Red Shirts Plan To Paralyse Bangkok, Topple Thai Government

[BigBikeBKK]

Yawn... How many times have we heard this before? The Red Shirts will be lucky to gather 30-40 thousand protesters IMO. Hope they won't resort to mob violence like they did last year....

[TAWP]

Thaksin is urging his supporters to join the demonstration in BKK.

Cited in Bangkok Post

"There are news that people in Bangkok are scared of flooding and if they're really scared they should bring me back home," Thaksin said. "Tell the Bangkokians that when I'm back, I'll build a dam to prevent flooding in the capital and it will be the most beautiful dam in the world."

I'm really in doubts now whether this guy is still mentally okay?!

Years ago he also promised to solve the traffic problems in BKK lol

Yes Thaksin did indeed say this. He was joking...and those present laughed along with him at the joke.....but as always in politics the "opposition" will use any

remark made in jest to discredit their target. Remember the big flap when Ronald Reagan was recorded saying...."OK..we start bombing in 10 minutes" ...

did anyone really think he was serious and that he was going to order the bombing of Russia??? No of course not but the left wing media had a field day with it!!!

On another occasion after he had been shot and was on the operating table surrounded by surgeons--he looked up and said " I hope you guys are all republicans"

The media even tried to twist that around. Having even the slightest tendency to humour is dangerous in politics it seems.

First rule of a joke is that it should actually be funny.

Ronald Reagan's comment was funny and showed he was at his wits even during distress.

Thaksin's is just boring and nonsensical.

[SpoliaOpima]

About the UDD's objectives and the so-called 'watermelon army,' ie divisive ranks within the armed forces, the Asia Times had some interesting observations to make:

Thaksin has consistently denied that he funds the red shirt-wearing UDD, but the protest group has previously marched to the populist former leader's orders, including his call last April from abroad - where he lives in self-imposed exile - for a "social revolution" to overthrow the government. The violence that ensued was put down by military force and saw a temporary surge in popular support for Abhisit's government.

Some analysts note that the UDD has ever since failed to galvanize significant numbers and has more clearly morphed into a pressure group in pursuit of Thaksin's interests than an organic grassroots movement pushing for democratic change. Many now view the UDD's tilt towards violence as a tactical misstep, similar to the negative impact the rival yellow-garbed People's Alliance for Democracy's seizure of Bangkok's two international airports in late 2008 had on its mass appeal.

Now with the bulk of Thaksin's assets at risk of confiscation and the government intensifying efforts to extradite him from his exile base in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, officials fear that Thaksin's more radical supporters, including known rogue elements in the military and police, may launch a campaign of violence in a bid to escalate the conflict and through brinksmanship embolden Thaksin's calls for a royal pardon over his conviction on corruption charges.

Those concerns arise from recent anonymous grenade attacks on army headquarters and near Government House, the discovery of a C-4 laden explosive device near the Supreme Court and veiled threats by a rogue military official loyal to Thaksin that judges presiding over his assets case could be targeted for assassination. One senior Democrat party member recently expressed his concerns in discussions with a foreign mediator that the UDD is preparing to extend its fight to the provinces by organizing armed anti-government militias along the Cambodian border.

Mainstream UDD leaders maintain that they are committed to non-violence and have insinuated that the military and government have manufactured threats to justify a crackdown on their peaceful supporters. To guard against a repeat of last April's violent UDD-led riots and a possible provincial insurrection, the government has in recent weeks steadily mobilized joint civilian and security force units across 38 provinces as well as in Bangkok.

The UDD's propagandists have claimed that the military is split along pro- and anti-Thaksin lines and that the national police force is largely allied to their cause. They have claimed that any violent suppression of their demonstrators will be met by a mutiny among sympathetic soldiers and cops. Top-ranking police were negligent in maintaining order during last April's riots and Abhisit has reportedly worked closely with Police General Watcharapol Prasarnrajkit to identify and sideline officials known for lingering loyalties to Thaksin, himself a former police official. The upcoming rallies, some analysts suggest, will put to the test the effectiveness of those maneuvers.

While Thaksin has lured a number of retired military officials into his political camp, including most significantly former Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC) deputy commander General Panlop Pinmanee, as well as also rogue 4th Cavalry army specialist Major General Khattiya Sawasdipol, his influence among the active top brass has been systematically diminished through a series of reshuffles, special rotations and demotions since the 2006 coup that ousted Thaksin.

Coup-maker and current army commander General Anupong Paochinda is widely believed by diplomats monitoring military affairs to have consolidated his position over top command positions, including those instrumental in past coups. They note that Anupong's reshuffles have also disproportionately promoted his Queen's Guard clique and, according to some military watchers, diluted Privy Council president and former army commander General Prem Tinsulanonda's influence and enhanced that of Queen Sirikit over the forces.

Those reshuffles have also signaled a clear transition to deputy commander and known royalist General Prayuth Chan-ocha when Anupong must retire in October this year. Prayuth would be eligible to serve in the army's top position for three consecutive years and, as a former Queen's Guard commander, would likely be trusted in palace circles to manage security during the eventual royal succession.

Indeed, rifts are more evident in Thaksin's political camp. According to one UDD insider, the protest group is split between a camp that desires to move away from Thaksin's personality politics and emphasize more broadly democratic reform, and another led by those who have benefited politically and financially through their association with the former premier. Meanwhile, the Thaksin-aligned Peua Thai opposition party is riven with infighting over the de facto leadership of rough-and-tumble machine politician and former police official Chalerm Yoobamrung.

Some Bangkok-based diplomats suggest that Thaksin's post-coup reliance on discredited politicians and rogue military and police elements to push his agenda has further undermined his already questionable democratic credentials. That, they say, will conspire against any future Thaksin bid to portray government suppression of UDD protesters bent on violence as an anti-democratic crackdown deserving of international censure - as he attempted in the chaotic wake of last April's riots.

source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LB20Ae01.html

[webfact]

UPDATE

Cabinet approves ISA enforcement for red-shirt rally

BANGKOK: -- The Cabinet on Tuesday approved the enforcement of the internal security law on March 11-to-23 in the face of the red-shirt rally.

Bangkok and Nonthaburi will be placed under the ISA.

The other six provinces are under partial enforcement covering gateways to the capital. The six are Samut Prakan, Chachoensao, Ayutthaya, Pathum Thani, Nakhon Pathom and Samut Sakhon.

-- The Nation 2010-03-09

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[AskTheCPT]

What is with this pointless bickering?

I'm reading this to figure out whether I should leave Bangkok for this weekend, or a few weeks, not argue about BS that I have no control over

Get a life people

[jesimps]

It's not going to work as planned.

Ok, maybe a bunch of people will show up, but the existing government will be fine after the dust settles. Have there been reports of payments for attending?

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

I see the OP photo of Thaksin with the words "Thailand needs change" He's trying to copy Obama's success with that line. Yes, Thailand needs change, it needs to get good people in leadership roles, and get away from the ugly patterns of having people like Thaksin in the driver's seat. Thailand needs to change being so tolerable to treasonous people like Thaksin. It needs to change being so forgiving to Thaksin's puppets, like Sae Daeng, who toss explosives here and there.

The sooner Thailand changes from being harassed from Thaksin and his followers, the sooner Thailand can get moving forward to improving quality of life and cleaning up the environment and doing the many other things that have been put off because of the incessant hassling from Thaksin and his paid intimidators.

Yet another diatribe repeated incessantly here on TV to distract from that fact that the majority of Thais want Democracy and equality for all Thais and not just the chosen elites. The rabid words are always the same, almost as if an automated note writer were producing them.

We should all reject this kind of propoganda. We need to re-establish a civil discourse.

Hear hear! I am a farang married to a Thai Thaksin supporter and I know she is absolutely commited to him and his party. I however try to be neutral and let the Thais get on with Thai politics. Other farang on here would be well advised to stay on the sidelines and not be so vitriolic about one or another party. I have seen both sets of supporters in demonstrations, the yellow shirts occupation of government house and the airport and now the red shirts doing their bit. It is not as though one side is law abiding and the other is not.

[webfact]

UPDATE

PAD statement: Thaksin and red shirts aiming for insurrection

BANGKOK: -- The People's Alliance for Democracy on Tuesday issued a statement accusing ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his army of red shirts of trying to incite insurrection.

"The upcoming mass rally, mobilised by Thaksin, the red-shirt leaders and the Pheu Thai Party, is a direct violation of Article 68 of the Constitution because the protests are designed to grab power via non-constitutional means," the PAD said in its statement.

Thaksin and the red shirts are not just trying to overthrow the government but judging by their preparations, aim at grabbing power and changing the political system, according to the statement.

The PAD warned about mayhem due to street fight between the residents and the red shirts.

-- The Nation 2010-03-09

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[frodo]

About the UDD's objectives and the so-called 'watermelon army,' ie divisive ranks within the armed forces, the Asia Times had some interesting observations to make:

Some Bangkok-based diplomats suggest that Thaksin's post-coup reliance on discredited politicians and rogue military and police elements to push his agenda has further undermined his already questionable democratic credentials. That, they say, will conspire against any future Thaksin bid to portray government suppression of UDD protesters bent on violence as an anti-democratic crackdown deserving of international censure - as he attempted in the chaotic wake of last April's riots.

source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LB20Ae01.html

In Thaksin's mind, he is a legend and well respected throughout the international community. Contrary to his mode of thinking, this article sums it up very well. He's a has been and his "democratic" principles are highly questionable. The article also mentions that Thaksin's US visa has expired and it seems as though he cannot obtain a new one, and would be placed in "secondary confinement" if he attempts to enter the US. Only in Thaksin's mind does the world have respect for him.

[mommysboy]

Wow! Big talk and a lot of threats. Where I agree is that this is not really an elected government and does not have a mandate IMHO. Yet another election is essential.

[rainman]

The army wasn't concerned when the yellow shirts took the airport hostage for over a week, so they probably won't be concerned now. Unless they have double standards, of course.

[mommysboy]

The army wasn't concerned when the yellow shirts took the airport hostage for over a week, so they probably won't be concerned now. Unless they have double standards, of course.

they do.

[anotherpeter]

Hear hear! I am a farang married to a Thai Thaksin supporter and I know she is absolutely commited to him and his party. I however try to be neutral and let the Thais get on with Thai politics. Other farang on here would be well advised to stay on the sidelines and not be so vitriolic about one or another party. I have seen both sets of supporters in demonstrations, the yellow shirts occupation of government house and the airport and now the red shirts doing their bit. It is not as though one side is law abiding and the other is not.

A good portion of the posters here that are anti-red are not anti-poor and are not pro-yellow. They are anti-Thaksin.

I don't think you will be seeing any of us the protests for or against, but seeing that most of us live here and pay taxes, employ thais, spend a lot of money, we are just having our say.

[anotherpeter]

Wow! Big talk and a lot of threats. Where I agree is that this is not really an elected government and does not have a mandate IMHO. Yet another election is essential.

Again about the non-elected/illigitimate government.

See post #135.

If I have stated anything that is incorrect, please correct me.

[robertson468]

A possible scenario which no one considers here is the fall of the Abhisit government in parliament - about a month ago there was speculation that Sanan from Chat Thai Pattana, one of the Democrat's coalition partners, may be the person who Puea Thai nominates as the PM candidate in the upcoming no-confidence debate vote.

The red shirts would be mere bystanders and the pressure on the street to attack the current government with peaceful but effective means from two fronts.

If this scenario plays out and any violence should occur it is surely government / army sponsored to create the pretext fro a coup if the government should fall in parliament through a no confidence motion.

*rest of post removed, see reasons below*

I am posting it again this time with source / quote and unquote

A possible scenario which no one considers here is the fall of the Abhisit government in parliament - about a month ago there was speculation that Sanan from Chat Thai Pattana, one of the Democrat's coalition partners, may be the person who Puea Thai nominates as the PM candidate in the upcoming no-confidence debate vote.

The red shirts would be mere bystanders and the pressure on the street to attack the current government with peaceful but effective means from two fronts. If this scenario plays out and any violence should occur it is surely government / army sponsored to create the pretext fro a coup if the government should fall in parliament through a no confidence motion.

As blogged by Bangkok Pundit then:

source Asian correspondent Bangkok Pundit blog

Quote:

"In the upcoming no-confidence debate, the government can change if there is a vote of no-confidence in the PM.

Puea Thai will lead it and are meant to provide the name of the new PM. Puea Thai have about 189 MPs, Chat Thai Pattana about 25, and Bhum Jai Thai about 33. Then you have Pracharaj and some other MPs part of other coalition parties, but more closely aligned with Puea Thai totalling about 15-20. This gets you around 260 MPs out of 480 MPs which is a majority, although they may want to pick up 10 MPs to give them a clearer majority. Now, one way to convince Chat Thai Pattana to leave the government would be for Puea Thai to choose of the Chat Thai Pattana MPs, namely Sanan, to be PM. Then, if you get Bhum Jai Thai onboard - Abhisit is gone. This still seems unlikely although certainly not impossible as both Chat Thai Pattana and Bhum Jai Thai are not happy with the Democrats. Whether they would leave the government is a different matter, but above is a path on how it might happen.

Why Sanan? He was Secretary-General of the Democrats and Interior Minister under Chuan. He can hardly be attacked as some Thaksin lackey then."

Thanong of The Nation believes it will happen in a new post of his entitled "A secret plot to support Maj Gen Sanan as new PM"

On March 14, the Puea Thai Party plans to launch a no-confidence motion against Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. Thaksin Shinawatra, who still musters control over this party, already has secret support from Banharn Silapa-archa, the leader of the Chat Thai Pattana. Newin Chidchob of the Bhumjai Thai is also ready to jump ship to join this new coalition. The no-confidence motion will take place while the Red Shirts' rallies are going on in full steam. Several hundred thousands of Red Shirts would be blocking Bangkok and planning mass rally to topple the Abhisit government.

Chalerm Yoobamrung will be left in the cold. His recent squabbles with Jae Noi, Sudarat Keyuraphand, for control of Pheu Thai, are not going any where. It is a sideshow.

We have to see whether it is possible for the Pheu Thai, with support from the defected coalition partners, to resort to parliamentary tactics to throw out Abhisit from the premiership. Then it would propose Maj Gen Sanan as the next PM -- not Chalerm

unquote

- senior Chat Thai Pattana figures have been going on the record to deny this – but note that no Chat Thai Pattana Ministers will be facing a no-confidence vote!

so watch out for who will be proposed as the PM before the no confident motion and you will most likely know what will play out.

It now all depends on what has been going on behind the scenes and who has been promised what - there is no loyalty in Thai politics – and some coalition partners are already unhappy with the democrats – the money is not flowing as predicted – if you know what I mean. Yes fighting corruption in this country can cost you – after all most of the players in Thai politics are in it for the money and nothing else – so loyalties can shift quickly. (see Newin ) The yellow shirts can then cry foul "non-elected" government like the reds do now – only difference is the democrats can not win an election – the reds would go for a democratic election and win –Thaksin is pardoned and gets back all his money – and Anupong can go packing and apply for asylum abroad or stages a coup - cunning plan don't you think so?

What we might see on the 14^th or 15^th is a peacefully toppled government in parliament with added pressure from the red shirts on the streets - or a coup - or both.

Nice post cnx, it certainly sounds plausible, and whilst I want to see justice served for the sake of Thailand's future, peace and stability is just as important.

I agree his article gives a more succinct insight to one possible scenario, but believe it does not take it to it's final conclusion. So assuming Thaksin comes back and receives a pardon and gets his money back, there is no doubt that he will set his sights on becoming PM again. Understandably, those who opposed him will need to take cover some how or other because I doubt he will be happy to let bygones be bygones, but then what? I do not believe the PAD will be happy to idly standby whilst all this is going on.

Mr Dealer can you give the roulette wheel another spin please because this looks like it could go round and round and round and round.......

[gbswales]

There are a few simple rules that make a politician/leader successful

1) the most important thing is charisma - politicians good or bad fare best when the popularly recognised - Blair, Thatcher, Obama, Churchill even Hitler are all proof of this - if you put up someone like Gordon Brown or John Major or Ab..... whatever his name is - they could be saints but will never succeed

2) While a politician has to look to the longer term when making decisions - they must be seen to imroving things quickly for ordinary people. The vast majority of people do not accept the no pain no gain phillosophy - and history has taught them that l while the pain is a certainty, the gains seldom are

3) Ordinary people exist in all levels of the social strata as do extremists

4) Politics is like a play - if you put on a good show people will follow you

5) you have to give some real benefit to poorer people so that they DO have "something to lose" if they protest (something the Israelis should have learned in Palastine)

Like him or hate him, honest or corrupt - Thaksin's face was well known to people and he knew how to milk that - Gorbachev was a fairly popular politician but was beaten by a guy who had the sense to ride into Moscow on the turret of a tank - you needed someone like that to oust Thaksin - not a bunch of old men who no one even knows - a young charismatic orator coud turn this around and make the people forget Thaksin in a matter of a few months!

[webfact]

Shopping malls beef up security in face of red menace

By Kwanchai Rungfapaisarn

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Major shopping malls and stores have beefed up security ahead of the red-shirt rally starting on Friday.

"We'll be on highest alert during the days of demonstration, and an emergency plan can be implemented immediately if something violent occurs," The Mall Group senior chief marketing officer Chamnarn Maytaprechakul said yesterday.

About 200 extra security guards have been deployed at the group's shopping malls, bringing the total to more than 1,000.

"All of the group's executives will have their mobile phones on all day during the rally, so they can contact each other at all times," Chamnarn said, adding that Friday would be an unpredictable day.

"Whatever will be, will be. We must be good at heart to stay in society at this time and lead our lives as usual," he said. "I don't want to use the word 'fear'. With fear, we'll do nothing. We'll be more cautious this time but not worse, because we won't be going out anywhere."

Tesco Lotus senior vice president Darmp Sukontasap said the safety of staff and customers was the top priority for the hypermarket chain.

"Like everyone else, we hope the situation this weekend remains peaceful and will pass without incident. However, to be prudent, for the past several weeks we've put in place a contingency plan that would allow our business to continue functioning smoothly through any crisis situation," he said.

The plan included hotlines for staff and customers to keep them updated on developments. A crisis-management team within the company is also on standby and ready to take action if the situation escalates.

"In the meantime, we've tightened security in and around our stores, in order to ensure the safety of our staff and customers. I'd like to assure our customers that whatever the situation, we're doing all we can to ensure Tesco Lotus stores continue to be a safe and enjoyable shopping place for them and their families," Darmp said.

Central Pattana (CPN) executive vice president Nattakit Tangpoonsinthana said CPN had tightened security measure at all CentralWorld and Central Plaza shopping centres as a precaution for this weekend's planned red-shirt gathering.

"We've increased the number of security guards and enforce strict security checks at all shopping centre entrances. We also have working teams to update the present situation with the authorities," he said.

"We believe the government will be able to control the situation. All of the big events at our shopping centres, such as a concert by leading South Korean boy band 2pm and others sponsored by big brands like Sunsilk at CentralWorld, remain in the pipeline as planned.

"We want the protest to be conducted peacefully. It should not disrupt people's lives or the economy. We are seeing good signs for the economic outlook and don't want the protest to damage the country's image and reputation."

-- The Nation 2010-03-09

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[bwalker1973]

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

You are joking, if anything this government is worse and even more corrupt.

There are more drugs on the street since he took power, and even selling going on from Thai schools to young kids. With no policy to try and stop this.

The crime rates have shot through the roof, without anyone doing anything to try and stop and deterr them.

Abhisit government, was a dumped in government, not elected in by its people of Thailand, so it is ilegit.

[anotherpeter]

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

You are joking, if anything this government is worse and even more corrupt.

There are more drugs on the street since he took power, and even selling going on from Thai schools to young kids. With no policy to try and stop this.

The crime rates have shot through the roof, without anyone doing anything to try and stop and deterr them.

Abhisit government, was a dumped in government, not elected in by its people of Thailand, so it is ilegit.

Some examples rather than vague statements would be useful, otherwise this just becomes a rant.

And about the non-elected/illigitimate government. See post #135. If I have stated anything that is incorrect, please correct me.

[DocHolliday]

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

You are joking, if anything this government is worse and even more corrupt.

There are more drugs on the street since he took power, and even selling going on from Thai schools to young kids. With no policy to try and stop this.

The crime rates have shot through the roof, without anyone doing anything to try and stop and deterr them.

Abhisit government, was a dumped in government, not elected in by its people of Thailand, so it is ilegit.

The Thai Prime Minister is not elected by the people but by the elected members of Parliament and/or their coalition partners. Period

[kangeroo]

hello just leaving from a nice 5 weeks in New Zealand and then straight to bkk where i will going to Korat does anyone have any information worth reading or should i just stay i Australia for a few weeks and then go .

Thankyou and cheers .

[Acharn]

why do non thai posters seem to be negative about the supporters of thaksin, like him or not these are ordinary people for whom the previous regime was of benefit so they like and support him and his policy.

i really dont know if he was good or bad when compared to others but i do know that those wearing yellow shirts are anti democracy as they have stated so the question is, if the choice is to have a vote or not to have a vote, who would you vote for?

Suggest you do some more detailed reserach about the thaksin era, and also suggest you think more about the longer-term perspective of how to achieve a better quality of life for all Thais.

Why don't you mention some of those things he ought to research? I lived here through the Thaksin period (and a long time before that). It became apparent toward the end that he wanted to head in a more authoritarian direction, and many of his appointees were anti-foreigner, but he did a lot of good for ordinary people. There were failures, but many of the village funds he set up were not wasted or stolen; are still productive sources of capital for small businesses in the provinces today. The health care program has saved untold thousands of lives, and the PAD hates it. People up-country have more now than they did before Thaksin, and they know the PAD and the Democrats want to take it away from them.

And I don't believe the "longer-term perspective [sic] of how to achieve a better quality of life for all Thais" is to restrict the votes of the people outside Bangkok and appoint 70% of the members of Parliament.

[EyesWideOpen]

I am amazed that the red shirts seem to look upon the past under Thaksin rule as being so good....It is a bit like remarrying your ex wife because you forgot all her faults....

Under Thaksin, Thailand felt more like we were under a dictatorship. Meaning he wakes up in the morning with a goofy idea, and it is law by the afternoon. Endless corruption, killing three thousand drug dealers who were competing with the police, and on and on.

As to the people who speak of him as a formerly elected and proper representative of the people, with the endless blatant vote buying that goes on, that is a mockery as well. Let's see, 30 million people times 500 baht per vote equals 1.5 billion baht, almost exactly what was skimmed off by the airport scanner scandal ALONE. So that means in essence there is no democracy here. Not sure what the answer is, but the current system sure is broken.

Did a lookup on Wikipedia about Thaksin. It seems there is a long family history of using the government to fleece the people........And what is up with a Chinese guy running a Thai country? I do know if he somehow stages a miracle comeback, I am OUTTA here...

Thaksin's great-great-grandfather Seng Sae Khu was a Hakka Chinese immigrant from Meizhou, Guangdong who arrived in Siam in the 1860s and settled in Chiang Mai in 1908. His eldest son, Chiang Sae Khu, was born in 1890 and married a Thai woman, Saeng Somna. Chiang's eldest son, Sak, adopted the Thai surname Shinawatra ("does good routinely") in 1938, and the rest of the family followed suit.

Thaksin's father, Lert, was born in Chiang Mai in 1919 and married Yindi Ramingwong. In 1968, Lert Shinawatra entered politics and became an MP for Chiang Mai.

Seng Sae Khu made his fortune through tax farming.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax farming was originally a Roman practice whereby the burden of tax collection was reassigned by the Roman State to private individuals or groups. In essence, these individuals or groups paid the taxes for a certain area and for a certain period of time and then attempted to cover their outlay by collecting money or salable goods from the people within that area

[Tokay]

never mind all of us in pattaya will carry on as we always do because nothing affects us anyway apart from the one thing we fear above all else----------------bar closing time !!

Thats a great idea...Pattaya here I come... book me a woom with a view..!!!

intentional spelling mistake?

Yes, the correct speeling is LOOM.

[anotherpeter]

I am amazed that the red shirts seem to look upon the past under Thaksin rule as being so good....It is a bit like remarrying your ex wife because you forgot all her faults....

Under Thaksin, Thailand felt more like we were under a dictatorship. Meaning he wakes up in the morning with a goofy idea, and it is law by the afternoon. Endless corruption, killing three thousand drug dealers who were competing with the police, and on and on.

As to the people who speak of him as a formerly elected and proper representative of the people, with the endless blatant vote buying that goes on, that is a mockery as well. Let's see, 30 million people times 500 baht per vote equals 1.5 billion baht, almost exactly what was skimmed off by the airport scanner scandal ALONE. So that means in essence there is no democracy here. Not sure what the answer is, but the current system sure is broken.

Did a lookup on Wikipedia about Thaksin. It seems there is a long family history of using the government to fleece the people........And what is up with a Chinese guy running a Thai country? I do know if he somehow stages a miracle comeback, I am OUTTA here...

Thaksin's great-great-grandfather Seng Sae Khu was a Hakka Chinese immigrant from Meizhou, Guangdong who arrived in Siam in the 1860s and settled in Chiang Mai in 1908. His eldest son, Chiang Sae Khu, was born in 1890 and married a Thai woman, Saeng Somna. Chiang's eldest son, Sak, adopted the Thai surname Shinawatra ("does good routinely") in 1938, and the rest of the family followed suit.

Thaksin's father, Lert, was born in Chiang Mai in 1919 and married Yindi Ramingwong. In 1968, Lert Shinawatra entered politics and became an MP for Chiang Mai.

Seng Sae Khu made his fortune through tax farming.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tax farming was originally a Roman practice whereby the burden of tax collection was reassigned by the Roman State to private individuals or groups. In essence, these individuals or groups paid the taxes for a certain area and for a certain period of time and then attempted to cover their outlay by collecting money or salable goods from the people within that area

1) He's Thai. He was born in Thailand. His father was born in Thailand. His grand-father was (probably) born in Thailand. Where do you want to draw the line?

2) Tax farming: Sounds like he learnt to rip of the poor farmers from an early age.

[Tokay]

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

You are joking, if anything this government is worse and even more corrupt.

There are more drugs on the street since he took power, and even selling going on from Thai schools to young kids. With no policy to try and stop this.

The crime rates have shot through the roof, without anyone doing anything to try and stop and deterr them.

Abhisit government, was a dumped in government, not elected in by its people of Thailand, so it is ilegit.

The Thai Prime Minister is not elected by the people but by the elected members of Parliament and/or their coalition partners. Period

someone needs to give that memo to the redshirts.

seriously, if they were not getting paid, none of this would be going on. none of them would come to protest anything. I don't see this as a legit cause because of this reason alone. It's simply an untrained, private army.

[animatic]

The army wasn't concerned when the yellow shirts took the airport hostage for over a week, so they probably won't be concerned now. Unless they have double standards, of course.

Actually the army seemed extremely concerned about the PAD airport take over.

Just not enough to storm the airport to take it back, because of the potential damage to infrastructure.

But I guess that doesn't fit in with Red Sentiments and rose colored memories.

[khunjamespittman]

About the UDD's objectives and the so-called 'watermelon army,' ie divisive ranks within the armed forces, the Asia Times had some interesting observations to make:

Some Bangkok-based diplomats suggest that Thaksin's post-coup reliance on discredited politicians and rogue military and police elements to push his agenda has further undermined his already questionable democratic credentials. That, they say, will conspire against any future Thaksin bid to portray government suppression of UDD protesters bent on violence as an anti-democratic crackdown deserving of international censure - as he attempted in the chaotic wake of last April's riots.

source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LB20Ae01.html

In Thaksin's mind, he is a legend and well respected throughout the international community. Contrary to his mode of thinking, this article sums it up very well. He's a has been and his "democratic" principles are highly questionable. The article also mentions that Thaksin's US visa has expired and it seems as though he cannot obtain a new one, and would be placed in "secondary confinement" if he attempts to enter the US. Only in Thaksin's mind does the world have respect for him.

How can any sensible readers of your post believe you claims about what woould happen in Thaksin tried to go to US. We have seen hundreds of outrageous claims of having classified information only to see all the claims about Thaksin's extradition, passport and visas were false. Only a fool should believe these kinds of claims coming from someone hiding under the cloak of anonymity.

Absurd on its face.

[ridgydidge]

It's not going to work as planned.

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration.

What planet are you from? He was brought to power by a military coup and then by the yellow shirts taking over the airport and totaly destroying the Thai economy! You call that legit and decent? what country are you from?? lol

[ridgydidge]

About the UDD's objectives and the so-called 'watermelon army,' ie divisive ranks within the armed forces, the Asia Times had some interesting observations to make:

Some Bangkok-based diplomats suggest that Thaksin's post-coup reliance on discredited politicians and rogue military and police elements to push his agenda has further undermined his already questionable democratic credentials. That, they say, will conspire against any future Thaksin bid to portray government suppression of UDD protesters bent on violence as an anti-democratic crackdown deserving of international censure - as he attempted in the chaotic wake of last April's riots.

source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LB20Ae01.html

In Thaksin's mind, he is a legend and well respected throughout the international community. Contrary to his mode of thinking, this article sums it up very well. He's a has been and his "democratic" principles are highly questionable. The article also mentions that Thaksin's US visa has expired and it seems as though he cannot obtain a new one, and would be placed in "secondary confinement" if he attempts to enter the US. Only in Thaksin's mind does the world have respect for him.

How can any sensible readers of your post believe you claims about what woould happen in Thaksin tried to go to US. We have seen hundreds of outrageous claims of having classified information only to see all the claims about Thaksin's extradition, passport and visas were false. Only a fool should believe these kinds of claims coming from someone hiding under the cloak of anonymity.

Absurd on its face.

That's the whole problem.. the brainwashing! It's everywhere.. You would think that Thaksin is the devil himself!! You have to question any information you get in Thailand.. Don't just believe it and accept it like a fool!

[ballpoint]

The army wasn't concerned when the yellow shirts took the airport hostage for over a week, so they probably won't be concerned now. Unless they have double standards, of course.

Actually the army seemed extremely concerned about the PAD airport take over.

Just not enough to storm the airport to take it back, because of the potential damage to infrastructure.

But I guess that doesn't fit in with Red Sentiments and rose colored memories.

A very valid point. The red shirt posters all whine on about how they're not violent, and the government has no right to use force against them, but they then come out with "why didn't the army forcibly remove the yellows from the airport?" Forgetting that it was their government in charge at the time, and that the airport was able to reopen almost immediately the protestors left. Without even any thefts reported from the shops, which, as we're talking about Kingpower, is really saying something. The reds would have had the army storm the terminal, dragging the yellows out, maybe killing a few, injuring many more and doing untold damage to the building in the process. And they try to tell us they don't condone violence? There is a very real difference between forcibly removing a large group of people sitting peacefully in a terminal and countering attacks on the public, their residences and their places of work. Yes, the airport protest may have been wrong. Yes, it definitely cost the country money, but what right has anyone got to say that the loss of even one life is worth any amount of money? There is no need for lives to be lost in a peaceful protest, and I'll argue that on the reds behalf too.