Why Don't Thai Mothers Teach Their Daughters?

[IanForbes]

Q. What do you call good Cathioliocs who use the 'safe period?'

A. Parents.

It was made very clear to my daughter that if she became pregnant she would not receive any assistance from my wife or myself. We made the point that if she now considered herself adult enough to become a mother then what went with that was taking responsibility for her actions. That's what adults do. No more trips to the local palais de danse with her friends as she would be washing baby's nappies and doing the ironing, quite apart from we not baby sitting. She could look forward to waking up in the middle of the night to tend to the child's needs etc etc. We had our two children when quite young and had fulfilled all our responsibilities and obligations towards them; now it was our time to live it up a bit. My son was told that if he got a girl pregnant that he could expect to have an immediate change of address if he didn't act responsibly.

I don't know if we could have been as hard hearted as that really but the caution was certainly taken on board.

Good post. We did exactly the same thing, Bagwan... and it worked. But, both my wife and I were in agreement in how to deal with it. So were most of my friends. We didn't deny the kids having sex, but insisted that they did it responsibly.

[needforspeed]

Q. What do you call good Cathioliocs who use the 'safe period?'

A. Parents.

It was made very clear to my daughter that if she became pregnant she would not receive any assistance from my wife or myself. We made the point that if she now considered herself adult enough to become a mother then what went with that was taking responsibility for her actions. That's what adults do. No more trips to the local palais de danse with her friends as she would be washing baby's nappies and doing the ironing, quite apart from we not baby sitting. She could look forward to waking up in the middle of the night to tend to the child's needs etc etc. We had our two children when quite young and had fulfilled all our responsibilities and obligations towards them; now it was our time to live it up a bit. My son was told that if he got a girl pregnant that he could expect to have an immediate change of address if he didn't act responsibly.

I don't know if we could have been as hard hearted as that really but the caution was certainly taken on board.

Easy to say at this time Bagwan,

But when your daughter is pregnant and brings a beautiful child on this world you going to change your mind, thats natural

Edited April 6, 2010 by needforspeed

[PeaceBlondie]

We stood by our pregnant daughters. They need your support.

[F1fanatic]

I doubt many can believe that Thai women have children when they are v young because they know nothing about sex, contraception etc.

I suspect that, being so young, they are desperate to fall in love and get married. Unfortunately they think that their b/f will marry them if they get pregnant and they will live happily ever after......, so they are more than happy to acquiesce to sex without a condom.

Once the inevitable happens, TOO many families send their daughters off to the tourist resorts to either make FAR more money than they could locally - by 'working' in a farang bar or if they're v lucky, find a farang to support them.

Similarly, getting AIDS is only something that happens to other people....

Ian - your first post said " The mother expects me to send them more money for the marriage." (my bold)

Your next post says " If people should try to make me into an ATM machine then they lose out and I end my help."

I think that following your own rules, its time to end your help.

Edited April 6, 2010 by F1fanatic

[IanForbes]

Ian - your first post said " The mother expects me to send them more money for the marriage." (my bold)

Your next post says " If people should try to make me into an ATM machine then they lose out and I end my help."

I think that following your own rules, its time to end your help.

I don't abandon anyone who I've undertaken to HELP support. I've been helping the same family for 6 years. But, that doesn't mean I'm an ATM machine to be milked every time the mother does something stupid... AGAIN. I'll continue to send them 6000 to 8000 baht each month. I've made that perfectly clear. Yes, there are many times I'd like to just walk away, but for the sake of two young ones (9 & 11) I won't do that until they are old enough to work on their own. I visit the family once or twice a year just to see how the little ones are doing. If the older girl is truly pregnant then her life will probably go down the toilet just like her mother's.

Hopefully, the little one's lives won't be the same. However, I DO know the family has benefitted from my charity. At least they now have a small business, and the trips I've taken with the family have shown them places they might not have experienced otherwise. The little girl (age 9) is a smart, cute kid who seems to be doing well at school, and at least SHE is making some attempt at learning English.

Just to explain my original post about walking away when people try to use me as an ATM machine, that is for other women I've tried to help. I've helped many of my lady friends with small amounts when I see they need it. They ask for a "loan", but I tell them I don't give out loans, but I WILL give them some money to help them through a time of need. I'm sure they think they will eventually pay me back, but knowing Thailand I also know that won't happen. It is only when I they start over doing it that I stop all further support. I am quite up front with our discussions and the few that value our friendship don't abuse my trust.

Edited April 6, 2010 by IanForbes

[F1fanatic]

Ian - your first post said " The mother expects me to send them more money for the marriage." (my bold)

Your next post says " If people should try to make me into an ATM machine then they lose out and I end my help."

I think that following your own rules, its time to end your help.

I don't abandon anyone who I've undertaken to HELP support. I've been helping the same family for 6 years. But, that doesn't mean I'm an ATM machine to be milked every time the mother does something stupid... AGAIN. I'll continue to send them 6000 to 8000 baht each month. I've made that perfectly clear. Yes, there are many times I'd like to just walk away, but for the sake of two young ones (9 & 11) I won't do that until they are old enough to work on their own. I visit the family once or twice a year just to see how the little ones are doing. If the older girl is truly pregnant then her life will probably go down the toilet just like her mother's.

Hopefully, the little one's lives won't be the same. However, I DO know the family has benefitted from my charity. At least they now have a small business, and the trips I've taken with the family have shown them places they might not have experienced otherwise. The little girl (age 9) is a smart, cute kid who seems to be doing well at school, and at least SHE is making some attempt at learning English.

I understand. But, the mother clearly views you as an ATM machine if she expects you to send them more of your money for the marriage of her daughter.

Its nice for you to know though that your money has helped the family set up a business etc. Presumably its not doing well enough to support their family but even so, with your money they are obviously doing well financially. One of the daughters obviously hasn't benefited from this extra income (pregnant far too young - like too many other young girls), but hopefully the other children will get a better education with the money and fare better.

Unfortunately (being a cynic) I suspect that showing the children places they might not have experienced otherwise will only show them that all farangs are v wealthy and the answer to all their problems......

[IanForbes]

Good points, F1fanatic. However, I believe in helping others help themselves. That can't be done by pure handouts alone and TOO MUCH money. It's only when they add their own hard work along with the charity that a poor Thai family can succeed. I've seen it happen with two friends of mine. Unfortunately, there are many who are not willing to work to succeed.

You are correct when you say that most poor Thais assume that all farangs are wealthy. Even when you tell them otherwise, they don't believe you aren't rich. I'm pretty good at knowing when I'm being scammed, and it doesn't really bother me. I expect it and even laugh at it. The poor have to use any means possible to get by... even if it means stealing or scamming friends. I've seen it many times between Thais themselves.

[Bagwan]

Q. What do you call good Cathioliocs who use the 'safe period?'

A. Parents.

It was made very clear to my daughter that if she became pregnant she would not receive any assistance from my wife or myself. We made the point that if she now considered herself adult enough to become a mother then what went with that was taking responsibility for her actions. That's what adults do. No more trips to the local palais de danse with her friends as she would be washing baby's nappies and doing the ironing, quite apart from we not baby sitting. She could look forward to waking up in the middle of the night to tend to the child's needs etc etc. We had our two children when quite young and had fulfilled all our responsibilities and obligations towards them; now it was our time to live it up a bit. My son was told that if he got a girl pregnant that he could expect to have an immediate change of address if he didn't act responsibly.

I don't know if we could have been as hard hearted as that really but the caution was certainly taken on board.

Easy to say at this time Bagwan,

But when your daughter is pregnant and brings a beautiful child on this world you going to change your mind, thats natural

That's emotional not natural. That 'beautiful child' is not going to upset the apple cart that my wife and I pushed. The responsibility for the infant would lay firmly on the shoulders of my daughter and her "Mr. Wonderful'.

[makescents]

It was made very clear to my daughter that if she became pregnant she would not receive any assistance from my wife or myself.

That's the most ridiculous and irresponsible thing I've read on this board.

[TAWP]

Look at the numbers in the west, its not allot different, just more abortions. Nobody wears condoms in the west or listens to what they are told at sex ed. Also there is more strategic pregnancies in the west, allot of girls like to cash in on the child support laws.

While US and the UK are very bad in this aspect, a lot of western nations are far ahead.

[kiwiinasia]

Why don't Thai mothers teach their daughters the facts of life?

Because they don't know what the facts are!

Doh!

[F1fanatic]

Why don't Thai mothers teach their daughters the facts of life?

Because they don't know what the facts are!

Doh!

I'm obviously being v slow here. Are you saying that the mothers don't know how pregnancies happen?

[Bagwan]

It was made very clear to my daughter that if she became pregnant she would not receive any assistance from my wife or myself.

That's the most ridiculous and irresponsible thing I've read on this board.

So you don't think that people should take responsibility for their actions? If so, you would empty out all the world's prisons because it wasn't the felons fault they were there? You think not using birth control is a good thing? You think it is perfectly OK for your daughter to be irresponsible and the result of her independent actions to have a long term effect upon the lives of her immediate family?

Let us assume that you are not Thai and have on occasions made use of the rear view mirror on your transport. In it you see a police car. It is a pound sterling to a piece of sh*t that the next thing you do is check your speedometer and that one of your direction indicators is not flashing. The mere presence of the cops is a warning and maybe an implied threat so you make sure you are obeying conventions. Does that analogy work for you?

I'll give you something else to ponder over. Both of our offspring were told on their 21st birthday that they had a month to find somewhere else to live. We had our kids when we very young and acted responsibly thereafter to ensure that there would be no other mouths to feed. Our kids had therefore all the resources as they grew as they needed, including our time and concern. They had lived under our roof, eaten and dressed well, been comforted and cuddled when necessary, taken to places of interest to further their education so as to equip them for their adult lives. Now the cocoon was broken, they were adults and they would have to find their own way in life. When they had children of their own they would come to realise the sacrifices that my wife and I had unselfishly made.

Both went reluctantly but have since said that we did the right thing. My son later said that any other way would have been similar to training hard all week and then not being picked to play on Saturday. They appreciated that we too had a life and wanted to savour the coffee. Conceptually my wife and I had satisfied the prime reason for living, i.e. ensuring the survival of our genes, and now it was all downhill and we intended to enjoy the ride.

I suspect that most grandparents are always pleased to see their grandchildren and to have the opportunity to fuss over them - but having them living in the same house would be a huge no no.

[IanForbes]

Although I think this thread has lasted long enough and everyone had their say, I agree totally with Bagwan's last post. Teaching children to be smart, strong, reliable and independent is one of the greatest things a parent can do... for not only the child but the whole world. Certainly a little help along the way is necessary once in a while, but the young adult has to know they are responsible for their own actions. People do better when they know there is a little help waiting to back them up if they get into unforseen difficulties, but they still have to do most of it on their own.

[PeaceBlondie]

We both stepped in to help our 17-year old and her younger 15-year old sister with their unplanned pregnancies by their future husbands. The in-laws also pitched in. The kids knew about birth control. Accidents happen. No abortions. The 17-year old had the baby during summer break and went to a fully paid scholarship at the best school in Texas. The younger stayed in school and she and husband earned GED's. If we had not helped, it would have been a disaster. Your mileage differs.

[F1fanatic]

We both stepped in to help our 17-year old and her younger 15-year old sister with their unplanned pregnancies by their future husbands. The in-laws also pitched in. The kids knew about birth control. Accidents happen. No abortions. The 17-year old had the baby during summer break and went to a fully paid scholarship at the best school in Texas. The younger stayed in school and she and husband earned GED's. If we had not helped, it would have been a disaster. Your mileage differs.

I suspect that your children are the exception rather than the norm.....

Too many young women (children?) in the West, have their child and then live the rest of their life in relative poverty.

They do not go back to school as they have a child to look after and their own parents are unable/unwilling to take over the task as its not the 'norm' to expect daughters to provide financially for their parents.

Unless they're VERY lucky (and have wealthy parents), they are unable to afford childcare when they have no income of their own. How can they go back to school with nobody to look after the child and no money to pay for childcare?

The (average?) young mother is far too young to give up her life to look after the children, so she goes out partying, just praying that the child will be fine - or, resents the child destroying her young adult life when she should be partying, going out with others and generally living the life of her peers. Bad scenario in either case.

At least in Thailand the mother of the pregnant daughter will step in and bring up the child. Not exactly ideal, as they expect the daughter to go and earn money in the tourist resorts to support both her child and the parents...... but its better (?) than the options for (poor) young women in the West.

[catmac]

Why are you mouthing of at Thai culture when you have the likes of the catholics that say no condoms while they protect there own that molest children?

Could it have something to do with the name of this forum being "THAIvisa", and not "The Catholic Herald"?

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, we had strong family values. Taught them birth control. Didn't kick them out. Let the fathers know we loved them. First father-in-law was eldest of 15 children. She lived there while attending uni. Second grand-parents had both their kids by 17, and took her in. We don't abandon our kids.

[F1fanatic]

Yes, we had strong family values. Taught them birth control. Didn't kick them out. Let the fathers know we loved them. First father-in-law was eldest of 15 children. She lived there while attending uni. Second grand-parents had both their kids by 17, and took her in. We don't abandon our kids.

Precisely. As I said in my previous post both your daughters were v lucky. They are the exception rather than the norm.

Most single mothers aren't in a position to continue with their education.

[hawthorne]

Again and again...Thais are not so different than our own countries. How many mothers in our own lands discussed getting laid by Johnny? How to properly install a condom? Most people in Thialand come from Rural lands and see and know how animals reproduce. The same when western worlds were mostly agrarian societies. In the country side not much to do but have sex when dating. High school kids have fires, listen to music, mud bogs, drink and have sex in the woods. Maybe in the states they grow some good weed when growing up on the farm.

Thailand is no different. Some culture is different but the core of the human being is the same IMHO.