Deposed Thai Premier Thaksin Now In Montenegro

[mazeltov]

^unfortunately you have lost the plot - you are by birth a citizen of your country, no matter how you twist it this will always be the case.

Sorry Brit...but you are incorrect. I had two of my bretheren-in-arms that went adventuring in Africa some years ago. Lost their citizenship and became persona non grata in the country of their birth...

This is fact, not academic theory. I am personally connected to these 2 people.

yep, such cases exist.

there are countries that get anal with their laws and expel citizen that don't behave well in their view. the east block commie states liked to do that and would be another example.

dual -citizenship is also not accepted by many nations.

anyway, on an another level we would/could still regard them somehow by their birthright nationality or where they originally came from. (and don't have to be anal about it.)

[OZEMADE]

"POOR DEVIL"....... hopefully literally speaking............... He must be drawing all of his hidden accounts down alot - with all of his relocating, and will soon be "poor" (as the poor in Thailand who he cheated out of a better life)............. Wouldn't that be a fitting end of the story?????????????

Didn't I read some where recently he was off to inspect one of his GOLD mines.

[Maestro]

Read everything you need to know about Thai citizenship in the Thai Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965), as amended by Acts No. 2 and 3 B.E. 2535 (1992) and Act No. 4 B.E. 2551 (2008)

--

Maestro

[Puccini]

^I know the rules on thai citizenship as I have seen them many times, however if you want to apply them then Abhisit will be booted! We know for a fact he has british citizenship. As for Khun T we do not know his status except he has diplomatic passports from other countries which do not necessarily mean citizenship.

I browsed through the Thai Nationality Act cited higher up in this topic. Which section of this law requires that "Abhisit will be booted" if this law is applied to him? My interest in this is purely academic, ie a law and its interpretation.

[Publicus]

This could sound like the Obama "birthers" who finally have given it up.

We should seriously consider the same here.

[Maestro]

This could sound like the Obama "birthers" who finally have given it up...

I'm afraid I have no idea what Obama's place of birth could possibly have to do with Thaksin being in Montenegro and apparently having citizenship of that country? Is it possible that your are posting off topic, attempting to disrupt the discussion of this thread?

--

Maestro

[britmaveric]

^I know the rules on thai citizenship as I have seen them many times, however if you want to apply them then Abhisit will be booted! We know for a fact he has british citizenship. As for Khun T we do not know his status except he has diplomatic passports from other countries which do not necessarily mean citizenship.

I browsed through the Thai Nationality Act cited higher up in this topic. Which section of this law requires that "Abhisit will be booted" if this law is applied to him? My interest in this is purely academic, ie a law and its interpretation.

Dual Citizenship - should have chosen one or the other when he was 18. However we all know that this will never be applied to anyone or you are going to see a whole host of people out on their ear.

[samran]

Well Brit. Here is the Thai law on the subject:

THAILAND

CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based on the Nationality Act of 1965 with Amendment No.2 AD 1992 and Amendment No.3 AD 1993.

BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of Thailand does not automatically confer citizenship. A person born of a father or mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom.

A person born within the Thai Kingdom except a person of alien parents if, at the time of birth, the father was not married to the mother, unless the mother was given leniency for temporary residence or had been permitted to stay temporarily in the Thai Kingdom, unless she had entered the Kingdom without permission.

BY DESCENT: Child born in wedlock, either of whose parents is a citizen of Thailand, regardless of the child's country of birth. Child born out of wedlock, whose mother is a citizen of Thailand and whose father is unknown or stateless, regardless of the child's country of birth.

BY NATURALIZATION: Before being able to apply for Thai citizenship, the person must have the following qualifications: Have displayed good behavior. Have a regular occupation. Have a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five years. Have knowledge of Thai language.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions:

Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain.

A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals.

LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:

VOLUNTARY: Voluntary renunciation of citizenship is permitted by Thai law. Contact the Embassy for details and proper paperwork. If a person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of their father desires to retain the other nationality, they must renounce Thai nationality within one year after attaining the age of twenty years.

INVOLUNTARY: The following are grounds for involuntary loss of Thai citizenship: Person voluntarily acquires foreign citizenship.

This quote is 100% WRONG. Just shows how lazy people are not to go to the original text and pull up something they google on the internet.

The quote stumbles on even the most basic points. The age of 18 years is not mentioned anywhere in thai nationality law. What Thai nationality law does say is that a child born to a foreign parent who has both Thai nationality and the nationality of the foreign parent can, for one year starting at age 20, decide if he or she wants to renounce Thai nationality. If not choice is made however, there is no penalty. There is no mention anywhere else of an age based deadline for other dual nationals.

If the quote above was correct, then Thai embassies would immediately stop issuing Thai passports to Thai spouses with dual nationals, or confiscate them if it became clear they are holding dual nationality. The fact of the matter is they don't, cause it is perfectly legal for Thai spouses to hold dual nationality.

In summary Thai law lets you do essentially (or rather, has no penalty for):

- have more than one nationality if you are born with them (eg born to a foreign parent, born on soil which grants another citizenship automatically..eg the US, or UK pre 1983 in the case of Abhisit and Korn)

- take the nationality of your spouse while keeping Thai nationality

- become Thai as well as keep your previous nationaity

Where thai nationality law becomes unclear is that there is a clause which states that Thai's who naturalise as a foreign citizen lose Thai citizenship (nb. Taking your spouses citizenship on a plain reading of the law doesn't seem to count as 'naturalisation').

Thaksin has clearly taken the nationality of a couple of countries (Montenegro and one S.American country) but for some reason, the present government hasn't tried/attempted to strip him of his Thai nationality when they've tried to get him with every other legal manouver. I suspect that it is becase the actual section of the Thai nationality act I refer to regarding naturalisation, is, like many Thai laws, effectively toothless.

Edited March 17, 2010 by samran

[khunjamespittman]

If I remember some thread about Thai citizenship, it is illegal to hold dual citizenship..I realize that hundreds do, however, consider if indeed this is the LAW and the Thai Government confirmed that Thaskin is indeed a citizen of Montenegro, and moved to revoke his Thai citizenship.....Intresting bitch slap by the Thai government for all the trouble he has been giving them....

I suggest that you might want to understand the difference between natural born citizenship and citizenship by naturalization before you start giving advice about revoking citizenship.

[connel707]

If I remember some thread about Thai citizenship, it is illegal to hold dual citizenship..I realize that hundreds do, however, consider if indeed this is the LAW and the Thai Government confirmed that Thaskin is indeed a citizen of Montenegro, and moved to revoke his Thai citizenship.....Intresting bitch slap by the Thai government for all the trouble he has been giving them....

Well if this is the case they would have to boot Abhisit too?

BTW you can't revoke citizenship of someplace you are born. (facts are facts - once thai always thai)

How and why would they have to boot Abhisit.....Abhisit is a Thai hero, Thaksin is a coward, a criminal and a dog on the run.... and now his litter run with him.... I feel sorry for his pups...

[connel707]

Dual citizenship is one thing, diplomatic visas another..but legally, how can you be a quadruple citizen? my only guess is money talks. funny, they wont mention HOW or what TYPE of visa he is on. a type F? Fugitive? C? Criminal or crook?

To get a diplomatic passport of a country you need not be a citizen of that country.

Read Wikipedia: "In exceptional circumstances, a diplomatic passport is given to a foreign citizen with no passport of his own, such as an exiled VIP who lives, by invitation, in a foreign country."

I think we all know and understand that ....Dick..!!

[animatic]

I know people who have gotten their citizenship back after renouncing. As you never really lose your inherent birth right.

Some acts may allow for redemption,

but that doesn't mean they will give it to you,

nor must they.

[junglist]

Looks like he's inspecting a construction site in Montenegro:

He is looking older, I guess its all starting to catch up with him. Payback is a B@tch!!!

[froglegisgood]

^unfortunately you have lost the plot - you are by birth a citizen of your country, no matter how you twist it this will always be the case.

I was born in Belgium. In 1999 I took Australian citizenship, having lived there for 7 years.

In 2001 I went to the belgian embassy to renew my belgian passport that had expired and was asked for a certificate of non citizenship of Australia... as the embassy knowing that I had been a resident for more than 2 years, I was allowed to apply for Australian citizenship. This is standard rule by the way.

Off course I could not get it and I lost my Belgian citizenship, which was a serious issue as it cut me off from my pension plan and access to live in Europe.

Recently the law in Belgian as changed to line up with EU rules and I can now apply to get my citizenship back, but it is not automatic.

So this proves that you can lose citizenship from your country off birth and filiation... by the way most of the place won't give you citizenship just because you are born there...

[Ice123]

I just hope EU will block Montenegro from joining EU. Another third world country.

I hope you will understand in future what none sense you just said (wrote).

[Zolt]

Dual citizenship is one thing, diplomatic visas another..but legally, how can you be a quadruple citizen? my only guess is money talks. funny, they wont mention HOW or what TYPE of visa he is on. a type F? Fugitive? C? Criminal or crook?

Well, technically if he's got citizenship he wouldn't need a visa. Small countries sometimes grant citizenship to important foreign investors, but I guess in this case he simply invested in some local officials.

[yoshiwara]

So, he couldn't find one major country prepared to touch him with a bargepole.

Montenegro was formerly known as the State of Freedonia.

[webfact]

Montenegro Welcomes Thaksin; To Offer Citizenship

Montenegro has announced that it welcomes Thaksin Shinawatra and is ready to offer the former Thai prime minsiter citizenship.

Thaksin earlier revealed that he is now in Montenegro, but will be returning to Dubai soon in the next few days.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Ricardo]

How happy that his hosts were able to wear red-hats, to make him feel 'at home', hopefully he was able to return the compliment, and present them with matching foot-clappers ?

[kraxlhuber]

Rumour Mill has it,that M.T-rex (no insults to dinosours) has been seen in Buri Ram eating Som Tam with Mr Fish, pun intended .Mr Dracula was the Guest of Honour offering T residence and citizenship on his castle.

[kraxlhuber]

Montenegro Welcomes Thaksin; To Offer Citizenship

Montenegro has announced that it welcomes Thaksin Shinawatra and is ready to offer the former Thai prime minsiter citizenship.

Thaksin earlier revealed that he is now in Montenegro, but will be returning to Dubai soon in the next few days.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Tongue in Cheek;

The Government of Montenegro has offered Mr T-Rex to rename the Country from Montenegro(Black Mountain in Latin parlay) ,into Monte Rosso,= Red Mountain

[Montenegrin]

Hi,

I am from Montenegro and searching Google for Sinavatra I found this forum .

Two things confuse me.

First,It is obvious that he has people behind him,he won every elections fair and square.

I mean,you overthrown him by coup d'etat,than his allies won elections organized by military junta,you then overthrow his allies and installed government that has less than 35% of support and you are talking about democracy?!I dont understand why dont your goverment organize elections and win if they have people support.If not-they shoud not be goverment,dont you agree?

Secondly,you are calling him criminal based on conviction that has clear political background and issue warrant for his arrest that is not recognized by Interpol

Sorry,but strange things are going on.

p.s. my country surely didnt give him citizenship entirely on its on.We certainly didnt do this without asking USA and EU,because although we are not formally members of NATO and EU we follow their policies thoroughly.With our passport he do not need visa to enter EU countries,so it would be interesting to see what would happen if he tries to do that

Also,our law does not permit dual-citizenship except in special cases when national interests are at stake.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Montenegrin

[jdinasia]

Hi,

I am from Montenegro and searching Google for Sinavatra I found this forum .

Two things confuse me.

First,It is obvious that he has people behind him,he won every elections fair and square.

I mean,you overthrown him by coup d'etat,than his allies won elections organized by military junta,you then overthrow his allies and installed government that has less than 35% of support and you are talking about democracy?!I dont understand why dont your goverment organize elections and win if they have people support.If not-they shoud not be goverment,dont you agree?

Secondly,you are calling him criminal based on conviction that has clear political background and issue warrant for his arrest that is not recognized by Interpol

Sorry,but strange things are going on.

p.s. my country surely didnt give him citizenship entirely on its on.We certainly didnt do this without asking USA and EU,because although we are not formally members of NATO and EU we follow their policies thoroughly.With our passport he do not need visa to enter EU countries,so it would be interesting to see what would happen if he tries to do that

Also,our law does not permit dual-citizenship except in special cases when national interests are at stake.

Hmmm a new member ... claiming to be from Montenegro ... spouting the Red line .... and missing every relevant fact?

Welcome back!

[animatic]

Hi,

I am from Montenegro and searching Google for Sinavatra I found this forum .

Two things confuse me.

First,It is obvious that he has people behind him,he won every elections fair and square.

I mean,you overthrown him by coup d'etat,than his allies won elections organized by military junta,you then overthrow his allies and installed government that has less than 35% of support and you are talking about democracy?!I dont understand why dont your goverment organize elections and win if they have people support.If not-they shoud not be goverment, dont you agree?

Secondly,you are calling him criminal based on conviction that has clear political background and issue warrant for his arrest that is not recognized by Interpol

Sorry,but strange things are going on.

p.s. my country surely didnt give him citizenship entirely on its on.We certainly didnt do this without asking USA and EU,because although we are not formally members of NATO and EU we follow their policies thoroughly.With our passport he do not need visa to enter EU countries,so it would be interesting to see what would happen if he tries to do that

Also,our law does not permit dual-citizenship except in special cases when national interests are at stake.

Well we all can see his Public Relations efforts have been translated into Montenegrin.

Right as if it was read from a Thaksin PR handout.

Doesn't make it the truth though.

The man is still a convicted criminal caught with his hands deeply into the public till.

Believe what you like, but don't imagine this post changes many minds,

because you SAY you are from Montenegro, and this is suddenly enlightening.

[lensta]

Looks like he's inspecting a construction site in Montenegro:

He is looking older, I guess its all starting to catch up with him. Payback is a B@tch!!!

And now for something more interesting, who is the girl on his arm in pic 3

[Montenegrin]

Well I am not claiming to be from Montenegro-I AM FROM MONTENEGRO-northern part of it to be precise.If there is any of you who speaks Montenegrin(Crnogorski),Serbian(Srpski),Bosnian(Bosanski) ili Croatian(Hrvatski) I will be glad to prove my words.It is basicly all the same language.

Hills behind Shinavatra on that picture are called Orjen and Rumija,btw.

I dont know,it seems to me that Sinavtras arguments are not that bad and no it is not translated to Montenegrin-I read it on internet(BBC profile of Sinavatra among others).

[metisdead]

And now for something more interesting, who is the girl on his arm in pic 3

His daughter.

[lannarebirth]

Hi,

I am from Montenegro and searching Google for Sinavatra I found this forum .

Two things confuse me.

First,It is obvious that he has people behind him,he won every elections fair and square.

I mean,you overthrown him by coup d'etat,than his allies won elections organized by military junta,you then overthrow his allies and installed government that has less than 35% of support and you are talking about democracy?!I dont understand why dont your goverment organize elections and win if they have people support.If not-they shoud not be goverment,dont you agree?

Secondly,you are calling him criminal based on conviction that has clear political background and issue warrant for his arrest that is not recognized by Interpol

Sorry,but strange things are going on.

p.s. my country surely didnt give him citizenship entirely on its on.We certainly didnt do this without asking USA and EU,because although we are not formally members of NATO and EU we follow their policies thoroughly.With our passport he do not need visa to enter EU countries,so it would be interesting to see what would happen if he tries to do that

Also,our law does not permit dual-citizenship except in special cases when national interests are at stake.

Surely a serb can understand that one can be democratically elected and still be a madman who abuses power and commits crimes against humanity. Forgotten Milosevic and Karadzic already?

[Jonathanpattaya]

Why doesn't he do the Oozlum bird trick?

He always looks like a squashed tomato to me.

[Montenegrin]

I am not Serb,I am Montenegrin.I didnt forget Slobo and Karadzic,but they were not democraticly elected.Milosevic banned media that wrote against him,violently suppressed any kind of opposition,even killing some of his rivals.But it is not the point,Serbia under Milosevic was not democracy and it was bombed by NATO at the end.On the other hand Thailand claims to be democracy or not?

If I am not wrong democracy=demos(people)+cratein(to rule)-rule of the people.If more than 60% of voters supported Taksin in elections,than he should be prime minister.Am I right or wrong?

And I forgot-you can not seriously compare Taksin and his crimes with Milosevic and especially Karadzic?