Red Shirts Plan To Paralyse Bangkok, Topple Thai Government

[seri thai]

There are a few simple rules that make a politician/leader successful

1) the most important thing is charisma - politicians good or bad fare best when the popularly recognised - Blair, Thatcher, Obama, Churchill even Hitler are all proof of this - if you put up someone like Gordon Brown or John Major or Ab..... whatever his name is - they could be saints but will never succeed

2) While a politician has to look to the longer term when making decisions - they must be seen to imroving things quickly for ordinary people. The vast majority of people do not accept the no pain no gain phillosophy - and history has taught them that l while the pain is a certainty, the gains seldom are

3) Ordinary people exist in all levels of the social strata as do extremists

4) Politics is like a play - if you put on a good show people will follow you

5) you have to give some real benefit to poorer people so that they DO have "something to lose" if they protest (something the Israelis should have learned in Palastine)

Like him or hate him, honest or corrupt - Thaksin's face was well known to people and he knew how to milk that - Gorbachev was a fairly popular politician but was beaten by a guy who had the sense to ride into Moscow on the turret of a tank - you needed someone like that to oust Thaksin - not a bunch of old men who no one even knows - a young charismatic orator coud turn this around and make the people forget Thaksin in a matter of a few months!

Succinctly put!

Item 5 I think Abhisit sincerely tried to implement but was pushing against recession and vested interests/inertia.

That was the militarys play with Abhisit, unfortunately his forte is Oxford debating which doesn't go down well here.

They'll probably have to scrape the pork barrel for a locally acceptable alternative after they've cleaned their muskets.

Edited March 9, 2010 by seri thai

[warni]

Yes, there was another thread here yesterday or so showing what the payments were. Something like 300B per person and a decent amount for the truck driver. No way they would get a large crowd if there was no money involved.

It is 500 for the red shirts, my girlfriend told me.

[kratiam]

It's not going to work as planned.

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration.

What planet are you from? He was brought to power by a military coup and then by the yellow shirts taking over the airport and totaly destroying the Thai economy! You call that legit and decent? what country are you from?? lol

I get a bit sick of correcting these posts with some actual FACTS.

Well do it and stop talking about it.

[rainman]

Yes, there was another thread here yesterday or so showing what the payments were. Something like 300B per person and a decent amount for the truck driver. No way they would get a large crowd if there was no money involved.

It is 500 for the red shirts, my girlfriend told me.

Considering most of the truck drivers are coming from the North East, 300 Baht will not even pay for their gas to Bangkok and back, not even close, so it can hardly be considered a bribe, in my opinion.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What newspaper came up with the term "maoist tactics" anyways?

The Nation.

A really outrageous statement. People coming from the countryside is just a function of that being where people are the poorest and most disenfranchised in terms of having a voice in how the country is run. This divide in standard or living and political influence/equality is the real issue worth highlighting, but someone at The Nation thinks they can just call it Maoist tactics. It's beyond words. They might as well have said Khmer Rouge tactics.

[brahmburgers]

Yes, there was another thread here yesterday or so showing what the payments were. Something like 300B per person and a decent amount for the truck driver. No way they would get a large crowd if there was no money involved. It is 500 for the red shirts, my girlfriend told me.

Considering most of the truck drivers are coming from the North East, 300 Baht will not even pay for their gas to Bangkok and back, not even close, so it can hardly be considered a bribe, in my opinion.

Warni wrote "....and a decent amount for the truck driver" That means an 'extra amount' above the standard 300 or 500 paid to the regular folks. There are a lot of unemployed throughout Thailand. 300 to 500 baht is 2 days wages. It's a lure to get a free ride to Bangkok, an ok amount of money, free food, the chance to partake in some exciting activity, meet new people, free beer and energy drinks passed around, a free Red T-Shirt, and a party atmosphere, probably with music and dancing in front of the stage.

For the organizers, it's bigger bunches of money (certainly they'll get paid a lot more than the sloggers), a chance for notariety on the national stage (possibly leading to political office - where there's mega money available!) getting their face on TV and newspaper, being taken seriously. Also, if Thaksin does get back in power, the organizers/leaders of Red Shirts know there will be very generous pay-outs, as Thaksin is as famous for throwing money to supporters as he is at tossing promises of big money to small countries (Nicaragua, Liberia, Cambodia, Fiji, Montenegro, Burma, Ugunda, ...the list goes on).

Take the money and payments out of the equation, and the whole demonstration falls as flat as unleavened bread run over by a steamroller.

Edited March 9, 2010 by brahmburgers

[Chaimai]

What will happen if the RED leaders ask all the protesters to dress in YELLOW to bypass the road blocks and security checks.

No sharp and witty answer for that one.

I will offer a factual tidbit I gleened from a Red with close inside info when it comes to planning these rallies;

This time govt prohibited the bus lines from contracting with the Reds for transportation into Bangkok. In the past, they have used as many as 60+ tour busses to get the people to the rallies from all over the country. The Reds are forced this time, to use personal vehicles to get all to Bangkok. If there is a beef with the traffic congestion for those days, blame not the Reds. It is a govt thing, probably to undermine the cause and create animosity among the Bkk locals with Reds.

Mr featography....is there any reason by your writing has to be so big and red, its actually against the rulz here, didnt you notice that your the only one doing it?

It is also <deleted> annoying !

[Tumbo]

What will happen if the RED leaders ask all the protesters to dress in YELLOW to bypass the road blocks and security checks.

No sharp and witty answer for that one.

I will offer a factual tidbit I gleened from a Red with close inside info when it comes to planning these rallies;

This time govt prohibited the bus lines from contracting with the Reds for transportation into Bangkok. In the past, they have used as many as 60+ tour busses to get the people to the rallies from all over the country. The Reds are forced this time, to use personal vehicles to get all to Bangkok. If there is a beef with the traffic congestion for those days, blame not the Reds. It is a govt thing, probably to undermine the cause and create animosity among the Bkk locals with Reds.

Mr featography....is there any reason by your writing has to be so big and red, its actually against the rulz here, didnt you notice that your the only one doing it?

It is also <deleted> annoying !

ditto!

[SomTumTiger]

Perhaps they dont' want the reds setting the buses on fire, and using them as burning missles, like that did last April?

Thaksin Theme Song!

"Power and the money, money and the power

Minute after minute, hour after hour

Everybody's runnin, but half of them ain't lookin

It's goin on in the kitchen, but I dont know what's cookin

They say I got ta learn, but nobody's here to teach me

If they cant understand it, how can they reach me?

I guess they can't -- I guess they won't

I guess they frontin; that's why I know my life is outta luck, fool"

[anotherpeter]

It's not going to work as planned.

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration.

What planet are you from? He was brought to power by a military coup and then by the yellow shirts taking over the airport and totaly destroying the Thai economy! You call that legit and decent? what country are you from?? lol

I get a bit sick of correcting these posts with some actual FACTS.

Well do it and stop talking about it.

Like I said ... getting sick of it ... see post #99 ... there is also a couple of other posts explaining how the elected Democrat MPs formed a coalition with smaller parties.

[scorecard]

Like I said ... getting sick of it ... see post #99 ... there is also a couple of other posts explaining how the elected Democrat MPs formed a coalition with smaller parties.

Dear Anotherpeter,

I share your frustration.

But I guess the bottom line is that some people just want to add 1 plus 1 and get the answer of 3, and no matter how you explain, rationalize, share facts, they will never see the correct answer, for a very simple reason - because they don't want to.

Also frustrating for me, is the way people just see red or yellow and simply won't look at the whole big picture and won't realize (because they don't want to) that many people don't sympathize with either group.

Also frustrating for me are the posters who believe that whatever is good for them should be the law. Plus all the claims of double standards when in fact all the parties are guilty of double standards. Not good, but let's please move on.

Also frustrating for me is that so few people will recognize, as nicely put "The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration". In fact they are doing very well and have outlined a much better deal for all Thais. But I must be honest, I believe they need to be a lot more visible about what they are doing.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

[elcent]

last time they pulled this stunt i was 3 days trying to get back home, Abu Dhabi to Malaysia, then to Phuket then to Pattaya and then the yellow bus to Nondindaeng,, a nightmare,,

the ant's way in a thunderstorm. Glad you did it.

[moetownblues]

Yea, but will you find any taxis at the airport?

Wear a yellow shirt and they'll find you.

That's right you won't find to many rich upper class yellow shirts driving taxis...

[Ricardo]

Rome wasn't built in a day.

That was their own fault, for not appointing our former-PM, as an economic adviser.

[granuaile]

You have no problem with Maoist tactics? I seriously suggest you find yourself a bookstore and buy some books on the Chinese Cultural Revolution ..... or maybe start reciting the names of the 10's of millions of people that died because of Maoist policies.

You might rethink your answer.

I would suggest Edgar Snow's The Long Revolution.

Bill Hinton's Turning Point in China, Shenfan, Hundred Day War, The Great Reversal - his many essays in Monthly Review

[animatic]

Madam, you are well read!

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Well i just read another topic that the rats are already leaving the sinking ship.... read Thaksin's family members have already left Thailand or are about to do so, of course that has nothing to do with a certain rally on the weekend but is purely for business reasons......

But i guess upon reading such news we all know what to expect from the "peaceful gathering of pro-democracy protesters". Songkhran 2009 anyone?

Best regards......

Thanh

[moetownblues]

Hi.

Well i just read another topic that the rats are already leaving the sinking ship.... read Thaksin's family members have already left Thailand or are about to do so, of course that has nothing to do with a certain rally on the weekend but is purely for business reasons......

But i guess upon reading such news we all know what to expect from the "peaceful gathering of pro-democracy protesters". Songkhran 2009 anyone?

Best regards......

Thanh

Yes it is sad when citizens are forced out by corrupt governments.

[elcent]

adjust to any nation

so true

[hammered]

adjust to any nation

so true

U showin your age there

[granuaile]

Please be careful when do discuss what happens in Nepal. Sometime such thing should not be discuss in Thailand, or face 15 years.

Can I ask why not? Just curious.

Granuaile

[granuaile]

Or more recent history in Nepal for instance.

Lets open the Shining Path center from mind control.

And get some ex Red Brigade instructors to man it.

And open the Troksky- Lenin reading room for the enlightened.

Near thre Gang of Four steam baths.

Next to the Papa Josip Broze Dinning room.

Maybe all those Indian Taylors can do specials on Mao jackets.

Hmmm well, I named my son after the chairman of the Sendero Luminosa, whis is far more grassroots than the red shirts here could ever dream of becoming, with unpaid support from the indigenous population of Peru. Trotsky was far from being a Leninist, why I reject Trotskyism wich is about as far from Maoism as you can get (Trotskyists would agree I know as many of my friends and I have been on opposite sides of those barricades though I have come to appreciate some Trots such as Sparts (right when I was wrong about the Taliban vis a vis the Soviet Union, they supported the USSR I did not)). BTW, I don't need a tailor (not taylor) I have a couple of Mao jackets back home. When I visit again I have to remember to bring my old Soviet flags with me.

[Thanh-BKK]

Yes it is sad when citizens are forced out by corrupt governments.

Which government?

It's Thaksin calling them out, knowing very well what he has planned..... mayhem, that is. One of the reds' "meeting points" is Bangna intersection, that is precisely where i live. They better not try to stop me from going through there when i come back from work or i become "politically active". My bike ain't called "Bulldozer" for nothing

Best regards.....

Thanh

[elcent]

adjust to any nation

so true

U showin your age there

when age is equivalent to wisdom, then yes. Leonard is a rock and stumbling stone. Go figure.

[granuaile]

What planet are you from? He was brought to power by a military coup and then by the yellow shirts taking over the airport and totaly destroying the Thai economy! You call that legit and decent? what country are you from?? lol

Hmmm I have a question. Purely selfish i admit. When I came here in 2006 the dollar was a round 40 baht per dollar, now it is around 32 baht. How has the Thai economy been destroyed it seems to be doing pretty well, though my buying power has been diminished. Merely ask because means fewer trips to the women-only pubs on RCA - or other pubs for that matter...

Granuaile

[granuaile]

Madam, you are well read!

Disadvantage of being a retired librarian, a profession filled with many nonconformists albeit often inconsistent ones as with myself... Ohhh, but too my undergraduate work was Asian Studies and my graduate school endeavors were library science and political science...

Granuaile

[Roadman]

Like I said ... getting sick of it ... see post #99 ... there is also a couple of other posts explaining how the elected Democrat MPs formed a coalition with smaller parties.

Dear Anotherpeter,

I share your frustration.

But I guess the bottom line is that some people just want to add 1 plus 1 and get the answer of 3, and no matter how you explain, rationalize, share facts, they will never see the correct answer, for a very simple reason - because they don't want to.

Also frustrating for me, is the way people just see red or yellow and simply won't look at the whole big picture and won't realize (because they don't want to) that many people don't sympathize with either group.

Also frustrating for me are the posters who believe that whatever is good for them should be the law. Plus all the claims of double standards when in fact all the parties are guilty of double standards. Not good, but let's please move on.

Also frustrating for me is that so few people will recognize, as nicely put "The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration". In fact they are doing very well and have outlined a much better deal for all Thais. But I must be honest, I believe they need to be a lot more visible about what they are doing.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Ditto for me.

I hope that the rally is peaceful but if the Reds put a foot out of line then bust their <deleted> with whatever is needed to put them back in line quickly and efficently. And I know after his first ASEAN conference stuff up that Ashibit now knows what prepared means...having the support of the Army is the pig in the hole that the line of idiots that were in his position before did not have. I still do not like the way he was brought to power, but now that he is there the country is a on a good keel. The longer he is there gives Thailand the best chance it has to move towards a shared democracy with a bit less control from the Army and the other group that we are not supposed to discuss. And bust any Yellow arse who steps out of line to the same degree as well... still some to be dealth with as well.

[featography]

You have no problem with Maoist tactics? I seriously suggest you find yourself a bookstore and buy some books on the Chinese Cultural Revolution ..... or maybe start reciting the names of the 10's of millions of people that died because of Maoist policies.

You might rethink your answer.

I would suggest Edgar Snow's The Long Revolution.

Bill Hinton's Turning Point in China, Shenfan, Hundred Day War, The Great Reversal - his many essays in Monthly Review

Amazing how they hide this stuff in books, isn't it?

[mic6ard]

Honestly, I believe that more than 50% of the public are really fed-up with this mess. It wreck the economy, especially those that depends on tourists. But right now no matter what happen it won't get better. New Election- red wins, yellow rises, vice versa.

Mr. Thaksin need to keep his mouth shut and leave things alone for the good of the country. Right now the reds are being view as terrorists/negatively, by international press because of people like Se Daeng and their use of strong/threatening languages.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Thaksin was a good PM, he was just too greedy for our taste.

[thaihome]

You say you are amazed that the Red Shirts remember life under Thaksin as being so good. I think it works this way: If you earn 15,000 baht a month or less, you feel you benefited from Thaksin; If you earn 20,000 to 50,000 baht a month you probably feel Thaksin robbed the country but you weren't hurt by it; If you earn/receive more than 100,000 baht a month you probably despise Thaksin and revile him as the destroyer of the country.

A truly great post that sums it up better then I have ever see. Now, at what income bracket does the Thai Income Tax start? And making 100k a month does not make you an elite, it makes you middle class and they are the key to Thailand's future.

TH

Why would you say 'A truly great post"?

Do you really believe that the whole current situation can be easily and totally defined just by income levels?

The reality is that the rural poor (with total respect for the rural poor) will obviously vote for and love whoever comes along at the right time with a bag of rice and some 40Baht telephone cards (AIS of course).

And the reality is also that thaksin took immoral advantage of just this point.

Do the rural poor want him back? Of course they do, unfortunately they still just survive, and unfortunately (not their fault) they don't really understand how it could be and should be all different, with a much better spread of income for all, equal justice for all, etc.

And the reality is also that thaksin, if he was genuine would have quickly instituted overriding broad policy directives which governed all future development etc., so ensure there was real and fast as possible change, in education, justice, sharing of the overall wealth of Thailand, etc etc. Did he do this? Absolutely NO!.

The reality is also that many rich Thais would love him to come back because they believe that under his rule (read dictatorship) business was good.

What they are not thinking about is the development of Thailand into a more civil society with equal justice, and equal opportunity for all. Just greed.

What they also ignore is that there has been solid criticism of the so called 'thaksinomics' as unsustainable.

What many also ignore is that abhisit and korn are moving Thailand forward:

- The economy is not so bad, taxation receipts (a good economic health indicator) are way above forecast.

- The various chambers of commerce are quite happy about policy and the direction the Thai economy is taking.

- Korn recently won two prestigious international awards for the way he steered Thailand through the global economic crises and seriouly softened the possible negative effects on the poor.

- Abhisit and korn announced, several weks ago, an overriding policy to reduce income gap, to gain better spread of wealth, and a new appraoch to massive improvements in education through a broad based powerful and competent committee, rather then by a beaurocratic appraoch (which has been proven before to not work).

I think you misunderstood my post. I agree with just about all you say. My point was the groundswell against the TRT that started in 2005 was the tax paying middle class sick of seeing their money spent on so called “populist” programs that were fact doing nothing much else but lining Thaksin’s and his cronies pockets.

I certainly agree that the Democrats with Abhisit leading have done a good job.

TH