Wife Having A Hard Time Changing Her Last Name

[kwando]

Hello everyone, there seems to be a lot of useful information here. A little background...

I am a US Citizen

Wife is a Thai Citizen. She has a GC.

We married in the US (state of CO). Her current passport will expire in June 2010.

She is currently in Thailand because of a death in the family, so she is trying to change the last name on her Thai ID. So she can change her last name to her married name.

They are giving her the run-around. She has our marriage certificate, but they are saying that she cannot change it because it is not translated. So she got the document translated, and still cannot change it because of property.

Is there an easier way to get this done? She has visited 6 different offices in Bangkok and Mae Sai and is not getting any progress. She is very fustrated and is on the verge of giving up and applying to be a US citizen.

Any help is appreciated.

Simon

[Guest]

If she owns property, its an extra complication over laws relating to Thai women who own property marrying a foreigner. I believe she may have to transfer the property to others. Also, the marriage would need to be registered in Thailand. All legal documents must have the same surnames on them, and under Thai law she can keep her old surname if she wishes.

[RegularReader]

Kwando, I'm sure there are others more qualified than me on this forum who can provide more practical advice, but my wife changed her name last year to my family name. There was a bit of running around to get the right paperwork and have it translated into Thai, but once all was in place, it was very straight forward.

It could have been a bit easier because we did it in our local area in Bangkok, where my wife owns our house. So maybe that is causing your wife a problem seeing as you live in the US.

I don't quite understand your comment on "property", what do you mean ?

[RegularReader]

If she owns property, its an extra complication over laws relating to Thai women who own property marrying a foreigner. I believe she may have to transfer the property to others. Also, the marriage would need to be registered in Thailand. All legal documents must have the same surnames on them, and under Thai law she can keep her old surname if she wishes.

Pauln it used to be the case with property ownership, but that changed a few years ago. Also at the time my wife changed her name our marriage was not registered in Thailand - we married in Hong Kong.

[opalhort]

If she owns property, its an extra complication over laws relating to Thai women who own property marrying a foreigner. I believe she may have to transfer the property to others.

This is incorrect info!

The laws changed about 15 years ago. A Thai wife of a foreigner can own as much land as she wants but in case of a new purchase she may have to provide evidence that the funds are her own and did not originate from the foreign husband.

But yes she'll have to register her marriage here in Thailand first in order to change her name.

opalhort

[sarahsbloke]

It's a lot easier if you get married in Thailand as the lady gets to choose her new name during the Amphur wedding and is given an official document with that new name on it.

To change her name she goes to the Amphur office she is registered at (in her Tabien Ban blue book), with Marriage cert, Name certificate, Tabien Ban book and her original ID card. Cost is about 70bht and done while you wait (new photo taken along with both thumb prints)

I'm pretty sure that with a foreign marriage certificate you will need a translation into Thai, and possibly countersigned by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok. This will give her a new surname in Thai script which will be used in all future Thai documentation.

[Guest]

Thanks to those who corrected my misinformation - I'm well behind the times

[monkfish]

I made my wife change her name and now that we live in Thailand I wish I hadn't.

She is treated differently by Thai's just because of this.

[lopburi3]

1. Marriage document must be certified by the US Embassy and than translated and then registered with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Translation service should know the procedure.

2. Then that is taken to District Office to register the marriage - once that is done a new ID card can be issued and home register updated.

3. Property should not be a problem but many "officials" don't have much understanding of such issues. New purchase would require that she declare money was hers alone and that you sign your understanding that it is not joint property.

[InterestedObserver]

The US Embassy, actually Consulate, will not certify US origin documents. However, they will issue an affidavit of marriage whereby the husband and wife affirm (take an oath) that they are in fact married. That affidavit is then translated into Thai and certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The marriage can then be registered at any Amphur.

[Gary A]

My Thai wife changed her last name right after we were married. I didn't know she was going to do that and was a bit surprised. She had asked me and I told her it was up to her. Nothing more was said about it. She first changed her ID card, then went to the Amphur to change her name and add mine to her property. She was quite upset that they refused to put my name on her land paper. I had to tell her that a farang was not allowed to own property other than a condo in Thailand. Other than that, there were no problems.

[DTiger]

A little detail, no one talked about which may be important. It seems - as far as I understand after 5 years around here - that thai women may change their family name. But change means change, not as some countries do, having maiden name and spouse name.

That's why - for the fun part - my wife took my "farang" family name, and added her previous family name as a middle name ( 2 different operations, so probably 140 bahts as some said).

And except for some comments from dumb people, everything went, and still go, perfectly fine.

[ShugNorris]

If you get married in Thailand but don't change the name on the marriage certificate at that time, can you change it afterwards? I know it says above but that's referring to people who marry abroad.

I mean after we got married we wanted to get the VISA sorted out pretty quickly and changing name on documents/passport etc would have been pretty time consuming so we just didn't bother.

If my wife applied for UK citizenship at a later date could she change her name in the UK only and keep her Thai passport and effectively have a UK name and a Thai name?

I have heard information as quoted above that they will get treated differently in Thailand.

What way round the property ownership rule are there? I mean I would buy a house but obviously transfer the cash to her to buy it/own it? (Well, I've considered it) but how do they prove it's their own funds? Is transferring the cash to them as a 'gift' an acceptable method?

Sorry, perhaps slightly off topic but issues raised from this thread!

Thanks

Shug

[DTiger]

If you get married in Thailand but don't change the name on the marriage certificate at that time, can you change it afterwards?

It's always afterward anyway. as it has in fact nothing to do with the marriage. Thai people can change first name and family name any time they want, with just - sometimes - some explanations, marriage is good one of course. But they can do that just because they believe they will get luckier :-)

[MJo]

If you get married in Thailand but don't change the name on the marriage certificate at that time, can you change it afterwards? I know it says above but that's referring to people who marry abroad.

I mean after we got married we wanted to get the VISA sorted out pretty quickly and changing name on documents/passport etc would have been pretty time consuming so we just didn't bother.

If my wife applied for UK citizenship at a later date could she change her name in the UK only and keep her Thai passport and effectively have a UK name and a Thai name?

I have heard information as quoted above that they will get treated differently in Thailand.

What way round the property ownership rule are there? I mean I would buy a house but obviously transfer the cash to her to buy it/own it? (Well, I've considered it) but how do they prove it's their own funds? Is transferring the cash to them as a 'gift' an acceptable method?

Sorry, perhaps slightly off topic but issues raised from this thread!

Thanks

Shug

Not sure about keeping two names. Could cause problems if you have two passports with different names.

Also i'm not sure what it means that "they" are treated differently. My wife get's the same or better service in amphur and other government offices than rest of the thais. We are in Bangkok and the service is actually fairly good in many offices like amphur, MFA, LTD etc etc. Maybe it's different in the villages at the sticks.

If you want house (includes land) you can not get it under your name as foreigner. You can buy the place for your wife though without any problems. It's not excatly that she has to proof the money is her's. What is needed is document signed at land office during the title transfer that you as foreign husband understand that the property is not part of common marital property and in case of divorce you get nothing out of it. And yes, in Thailand you can donate or give as much money to your wife as gift as you like. Nothing illegal in that. So give the money to your wife and she then buys the land. You sign the papers in land office and there you go. Your wife and you have complied to the law and the title is legally in your wife's name.

[kokesaat]

We married in '73 and my wife had her last name changed on her house paper to reflect my last name. We left the country, my wife became an American citizen, and we returned in '96 to live full time. My wife's id was out of date, so the first thing she had to do was get a new copy of her housepaper. Somehow, the housepaper didn't reflect her married name. She obtained a Thai ID card with her maiden name on it.

As she came over on an American passport and Thai visa like me, she has renewed her visa annually.....showing her US passport (with my last name) and her Thai ID with her maiden name. I swore it'd never fly, but she's never had a problem. Several years ago, she obtained a Thai passport, with her maiden name.

Amazing Thailand!

[kwando]

Wow, thanks for everyones reply. This forum is full of great information, I appreciate all the help.

Talked to her this morning, and she was able to get the US marriage certificate certified at the US embassy. Unfortunately the Thai offices are closed due to a national holiday. She plans to visit the Thai District office and we can hopefully put this in the past. It is her only form of document that is still under her maiden name. Will keep everyone updated!

Just a PITA that there is all the red shirt protest going on over there.

Have a great day

[ShadowDweller]

This is a great thread all, thanks for the info. My wife took my last name when we were married in the US and we are now in the planing stages to move to Bangkok. This thread could not have come at a better time.

[LuckyFive8888]

I made my wife change her name and now that we live in Thailand I wish I hadn't.

She is treated differently by Thai's just because of this.

oh really? my wife is not treated as such, well, as far as we know.

how they treat a person differently for just having a farang last name?

there are also many actors/actresses who also have farang last name and being treated well.

[InterestedObserver]

Talked to her this morning, and she was able to get the US marriage certificate certified at the US embassy. Unfortunately the Thai offices are closed due to a national holiday. She plans to visit the Thai District office and we can hopefully put this in the past.

Whatever document the US Consulate certified should be translated into Thai and then certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs before going to the District Office.

[MJo]

Talked to her this morning, and she was able to get the US marriage certificate certified at the US embassy. Unfortunately the Thai offices are closed due to a national holiday. She plans to visit the Thai District office and we can hopefully put this in the past.

Whatever document the US Consulate certified should be translated into Thai and then certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs before going to the District Office.

Correct, standard OPS in every government office regarding emabassy stamps. MFA in Chaeng Wattana needs the translation and then certifies the the translation along with embassy signatures.

Hope OP reads this on time before his wife makes another unnecessary trip to the district office.

[ubonrthai]

1. Marriage document must be certified by the US Embassy and than translated and then registered with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Translation service should know the procedure.

2. Then that is taken to District Office to register the marriage - once that is done a new ID card can be issued and home register updated.

3. Property should not be a problem but many "officials" don't have much understanding of such issues. New purchase would require that she declare money was hers alone and that you sign your understanding that it is not joint property.

I agree with lopburi. Just went through this not long ago. Just go with one of the translation services that stand outside the embassy.

[ubonrthai]

I made my wife change her name and now that we live in Thailand I wish I hadn't.

She is treated differently by Thai's just because of this.

oh really? my wife is not treated as such, well, as far as we know.

how they treat a person differently for just having a farang last name?

there are also many actors/actresses who also have farang last name and being treated well.

My wife has also not experienced this.

[jimky]

I got married a couple months ago in small town in Isaan (Ban Phue). Wife has property and had no problem registering the marriage, changing her last name and getting new ID. Entire process took about 30 minutes, I think maybe one or two people strolled in for small things here or there while we waited but for the most part it was dead and for much of it we were only two in the Amphur.

If she's really having the much trouble if you plan to visit Thailand in future maybe just wait and do it then together.

[kwando]

Update - She has her new ID card under her married name!!

Thanks EVERYONE for your help. If you are ever in Denver, CO LMK and we can show you the best Thai place in town.

[Arkady]

As others have mentioned the translation and consul's signature will need to be certified by the Consular Section of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Chaengwattana Road for the District Office to accept it. They now tell you it will take 3 working days but, if you go in the morning and tell them it's urgent, you can usually get it in the afternoon of the same day, if you pay extra, go in person and have a 30 second interview with the supervisor to explain why it's urgent.

There is nothing in the Land Code prohibiting Thai women married to foreigners from owning land. However, ministerial regulations did prevent this until 1999 when the regulation was revoked and replaced with new regulations that apply equally to Thai men and women married to foreigners. The current regulations require a declaration from the couple that the money used to buy the property was the Thai spouse's personal property and that the property will not be considered as part of the conjugal property (to be divided up in the event of divorce). With the declaration signed the Land Office officials are not required to make any investigations as to the source of the funds. If the declaration is not signed the couple is guilty of an offence under ministerial regulations that require disclosure of a foreign spouse and technically could be prosecuted for illegal purchase of land by foreigners through nominees under the Land Code, if the Thai spouse cannot prove the funds were her own. In practice no one is known to have been prosecuted for this and it is very hard to prove under Thai law that the funds were not joint property. Even if she has bought land without signing the declaration since being married, I would not worry about this. In any case, having a foreign surname has no bearing on this issue. It was a red flag to Land Dept officials before the regulations changed and many ignorant people still seem to think this applies.