Solution For Double Pricing?

[shepsel]

We ain't going to change the Thai mentality in a million years by making rational and logical statements about dual pricing.

If there is an establishment with two prices, I show them my Thai drivers license, and if they insist on charging me the higher price, I walk away, and they get nothing from me. No sense arguing with them--they are unlearnable!

[robblok]

We ain't going to change the Thai mentality in a million years by making rational and logical statements about dual pricing.

If there is an establishment with two prices, I show them my Thai drivers license, and if they insist on charging me the higher price, I walk away, and they get nothing from me. No sense arguing with them--they are unlearnable!

That is what i do in most cases too.

[Metapod]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

Not all places. Try that at Koh Samed. Quite a few places that will not budge at all.

[kropotkin]

Dual pricing has nothing to do with paying taxes.

Everybody, even tourists, pays VAT (sales tax).

Almost nobody pays income tax (not the poor thai, not the rich thai, only the small middleclass thai).

So let us stop bringing tax into the discussion.

[chakatee]

"If there is an establishment with two prices, I show them my Thai drivers license, and if they insist on charging me the higher price, I walk away, and they get nothing from me. No sense arguing with them--they are unlearnable!"

They are not unlearnable, they are smart ... for every "you who walks away" they may have 10, 20, ... others (the bus with Russians and Japanese) who do pay the higher price ... so in stead of having your 'lower profit price' 1 time more they have the 'high profit price' (same cost - higher revenue) 10-, 20-, ...fold.

So why would they change their business model to make less profit??

If I sell T-shirts (e.g. cost price 50THB) and I know this Thai is only willing to give 100THB for it, I can sell it to him but if I know that you (or these 10, 20, ... others) are willing to pay 500THB for it (and still think it is a bargain), why would I not try to sell it at 500 to those? even when I am taking the risk of a few "walking away"? Selling 1 at 500THB and I can afford myself 8 who walk away ...

In the end there's only 1 loser, you as you didn't get to see that park and didn't get to wear my lousy t-shirt ... out of principle...

The only thing to blame (maybe) here in Thailand is the way they do it, trying to hide it ... in many countries it is much more in the open and widely accepted.

[robblok]

"If there is an establishment with two prices, I show them my Thai drivers license, and if they insist on charging me the higher price, I walk away, and they get nothing from me. No sense arguing with them--they are unlearnable!"

They are not unlearnable, they are smart ... for every "you who walks away" they may have 10, 20, ... others (the bus with Russians and Japanese) who do pay the higher price ... so in stead of having your 'lower profit price' 1 time more they have the 'high profit price' (same cost - higher revenue) 10-, 20-, ...fold.

So why would they change their business model to make less profit??

If I sell T-shirts (e.g. cost price 50THB) and I know this Thai is only willing to give 100THB for it, I can sell it to him but if I know that you (or these 10, 20, ... others) are willing to pay 500THB for it (and still think it is a bargain), why would I not try to sell it at 500 to those? even when I am taking the risk of a few "walking away"? Selling 1 at 500THB and I can afford myself 8 who walk away ...

In the end there's only 1 loser, you as you didn't get to see that park and didn't get to wear my lousy t-shirt ... out of principle...

The only thing to blame (maybe) here in Thailand is the way they do it, trying to hide it ... in many countries it is much more in the open and widely accepted.

Im not really the looser here, because i just did not think it was the right value. You lost out on a little bit of money but if more people learn about this you stand to loose more. However because most tourist are here for one time it will probably wont happen.

On the brighter side the people at bungsamran fishing park were smarter then this and just said people with a Thai drivers license can come in for Thai price the rest pays the more expensive price. This is a win win scenario. They still get to rip off the tourist and now they get more expats who previously would boycot them.

So your logic does not always work.

[RickThai]

Last November while visiting my in-laws, I got my BIL (who's a cop) to drive me, my wife, and SIL to a National Park about 60 kms east of Kamphangpet (sorry I don't remember the name). This was on a weekday and the park was in a 'relaxed' mode. There was no one manning the entrance, so my BIL just drove in and stopped at the main HQ. I was standing around outside and in plain sight. The park staff told us to on on in for 'free', since there was no one around to cause trouble (meaning visiting Thais or higher ups).

Thais are very easy-going in their everyday life. Price negotiation and rules are enforced when and if the mood strikes. People who make a living in high volumne tourists areas, quickly learn that 'falongs' will pay (and can afford) much higher prices than many locals, so they charge what they can get away with.

They don't overcharge rich Thais, because they know the rich and/or powerfull Thais can ruin their lives without too much effort.

I take a pretty passive approach to prices in Thailand, if I can read the price in Thai, I always point to the price and offer that amount. Most times the vendor will agree. If not, and if it is too high IMO, I just smile and say "Mai pen rai, krab and walk away and try another vendor.

The way I look at it, is that they own the product or service, and can charge as much or as little as they want, but only I have the power to decide whether to buy it or not. Also, I always make sure that we agree on price before I get into a Taxi/tuk tuk, etc. or indicate that I'm interested in some fruit or something.

I once saw a tourist (in Phuket) get his face smashed in, after indicating that he wanted a mango, and then after the mango was sliced and put in a bag for the guy, he decided the price was too high and tried to walk away.

So I try and be very careful, not to let the vendor start cutting or wrapping something up, before we both aggree on the price.

Just my thoughts.

RickThai

[JemJem]

This type of threads can be real annoying for me in that there are quite a few 'apologist' folks in here...they seem to get some kind of satisfaction from foreigners' being charged more than (in some cases A LOT more than) Thais at various places.

Jem

[WarpSpeed]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

Not all places. Try that at Koh Samed. Quite a few places that will not budge at all.

See the post above your above quoted post for the simple solution... No need to patronize businesses that gouge their customers..JFYI I've still never had it happen it to me since taking that approach. Now, maybe I'll just stay away from Koh Samed if what you say is true still plenty of other nice places to visit in Thailand, my life doesn't hinge on me visiting Koh Samed.

[RickThai]

This type of threads can be real annoying for me in that there are quite a few 'apologist' folks in here...they seem to get some kind of satisfaction from foreigners' being charged more than (in some cases A LOT more than) Thais at various places.

Jem

Are the people you refer to as "aplogist folks" displaying satisfaction or just acceptance of the reality of the situation?

For that matter, some people pay 'full price' for automobiles, air fares, even their taxes. But here are alot of people who never pay "full price". So is that a form of double pricing?

Regards,

RickThai

[orpheus454]

Dual pricing is illegal - period - there is nothing in the legislation that I know about, or have heard about, that permitts or allows the government to practise dual pricing (i.e. I haven't read the legislation, but I'd be very suprized if there was a clause that exempted government).

National parks are government - yes, right at the top of the pyramid I guess they are, but they are left alone as independant entities to get on with the job, and my guess is that the dual pricing national parks practise, would, if it were challenged in a court, be found just as illegal as any other dual pricing practise.

In reality the only way to put a stop to it is to launch a campaign that gets all foreigners to turn there backs and walk away from anything that is dual priced - then you'll see just how quickly "dual pricing" comes to a stop. The problem is, I just can't see much success in getting everyone to participate. As CobraSnakenecktie points out: Thailand is home ground to many illegal practises which the authorities tolerate and turn a blind eye to.

What legislation or common law has it that "dual pricing is illegal"?

[orpheus454]

Would everyone please just do me a favour and distinguish between dual pricing based on residency and dual pricing based on citizenship/ethnicity?

The first is legal and practised world wide. The second is very illegal and practised only in Thailand.

No. Australian citizens are entitled to a sizable discount on their tertiary education fees if they pay up front.

Others are not.

You're talkin' crap

To date, there has only been 1 time when I have gotten into a fight at the entrance to the national park and eventually turned around and went home, but that 1 time was enough to turn me off to going to the national parks for good.

As a Thai resident, I am entitled to the Thai price. Period. End of story. If you disagree then you are simply wrong.

Great negotiation skills there, bro....!

The only time I have not made a terrible stink about this is on the 3rd class train from Hualampong. Even I refuse to get into a fist fight over 5 baht, but it still annoys me that they can get away with blatantly illegal and immoral acts.

Cite legal reasoning, please...

[Tomtomtom69]

I think gregb is implying that ethnicity is primarily used to determine who should get the local price and who shouldn't. Therefore, your point (orpheus54) of Australian citizens getting a discount for upfront tertiary payments is invalid; any Australian citizen is eligible for this, they don't have to be white, they can also be ethnically Chinese with an Australian passport. He may have added the word citizenship in there, but ethnicity is implied alongside citizenship. Indeed, many Thais have trouble differentiating between the two. I know, I've heard some Thai friends discuss this amongst themselves and could barely reach a conclusion! In fact, I had to explain to them the difference.

Indeed official dual pricing is not widely practiced by some countries such as China (anymore); walk into any tourist attraction in China and if eligible, they will give you a discount for being a senior citizen, a student or of another eligible group. And no, you won't be charged more than locals in China. Indeed, why would they bother? The chance of charging a foreigner an extra say 100 Yuan wouldn't bring any financial benefit if only 3 foreigners a month visit those attractions, and yes, vast stretches of China rarely see any foreigners, it's not like SE Asia at all. Notice the difference with Thailand! First of all, I have rarely seen discounts for elderly citizens here in Thailand (for tourist attractions), and if they do exist, foreigners are definately not eligible. So much for respecting the elderly.

[saraburioz]

What I'm curious about: what is really the requirement to get a 'Thai price'?

Recently I've been to a temple site and was charged the 'foreigner price' even though I

produced a work permit AND a driver's license.

Is this regulation somewhere written in the laws ('not > 50% Thai blood = foreigner price')

or completely up to the 'friendly' woman or man who sits in the ticket booth?

Is it based on residency, paying taxes, skin or hair color? Looking Thai or being able to do a wai?

I just wonder under which circumstances I could INSIST on getting the Thai price,

though my guts somehow tell me I can't

Can you speak Thai?

I've found that when people speak Thai they get in these places for the Thai price.

Frankly, anyone who hasn't taken the time to learn and respect the country they live in should have to pay more.

[bangkokburning]

Abrak - Thais dont pay any more taxes than I do. Most Thai's do not pay income tax and I surely pay more VAT annually than 90% of the Thai population - and I live a very spartan life.

Farang support the national park system. That is an ugly fact.

I love it - ONE Khmer temple in Issarn B400 (1-2 hours)

3 days in Angkor Wat and surrounding temples B1100

Thailand has no clue how insulting this is. I live in the NPs six months a year.

Koh Surin and Similan keep the entire park system afloat - farangs.

[hehehoho]

Great to see the clever Thais use such a system to better their lives and developing country.

I have a DL and speak basic Thai and have always been given the local Thai price, it's nice to tip or buy the assistant a small drink or something afterwards.

Edited July 5, 2011 by hehehoho

[KeyserSoze01]

As a Thai resident, I am entitled to the Thai price. Period. End of story. If you disagree then you are simply wrong.

Good luck with that!!!!

[tropo]

In reality the only way to put a stop to it is to launch a campaign that gets all foreigners to turn there backs and walk away from anything that is dual priced - then you'll see just how quickly "dual pricing" comes to a stop.

Even if this went down and you could convince foreigners to walk away and they stopped dual pricing, they'd probably fix the price at the higher foreigner price in places which mainly cater to tourists.

[wolf5370]

This type of threads can be real annoying for me in that there are quite a few 'apologist' folks in here...they seem to get some kind of satisfaction from foreigners' being charged more than (in some cases A LOT more than) Thais at various places.

Jem

Are the people you refer to as "aplogist folks" displaying satisfaction or just acceptance of the reality of the situation?

For that matter, some people pay 'full price' for automobiles, air fares, even their taxes. But here are alot of people who never pay "full price". So is that a form of double pricing?

Regards,

RickThai

And the price they got was based on their skin colour, eh? No one is against haggling a better price or getting a promiotional price etc, but when Asian complexion price A and white/black/mixed price 10 X A.

License and speaking Thai works sometimes, and other times not. At CM Zoo for example, when the baby panda was born, took my kids along. At the entry gate booth I talked Thai, woman asked if I lived here (in Thai) and I said yes - so she charged me normal price. At the "see the panda" booth, they wanted to charge me and the kids farang price, and I moaned (after all my kids are Thai nationals) - in the end, I paid farnag price for me and Thai for the kids. Never lost my temper, never got angry, and left with a joke and a shred giggle all around.

Took my parents (over from Spain where they too are exats) to the Samkampaeng hot springs. I quesed (OK - queue was one other person ahead of me - Thai). I told them in Thai, and paid Thai prices for me and the kids and farang for my parents - no arguements from them and fair enough to me and my parents (they accept they are touriusts and the price is no problem for them) - its quite cheap anyway!

A good one was a Doi Suthep - went with about 5 Thai kids and 8 Thai adults and me. Cachier at the desk at first wanted to charge me farang, but Thai adults said "no" (I was not at the counter, but standing amongst the little group not hiding) - this was at the box car entrance (old people with us could not do the stairs). Followed a big queue of Chinese tourists, (and obviously so - very loud spoken Chinese, large cameras and Chinese clothing) - at the lift like door to the box car, the woman allows all the Chinese people in and all my Thai group and bars me - I show my ticket again - she ignores my Thai (pretending she can not understand me at all - takes my ticket and marches off to the cachiers - this holds up the box car - comes back about 2 minutes later (box car still waiting) and demands another 50B - extreamely rude -and I told her so - in Thai - I paid, but only because of the group I was with. The Chinese all had Thai tickets (obvious from their colour and my Thai friends asked to see their tickets they didn't speak Thai at all either). So, certainly about skin colour there and nothing else. At the top of the stairs - if you don't use the box car, they pounce on any white skin and make them pay their 50B - any Asians are ignored - Thais, Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, and so on - many obviously tourists too. I personally hate going there - only go as part of groups when obliged - I think its very overrated and many more beautiful temples in CM - let alone Thailand as a whole! ...only one I have ever been to that charges btw.

[bangkokburning]

Gotta love fees to get into working temples - about as ugly as it gets.

Prices are going up not down in the NPs. The prices for camping has not gone up yet (where I camp), but for all services considerably.

Koh Surin and Koh Similian two of the most expensive camping outings you can have in a third world country. Guaranteed. You will spend about B1500 pp daily on the cheap in Similan for a tent, daily snorkel boat, bad food and transport to/from island for about a week - easy. Surin not much better. Mind you now - the coral is all dead as of last year. Many, Many campers I know will not be back. They closed Surin early last year due to rain and get this - lack of campers!

[Wonderboy]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

the average Thai pays very little tax. At most, and on a generous day, an additional ฿20 added to a NP admission could be considered tax related. 10 times can't be justified. If taxation is a reasonable argument, why doesn't Singapore, Malaysis or Taiwan engage in such practice. Wait I know why, tourists are treated with respect.

The reason why singapore malaysia etc dont do it is because they are rich, developed countries (heck singapores average income is higher than most brits these days) they have the funds for their national parks.

So you think Thai national parks are funded by taxes? Give me a break. They are funded by the entry fees and as such should have the same prices for everyone. And for funded, how much "tax" money do you think it takes to man the ticket booth? That seems to be just about the only expense there is to "funding" most of the nature attractions in Thailand. Calling them attractions are often a travesty anyway. Getting charged 200B to see a waterfall, which really is a little stream falling two meters, is nothing but a tourist trap. Thais pay 10B for that, and even that is a rip off.

I would have no problem accepting dual prices on certain things that are truly funded by tax-money, but for commercial venues it is not acceptable.

WB

Edited July 6, 2011 by Wonderboy

[hehehoho]

Thailand is a developing country, it's great to see them come up with ways to improve their cash flow, especially with regards to luxury services and products, nobody needs to see a waterfall to live, it's a choice people make, if they are not happy with the cost of the service than they simply don't have to visit it. It's really rather simple.

[RubbaJohnny]

Gas the falangs?

Return Siam to true Thai and send foriegner back where he hail

[smokie36]

Gas the falangs?

Return Siam to true Thai and send foriegner back where he hail

Back in your cage Thaksin.

[smokie36]

If you are going to have double pricing then better get good at hiding the fact each and every time cos if I spot it my money stays in my pocket and as other posters have said I walk away.

Its not just Thailand this happens worldwide.

[remiss]

A good one was a Doi Suthep - went with about 5 Thai kids and 8 Thai adults and me. Cachier at the desk at first wanted to charge me farang, but Thai adults said "no" (I was not at the counter, but standing amongst the little group not hiding) - this was at the box car entrance (old people with us could not do the stairs). Followed a big queue of Chinese tourists, (and obviously so - very loud spoken Chinese, large cameras and Chinese clothing) - at the lift like door to the box car, the woman allows all the Chinese people in and all my Thai group and bars me - I show my ticket again - she ignores my Thai (pretending she can not understand me at all - takes my ticket and marches off to the cachiers - this holds up the box car - comes back about 2 minutes later (box car still waiting) and demands another 50B - extreamely rude -and I told her so - in Thai - I paid, but only because of the group I was with. The Chinese all had Thai tickets (obvious from their colour and my Thai friends asked to see their tickets they didn't speak Thai at all either). So, certainly about skin colour there and nothing else. At the top of the stairs - if you don't use the box car, they pounce on any white skin and make them pay their 50B - any Asians are ignored - Thais, Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, and so on - many obviously tourists too. I personally hate going there - only go as part of groups when obliged - I think its very overrated and many more beautiful temples in CM - let alone Thailand as a whole! ...only one I have ever been to that charges btw.

When I was there I remember having to actually _want_ to pay the farang price (no charge for thai people) at the temple. Was a completely separate charge booth not connected with entrance, nor any ticket checking anywhere .. I didn't see the box car that you are mentioning, but couldn't you have taken the stairs even if some old people were with your group?

I feel like maybe some times people are working really hard on finding things to complain about... Although I will agree with you that the girl your are talking about seems like a b|tch, then again, some people are, regardless of race.

[tropo]

A good one was a Doi Suthep - went with about 5 Thai kids and 8 Thai adults and me. Cachier at the desk at first wanted to charge me farang, but Thai adults said "no" (I was not at the counter, but standing amongst the little group not hiding) - this was at the box car entrance (old people with us could not do the stairs). Followed a big queue of Chinese tourists, (and obviously so - very loud spoken Chinese, large cameras and Chinese clothing) - at the lift like door to the box car, the woman allows all the Chinese people in and all my Thai group and bars me - I show my ticket again - she ignores my Thai (pretending she can not understand me at all - takes my ticket and marches off to the cachiers - this holds up the box car - comes back about 2 minutes later (box car still waiting) and demands another 50B - extreamely rude -and I told her so - in Thai - I paid, but only because of the group I was with. The Chinese all had Thai tickets (obvious from their colour and my Thai friends asked to see their tickets they didn't speak Thai at all either). So, certainly about skin colour there and nothing else. At the top of the stairs - if you don't use the box car, they pounce on any white skin and make them pay their 50B - any Asians are ignored - Thais, Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, and so on - many obviously tourists too. I personally hate going there - only go as part of groups when obliged - I think its very overrated and many more beautiful temples in CM - let alone Thailand as a whole! ...only one I have ever been to that charges btw.

One shouldn't be surprised when faced with discrimination in Asia. They (Asians) certainly have to deal with a lot of it when they visit Western nations and most of the rest of the world. Let's just call it payback and move on.

We have double pricing in Australia where unemployed, students and elderly pay half of what the working people pay for many things.

Edited July 6, 2011 by tropo

[moe666]

The only solution to double pricing is to pay triple price.

Your only solution is to walk away or become a legal resident

Complaining on Thaivisa will change nothing

[lapoon]

What about Siam Paragon's Aquarium?

Private enterprise and blantant dual pricing (Thai prices are written in Thai script) Tourist prices are nearly tripple!

This one truely makes me angry

Bastards-- writing the price in their own language !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hehehoho]

What about Siam Paragon's Aquarium?

Private enterprise and blantant dual pricing (Thai prices are written in Thai script) Tourist prices are nearly tripple!

This one truely makes me angry

Bastards-- writing the price in their own language !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ye do realize the Siam Ocean World in Paragon is an Australian company with Australian management, don't ye?