House Dissolution Won't End Conflict : Anand

[anotherpeter]

I think it needs clarifying as some people squirm that "Thaksin" is Elite as well so whats the difference.

The difference is here, the Yellow, the "EE" "Established Elite" are the old school, those that deem power is theirs forever, and nobody can challenge them for it or take it away from them. Kind of like "old money and new money".

The likes of Thaksin are the "new money". Business men who now represent more of what politics around the world is moving to, movers and shakers who show little respect towards the old money as they deem them lazy and living off what their ancestors did as opposed to working for they position.

Before anyone can claim any different I am at NO stage talking about those that cannot be talked about. This post is nothing to do with them.

So this is a battle between the "Established Elite" in Yellow, and the Politicians in Red.

The Politicians in Red have risen in power and strength as they have brought in populist policies to help the poor.

The Established Elite in Yellow are bemused by the peasant uprising and want to control the situation and bring it back to being what it always has been, them in control and thats it.

The answer lies in the middle somewhere. As much as TRT and Thaksin did some immoral things, the Yellow Elite have now done since 2007 even more immoral things and the situation is that both are now as guilty as each other, however one is trying to convict one whilst ignoring what they are doing is exactly what they are attempting to convict the other of doing.

The best way for THailand to mature is just to let it happen, let the people use their votes and just let it be.

The EE need to step back and just accept this is 2010 and not 1910.

People only learn by making mistakes, so let them make mistake and let them learn. The EE are unwilling to let control go but they must if the country is ever to move forward.

Dissolve the House and let their be elections within a couple of months.

This is the most sane post that I have seen from you levelhead. (edit: but then you go and reply to your own post with more crap.)

The main problem with the reds message is they talk like it is ALL about the poor. But these protests (and similarly the yellow protests) are really a fight between Thaksin's (and his money) and the old money "elite" (probably including the heads of the army). The only reason the poor are even involved is because Thaksin worked out how to exploit their support.

IMO, the "elite" and the army are wanting to move towards a proper democracy, otherwise they would have never started this democracy thing in the first place.

The "elite" aren't against all new money, but they are against Thaksin. The reason that the "elite" is so against Thaksin is because he abused the democracy. He took the corruption too far. He removed or tried to remove the checks and balances, which are a major part of a proper democracy. He was stopped when he tried to put his people in at the top of the army. That would have given him all the power, with no checks and balances.

There are many things that still need fixing in Thailand. Corruption is the main thing. Education is important too. But it can't be done overnight. And it can't be done if Thaksin comes back.

Edited April 8, 2010 by anotherpeter

[Thai at Heart]

This is the most sane post that I have seen from you levelhead.

The main problem with the reds message is they talk like it is ALL about the poor. But these protests (and similarly the yellow protests) are really a fight between Thaksin's (and his money) and the old money "elite" (probably including the heads of the army). The only reason the poor are even involved is because Thaksin worked out how to exploit their support.

IMO, the "elite" and the army are wanting to move towards a proper democracy, otherwise they would have never started this democracy thing in the first place.

The "elite" aren't against all new money, but they are against Thaksin. The reason that the "elite" is so against Thaksin is because he abused the democracy. He took the corruption too far. He removed or tried to remove the checks and balances, which are a major part of a proper democracy. He was stopped when he tried to put his people in at the top of the army. That would have given him all the power, with no checks and balances.

There are many things that still need fixing in Thailand. Corruption is the main thing. Education is important too. But it can't be done overnight. And it can't be done if Thaksin comes back.

Problem is that discussing the "established" elite drags you into very delicate ground.

As for Thaksin, I don't subscribe to the fact that he was part of the EE at all. There are about 4 or 5 very large families that dominate the situation in Chiangmai and Shinawatra is one of them. I don't think there is a way to say he was or is considered "elite" by those that really matter. If nothing else, he started off in the police which makes him a complete outsider from the establishment.

As for these Chiangmai families projecting their position onto a national stage, one got very close and their name still pops up in politics, but I would say that as a rule, Thaksin got his place at the top table simply by having a ton of cash and he wanted to be at the top table. A lot has been written about New Money v Old Money split and it is very relevant but extremely difficult to discuss.

[anotherpeter]

In fact, had the Yellow EE just kept their noses out and not put in place a coup and all the troubles since, its quite likely Thaksin and the TRT would have been blamed for the financial crisis problems and would have been voted out in an election by now already.

However, the stupid Yellow have, rather than letting people learn and mature, interfered and created an even bigger problem than there was already.

The EE needs to stop meddling and let the people mature in the knowledge of Democracy, what it means and how important their vote is. Its not about education, its about experience.

House Dissolution now !! Its the only real answer.

If there hadn't been a coup, then Thaksin would still be in power.

He would have had control of the army, so there wouldn't be any protests against him, or they would be quickly shut down.

There wouldn't be any critical comments of him in the newspapers, because he would sue them all.

There wouldn't have been a chance to vote him out, because either he wouldn't hold elections, or, as was shown in the 2006 elections, they wouldn't be free or fair.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I can only say I hope so, but somewhere in the back of my mind I doubt it

Kudos to you for being honest... I only got a bit rattled because many Thais do make it (good for them!) and then 'forget' it was a farang that 'helped' them - not referring to your misses - but I see it so many times - I'm alright Jack type of thing and why don't you all do it? she was lucky - good on her - anyway I can see you 'understand' - cheers

[ChiangMaiFun]

In fact, had the Yellow EE just kept their noses out and not put in place a coup and all the troubles since, its quite likely Thaksin and the TRT would have been blamed for the financial crisis problems and would have been voted out in an election by now already.

However, the stupid Yellow have, rather than letting people learn and mature, interfered and created an even bigger problem than there was already.

The EE needs to stop meddling and let the people mature in the knowledge of Democracy, what it means and how important their vote is. Its not about education, its about experience.

House Dissolution now !! Its the only real answer.

If there hadn't been a coup, then Thaksin would still be in power.

He would have had control of the army, so there wouldn't be any protests against him, or they would be quickly shut down.

There wouldn't be any critical comments of him in the newspapers, because he would sue them all.

There wouldn't have been a chance to vote him out, because either he wouldn't hold elections, or, as was shown in the 2006 elections, they wouldn't be free or fair.

well - I made this point in another thread - anyway compromise based on a date for an election must be the only way out of this mess - I can't see any other solution frankly

[moresomekl]

In fact, had the Yellow EE just kept their noses out and not put in place a coup and all the troubles since, its quite likely Thaksin and the TRT would have been blamed for the financial crisis problems and would have been voted out in an election by now already.

However, the stupid Yellow have, rather than letting people learn and mature, interfered and created an even bigger problem than there was already.

The EE needs to stop meddling and let the people mature in the knowledge of Democracy, what it means and how important their vote is. Its not about education, its about experience.

House Dissolution now !! Its the only real answer.

If there hadn't been a coup, then Thaksin would still be in power.

He would have had control of the army, so there wouldn't be any protests against him, or they would be quickly shut down.

There wouldn't be any critical comments of him in the newspapers, because he would sue them all.

There wouldn't have been a chance to vote him out, because either he wouldn't hold elections, or, as was shown in the 2006 elections, they wouldn't be free or fair.

After the coup there should have been in a very short span of time (not one year) a general election in which Thaksin having to face the courts for his misdeed would have been disqualified of participating , while no banning of the TRT .

And who then wins , wins . Until the next election

That you dont like TRT , PPP or now PTP is pointless . If the majority of the thai people want them then they should be in power .

Thats democracy

[anotherpeter]

After the coup there should have been in a very short span of time (not one year) a general election in which Thaksin having to face the courts for his misdeed would have been disqualified of participating , while no banning of the TRT .

And who then wins , wins . Until the next election

That you dont like TRT , PPP or now PTP is pointless . If the majority of the thai people want them then they should be in power .

Thats democracy

Currently the majority of Thai people don't want them in power.

That's democracy.

[Thai at Heart]

After the coup there should have been in a very short span of time (not one year) a general election in which Thaksin having to face the courts for his misdeed would have been disqualified of participating , while no banning of the TRT .

And who then wins , wins . Until the next election

That you dont like TRT , PPP or now PTP is pointless . If the majority of the thai people want them then they should be in power .

Thats democracy

Currently the majority of Thai people don't want them in power.

That's democracy.

Currently, a majority of Members of the Thai Parliament don't want to join with them in power. That is a form of parliamentary democracy quite a few Thai people don't understand.

[clinique]

With the current dissent, disruption and opposing philosophies, the only way forward isa to call an election..

The people are supposed to elect a government.

If the people ( i dont mean the wealthy elite banding together to protect their positions) want change or have issues then new elections should be held to see who the electorate wants inpower. ( Im not suggesting T is the answer.)

If the curreny governmen tis so sur eof its self and has confidenc ein its majority then what is the problem ?? If that is the case and the majority of the electorate support them they we be back in office and the answer will be there for all to see ...

Hanging on just for the sake of hanging on, or as a power play, is just as egotistacal as T.

let the peole decide by ballot..Democracy in action..

[anotherpeter]

With the current dissent, disruption and opposing philosophies, the only way forward isa to call an election..

The people are supposed to elect a government.

If the people ( i dont mean the wealthy elite banding together to protect their positions) want change or have issues then new elections should be held to see who the electorate wants inpower. ( Im not suggesting T is the answer.)

If the curreny governmen tis so sur eof its self and has confidenc ein its majority then what is the problem ?? If that is the case and the majority of the electorate support them they we be back in office and the answer will be there for all to see ...

Hanging on just for the sake of hanging on, or as a power play, is just as egotistacal as T.

let the peole decide by ballot..Democracy in action..

And then in 6 months when a new group of 50,000 people are out protesting ... it's time for new elections.

[Thai at Heart]

Currently, a majority of Members of the Thai Parliament don't want to join with them in power. That is a form of parliamentary democracy quite a few Thai people don't understand.

(edited quote to strike out "Thai")

Fair enough I guess.

I didn't ever say I agreed with how it all came to pass, but that is the legal situation.

[LevelHead]

After the coup there should have been in a very short span of time (not one year) a general election in which Thaksin having to face the courts for his misdeed would have been disqualified of participating , while no banning of the TRT .

And who then wins , wins . Until the next election

That you dont like TRT , PPP or now PTP is pointless . If the majority of the thai people want them then they should be in power .

Thats democracy

Currently the majority of Thai people don't want them in power.

That's democracy.

No, the majority of Thai people do want them in power.

The elite have held biased (against PPP) elections that the PPP still won, so they then used the courts to dissolve them.

Elections, solves the problem.

Dissolve the House now and call elections in a couple of months.

Its simple.

But the Yellow Elite are still clinging on to power and want to change the rules to suit them by altering the constitution, ahead of the next election. What they are trying to do now, is what they accuse Thaksin of doing, even though he did not.

CAN YOU not see that ? Is your hate of Thaksin making you blind ? That is the whole Yellow propaganda campaign, invoke so much anti-Thaksin into everything that what really is going on will be hidden under it.

New Politics and the Yellow NPP should be watched, they are the most dangerous of them all. Any suggestion of "unity" government is the NPP and the Yellow elite getting their way.

Elections and now is the only solution, but that is the very thing the Yellow Elite do not want, they do not want the people to be able to choose the future, they want to control it and it can only be the future they want it to be.

[anotherpeter]

After the coup there should have been in a very short span of time (not one year) a general election in which Thaksin having to face the courts for his misdeed would have been disqualified of participating , while no banning of the TRT .

And who then wins , wins . Until the next election

That you dont like TRT , PPP or now PTP is pointless . If the majority of the thai people want them then they should be in power .

Thats democracy

Currently the majority of Thai people don't want them in power.

That's democracy.

No, the majority of Thai people do want them in power.

The elite have held biased (against PPP) elections that the PPP still won, so they then used the courts to dissolve them.

Elections, solves the problem.

Dissolve the House now and call elections in a couple of months.

Its simple.

But the Yellow Elite are still clinging on to power and want to change the rules to suit them by altering the constitution, ahead of the next election. What they are trying to do now, is what they accuse Thaksin of doing, even though he did not.

CAN YOU not see that ? Is your hate of Thaksin making you blind ? That is the whole Yellow propaganda campaign, invoke so much anti-Thaksin into everything that what really is going on will be hidden under it.

New Politics and the Yellow NPP should be watched, they are the most dangerous of them all. Any suggestion of "unity" government is the NPP and the Yellow elite getting their way.

Elections and now is the only solution, but that is the very thing the Yellow Elite do not want, they do not want the people to be able to choose the future, they want to control it and it can only be the future they want it to be.

What did the coup junta do that stopped the PPP from campaigning like the rest of the parties?

The coup junta changed the constitution to reduce the corruption in the elections. (edit: and to protect themselves ofcourse)

The current government wants to change the constitution in association with all groups and then to be voted on by the people.

Does your love for Thaksin or hate of the yellow shirts make you blind to his corruption? Does it make you blind to his thirst for power?

I am not pro-yellow. I am not pro-elite. I am anti-corruption, which makes me anti-Thaksin. Once Thaksin is out of the way, I will move on to being anti-other-corrupt-politicians.

As the title of the thread says "House dissolution won't end conflict". Getting rid of Thaksin will end the conflict.

Edited April 8, 2010 by anotherpeter

[LevelHead]

In fact, had the Yellow EE just kept their noses out and not put in place a coup and all the troubles since, its quite likely Thaksin and the TRT would have been blamed for the financial crisis problems and would have been voted out in an election by now already.

However, the stupid Yellow have, rather than letting people learn and mature, interfered and created an even bigger problem than there was already.

The EE needs to stop meddling and let the people mature in the knowledge of Democracy, what it means and how important their vote is. Its not about education, its about experience.

House Dissolution now !! Its the only real answer.

If there hadn't been a coup, then Thaksin would still be in power.

He would have had control of the army, so there wouldn't be any protests against him, or they would be quickly shut down.

There wouldn't be any critical comments of him in the newspapers, because he would sue them all.

There wouldn't have been a chance to vote him out, because either he wouldn't hold elections, or, as was shown in the 2006 elections, they wouldn't be free or fair.

Nonsense, that is called justifying what you did based on fantasy scare mongering. It never happened its only what the Yellow side used as an excuse for doing something worse, and that was holding a coup.

Do you not see that the coup itself was far worse than anything they accused Thaksin off. A coup is a coup, and its far worse.

You fail to appreciate that the Established Elite have become very worried about Politics and Politicians.

The "peasants" are no longer happy to accept some food to eat and little lao kao to drink. They want education for the kids, they want money, they want more for the next generation.

The "Established Elite" system does not allow that to happen, the peasants must remain that way for ever. They must have no say, they must have no control, only the EE can control.

The Politicians "awoke" the peasants by giving them healthcare, by improving roads and infrastructure and making their lives better.

The EE absolutely detest Thaksin for doing that, but its why the people loved him and many still do. Its why the EE have been so aggressive in trying their best to eliminate Thaksin from history and turn him into a criminal, to shatter his reputation, for they think they people will not "like a criminal" so they have done their very best under the coup system to wipe him out.

However, the people see the EE now as having done worse than the "criminal", having committed more crimes than the criminal they made, the double standards have now made the EE appear far worse.

And so the fight today is the EE in Yellow and in power by using the courts, and the people and politicians in Red on the streets demanding Democracy.

The only solution is to allow democracy to prevail and let the people vote, and the EE have to accept that, however the EE still retains enough power and influence to over ride Democracy, as it did in 2006 and in 2008. This is what must stop.

EE interference must stop.

Dissolve the House and hand the power back to the people and ACCEPT the results and the will of the people.

Its the only solution, but the Yellow EE in power will fight tooth and nail to stop it happening.

[ozzieman05]

1 point I not understand

50% say the RED Shirts are Bad

50% say the Yellow shirts are bad

Give or take

We can see the Redshirts in Action

The Democrats fighting them

But the army and the Yellow shirts(whom I keep hearing about) Nil

Now if the yellow shirts represent the elite

why are they not active now if they really exist

with many many Thai's already against the Red shirts is this not the time to finish them off once and fow all

Is it possible this Red Shirt v;s Yellow shirts is all propaganda

yes I know they existed years ago

As I have said many times

I am option to opinions

)

[anotherpeter]

Levelhead, are you showing the standards of Red democracy? You're allowed to make assumptions of what might have happened, but I'm not.

I don't actually see the coup as being worse that what Thaksin did. Thaksin was VERY corrupt. The only person that turned Thaksin into a criminal was himself. The coup was because of Thaksin's corruption. The coup was illegal. But at that point Thaksin wasn't the elected anything. He was an appointed care-taker PM trying to change the rules so that he could become PM without proper elections.

I don't believe that the "elite" are worried about politicians. I don't believe the "elite" are worried about the people from the N/NE.

Thaksin DID raise the awareness of politics by the people of the N/NE. He bought them with cash handouts. He continues to feed them with the red propaganda. The red leaders continue to stop the governemtn or non-red politicians from doing anything in their electorates.

In the 5 years that Thaksin was PM, did he increase the education in the poorer areas? Did he build schools? If so, where?

The farmers in the N/NE are poor because they are being ripped off by the middlemen buying their produce and because of the rich business men in their local areas. That is where most of Thaksin's money "to the poor" went. That's where the poor need to start their protests.

The only solution now is to let democracy prevail. Let the elected government govern. Have elections when they are due in 2011.

[SpoliaOpima]

Meanwhile, Chart Thai Pattana Party chief adviser Banharn Silapa-archa, another former prime minister, yesterday rejected the idea of shutting down the PTV station on the grounds it might be construed as a double standard because other satellite television stations of certain political leanings are still allowed to operate.

Yes but none of the other 'political leanings' are trying to overthrow the government undemocratically.

Banharn also said he was worried that the government might enforce the emergency decree in order to disperse the red shirts.

Why else call it?

[SpoliaOpima]

I don't actually see the coup as being worse that what Thaksin did.

Nor did most of the Thai people. The coup was widely popular when it occurred. It was the lesser of two evils.

Edited April 8, 2010 by SpoliaOpima

[monkfish]

The situation won't get better in 9 months or 2 years unless Abhisit addresses the problems.

In fact the longer he leaves it the worse it will get.

By demonizing the Reds in all Thai media he also is not helping the situation.

Basically you don't make friends by urinating on them.

He should forget about Industrializing Thailand until the core issues or sorted out and the most important in my view is Farming.

Did you know rice farmers get half the price per Kilo of rice now as when Thaksin was in office.

Building big factories for the Elite indeed he's in a dream World.

Edited April 8, 2010 by monkfish

[anotherpeter]

The situation won't get better in 9 months or 2 years unless Abhisit addresses the problems.

In fact the longer he leaves it the worse it will get.

By demonizing the Reds in all Thai media he also is not helping the situation.

Basically you don't make friends by urinating on them.

He should forget about Industrializing Thailand until the core issues or sorted out and the most important in my view is Farming.

Did you know rice farmers get half the price per Kilo of rice now as when Thaksin was in office.

Building big factories for the Elite indeed he's in a dream World.

Could the price of rice have something to do with the market? Or maybe something to do with the huge cuts the middlemen take?

[KireB]

In the 5 years that Thaksin was PM, did he increase the education in the poorer areas? Did he build schools? If so, where?

The farmers in the N/NE are poor because they are being ripped off by the middlemen buying their produce and because of the rich business men in their local areas. That is where most of Thaksin's money "to the poor" went. That's where the poor need to start their protests.

To add some fuel to this discussion. The average Thai house hold debts skyrocketed while Thaksin was in power.

And all these people with their necks in debt form the vulnerable pool of red shirt supporters!

[moresomekl]

I don't actually see the coup as being worse that what Thaksin did.

Nor did most of the Thai people. The coup was widely popular when it occurred. It was the lesser of two evils.

MOST ? You mean most in Bangkok right ?

[moresomekl]

In the 5 years that Thaksin was PM, did he increase the education in the poorer areas? Did he build schools? If so, where?

The farmers in the N/NE are poor because they are being ripped off by the middlemen buying their produce and because of the rich business men in their local areas. That is where most of Thaksin's money "to the poor" went. That's where the poor need to start their protests.

To add some fuel to this discussion. The average Thai house hold debts skyrocketed while Thaksin was in power.

And all these people with their necks in debt form the vulnerable pool of red shirt supporters!

And most in upcountry still like him . dam_n . Why cant they understand ?

[way2muchcoffee]

The Abhisit regime came in existence through abuse of power by the military.

Arguable, given the circumstances, but I won't try to make argument here.

The Abhisit regime came in existence through abuse of power by abuse of power by a court , both having no business banning a political party in any country that calls itself democratic .

This is your opinion, but your opinion is contrary to Thai law. The court is obligated to follow the constitution and the laws set forth for Thailand. They did not make the law regarding party dissolution. Their job is to adjudicate. That is what they did. There is no abuse by the courts for this.

We should remember that these provisions for house dissolution were included in the constitution precisely because too many parties were undermining democracy through electoral fraud and vote buying. It was intended to provide clear and harsh consequences to any party whose executives cheated during elections. Personally I agree. The only way to fight corruption is to provide stiff consequences under law and then apply the law as required. It is unfortunate that the PPP and others decided to engage in electoral fraud, even knowing the consequences if they were to be caught.

Edited April 8, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[moresomekl]

The Abhisit regime came in existence through abuse of power by the military.

Arguable, given the circumstances, but I won't try to make argument here.

The Abhisit regime came in existence through abuse of power by abuse of power by a court , both having no business banning a political party in any country that calls itself democratic .

This is your opinion, but your opinion is contrary to Thai law. The court is obligated to follow the constitution and the laws set forth for Thailand. They did not make the law regarding party dissolution. Their job is to adjudicate. That is what they did. There is no abuse by the courts for this.

We should remember that these provisions for house dissolution were included in the constitution precisely because too many parties were undermining democracy through electoral fraud and vote buying. It was intended to provide clear and harsh consequences to any party whose executives cheated during elections. Personally I agree. The only way to fight corruption is to provide stiff consequences under law and then apply the law as required. It is unfortunate that the PPP and others decided to engage in electoral fraud, even knowing the consequences if they were to be caught.

Yes that is my opinion and that forum is about opinions .

I dont know of any another democratic country with such undemocratic law .

Fighting one evil (corruption) with another evil (perceived electoral court abuse of

power ) is not going to solve the problem .

The remedy is as bad as the illness .

Edit : Of course i have nothing against impeaching individual MPs if they are found

guilty of corruption

Edited April 8, 2010 by moresomekl

[anotherpeter]

Yes that is my opinion and that forum is about opinions .

I dont know of any another democratic country with such undemocratic law .

Fighting one evil (corruption) with another evil (perceived electoral court abuse of

power ) is not going to solve the problem .

The remedy is as bad as the illness .

"PERCEIVED electoral court abuse" ... not actual court abuse.

Are you suggesting that NOT following the law is more democratic?

[way2muchcoffee]

The Abhisit regime came in existence through abuse of power by the military.

Arguable, given the circumstances, but I won't try to make argument here.

The Abhisit regime came in existence through abuse of power by abuse of power by a court , both having no business banning a political party in any country that calls itself democratic .

This is your opinion, but your opinion is contrary to Thai law. The court is obligated to follow the constitution and the laws set forth for Thailand. They did not make the law regarding party dissolution. Their job is to adjudicate. That is what they did. There is no abuse by the courts for this.

We should remember that these provisions for house dissolution were included in the constitution precisely because too many parties were undermining democracy through electoral fraud and vote buying. It was intended to provide clear and harsh consequences to any party whose executives cheated during elections. Personally I agree. The only way to fight corruption is to provide stiff consequences under law and then apply the law as required. It is unfortunate that the PPP and others decided to engage in electoral fraud, even knowing the consequences if they were to be caught.

Yes that is my opinion and that forum is about opinions .

I dont know of any another democratic country with such undemocratic law .

Fighting one evil (corruption) with another evil (perceived electoral court abuse of

power ) is not going to solve the problem .

The remedy is as bad as the illness .

Yes, but you are saying what should have been done. At the same time your recommendations of what should have been done are not consistent with Thai law. So it is impossible to come out with statements that say the judiciary abused anything when they were merely doing their duty under law. That was my point.

The current constitution was written by academics, professionals, politicians, businessmen, and a few military personnel. There were committees, drafts, etc. The process took about 8 months. The constitution was then put to the vote by a referendum. The people voted for the constitution. Like it or not, the constitution is the law of the land.

In hindsight we can see that there are obvious flaws. These flaws have partially led us to where we are today. During the recent televised debates the red leaders clearly identified the coup and the constitution as perverting the election. They therefore, due to a flawed electoral law, reject the previous election results. This is precisely why the Abhisit government wants to amend the constitution before the next set of elections.

Moreover, we must remember that immediately after the Democrats took power, the PTP demanded constitutional amendments. It should be noted that for six months the Democrats worked with other parties, including the PTP, to write specific amendments, some of which the Democrats opposed, but for the sake of reconciliation did not object to. Finally, when the amendments were about to be made, Thaksin called up the PTP and instructed them to pull out of the amendment process.

Edited April 8, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Jerrytheyoung]

Yes that is my opinion and that forum is about opinions .

I dont know of any another democratic country with such undemocratic law .

Fighting one evil (corruption) with another evil (perceived electoral court abuse of

power ) is not going to solve the problem .

The remedy is as bad as the illness .

"PERCEIVED electoral court abuse" ... not actual court abuse.

Are you suggesting that NOT following the law is more democratic?

To be respectable a Law must be the result of a democratic process

French resistance was not respecting the Vichy laws during WWII, (Vichy laws designed by the Nazis)

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[traderjm]

No, the majority of Thai people do want them in power.

Source? Last elections they got somewhere in the area of just under 40% that does not strike me as the majority... only a few percentage points above the DEMS as I recall.

So ummm <deleted> are you talking about, yet again

[moresomekl]

quote]

"PERCEIVED electoral court abuse" ... not actual court abuse.

Are you suggesting that NOT following the law is more democratic?

Perceived or actual , it depends on your shirt colour of course .

In this particular case yes i do .