What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

[G54]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

With no guarantee that it is 1 person 1 vote, a poll like this can never be statistically significant.

[ALFREDO]

-G54-

What you mean, not sure 1 person 1 vote?

I can only vote once, so it is 1 person, 1 vote!

[SantiSuk]

I hope and expect that Abhisit is more level-headed than the hawks on TV.com.

He would have been justified in taking action against those that invaded parliament (and probably would had his Emergency Orders been in place?), but broad action in the face of just rhetoric, rallying, parading around the streets and peeing residents off would play right into the Reds hands.

Patience for now (but not always) shows maturity and strength. Despotic anti-democratic regimes are the ones that put down popular rallies.

In addition to providing free buses the Government should offer to compensate closed businesses in the rally site areas.

Having assured my family I would go no where near a rally site, I found myself driving along Sukhumvit to go to the British Embassy on Tuesday as seemingly the sole non-red in a rally parade! It was all very good-humoured stuff and as far as I can make out there seems to have been very little violence around.

I find it disturbing that so many TVres seem to want to send in the troops to what has been little more than a huge party with rhetoric. Maybe you should all go live in China if that's the kind of state you want.

[moresomekl]

As much as I'd like this Red Shirt mess in BKK comes to an end, I'm afraid dispersing the protesters could end up same as in Bishkek Kyrgyzstan.

Just watch the pictures you see currently on western TV channels.

Therefore I chose to vote "To be patient".

secunded , same here

[Jingthing]

Storming parliament is a party to you? Threatening to attack the PM's house is a party to you? Vandalized buildings with diseased human blood is a party to you? Forcing massive closures of commerce and tourism for weeks is a party to you? A very twisted concept of party.

I support the critical statement of the red shirt illegal actions made by the USA diplomats. Protest, yes. Law breaking, no.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[Asa]

This Poll is a joke, TVF population mostly are yellow with pale faces.

I want Abhisit to dislodge the red with an offer to dissolve the Parliament and new election in 3 months. Force them out won't be for long before they would come back again with arms. And this time the result would be disastrous.

[bkkjames]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

With no guarantee that it is 1 person 1 vote, a poll like this can never be statistically significant.

Well unlike votes in the red country, the one's on here aren't for sale. At least nobody has offered me 10 baht to open another email account and join. I am thinking of conducting an online auction though.

Anyways, George and Co are pretty good at catching same IP addresses. (see band member list...Paul McCartney, Kurt Cobain, the Doors, David Bowie etc)

[moresomekl]

I dont see the mamas and elderly from Isaan firing RPGs or maning M60's . Those that would do that , given a chance ,are a small minority like Arisman and his crew of thugs and they should have been arrested long ago had the Abhisit regime beeen in any sort of control which obviously till now they are not . In this , they are as much to blame as Arisman&co .

Edit : on the rest i concurr , the governement has to be patieng

[/quo

Bloueeyed is the term that comes to mind. Middle Eastern terrorists have been using this method for considerable time now. Put the mamas and elderly out in front and hide the terrorists amoung them - if anything should happen it is easy to show wounded or dead mamas and blaim the government ..... it is dirty warefare that Mr. T is using

Totally different ....

[Jingthing]

On poll results. Generally, I think people who think there are many people voting many multiple screen names are paranoid. Sure it happens, but I doubt significant. Secondly, no poll of this kind is a scientific poll. That is a given. A scientific poll uses scientific methods to deliberately choose a representative sample of people to question. Voting here, on the other hand, is self selective. That said, with all those limitations, the results here still are a STRONG INDICATOR of foreigner sentiment about these matters. I stand by my rough estimate of the reality of that -- 2/3 of foreigners oppose the red shirts/Thaksinistas, 1/3 support them. That indeed is a vast majority by any definition. Roughly this same RATIO has been seen in results of many polls here over a long period of time. Point to a better indicator than that; I doubt you can!

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[kurtgruen]

What Do You Want Pm Abhisit To Do Now?

I think if he sits back long enough, he will keep getting more and more justification for a crackdown on the protesters. Tempers are starting to flare up. It's hot, in Bangkok, people are tired and frustrated and the Red leaders hand will also be forced, if they want to keep these protests going.

I think, that the SOE was a good idea, on the Government's part, because it gives them more power to deal with the situation and to bring the military into the picture more. After all, who can trust, what side the police is really on???

As for Abhisit. I think he needs to sit back, as long as possible and wait. the Red's, in the past, had a way of making themselves look bad. Give them enough time and it will happen more and more.

I wish, I could say, that their puppet master (Mr. T.), will run out of money, but I think his pockets are still quite deep.

The government needs to be ready to remove the protesters, when things get violent, that's for sure. In the meantime, sit back and watch the Reds making fools out of themselves, chanting their puppet master's name

So can someone please tell me, how many of the protest leaders are poor? Who is making all the money from the red hand clappers and shirts and other things sold?

Maybe it would be in the best interest, of a few people, to keep these protests going for a long time, after all, just think about all the wares you can sell to the protesters, after you get them all excited

[moresomekl]

^tough Khun T is not even a consideration! Like it or not he isnt coming back anytime soon - I think this is plainly obvious to all.

Hate to disagree but this is all for his benefit, he will be back. As soon as his Party are in Government the first thing that will happen is he will get his money back, and return a hero.

If however, that does not work, then plan B is already in place,.

He is NOT coming back without facing 2 years in jail . And if he is (which wont happen) and the thai people still

want him then there is nothing you or me can do bout it .

That is called democracy

[animatic]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

With no guarantee that it is 1 person 1 vote, a poll like this can never be statistically significant.

Trying to say that TVF has too many multi-nick members and that they are so biased and so prevalent,

that this can possibly be more significant than the 60% / 22.5% act/don't act main split + 17% wait and see.

Sorry hard to believe there is 37% of shills here to skew this that far off.

Edited April 8, 2010 by animatic

[Jingthing]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

With no guarantee that it is 1 person 1 vote, a poll like this can never be statistically significant.

Trying to say that TVF has too many multi-nick members and that they are so biased and so prevalent,

that this can possibly be more significant than the 60% / 25% act/don't act main split + 20% wait and see.

Sorry hard to believe there is 35% of shills here to skew this that far off.

Also, for any scamming members like that, they are just as likely to be pro red as anti red so that kind of thing should naturally be a wash.

[TonyH]

The government MUST out an end to this public lawlessness...Thailand is inexorably sliding down the slippery slope to the abyss of anarchy. Already there is a sense of lawlessness throughout this country. Drive-by shootings are common here, such is the brazen lack of regard for human life. People feel free to operate motor vehicles as they wish--often driving dangerously and without respect for their fellow man. Nobody seems to believe the law is something to be obeyed...they make their own statutes to serve their selfish interests and get away with it constantly.

How to end this mess? As a former military operator and tactician, one plausible idea at this point is to take 'extreme measures' to eliminate key protagonists who are inciting regular people--who lack intellectual capacity-- to carry out acts of civil disobedience and suggesting sedition by setting fire to provincial courthouses. If 'extreme measures' means surgically taking out ringleaders with long range rifle fire, then that is one solution available. It is also very public. You must then provide a means for the main body to leave Bangkok without fear of being shot at or incarcerated. Canalize them using water cannons, acoustic devices and accompanying loudspeaker instructions along an egress route with buses and other forms of mass transport at assembly areas, preventing the flow of thugs into side streets to cause additional mayhem. Then move the group en masse to temporary cantonement areas outside of the city where they can be fed and sheltered until arrangements are made to send them up-country. This can be done with precision and compassion and not further fan the flames. Once the head of the snake is severed, the body is controllable and the mass hysteria will ebb. There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. The real issue is motivating and commanding them to do their duty and to do it successfully (minimal bloodshed but GET IT DONE).

Endeth the sermon.

Spot on Fore Man, I just wish Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva reads this and takes action like this ASAP.

Edited April 8, 2010 by TonyH

[dhrobertson]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

One man, One vote.

Trouble is I suspect that a lot of these 'political debators' , have multi accounts, multi pseudonyms, and will probably have been reincarnated 6 or 7 times before Sunday

The vote will still show at least 3;1 against the reds, unlike what the red supporters say/believe.

Personally I voted B.

LOL

Rich Elite Yellow shirts who can use the Internet on the latest Mac PC with a 10MB broadband connection in their AC "study room" can each vote once.

Red shirts out on the streets or working in the factory or on the farm with no internet connection and no PC can vote, but of course, will not be able to.

LOL

Actually, this is a key point. IMHO, democracy can't work properly without universal access to education and information. It would be a great idea for the government to guarantee free broadband access to every home in the country. Yes I know you can take a horse to water etc but it could really help lift up the underpriveledged. You could buy a hel_l of a lot of 3G wireless modems with Thaksin's cash!

[landofthefree]

...wait until the protesters get violent and start vandalizing, then he will have a premise for action.

Abhisit should disolve the house, resign then go to the Thai people and beg for forgiveness from them.

[MikeyIdea]

This sounds like a rational approach but have we all not witnessed the Reds becoming bolder and bolder in their illegal acts and threats the longer the have been ignored?

I'm not saying you are wrong and it appears the number or Reds on the street are dwindling but they have also stepped up their rhetoric about what will take place tomorrow.

At what point does the government decide that the law needs to be upheld? Should forces move in now while their numbers are down or wait for more to join when they see, even under emergency orders, their are no consequences and their acts become even boulder?

I don't have the answers but I do know this is not the time for the government to appear weak. A show a force or sending troops in is not the only way to show strength but they cannot continue to send the message that these kind of actions are okay be it by any group, party or color.

Lots of corrupt leaders in the past but this adminstration made it clear that this will not go on unpunished and why, they say, they went after Thaksin. If true, then they need to send the same message that mob rule and coups are not going to be the standard operating procedure in Thailand anymore either.

What a well reasoned and thoughtful post, about what I have been thinking but my thoughts werent this coherent

Good posts from both Thailanderpaul and Brian.

Show of force will only escalate violence for sure. I wish I knew how the current government should do to show themselves strong without doing anything that could provoke. Difficult. I bet the PM's advisors are crunching it now.

My daughter wanted to play at KiddyLand so I took her to Central World both on Saturday and Sunday approx 3 to 4 PM. There were only a few thousand reds around and it was not dangerous at all. Today I clearly feel that the mood has changed, intimidation is in the air more strongly and it is escalating quickly with any show of force or defiance. The only action that I can think of that would not escalate it is ignore. Let the red skirts break the law, let them do what is Not normal to do in Thailand any longer since 20 years back. I don't think the situation will go totally out of control. Why can there not be 2 possible solutions to the problem? Let the government control, or... let Taksin control...

Remember that the organisers and investors of this movement does not want it to go totally out of control. They just want to intimidate, that is all they want.

As I and many many others are working as normal even at Central World now, how about just - Oh, sod it. Do what you want to do and I don't care. The only possible way for the organisers to keep up pressure is to increase intimidation and violence and sooner or later, that should come back to bite them. If that is the stamp they put on themselves, then the dislike will slowly grow as will the reds self awareness.

The rainy season starts in a months time, would just letting them get wet cool them down?

[moresomekl]

As if we don't see dozens of Thais in internet cafes daily

in ever town and village around the whole country...

Yes but they mostly play video games

[anotherpeter]

This Poll is a joke, TVF population mostly are yellow with pale faces.

I want Abhisit to dislodge the red with an offer to dissolve the Parliament and new election in 3 months. Force them out won't be for long before they would come back again with arms. And this time the result would be disastrous.

A poll. Democracy at work. Not well understood by the reds.

[neverdie]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

With no guarantee that it is 1 person 1 vote, a poll like this can never be statistically significant.

Trying to say that TVF has too many multi-nick members and that they are so biased and so prevalent,

that this can possibly be more significant than the 60% / 22.5% act/don't act main split + 17% wait and see.

Sorry hard to believe there is 37% of shills here to skew this that far off.

animatic,

what did ur other profiles vote for.

i made sure my other ones all matched, including my george

[whatamidoinghere]

In 1989, tens of thousands of demonstrators camped out on Tiananmen Square in Beijing between mid-April and June 4. The government decided to end the demonstration. We all know how that looked like.

We don't want that to happen in Bangkok so the only thing one can do is be patient or negotiate with the demonstrators.

[Rtwo]

Any European country would not allow protesters to hold the country's capital hostage and would have used water jets and CS gas already to disperse the crowd and put an end to this so called piece-full demonstration which is really nothing but a disguised coup attempt by one person using the IQ challenged (of which there are apparently a lot) to obtain his goal of becoming "president for life". He had already turned the country into his own cash machine but apparently the billions of $ were not enough.

It's time the government moves against the protesters with full force. It is obvious that half measures will not work. This is ( I think) the first revolution attempt in history on behalf of a capitalist convicted criminal. Anyone with an IQ above 60, when looking at the facts must realize that the coup was required to stop Mr. T in his tracks of robbing the country further and of placing his own supporters into all key positions of government and army to make sure he will stay in power. Even old Ferdinand Marcos only got away with this for some time....

Sorry I thought political statments were "off limits"? Moderators where are you?

[ChiangMaiThai]

The government MUST out an end to this public lawlessness...Thailand is inexorably sliding down the slippery slope to the abyss of anarchy. Already there is a sense of lawlessness throughout this country. Drive-by shootings are common here, such is the brazen lack of regard for human life. People feel free to operate motor vehicles as they wish--often driving dangerously and without respect for their fellow man. Nobody seems to believe the law is something to be obeyed...they make their own statutes to serve their selfish interests and get away with it constantly.

How to end this mess? As a former military operator and tactician, one plausible idea at this point is to take 'extreme measures' to eliminate key protagonists who are inciting regular people--who lack intellectual capacity-- to carry out acts of civil disobedience and suggesting sedition by setting fire to provincial courthouses. If 'extreme measures' means surgically taking out ringleaders with long range rifle fire, then that is one solution available. It is also very public. You must then provide a means for the main body to leave Bangkok without fear of being shot at or incarcerated. Canalize them using water cannons, acoustic devices and accompanying loudspeaker instructions along an egress route with buses and other forms of mass transport at assembly areas, preventing the flow of thugs into side streets to cause additional mayhem. Then move the group en masse to temporary cantonement areas outside of the city where they can be fed and sheltered until arrangements are made to send them up-country. This can be done with precision and compassion and not further fan the flames. Once the head of the snake is severed, the body is controllable and the mass hysteria will ebb. There are sizeable armed forces here that are equipped and trained to perform these tasks easily. The real issue is motivating and commanding them to do their duty and to do it successfully (minimal bloodshed but GET IT DONE).

Endeth the sermon.

Plausible, but this assumes that there is the will amongst the army and police. This is the great unknown in this whole mess.

By the way, I am still watching the Red TV. The feed is still working and live. Just need to download the UDD Player....

[Roadman]

I cannot see how disolving parliament and having fresh elections is any answer. The whole election process in Thailand is a bloody circus and in it's current format will only result in more of the same for ever and a day.

Send in the army and police? Even the army is getting cold feet of enforcing physical presense on other Thai's. In the last coup there were gaurentees given by the Army to His Royal Highness that no Thai would get hurt. While the odd Red hard line nuthead 'may' go over board and throw a grenade everybody in this thing including the Army is doing their utmost to ensure that no one is physically hurt. Hells bells - parliament getting stormed? The protective line folding and running away when a few Reds climb the gates is a storming? There seems to have settled into Thailand an empasse of 'Thai not hurt Thai' that even the Army is comfortable with.

Which leaves the option for Pinnochio to be patient which is as best as it is now going to get. Bangkok bussiness's may be hurting short term but is that much of a cost to the long term hurt of the poorer Thai's or correctly mostly Isaanite's?

The best option would be for the Army with the full support of His Royal Highness to take over power under another coup, round up all the contenders, pretenders, judicary, scholers, etc. and lock them in a camp to stay for ever and a day until they come up with a Constituion that they and the country can move forwrad with. Lesson number one that the Army could enforce on them all to begin their encampment with is Democracy 101. Only problem would be a credible scource for lecturers from the so called western democracies

Seriously Thailand politics is a bloody circus merry go round, with a laugh a minute - as long as you're not Thai.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Roadman

[Jerrytheyoung]

Maybe my proposal needs some more explanations.

Next week, the Club of the Political Elephants (Anand, Banharm, Chavalit, Chuan Leekpai) is going to meet. No doubt they are very responsible, experienced and reasonable men and they will arrive to some kind of common proposal, which will get immediately a strong support from most of parties in the Thai Society as the ultimate hope for getting out this messy situation.

We can noticed they are taking their time (meeting after Songkran), in order to reduce the pressure of the situation. I am sure that today, all the four are already preparing this meeting.

Until this date, they let the youngsters playing the drama. The youngsters are under survey. Most of us wishes that nothing dramatic will happen during this waiting.

What is going to be the proposal of the “Elephants”? Probably, a caretaker Government of Unity (already several times proposed by Chavalit in the past) in charge to organise General Elections after implementing amendments to the Current Charter and immediate social measures, so, for a short period the Parliament has to work and cannot be immediately dissolved . A timetable will be included in the proposal.

Due to the reputation and social weight of the “elephants’, it is also obvious than the proposal is equivalent to a decision and nobody will be in a position to ignore it. Particularly, if Abhisit will have to position himself.

So during few days, we are in a transition period, waiting “The Proposal”.

It is obvious that Abhisit cannot be the caretaker PM implementing the proposal of the “Wise Men”, due to the “neutrality and credibility” which will be required for cooling down the situation. Being the leader of the Democrat, he is not the man of the situation, (this being said independently of his personal abilities and his smart behaviour).

The coming days are risky, some elements are uncontrollable and this can constitute a dramatic stain in a political career. It is the reason why, in my IMHO, Abhisit should anticipate the proposal and step down ahead: he will minimise the risks and he will be free for concentrating his action on a coming back through next Elections . Abhisit stepping down, the Red Shirts will have no reason to continue their rallyes. Like all Thai parties, they will have to cooperate with the new Caretaker PM for organising the Elections within the defined Roadmap.

About Khun T... nothing on the agenda..., Justice has to go on, but “same treatment for Yellow and Red shirts”.

[blaze]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

With no guarantee that it is 1 person 1 vote, a poll like this can never be statistically significant.

Trying to say that TVF has too many multi-nick members and that they are so biased and so prevalent,

that this can possibly be more significant than the 60% / 25% act/don't act main split + 20% wait and see.

Sorry hard to believe there is 35% of shills here to skew this that far off.

Also, for any scamming members like that, they are just as likely to be pro red as anti red so that kind of thing should naturally be a wash.

The pro-reds on this board may expect to be in the minority on this forum- due to its relationship with the Nation which most accuse of being conservative- if not yellow. So I doubt that most pro reds are going to go out of their way to make the forum look other than what they claim it to be- a yellow bandwagon.

Edited April 8, 2010 by blaze

[animatic]

As if we don't see dozens of Thais in internet cafes daily

in ever town and village around the whole country...

Yes but they mostly play video games

Young kids sure.

But ever check what the young ladies are doing?

Thought not.

Social networking BIG TIME.

and talking to boyfriends over seas,

and talking to family back home too.

Internet cafes are hubs of the local cultures for the under 30 crowds

And they go home and talk to mom/grand mom, older brothers etc.

[Rinrada]

Do a Gordon.....

[MikeyIdea]

...wait until the protesters get violent and start vandalizing, then he will have a premise for action.

Abhisit should disolve the house, resign then go to the Thai people and beg for forgiveness from them.

That remind me of what a Thai friend working as journalist told me some time after Taksin had been oustered by the coup. Already before the election and while the military still had power he said - Censor is less important now than during Taksin, it is easier to get what you write through. My journalist friend was not a political writer himself, he was reporting what his journalist friends writing on "sensitive subjects" told him

Without freedom of speech, democracy is nothing. I wouldn't want to go back to what was in terms of freedom of speech under Taksis

Edit: Read it through and it didn't sound good so I changed wording from ... "friends of his" to "his journalist fields"

Edited April 8, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[animatic]

Well there were some whining that Jingthing's reference to a POLL was wrong and biased.

Here's their chance to VOTE ONCE, and we can see what TVF people think of the situation.

So far lets just say, it appears 'Statistically significant'.

With no guarantee that it is 1 person 1 vote, a poll like this can never be statistically significant.

Trying to say that TVF has too many multi-nick members and that they are so biased and so prevalent,

that this can possibly be more significant than the 60% / 22.5% act/don't act main split + 17% wait and see.

Sorry hard to believe there is 37% of shills here to skew this that far off.

animatic,

what did ur other profiles vote for.

i made sure my other ones all matched, including my george

When do I have time to write in another personality?

I remember Ferwert trying to say I was a TVF operative

and in collaboration with Jingthing working for George and Suthep...???

Sorry ND, I have one Nick and need no other.