Rediscovering Salsa, The Soul Of Mexico In A Bowl

[jazzbo]

IT’S not easy being a Mexican restaurant in the United States. Some customers are outraged if the menu doesn’t have burritos; others, if it does. Some see authenticity when chips and salsa aren’t on the table; others see a rip-off.

“Everybody here thinks they know what Mexican food is,” said Nicholas Cox, the chef at La Esquina in NoLIta.

“Especially if they’re from Texas or California.”

...

No!... Who could that be?

Javier Olmedo, a Oaxaca University student and aspiring chef, said: “Watching someone shovel in salsa with tortilla chips is strange to Mexicans. Like how an American would feel watching someone drink salad dressing out of the bottle.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/dining/17salsa.html?hpw

[sabaijai]

Excellent article.

[bonobo]

Excellent article.

I am in two minds about the article.  On one hand, the point about authentic Mexican salsas is well taken.  Most of what we get around the world is not particularly authentic.  I personally like the varieties I can find in various regions in Mexico, and mixing and matching them with different main dishes is half of the fun.  

However, food evolves, and not being authentic is not such a bad thing. One chef I love in Baja California makes a variety of salsas, all based on what he pulls out of his garden that morning.  "Authentic?"  Well, he is a rather famous Mexican chef, so I would say yes.  Traditional?  Maybe not.  ANd while I don't really care for the sweet commercial American salsas so much, on some things, such as a burger ("salsa burgers" are quite popular), perhaps it matches better than a more chile-based salsa.

I truly love real Mexican cuisine, especially Baja and that served in the south-western Mexican states.  But I also like the deep fried tacos they serve at Jack-in-the-Box, a fast food chain.  And just as I have had good-tasting chutneys in London which have only a passing relationship with anything coming out of India, food does not have to be "authentic" to be good.

[jazzbo]

Kuhn B -- I once or twice each year go to the SE USA, rent a car, and drive upwards of 2000 miles over 3-4 weeks. Aside from all the Mexican food I get to eat in restaurants where Mexicans are the owners and main customers, my favorite road food is Taco Bell burritos... aren't the deep-fried tacos called taquitos in California?

[bkkjames]

Oh no, here we go again...

[kikoman]

an interesting article, salsas are very different in the states, Mexico taquito shops have at least 4 to 6 different type of salsas, mostly very spicy.

Sorry but to me, Taco Bell never cut it !

Cheers:

[Tejas]

an interesting article, salsas are very different in the states, Mexico taquito shops have at least 4 to 6 different type of salsas, mostly very spicy.

Sorry but to me, Taco Bell never cut it !

Cheers:

Everything evolves.......including food. I wonder if the current generations of real Mexicans would even eat what their ancestors ate 400 years ago.

And then transport the food concept across the border, and you get something else.......similar to what happened to Chinese food when it reached the USA.

No matter.......it is delicious to some people and horrible to others......that is the way it goes (I think).

By the way......and we might get the salsa police started again........in northern Texas we (non-Mexicans) virtually never say "salsa."

We say "hot sauce." And out comes a picante hot sauce. All of the Mexican restaurants serve hot sauce (or vitually all of them).

Salsa, where I come from, is chopped tomatoes, onions, lime juice, chili powder, celantro, etc.

So, even what we call the food evolves.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

aren't the deep-fried tacos called taquitos in California?

Not really. Taquitos were invented on Olivera Street in L.A. They are a rolled corn tortilla with chicken or beef inside, and then deep-fried. They are served with a thin green guacamole sauce. A very simple snack.

The original Mexican version, was tacos dorados, but that fried taco is a more complex dish. Taquitos bounced back to Mexico, and are sometimes called flautas, but are often served with many more condiments, and often made with wheat tortillas instead of corn.

[tutsiwarrior]

salsa?...ain't that sum complicated, hip shakin' dance that them mexicans do?

I was raised near LA and my mom was a Spanish speaking public health nurse and knew all the best restaurants 'cause they were her clients...I grew up with the stuff in the 50s...

salsa is what you're used to, there ain't no special way to prepare it...you just know what tastes right...

in highland Bolivia they have their own salsa known in quechua as 'yacua' (ye gotta gargle the 'cu') which is fiery stuff...I attempted to make sum meself when I was 15 y.o. and unsupervised and paid the price; the chile juice burned my hands for days afterwards...just mashed up chile, garlic and onions, no tomato...white folks in Bolivia scorn spicy food as it is considered to be 'common'...

here in Thailand I just do the usual tomato, onion, garlic, chile, lime juice variety in the blender...good fer most purposes...

[Ulysses G.]

I never had much use for salsa. I just ate it because it was free while I was waiting for the guacamole.

[Tejas]

I never had much use for salsa. I just ate it because it was free while I was waiting for the guacamole.

Quacamole........yuum......but what is it with Thai quacamoles?

I was just thinking about cultural differences with regard to food........a Mexican chef once told me that in Mexico people often will eat refried beans last......in other words, they are served several things and finally the refried beans arrive.

I wonder is this is true.

That would be odd from a person from Texas who wants his refried beans served with his Mexican rice, and taco, and relleno, and fajitas, and tamales......and soft corn tortillas, and crispy corn tortillas with picante hot sauce and Mexican food..........then, the main dish comes

As far as restaurants in Thailand go, Tacos and Salsa makes some great salsas: red, orange, and green, all served with crispy corn chips (and the owner is from Mexico).

[Ulysses G.]

Quacamole........yuum......but what is it with Thai quacamoles?

I have been told that many of the avocadoes grown in this part of the world were not originally intended to be eaten. They were sold to cosmetics companies for their products and have almost no taste.

However, more and more farmers have started growing hass avocadoes and they are becoming available all year round for a reasonable price in Northern Thailand (although they are still not as good as the ones grown in California and Australia).

[tutsiwarrior]

Quacamole........yuum......but what is it with Thai quacamoles?

I have been told that many of the avocadoes grown in this part of the world were not originally intended to be eaten. They were sold to cosmetics companies for their products and have almost no taste.

However, more and more farmers have started growing hass avocadoes and they are becoming available all year round for a reasonable price in Northern Thailand (although they are still not as good as the ones grown in California and Australia).

any nurseries near CM where you can get small hass avocado trees? They usually produce after about 2-3 years in So Cal....everyone there usually sprouts the big seed and then puts one in the ground (affix toothpicks then place suspended inna jar fulla water until the 'hair' comes)

I could get my MiL who looks after the banana and papaya out the back to look after it...I'd travel to CM from Suphan if I could find a healthy seedling...

our next door neighbors when I was a kid in Pasadena had a magnificent tree whose canopy completely covered their back yard with loadsa fruit...unfortunately I didn't acquire a taste for avocados until I was an adult and had moved away...

[jfchandler]

Right on... Right on!!!! Finally some good info on Mexican food terminology....

Taquitos or flautas bear little resemblance to any kind of traditional taco...

In my experience, the former are always rolled and fried into a cigar-shaped like tube. And unlike tacos, I've never been served a taquito or flauta, at least that I can recall, that had anything other than the meat filling inside....

No rice, beans, cheese, lettuce, tomato or even salsas on the inside....in all my years of eating them.

And I'm trying to recall....they're almost always served only as rolled and fried corn tortillas. I'm trying to recall whether I ever had a flautas served using any other kind of tortilla...

aren't the deep-fried tacos called taquitos in California?

Not really. Taquitos were invented on Olivera Street in L.A. They are a rolled corn tortilla with chicken or beef inside, and then deep-fried. They are served with a thin green guacamole sauce. A very simple snack.

The original Mexican version, was tacos dorados, but that fried taco is a more complex dish. Taquitos bounced back to Mexico, and are sometimes called flautas, but are often served with many more condiments, and often made with wheat tortillas instead of corn.

[bonobo]

Right on... Right on!!!! Finally some good info on Mexican food terminology....

Taquitos or flautas bear little resemblance to any kind of traditional taco...

In my experience, the former are always rolled and fried into a cigar-shaped like tube. And unlike tacos, I've never been served a taquito or flauta, at least that I can recall, that had anything other than the meat filling inside....

No rice, beans, cheese, lettuce, tomato or even salsas on the inside....in all my years of eating them.

And I'm trying to recall....they're almost always served only as rolled and fried corn tortillas. I'm trying to recall whether I ever had a flautas served using any other kind of tortilla...

aren't the deep-fried tacos called taquitos in California?

Not really. Taquitos were invented on Olivera Street in L.A. They are a rolled corn tortilla with chicken or beef inside, and then deep-fried. They are served with a thin green guacamole sauce. A very simple snack.

The original Mexican version, was tacos dorados, but that fried taco is a more complex dish. Taquitos bounced back to Mexico, and are sometimes called flautas, but are often served with many more condiments, and often made with wheat tortillas instead of corn.

In San Diego and Tijuana, taquitos are merely small tacos with carne asada, carnitas, pollo asada, or al pastor.  The small corn tortilla is fried for a few moments, then the meat put on, a small spoon of a green chile sauce, a few pieces of cilantro, then the guacamole.

The taco of the same type usually comes in a larger tortilla and probably has lettuce, tomatoes, onions, and cheese on there as well.

Flautas are served in the bigger chain-type restaurants, and they seem to be made more with wheat tortillas.

The small rolled-type tacos are called simply that--rolled tacos.  They are ordered in threes, and are a corn tortilla rolled around beef, usually, and deep fried.  They come covered with guacamole and sometimes cheese.  When coming home late, 2 or 3 in the morning, I like to hit the 24-hour tacos drive-throughs and get a plate of three of them.  Curiously, I never eat them during the day or during a normal meal.

As far as guac goes in Thailand, I buy Haas avocados at Fresh mart for 69 baht and make my own. Perhaps San Diego (the US capital of avocados) or Mexican ones make a little better guac, but not a huge degree.  Does anyone know if the BKK climate is conducive to growing Hass avocados? 

[jfchandler]

As I was saying, typically a small rolled and fried corn tortilla, usually with meat only on the inside...

[bonobo]

As I was saying, typically a small rolled and fried corn tortilla, usually with meat only on the inside...

Yes, and as I wrote, this is what we call in San Diego a "rolled taco."  A "taquito" in San Diego and Baja is something totally different, as I described above.

[sceadugenga]

Quacamole........yuum......but what is it with Thai quacamoles?

I have been told that many of the avocadoes grown in this part of the world were not originally intended to be eaten. They were sold to cosmetics companies for their products and have almost no taste.

However, more and more farmers have started growing hass avocadoes and they are becoming available all year round for a reasonable price in Northern Thailand (although they are still not as good as the ones grown in California and Australia).

any nurseries near CM where you can get small hass avocado trees? They usually produce after about 2-3 years in So Cal....everyone there usually sprouts the big seed and then puts one in the ground (affix toothpicks then place suspended inna jar fulla water until the 'hair' comes)

I could get my MiL who looks after the banana and papaya out the back to look after it...I'd travel to CM from Suphan if I could find a healthy seedling...

our next door neighbors when I was a kid in Pasadena had a magnificent tree whose canopy completely covered their back yard with loadsa fruit...unfortunately I didn't acquire a taste for avocados until I was an adult and had moved away...

Toots, email Don from Don's foods. He is a sponsor has a link in the Chiang Rai forum. A couple of years back there was a topic there on growing avocado trees that he was involved in. If you can't contact him...he seems to be a bit evasive lately, get back to me and I'll have a search for it for you.

I seem to recall that brahmburgers was doing something with them as well.

Edit: My experience is that seedlings can be unreliable, the best fruit producers are usually grafted stock.

Edited March 19, 2010 by sceadugenga

[maxjay]

BkkJames: Oh no, here we go again...

I agree, the age old ThaiVisa debate: authentic vs. non-authentic Mexican food rears it's head again...

I think Mr. Mena sums it up quite well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/dining/1...anted=2&hpw

Mr. Mena, of Hecho en Dumbo, uses a big, hungry-looking hand blender for his excellent salsa verde, a rounded, tomatillo-based trickle of concentrated flavor with serrano chilies. He said that salsa is infinitely adaptable, defying labels, able to accommodate whatever good cooks want to do to it.

In modern Mexico, salsa often gets extra savor from salsa inglesa (Worcestershire sauce), salsa de soya (soy sauce), jugo Maggi (an MSG-based sauce) or spoonfuls of chicken broth.

“Salsa is not even vegetarian in Mexico,” Mr. Mena said in discussing what makes salsa genuine. “How can anyone know what authentic is?”

I'm thrilled we have good salsas available at reasonable prices with the El Sapo brand from Nana Foods.

[jfchandler]

Yes, and as I wrote, this is what we call in San Diego a "rolled taco."  A "taquito" in San Diego and Baja is something totally different, as I described above.

Not so fast, Amigo... At least according to one account, the taquito itself was actually invented in San Diego... And there are certainly San Diego Mexican eateries that serve taquitos/flautas on their menu and call them exactly that (see below). (PS- But...I'm not arguing that some places may not also call them rolled tacos... just that the taquito as most people know it certainly has a place in San Diego...)

On The Range: Flautas & TaquitosBy Chris Meesey, Wednesday, Jul. 1 2009 @ 10:49AM

On The Range is a weekly exploration of the history and lore of Texas menu items.

Sometime toward 3 a.m., when the drinking is (usually) winding down and serious munchies coming on, almost anything will make for a snack, providing it releases the right amount of filler and fat into your system.

If you're in San Diego there are plenty of options. According to David Moye, in his article, "Roll Another Number for the Road," published in San Diego's Citybeat magazine, you simply head out to one of "those ubiquitous taco shops like Roberto's, Alberto's, Gilberto's, etc., (which) are practically the only restaurants running (during those hours) with full steam and grease."

Here in Dallas, you might possibly locate a manned pushcart in Oak Cliff or Webb Chapel during those hours. You may have staked out a permanent stand, as well--one drawing a steady stream of multilingual traffic. Or if you're like some of us, you head straight for Whataburger and chow down on one of their taquitos, which are really soft tacos in disguise.

So the tightly rolled snacks are familiar to many people. But what's the difference between a taquito and a flauta?

Both are lightly filled, tightly rolled tortillas, usually fried and almost always served (in their restaurant incarnation) with guacamole, queso, sour cream, and rice. Some authorities suggest that taquitos are made from corn tortillas and flautas from flour, but this isn't always the case. What everyone, including Moye, seems to agree is that flautas ("flutes" in Spanish, so named for their shape) were part of traditional Mexican cuisine, while taquitos were invented by Ralph Pesqueria, Sr in 1940 at his family's El Indio Restaurant in San Diego.

Or so the story goes.

You see, Pesqueria wanted to make extra money for his fledgling enterprise, so he took his Mom's flauta recipe, introduced his own modifications, and was soon selling the ready-to-eat taquitos to hungry workers at nearby factories.

So that's it. A Tex-Mex favorite borrowed from a real Mexican dish through the machinations of a restaurateur in California.

Guy Fieri, Food Network host of the popular show "Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives" featured El Indio and their legendary taquitos in one of the episodes. Their recipe calls for corn tortillas filled with a mixture of shredded roast beef, beef broth, spices, and salsa for flavor and extra moisture. The little rolled goodies are then deep-fried at 350 degrees until they are at once crispy and tender.

.....

And then there's these rolled taquito/flautas entries from these San Diego restaurants, for example... Seems the rolled taquito/flautas isn't quite as foreign to San Diego as you think...

Of course, it's a big world, and everyplace can have their own variations and naming conventions... But to be absolutist about it and argue that taquitos, as most of the rest of us know them, aren't called taquitos in San Diego seems to miss the mark...

[jfchandler]

And then here, courtesy of a Flickr page, is a photo of the taquitos from El Indio in San Diego...

Look pretty much like "taquitos" to me...

[Tejas]

Back to quacamole........Bonobo said San Diego is the "capital of quacamole." Or something like that.

I have been there many times, but it always seemed cooler to me.

I wonder if the "real thing" can be grown in Thailand, and if so, where?

My guess is in the upland areas around Chiang Mai or other upland areas.

I think it takes several years to finally get them to grow tall enough to produce fruit (at least 4).

This could be a niche to exploit for some enterprising farang with lots of money to lose.

I know, from experience, that it is not always a good idea to import some plant and grow it in Thailand--different microbes, soil, bugs, rainfall patterns, temperature, etc. It can wreak havoc on imported plants.

Still, I would love to get my hands on the same quality of quacamole that we have back in Texas.

[jazzbo]

I would have guessed that the thin skinned Florida variety (Alligator Pear) would do better in the humid climate of Thailand than the Hass which is generally grown in a more arid region... not as flavorful or oily as the Hass, but what the H...

[bonobo]

Of course, it's a big world, and everyplace can have their own variations and naming conventions... But to be absolutist about it and argue that taquitos, as most of the rest of us know them, aren't called taquitos in San Diego seems to miss the mark...

I am not going to get into the back-and-forth as to who is the expert here.  I don't really know what they are called in other places.  I do know that pretty much all the places at which I patronize, they called rolled tacos just that, rolled tacos.  Your article mentions Robertos, which happens to be one of my after-midnight destinations.  You can check their menu at their website. (search for "Robertos, San DIego").  "Rolled tacos."  

And in Tijuana, where I go for my al pastor fixes, and at my local favorite restaurant in San Diego, the small tacos without all the fixings are called "taquitos,"   (literally, "little tacos.")

Someone else posted about how names change by geography, and that is why I posted, basically to confirm that names do differ depending on location.  But if you want to insist that I don't know what I am writing about, that I am either prevaricating or am clueless, so be it. I bow you your expertise in all thing foodie and all things San Diego and Baja.    

[Tejas]

Of course, it's a big world, and everyplace can have their own variations and naming conventions... But to be absolutist about it and argue that taquitos, as most of the rest of us know them, aren't called taquitos in San Diego seems to miss the mark...

I am not going to get into the back-and-forth as to who is the expert here.  I don't really know what they are called in other places.  I do know that pretty much all the places at which I patronize, they called rolled tacos just that, rolled tacos.  Your article mentions Robertos, which happens to be one of my after-midnight destinations.  You can check their menu at their website. (search for "Robertos, San DIego").  "Rolled tacos."  

And in Tijuana, where I go for my al pastor fixes, and at my local favorite restaurant in San Diego, the small tacos without all the fixings are called "taquitos,"   (literally, "little tacos.")

Someone else posted about how names change by geography, and that is why I posted, basically to confirm that names do differ depending on location.  But if you want to insist that I don't know what I am writing about, that I am either prevaricating or am clueless, so be it. I bow you your expertise in all thing foodie and all things San Diego and Baja.    

You are right about name changes.......it is cultural evolution based on dispersion of ideas, concepts, etc. Been happening for several million years now

I had a heated argument a way back about salsa vs hot sauce in Texas. The person arguing with me was clearly from the salsa police force.

He even said I had never been to Joe T. Garcias in Ft. Worth because they don't serve hot sauce, only salsa. Well, on their menu you can see--if you Google it--that they serve hot sauce with each meal.

What people in northern Texas think of as hot sauce and salsa is not the same as what others think........so be it.

Who really cares? I just want some good Mexican food.

Same with the taquito or rolled taco, etc., ...different names, still good. Same with lots of things.

One of the best Mexican places I have ever eaten ate was a Mom and Pop dive in Chico, California that served........taquitos (that is what they decided to call it).....corn tortilla stuffed with shredded beef, rolled and fried.

They also served beer can sized tamales with beef chile sauce smothered on top. It was so unbelievably good. Nothing else on the menu.

I am hungry........got to go to Tacos and Salsa and get some good food.

[jfchandler]

But if you want to insist that I don't know what I am writing about, that I am either prevaricating or am clueless, so be it. I bow you your expertise in all thing foodie and all things San Diego and Baja.    

I wasn't suggesting, in any way, any of the above ideas.... which only you have stated, not me...

I was only demonstrating, quite clearly, that at least some places around San Diego (certainly not all, but at least some) do indeed call the rolled, fried corn tortilla tubes "taquitos"... And in the course of inquiring, came across the article indicating that taquitos may indeed have been first created and so named at a San Diego restaurant... But obviously, not one of the ones you frequent...

It was you, my friend, who were taking the absolutist position... when in my view, things are a bit more nuanced...as the evidence clearly shows.

[tutsiwarrior]

Quacamole........yuum......but what is it with Thai quacamoles?

I have been told that many of the avocadoes grown in this part of the world were not originally intended to be eaten. They were sold to cosmetics companies for their products and have almost no taste.

However, more and more farmers have started growing hass avocadoes and they are becoming available all year round for a reasonable price in Northern Thailand (although they are still not as good as the ones grown in California and Australia).

any nurseries near CM where you can get small hass avocado trees? They usually produce after about 2-3 years in So Cal....everyone there usually sprouts the big seed and then puts one in the ground (affix toothpicks then place suspended inna jar fulla water until the 'hair' comes)

I could get my MiL who looks after the banana and papaya out the back to look after it...I'd travel to CM from Suphan if I could find a healthy seedling...

our next door neighbors when I was a kid in Pasadena had a magnificent tree whose canopy completely covered their back yard with loadsa fruit...unfortunately I didn't acquire a taste for avocados until I was an adult and had moved away...

Toots, email Don from Don's foods. He is a sponsor has a link in the Chiang Rai forum. A couple of years back there was a topic there on growing avocado trees that he was involved in. If you can't contact him...he seems to be a bit evasive lately, get back to me and I'll have a search for it for you.

I seem to recall that brahmburgers was doing something with them as well.

Edit: My experience is that seedlings can be unreliable, the best fruit producers are usually grafted stock.

thanks fer that scead...I'll look into it soon as I'm gettin' ready to go back to work...

just wonderin' how the trees would do in hot, flat, lowland Suphanburi...if there is any possibility the MiL will find it as she's the ace in all things agricultural; trouble is she's never seen the actual fruit...but the wife has and could maybe give some guidance...

the best avocados I ever ate were in Chile where they're called palta (aguacate in Mexico, a derivation of the nahuatl aguacatl)...a staple of the national cuisine, simply sliced and dressed with oil and vinegar...the chilenos are very european...

Edited March 19, 2010 by tutsiwarrior

[bonobo]

I wonder if the Sharwil avocados would do better here.  This is the main type cultivated in Hawaii.  Hass don't do well there, so maybe they wouldn't do that well in Thailand.  I know there are some Caribbean-types as well which might do better here than the colder-liking Hass.