry Information Department, confirmed the detention of the 51 Thais and said the school they were attending is now closed.

Mr. Thani said all 51 have been charged with violating US immigration law and formally remanded in custody pending a hearing by an immigration judge who will decide their fate, though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily.

Mr. Thani also advised other Thais who may be violating immigration laws in similar ways but have not been detained to return to Thailand, after first contacting the Thai embassy to avoid possible arrest.

In an unrelated matter a group of 20 Thai workers, 18 of them women, have been ordered out of Poland after they were arrested on February 11 for working outside of their permitted zone.

The group were arrested in Zielona Gora, western Poland, working on a mushroom farm, but their work permits were for working in a food processing plant. A Lubuskie court that the 20 must be deported within three months.

-- thaivisa.com 2010-03-05

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[Credo]

The last time I was in Miami, I didn't notice anyone speaking English there. Kansas might be a better choice.

I hope that if the Thais are innocent, the charges are dropped. It sounds like a greater burden of the problem may lie with the school itself.

[MisterMan]

Sounds like they thought they could get away with breaking the rules like they do here. Wow voluntary deportation? Perhaps the US should treat "illegals" the way the Thai Govt does here. Jail, fine, more fine, court cases...

[slapout]

With all the English language schools located in Thailand, why travel half way around the world to learn English? If the students are not attending class, the question of real intent is certainly there. As mentioned above the English language is probably the second or possibility third language of Miami. Education visas to study only language, anywhere, appears to be abused in several countries, which are popular tourist destinations.

[moskito]

though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily

wow, thats noble,

..wonder which penalty for the same case here in Thailand if Farangs did the same thing here

[toptuan]

With all the English language schools located in Thailand, why travel half way around the world to learn English? If the students are not attending class, the question of real intent is certainly there.

Wake up and smell the dollars...

[jayjayjayjay]

Tough day for Thai's working overseas! Moons are poorly aligned!

[granuaile]

though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily

wow, thats noble,

..wonder which penalty for the same case here in Thailand if Farangs did the same thing here

There are a lot of farang doing much the same thing here with relative impunity. Remember the hue and cry when immigration did a trial run of testing the language skills of students in the language schools here. I don't blame the language schools here, but let's face while there are a lot - I hope the majority - who really want to learn Thai there is a sizable number who do not and are doing the exact same thing these Thai students are accused of doing in America. So let's be fair here. Thailand is pretty danged lenient. A Thai student I was acquainted with in the US said it was really unfair the hurdles she had to go through to get there compared to someone getting an ED visa here, and she was right.

So let's be fair. The Thai authorities are pretty tolerant.

[MyphuketLife]

Sounds like they thought they could get away with breaking the rules like they do here. Wow voluntary deportation? Perhaps the US should treat "illegals" the way the Thai Govt does here. Jail, fine, more fine, court cases...

Why if they leave on their own, the govt does not have to pay for housing them in jail, and all the lawyers involved... Their is no way the fines would even equal what it costs the govt to deport some one, and most of the illegals are probably poor, so even if fined its not like the govt could collect the funds. Letting them leave on their own is best for all involved.

Maybe the Thai govt could follow the same logic?

[Somrak]

' ... Jail, fine, more fine, court cases...' ; and more jail, if the can not pay there ticket home.

[kmj]

you only have to look at some adverts here... unlimited stay in Thailand, Free ED visa.

nothing about the school or course... same-same

Just they got caught.

[voracious]

... in other news, hundreds of Florida massage parlors and Thai restaurants and close shop due to staffing shortages...

(just kidding guys...)

[rkidlad]

though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily

wow, thats noble,

..wonder which penalty for the same case here in Thailand if Farangs did the same thing here

There are a lot of farang doing much the same thing here with relative impunity. Remember the hue and cry when immigration did a trial run of testing the language skills of students in the language schools here. I don't blame the language schools here, but let's face while there are a lot - I hope the majority - who really want to learn Thai there is a sizable number who do not and are doing the exact same thing these Thai students are accused of doing in America. So let's be fair here. Thailand is pretty danged lenient. A Thai student I was acquainted with in the US said it was really unfair the hurdles she had to go through to get there compared to someone getting an ED visa here, and she was right.

So let's be fair. The Thai authorities are pretty tolerant.

Yes, it can be very hard for Thais to get visas in countries like USA. But there is a reason for that. USA welcomes geuine visa applications. But if a country like the USA was as lax as Thailand is, there would be boat loads of people going over to America for work.

I can easily get an education visa here if I want, not study and stay for a year. But what do I do if I have no money? Work? Where? In a restaurant, 7-11, drive a taxi etc? There is work here but it's far and few between. I could always teach English but if it's money I need, I'm better off staying in my home country and working.

I feel sorry for genuine Thai students who have such difficulties getting a visa to study abroad. But there is a reason for it.

[moskito]

though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily

wow, thats noble,

..wonder which penalty for the same case here in Thailand if Farangs did the same thing here

There are a lot of farang doing much the same thing here with relative impunity. Remember the hue and cry when immigration did a trial run of testing the language skills of students in the language schools here. I don't blame the language schools here, but let's face while there are a lot - I hope the majority - who really want to learn Thai there is a sizable number who do not and are doing the exact same thing these Thai students are accused of doing in America. So let's be fair here. Thailand is pretty danged lenient. A Thai student I was acquainted with in the US said it was really unfair the hurdles she had to go through to get there compared to someone getting an ED visa here, and she was right.

So let's be fair. The Thai authorities are pretty tolerant.

so lets hope then for the future they start checking more on these "thai-language-students" sawadee krap and khop khun krap after a year should not be enough anymore, dschok dee

[orchis]

What English schools in Bangkok employing farang here on tourist visa and not providing WP.

Edited March 5, 2010 by orchis

[Payboy]

Perhaps the US should treat "illegals" the way the Thai Govt does here. Jail, fine, more fine, court cases...

Or set adrift on a boat with no rations.

[connel707]

though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily

wow, thats noble,

..wonder which penalty for the same case here in Thailand if Farangs did the same thing here

Ain`t you the clever one Moskito... its 25000bahts for a 15 month visa and 2 x I hour classes a week... keeps you here all legal... most of our Nigerian and African brothers are using this method.... it works well and 100% legal ....Almost.. and they say good "crack" at these classes... haha

[connel707]

What English schools in Bangkok employing farang here on tourist visa and not providing WP.

Almost all........what hole do you live down.?

[TheWalkingMan]

There are a lot of farang doing much the same thing here with relative impunity. Remember the hue and cry when immigration did a trial run of testing the language skills of students in the language schools here. I don't blame the language schools here, but let's face while there are a lot - I hope the majority - who really want to learn Thai there is a sizable number who do not and are doing the exact same thing these Thai students are accused of doing in America. So let's be fair here. Thailand is pretty danged lenient. A Thai student I was acquainted with in the US said it was really unfair the hurdles she had to go through to get there compared to someone getting an ED visa here, and she was right.

So let's be fair. The Thai authorities are pretty tolerant.

granuaile,

I think you are slightly off... The main complaint was immigration deciding if your language skills were high enough and nothing was mentioned about attendance. In the USA, immigration seems to be complaining that the students did not attend class as a requirement of the visa. There is a huge difference between immigration checking on attendance and checking language proficiency.

Take it a step further. Person A person already has the language skills and gets an Ed. Visa but never attends class. He renews his visa as he passes immigrations "test." Person B regularly attends class but, for whatever reason, cannot pass immigrations "test" and is asked to leave Thailand. I ask you, is that fair?

Perhaps the Ed. Visa should be changed to a minimum of 20 hours a week with enforced attendance. And if the schools cannot keep the students then their education license is yanked. BTW this was the exact scenario in Japan where at some schools many of the students rarely if ever went to class and just faded into the illegal worker society.

TheWalkingMan

[RabC]

It had to be a scam, why go to the USA to learn ENGLISH even the natives slaughter the language.

[thaibkk]

you feel the retailiation comming ? harder to get work permit here in thailand ?

i wish they investigate every ED visa... as most foreigner also do not attend

and also close the schools providing ED as they only interested in collecting their fees

[RKASA]

It had to be a scam, why go to the USA to learn ENGLISH even the natives slaughter the language.

Real American ant gotta speak no foreign English, we all got that freedom thing.

[teacherpaul]

Not really.

Take a look at the laws really carefully.

Foreigners cannot ever own land here, not even enough just to have a small house to live with their families.

Foreigners who want to own a business can only own 49%.

For non-teaching jobs, for every foreign work permit, there has to be 4 Thai staff.

If you want to start your own business, you need all that, plus 2,000,000 Baht in capital.

You don't need any of this in the UK or USA.

Many foreigners are shunted out of the country like cattle, every 90 days.

When you look at the big picture, in the West, it's harder for a Thai to get in, but easier once they're in.

In Thailand, it's easier for a foreigner to get in, but not to stay.

though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily

wow, thats noble,

..wonder which penalty for the same case here in Thailand if Farangs did the same thing here

There are a lot of farang doing much the same thing here with relative impunity. Remember the hue and cry when immigration did a trial run of testing the language skills of students in the language schools here. I don't blame the language schools here, but let's face while there are a lot - I hope the majority - who really want to learn Thai there is a sizable number who do not and are doing the exact same thing these Thai students are accused of doing in America. So let's be fair here. Thailand is pretty danged lenient. A Thai student I was acquainted with in the US said it was really unfair the hurdles she had to go through to get there compared to someone getting an ED visa here, and she was right.

So let's be fair. The Thai authorities are pretty tolerant.

[scorecard]

It had to be a scam, why go to the USA to learn ENGLISH even the natives slaughter the language.

Maybe this is more complex than what at first appears, however the question of why go to the US just to study English is a good one.

If a student /parents of the student really want an offshore English school then no need to look past Singapore, excellent schools and just a 2 hour flight away.

My son attended an Singapore English instutution for about 6 months, his English improved very quickly and I was quite impressed with the final results, way beyond my expectation for a six months course.

[JackSterling]

These people have no morels and no ethics in which to live by..they parents never had them either..

We have to obey the rules here to stay here.. And those Thais want to NOT do the same there..

It's double edge sword of wisdom..for them.. a two face group of people for sure..sur pop..

[thaibkk]

about farang in thailand...

why does this website not start a pression group @/for the governemnt...

supposed to be the biggest expat community, right ?

[ThaiFelix]

It had to be a scam, why go to the USA to learn ENGLISH even the natives slaughter the language.

Real American ant gotta speak no foreign English, we all got that freedom thing.

English in the USA? All the ones I have known said they spoke American!! And for some reason said they were all Canadian.

[crocodilexp]

Wow voluntary deportation? Perhaps the US should treat "illegals" the way the Thai Govt does here. Jail, fine, more fine, court cases...

That pleasure would cost more to you and me, Mr. Taxpayer.

USA welcomes geuine visa applications.

Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. Obviously, you never dealt with the run-around of getting a U.S. visa. My college friend, a Russian PhD student, missed few months off his studies (all paid for) because the idiots could not approve his visa on time. I know wives of U.S. citizens who needed on the order of 2+ years to get a visa (even if married for 10+ years). It's not pretty.

[aussimike]

The last time I was in Miami, I didn't notice anyone speaking English there. Kansas might be a better choice.

I hope that if the Thais are innocent, the charges are dropped. It sounds like a greater burden of the problem may lie with the school itself.

If u read the report again its the students who are at fault - in typical Thai sabai student fashion not attending clases as required - the US like Australia has a minimum attendance of 80% and if the students dont attend they can face deportion = yes the school was in er for this also but perhaps they were just beening kind to the students = sure that someone dobbed them in to the immmigration dept -- why raid if they were not alerted to this problem --

[ScubaBuddha]

Yet another case of Thai's being Thai outside Thailand and paying dearly for it, and setting records no less.