PM Abhisit Questions Thaksin's Role As Leader Of 'Class War'

[ballpoint]

This looks like a useless discussion but:

I'm not sure what your native language is but when you question the voracity of one's statement of an observation without reason or evidence, that is known as an attack.

Despite your condescension, I am amazed that you are capable of judging what I observed or what it meant.

As an earlier poster pointed out there are many poor and upcountry people living in Bangkok. Perhaps these were the supporters or even perhaps other Bangkokians who feel some sympathy for those people. I really don't know why they are supportive but the point was they appeared supportive.

I really don't want to continue this tit for tat unless you have some useful facts.

As I said earlier hopefully we'll see some reputable journalists corroborating my observations.

It would be nice if you had some facts to contribute.

Regards,

Who's questioning your observations? Yes, there are a lot of people standing on the side of the road, waving. Well done. Gold star for awareness. Pat on the back, and all that. But to then expect any right thinking person to believe that the majority of a city of over 10 million people are able to stand on the side of the road at once just beggars belief. You made a ridiculous conclusion to your observation, and were called up on it. Have you seen the amount of space the 100,000, if that many, took up on Rachadamnoen Avenue? Any idea how much space 5 million people would take up on the side of the road? And how about these reputable journalists randomly asking protestors and "bystanders" exactly why they are doing it, what the red leaders hope to achieve, and what, in their opinion, would be the best policy for the next government to implement?

(Edit) - I just did a quick calculation. Assume one person takes up an area 0.5m x 0.5m, and they are arranged 4 deep. That gives 16 people per 2m length of road frontage. In order to get 5,000,000 standing along the road you would need 312,500 of these 2m squares, meaning it would have to be 625km long, or 312 if both sides were used. As I haven't observed people packed that tightly along the entire route, I must conclude that your conjecture is false.

Edited March 20, 2010 by ballpoint

[monkfish]

Is Thaksin an ammart or a phrai? He was prime minister and super-rich. Over the five years Khun Thaksin was prime minister, the country saw public debts increase twofold while his wealth rose twofold.

Strange line of argument from Mr Abhisit does this mean if you are rich you cannot represent the poor?

Should only the poor represent the poor and only the rich represent the rich?

surely this is parting classes and not uniting them?

Anyway Thaksin was once PM of Thailand.

Thailand no longer has social classes called ammart and phrai. People are equal under the Constitution although they have unequal opportunities," the premier told TV Channel 5, referring to the terms used by Thaksin and his red-shirt supporters.

At least Abhisit recognises there are class issues in Thailand.

Abhisit said that in addition to implementing policies aimed at reducing economic gaps between people in society, his government is pushing for the introduction of the country's first land and property tax.

So what's he going to do about it? land and property Tax? will solve the issues? What other policies exactly?

The only thing I am aware of are increased Tax on Cigarettes Alcohol and Gasoline.

One of the things that brought the UK aristocracy to its knees was "Inheritance Tax" he should try that?

Say on inheritances above 10MB That would make him very popular.

Actions are needed not just talk and more hubs.

Edited March 20, 2010 by monkfish

[lannarebirth]

If only ignorance could be taxed, what a boon to the state's coffers that would be.

Edited March 20, 2010 by lannarebirth

[khunjamespittman]

hmmmmm I am capable of seeing the news including what is on People TV --- it is obvious that the "vast part" of Bangkokians are not doing what you are suggesting. In fact, it would be fair to say that just a tiny part almost miniscule part are out showing any support of the reds at all!

We can be grateful that the "vast part" of Bangkokians are listening to the mayor and not going out to show their displeasure and the followers of Thaksin screwing up the weekend

PS --- you haven't contributed any facts yourself, just some rather biased observations. Strange that People TV isn't showing what YOU claim to have seen

JD, you maybe right in all your observations. I am unable to judge what I did not observe. It sounds like your observations were not first-hand, ie your mention of watching on TV.

I also point out that you are not capable of judging what I observed nor what I might conclude from that observation.

I believe a personally observed event is factual. You obviously do not.

I wouldn't know what People TV is showing. I might add it is not really pertinent. My post was about my observations. What was it mentioned for?

What in my statement is biased. 1. we were told Bangkokians would be angry and might attack the demonstrators (I observed no anger or attacks.) 2. most of the bystanders many of whom I would expect to be Bangkokians were waving and cheering on the demonstrators. Where is the bias? Those are factual observations.

Please, if you are going to challenge the veracity of a person's statement try to add something worthwhile that adds to knowledge in the forum. Don't just throw out the same tired old mantra about red bias or some TV station. It is counter-productive.

I am not red. I am not yellow. I have no color affiliations. My only hope is that the insults and name calling will stop and the wrongs be corrected so that all Thais will be treated equally and the country can return to peace and become prosperous again.

I hope you have similar goals.

Regards,

[kimamey]

If you were brought up in Eton college, you would probably have a funny English accent also.

I think he was born in Newcastle but he doesn't seem to have much of a Geordie accent.

[craigt3365]

Watching the parade in Bangkok now, one get's the idea that the vast part of the Bangkokians support the movement. They seem to be very supportive of the demonstrators. They are waving the hands and cheering the demonstrators on.

Very interesting we were told the Bangkokians would be angry and even in the face of support shown by the Bangkokians for the demonstrators the news media would still have us believe that Bangkokians are against the demonstrators.

Resist believing the media spin. Make up your own mind. It appears that the majority of the Bangkokians are giving their support.

I did see a report earlier about some Bangkok locals being cleared out by security as they jeered the procession. Security is tight....I am sure a bunch of folks in BKK would love these guys to give it up.

[rixalex]

I believe a personally observed event is factual. You obviously do not.

For the upteemth time, nobody is questioning was you observed, we are questioning your conclusions highlighted in red below:

Watching the parade in Bangkok now, one get's the idea that the vast part of the Bangkokians support the movement. They seem to be very supportive of the demonstrators. They are waving the hands and cheering the demonstrators on.

Very interesting we were told the Bangkokians would be angry and even in the face of support shown by the Bangkokians for the demonstrators the news media would still have us believe that Bangkokians are against the demonstrators.

Resist believing the media spin. Make up your own mind. It appears that the majority of the Bangkokians are giving their support.

I am not red. I am not yellow. I have no color affiliations.

Anyone who has been reading your posts over the last few weeks will i think find that hard to believe.

My only hope is that the insults and name calling will stop and the wrongs be corrected so that all Thais will be treated equally and the country can return to peace and become prosperous again.

Toughen up a bit. Nobody has called you names. Nobody has attacked you. You have made conclusions from the snap-shot you have seen and people are questioning that conclusion. That's all.

[WAERTH]

Watching the parade in Bangkok now, one get's the idea that the vast part of the Bangkokians support the movement. They seem to be very supportive of the demonstrators. They are waving the hands and cheering the demonstrators on.

Very interesting we were told the Bangkokians would be angry and even in the face of support shown by the Bangkokians for the demonstrators the news media would still have us believe that Bangkokians are against the demonstrators.

Resist believing the media spin. Make up your own mind. It appears that the majority of the Bangkokians are giving their support.

Ermmmm Look again .... the "crowds supporting them are only one line thin ..... a couple of 10.000's nothing more. I life on Ratchada and had to go through them. It looks big but if you start counting it is a lot less than it looks!

W

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Just got back from "parade observing". Thanks to my motorbike i was able tio "go with the parade" from Sukhumvit soi 71 to Rama IV, there i positioned myself and took about one hour of video clips. My observations:

- The whole thing is like a huge party. Many of the pickups play music, people dance.

- HUGE crowds on the sidewalks cheer the parade, most of them wear red. This is specially the case at intersections.

- Almost all of the pickups and cars in the parade have Bangkok license plates

- The parade observes traffic rules, but at certain points police and the reds' security personnel overrule traffic lights

- Normal traffic mixes with the parade which moves at "fast walking pace", no roads are actually blocked

- The reds are peaceful and helpful, too - as i was sitting down beside my bike while videoing, several came asking if i'm alright (was sitting in the sun)

Best regards.....

Thanh

PS - this was the first time i rode about 25 kilometers across Bangkok almost exclusively on the right-hand lane, passing countless cops - and was NOT stopped for riding on the right-hand lane

Edited March 20, 2010 by Thanh-BKK

[yoshiwara]

Watching the parade in Bangkok now, one get's the idea that the vast part of the Bangkokians support the movement.

Does one really?

Do you know what the population of Bangkok is? Do you think that you are qualified to conclude having seen a few hands being waved that the "vast part of Bangkokians support the movement"? !

I think if that were true, bearing in mind today is a Saturday with many people off work, and bearing in mind that it's right on people's doorsteps, the city would be teeming. It is not. Media isn't the only outlet capable of spin.

Watch the spin machine now. Attacking the observer and making excuses to recover their propaganda.

I challenge the Nation reporters to report what is actually happening on the street and what I observed personally. Even that, though will probably not silence those who will attack anybody or anything that threatens their ego.

Bring it on. I am just wishing for peace and equality for all Thais and see the country return to respect and prosperity and hoping that cooler heads will find a way to correct the wrongs and get there.

Pass the bag Alice.

You are just looking for cute ways to back up your hero Thaksin.

Looking for the high ground when you are an ideological bagman for Thaksin can't be easy.

[jayboy]

What in my statement is biased. 1. we were told Bangkokians would be angry and might attack the demonstrators (I observed no anger or attacks.) 2. most of the bystanders many of whom I would expect to be Bangkokians were waving and cheering on the demonstrators. Where is the bias? Those are factual observations.

Regards,

You are right.There was a good deal of hysteria, partly whipped up by the government, about the prospect of violence.There wasn't any.Possibly some members are disappointed at this.

My guess is that most people in Bangkok are somewhat irritated at the inconvenience of the Red incursion but there's been no evidence of violent animosity against the Reds, indeed a surprising degree of support (i wouldn't say a majority though)

Basically there are a quite a few on this forum who were hoping for trouble and in some cases predicting it.They are looking foolish now.

[jayboy]

Pass the bag Alice.

You are just looking for cute ways to back up your hero Thaksin.

Looking for the high ground when you are an ideological bagman for Thaksin can't be easy.

Another example of the irritated apologists for authoritarianism, disappointed there was a non violent and peaceful assembly.

And when in doubt drag in Thaksin (the normal substitute for hard thinking about a complex subject), accuse your critics of being in his pay or in this case an "ideological bagman."

[Rob5060]

I may be wrong but wasn't it the Democrats or their supporters that said the votes

from the poor people of Thailand in an election should only be worth half a vote because

they are uneducated. Can't remember the exact wording so don't jump down my throat.

This doesn't sound like equality to me.

Hey you ARE correct (in that you said you may be wrong. Not only did the Democrats not say that ... nobody said that.

Wow, you have read and heard everything that is written or said about politics in Thailand and more importantly you can remember it all. My humble self is in awe of such a memory. Unfortunately I am not in your league.

I wish i could remember where but I saw the quote too

I remember at the time thinking how much anger it would cause if in Europe or the US

[mauGR1]

May be right,or may be wrong.

If i was a Bangkokian i'd do the same.Be nice with your guests(uninvited)and hope they'll leave soon,so things get back to normal and i can go on with everyday life.

What in my statement is biased. 1. we were told Bangkokians would be angry and might attack the demonstrators (I observed no anger or attacks.) 2. most of the bystanders many of whom I would expect to be Bangkokians were waving and cheering on the demonstrators. Where is the bias? Those are factual observations.

Regards,

You are right.There was a good deal of hysteria, partly whipped up by the government, about the prospect of violence.There wasn't any.Possibly some members are disappointed at this.

My guess is that most people in Bangkok are somewhat irritated at the inconvenience of the Red incursion but there's been no evidence of violent animosity against the Reds, indeed a surprising degree of support (i wouldn't say a majority though)

Basically there are a quite a few on this forum who were hoping for trouble and in some cases predicting it.They are looking foolish now.

[jdinasia]

What in my statement is biased. 1. we were told Bangkokians would be angry and might attack the demonstrators (I observed no anger or attacks.) 2. most of the bystanders many of whom I would expect to be Bangkokians were waving and cheering on the demonstrators. Where is the bias? Those are factual observations.

Regards,

You are right.There was a good deal of hysteria, partly whipped up by the government, about the prospect of violence.There wasn't any.Possibly some members are disappointed at this.

My guess is that most people in Bangkok are somewhat irritated at the inconvenience of the Red incursion but there's been no evidence of violent animosity against the Reds, indeed a surprising degree of support (i wouldn't say a majority though)

Basically there are a quite a few on this forum who were hoping for trouble and in some cases predicting it.They are looking foolish now.

Many people thought there would be violence. Why? Do the names Arisman and Sae Daeng ring a bell with you? Do you remember Songkran last year? Chiang Mai? The published threats?

I STILL expect trouble before this is said and done. The government did a good job of suggesting people stay off the streets AND the reds backed off their plan to mess with the skytrain and subway. If they tie things up on Monday I think i will very likely get uglier.

As for "hoping for trouble", there are certainly unstable people all over. Most of them seem to be Reds though.

Support? I watched People TV and ASTV for awhile and saw very little "support" but hey .....

As for your remarks about people bringing Thaksin into this (different unquoted post) --- hey, Thaksin and his cronies bring him into this. I just point it out.

[jdinasia]

I may be wrong but wasn't it the Democrats or their supporters that said the votes

from the poor people of Thailand in an election should only be worth half a vote because

they are uneducated. Can't remember the exact wording so don't jump down my throat.

This doesn't sound like equality to me.

Hey you ARE correct (in that you said you may be wrong. Not only did the Democrats not say that ... nobody said that.

Wow, you have read and heard everything that is written or said about politics in Thailand and more importantly you can remember it all. My humble self is in awe of such a memory. Unfortunately I am not in your league.

I wish i could remember where but I saw the quote too

I remember at the time thinking how much anger it would cause if in Europe or the US

Try looking on Thaksin's website, or that of the UDD or DAAD You may find someone attributing something simliar to the Democrats but you certainly won't find them having said it

[Sojourner]

Thaksin never could compete and win in an open economy. He made all his money while the government gave AIS exclusive rights for the mobile phone market here in LOS. Same with his satellite. When he had to compete with the likes of Orange and the others, he wanted to sell his business, but had to change the law so he could find a buyer. Always a plus when you have the deck stacked in your favor

[Bakeman]

Well Thaksin was educated in Texas. You can't really expect much from him.

Where you were educated has nothing to do with personal or political agenda's. Be kind with your words for you may offend someone.

Texas Grad.

[jayboy]

I STILL expect trouble before this is said and done.

Well perhaps you and people who think like you won't be disappointed after all.

[jdinasia]

I STILL expect trouble before this is said and done.

Well perhaps you and people who think like you won't be disappointed after all.

Nice of you to have cut out all the rest of that post ....

You should be proud! After all the rest pointed out so much that would explain WHY people would expect violence out of the reds and your little quip making seem like I would be disappointed by trouble not occuring changed the whole meaning of what was written. This, I assume, is why editing posts is frowned upon particularly when the intent is to skew the meaning.

Then again it must be rough being a supporter of the Reds and Thaksin and being confronted by the violence of the past AND the recent threats made by red leadership. Then to try and disassociate the reds from Thaksin but to have them constantly referring to him AND having him phone-in to them daily ... well .. that must be quite wearing!

Good on you! Job well done!

[siampolee]

Soujourner.

So correct in your comments. Remember how Thaksin did the dirty on his American partner reference some cable T.V. deal ?

When the guy arrived here to state his case in court he had to engage bodyguards due to threats being made on his life.

Remember how DEMOCRATIC FREE SPEECH CHAMPION THAKSIN sued journalists and others who spoke out against him (Thaksin ) for huge sums of money.

Thaksin has the cheek to call a class war.

Thaksin and his cronies are only looking to their own self interests not those of the common man and woman.

As my mum in law ( a typical Surin farmers wife ) says

'' Thaksin spent our money saying it was his and for every 100 baht he spent we paid back 500 baht to him ''

Those old country folk are not as gullible or simple minded as one would think, certainly in my wife's home village Thaksin is reviled as is the case in a lot of other villages in the area.

Edited March 20, 2010 by siampolee

[Pakboong]

Is Thaksin an ammart or a phrai? He was prime minister and super-rich. Over the five years Khun Thaksin was prime minister, the country saw public debts increase twofold while his wealth rose twofold.

Strange line of argument from Mr Abhisit does this mean if you are rich you cannot represent the poor?

Should only the poor represent the poor and only the rich represent the rich?

surely this is parting classes and not uniting them?

Anyway Thaksin was once PM of Thailand.

Thailand no longer has social classes called ammart and phrai. People are equal under the Constitution although they have unequal opportunities," the premier told TV Channel 5, referring to the terms used by Thaksin and his red-shirt supporters.

At least Abhisit recognises there are class issues in Thailand.

Abhisit said that in addition to implementing policies aimed at reducing economic gaps between people in society, his government is pushing for the introduction of the country's first land and property tax.

So what's he going to do about it? land and property Tax? will solve the issues? What other policies exactly?

The only thing I am aware of are increased Tax on Cigarettes Alcohol and Gasoline.

One of the things that brought the UK aristocracy to its knees was "Inheritance Tax" he should try that?

Say on inheritances above 10MB That would make him very popular.

Actions are needed not just talk and more hubs.

What about a Hi So tax? I don't really know how you define a Hi So but the Hi Sos seem to know who they are and based upon what is said about them on this forum, it seems likely they would gladly pay a tax to be properly recognized.

Lets say that no individual could be called a Hi So without having paid this tax.

It also seems that a very high tax rate would be appropriate here.

Then there is the problem of making fake copies of the Hi So certificate and selling them to Hi So wannabes in the markets.

Oh Well, I guess taxing the purchase of their new Ferrari is the best tax method for them after all. Hard to copy a new Ferrari and they just have to have one. They do seem unusually pleased to pay this tax. Pretty much as if the tax being removed would not be welcomed. Go figure.

It also seems like a politician could just double or triple this tax without giving much thought to it.

[rixalex]

Basically there are a quite a few on this forum who were hoping for trouble and in some cases predicting it.They are looking foolish now.

Name them then.

[gemini81]

Abhisit's doing great. Hard to do good in this environment, politically or economically. Thaksin saying "you" robbed me of 40M Baht. Ha! More like he robbed it from the citizens of Thailand...he did earn money because he has a brain. He is dang smart. Too bad he opted to use corruption to enhance his wealth instead of good ol' business logic...not so smart after all I guess? Can't wait until he fades away...

Abhisit is doing well indeed when you think of the cards stacked against him, the pressure. he keeps his cool and rationale.

haha, on the other hand, a man who honks his own horn about how great his brain is. most leaders show how they are good through their actions, not self praise.

still can't get over those quotes the other day from the man in exile who made hitler comparisions! Man, ever time this guy opens his mouth..........nothing but rubbish!

At least Abhisit is trying hard to improve, and ADMITS his mistakes and admits nothing is perfect.

[gemini81]

Well Thaksin was educated in Texas. You can't really expect much from him.

Where you were educated has nothing to do with personal or political agenda's. Be kind with your words for you may offend someone.

Texas Grad.

well hey, its not even like he went to harvard, princeton, cambridge..or anything you would expect from the "elite" or "highly gifted" as he makes it out to be. if he's so clever, why would he go to a mediocre or state college? Speaks for itself.

Yeah there are some good schools in texas...prolly too good for Thaksin. ......BTW, did you ever read his thesis? Most 5th year ESL students could write a better one, without even paying someone to write it for 'em

[seri thai]

If only ignorance could be taxed, what a boon to the state's coffers that would be.

....If only wealth could be taxed, what a greater boon to the state's coffers that would be!

If that tax were spent only on education to alleviate ignorance what a boon to the state that would be.

[spirit47]

Soujourner.

So correct in your comments. Remember how Thaksin did the dirty on his American partner reference some cable T.V. deal ?

When the guy arrived here to state his case in court he had to engage bodyguards due to threats being made on his life.

Remember how DEMOCRATIC FREE SPEECH CHAMPION THAKSIN sued journalists and others who spoke out against him (Thaksin ) for huge sums of money.

Thaksin has the cheek to call a class war.

Thaksin and his cronies are only looking to their own self interests not those of the common man and woman.

As my mum in law ( a typical Surin farmers wife ) says

'' Thaksin spent our money saying it was his and for every 100 baht he spent we paid back 500 baht to him ''

Those old country folk are not as gullible or simple minded as one would think, certainly in my wife's home village Thaksin is reviled as is the case in a lot of other villages in the area.

40 Billion Bath stolen, he said, so what he do for the poor people all the time he save the money?!

All I see is a funny party and it's ok, I don't want this land fall back in military hands only, and one thing must be clear,

whoever have the power, for the people will nothing be changed!

That is the rule of the game, allways show and the show must go on...

[Pakboong]

If only ignorance could be taxed, what a boon to the state's coffers that would be.

....If only wealth could be taxed, what a greater boon to the state's coffers that would be!

If that tax were spent only on education to alleviate ignorance what a boon to the state that would be.

We tried busing poor kids to US schools in the better neighborhoods. It was a dismal failure in every respect.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Pakboong

[lannarebirth]

If only ignorance could be taxed, what a boon to the state's coffers that would be.

....If only wealth could be taxed, what a greater boon to the state's coffers that would be!

If that tax were spent only on education to alleviate ignorance what a boon to the state that would be.

We tried busing poor kids to US schools in the better neighborhoods. It was a dismal failure in every respect.

I never get the emoticons right. I was referring to the post before mine. Not Thai people. *Not sure which emoticon goes here*

[moresomekl]

I may be wrong but wasn't it the Democrats or their supporters that said the votes

from the poor people of Thailand in an election should only be worth half a vote because

they are uneducated. Can't remember the exact wording so don't jump down my throat.

This doesn't sound like equality to me.

Yes heard the same , i think it was during the BKK airport take over , not sure