Does 'thai Culture' Have An Impact Upon The Quality Of Education In Thailand?

[bjoe97]

I have met a few thai teachers,from the small private school that my stepson attends,and to be honest,they scare me to death.Only met 3 farang teachers and they scared me more.

You should be scared of farang teachers. At one school I worked in the head English teacher interviewed a guy for a job, he told the head teacher during the interview that he just got back from Laos and had 30 women in 30 days. The Thai administration hired him. Just the sort you want around your kids.

one of the minister's of education was once accused a rape and many mia anoi's.Like most in power here.

I'd prefer the farang- at least he was honest.

[Xangsamhua]

Yes. And I doubt they'd accept advice from a farang who's fluent in advanced Thai.

I suspect you're right, PB, if the advice is given directly, as in "If I were you ...", or "We need to ... ", etc. And even young Thais who come back from the West with a PhD have to slot back into the pecking order based on seniority and age. Their turn comes later, when the fire has ebbed and a certain cynicism has come on.

However, there are cases where a foreigner has credibility and status, is in a position to advise and has an impact. He or she has to adopt a subtle form of leadership, though, where the decisions are clearly taken by Thai executives and can be openly ascribed to them and their subordinate managers.

An interesting case is Dr Samuel McFarland, who is discussed in David Wyatt's short book of essays, Studies in Thai History. McFarland was an American missionary who spent 40 years in Siam and was a senior advisor in education to Rama V. McFarland initiated the first Thai-English bilingual school at Suan Anand in 1879, which was eventually suppressed and absorbed into Prince Damrong's new Suan Kularb school in Bangkok (the court was worried at the dominance of Chinese merchants' sons at Suan Anand).

McFarland's modus operandum was based on the principle that he could only be a resource person to his Siamese employers; it was up to them to consider his views and the evidence backing them and then to make their own decisions. I've adopted that approach in my own work in Thailand. It seems to be all I can do. Thai people will consider and adopt (and adapt) ideas and models from the West, but it has to look as though it's their own initiative.

Of course, with good administrators, it often is. I'm sometimes taken aback by the creatively adapted ideas my own director comes up with, and the speed with which they are implemented (not always effectively).

I'm also not sure how long a toothless adviser can maintain a peripherally valuable, but largely impotent role before becoming a mere spineless shade. When that starts to become apparent it may be time to go home or retire. McFarland stayed too long and, as they say, went home a broken man, dying a year later.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Xangsamhua

[phetaroi]

Yes. And I doubt they'd accept advice from a farang who's fluent in advanced Thai.

Fair enough and an honest answer. Appreciated.

[PeaceBlondie]

I wish my cynicism were wrong, but that's a subjunctive unlikelihood.

[brownknees]

Heres an example for you.My stepdaughter came with my wife and I to another country where I started to work.She had attended a catholic school and learned some English there as well as speaking english with me each day.She was 15 and 1/2 when we moved and it took five weeks to get her into a british curriculum school.She was a little lost at first but quickly progresed and was enjoying it .Then came summer break and mum and her went back to Thailand for the summer holidays.On Returning she went back to school but was not the same child.Homework slipped and her studies just slid,then my job finished and I had to move to a city about 150 K away.At the end of term at the british school her final report went missing!She also sat an entrance exam for a new school(also English curriculum)in which she failed miserablyand as a result none of the schools would take on the test results and her previous report which her previous school provided!!Now she is back in Thailand having missed almost a whole term.My conclusions were that she just found the hard work too much and she had destroyed her final report so I could not show it to another school.In conclusion I now see that she would just like to sit back in Thai school and nod her head when teacher says "do you understand".Mum is now leaving to put her in school,a hard one I hope but thats not Thai style!!

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm going to step in here now and remind the membership that one of the subforum guidelines is that it is considered inflammatory in the teaching subforum to make generally negative statements about groups of foreign teachers in Thailand. A number of off-topic posts will be modified.

[Ijustwannateach]

Back on topic a moment:

I don't think the presence of foreign teachers in Thai schools was ever self-consciously meant to 'change' the schools. Mostly we were/are still viewed as an 'English language resource.' From the point of view of most Thai teachers and administrators whom I have known, this is the case even in EP programs where many foreigners teach subjects other than English- and fair enough. There is a reasonable argument that some economic need exists for Thais who can function academically and professionally in English applied to all kinds of tasks.

From the point of view of parents and students, however, I think that many of us make a stark contrast with their experience of Thai teaching and classroom experiences. I would hope in more cases than not, this experience gives them further options for learning and thinking. Certainly the most ambitious-seeming students seem to recognise the need for more than what a typical Thai school provides them- and will seek it out, aggressively. Fortunately, many of them are able to find these resources- but sadly, many of them do not.

Administratively, there is usually a bit of schizophrenia in Thai schools with regard to foreign teachers. On one hand, the presence of foreigners indicates that *something* should be different. On the other hand, the unwillingness to examine and criticise the established order of the school makes it difficult to quantify exactly what that difference should be. This causes tensions at many levels, from the execution of school duties, to academic differences, to issues of academic integrity, to classroom management, to grading, to exams, to teaching styles. If any specific issue becomes raised as a point, almost inevitably it will be held out to foreign teachers as something 'the Thai teachers do this way so you should, too.' On the other hand, smarter administrators will turn a benevolent blind eye to desirable or harmless behaviours and simply pretend ignorance rather than try to transform the foreign employees into Thai teachers (the worst Thai administrators of foreign teachers are the ones who try to micromanage such a transformation).

How is a foreign teacher- in such an environment- to set priorities considering all the competing demands? My call is that the STUDENTS remain the most important people in the school, and it is their needs and interests which I am there primarily to serve. When there is any room to maneuver, their concerns will be the ones which guide my choices as an educator. If they wish to remain passive constructions of their culture, they are free to do so. But I find it interesting how often groups of students are eager to become intellectually active learners when they are given the opportunity, despite the precedent of a cultural educational background which would tend to stifle them (and this is true in general, not simply in Thailand).

[Kitsch22]

Yes. And I doubt they'd accept advice from a farang who's fluent in advanced Thai.

Absolutely correct. Having paused for a moment to try (without much success) to divine the meaning of the expression "fluent in advanced Thai" I find myself posing the following hypothetical question.

If an administrator in a senior position within the Thai Ministry of Education were to find sufficient motivation and time to read initially this present thread (and its seminal predecessor) in extenso and then all postings in this forum within, say, the last 3 months, would he at the end of that process be more likely to be saying to himself:

(A) "Yes, we must indeed listen to these farangs so that we may turn our Thai students into little westerners" or alternatively

( "What arrogance! We had better kick them all out and send these buggers home where they belong."

Then answer the same question from the locus of a politician standing as a candidate in the (now forthcoming) general election.

Like the rest of the expat community, the farang teachers in Thailand need to be constantly aware just how thin and fragile are the eggshells upon which they walk.

[Ijustwannateach]

In the case of the Minister- though I doubt such individuals spend time reading online forums- I would guess s/he would have heard a lot of it before, and it wouldn't reduce such a person to such a silly binary quandary as you delineate. Probably s/he would see things from several of the sides mentioned, if s/he cared. It's hard to guess what Ministers of Education might think because they stay such short periods of time. I would also presume that such an individual would know that most of the other posters on the forum (for example, in the news threads) are not teachers and therefore that the matter would be off-topic to education- which is where this thread will not be going.

I would also like to say a quick word regarding the guidelines once more: it is considered inflammatory and against subforum posting guidelines to characterise the posters on the forum as a group negatively. Just a word to the wise- might be worth taking a look at the pinned thread on the matter.

[Kitsch22]

In the case of the Minister- though I doubt such individuals spend time reading online forums- I would guess s/he would have heard a lot of it before, and it wouldn't reduce such a person to such a silly binary quandary as you delineate. Probably s/he would see things from several of the sides mentioned, if s/he cared. It's hard to guess what Ministers of Education might think because they stay such short periods of time. I would also presume that such an individual would know that most of the other posters on the forum (for example, in the news threads) are not teachers and therefore that the matter would be off-topic to education- which is where this thread will not be going.

I would also like to say a quick word regarding the guidelines once more: it is considered inflammatory and against subforum posting guidelines to characterise the posters on the forum as a group negatively. Just a word to the wise- might be worth taking a look at the pinned thread on the matter.

It is of course entirely obvious that posters on TV are in very respect an admirable bunch. Impeccable! However:

You avoid answering what was a seriously intended and remains a relevant question. In the case of the 2 hypothetical Thai readers of the relevant TV posts, how do you estimate their likely ordering of the 2 conclusions that I have suggested?

This is not about how we perceive ourselves. This is about their perception of us in the context of what we say.

I make no attempt to hide my own position on the matter. The Thais have had the good sense to ensure that we cannot acquire ownership of their land and would be absolutely crazy to allow us to have any significant policy influence as regards the education/indoctrination of their children.

The Thais (and especially the Thais above the bottom layers in the social pyramid) do not much like us, nor the way we think and when one reads what we say about them, their attitudes in that respect are entirely understandable.

[phetaroi]

Back on topic a moment:

I don't think the presence of foreign teachers in Thai schools was ever self-consciously meant to 'change' the schools. Mostly we were/are still viewed as an 'English language resource.' From the point of view of most Thai teachers and administrators whom I have known, this is the case even in EP programs where many foreigners teach subjects other than English- and fair enough. There is a reasonable argument that some economic need exists for Thais who can function academically and professionally in English applied to all kinds of tasks.

From the point of view of parents and students, however, I think that many of us make a stark contrast with their experience of Thai teaching and classroom experiences. I would hope in more cases than not, this experience gives them further options for learning and thinking. Certainly the most ambitious-seeming students seem to recognise the need for more than what a typical Thai school provides them- and will seek it out, aggressively. Fortunately, many of them are able to find these resources- but sadly, many of them do not.

Administratively, there is usually a bit of schizophrenia in Thai schools with regard to foreign teachers. On one hand, the presence of foreigners indicates that *something* should be different. On the other hand, the unwillingness to examine and criticise the established order of the school makes it difficult to quantify exactly what that difference should be. This causes tensions at many levels, from the execution of school duties, to academic differences, to issues of academic integrity, to classroom management, to grading, to exams, to teaching styles. If any specific issue becomes raised as a point, almost inevitably it will be held out to foreign teachers as something 'the Thai teachers do this way so you should, too.' On the other hand, smarter administrators will turn a benevolent blind eye to desirable or harmless behaviours and simply pretend ignorance rather than try to transform the foreign employees into Thai teachers (the worst Thai administrators of foreign teachers are the ones who try to micromanage such a transformation).

How is a foreign teacher- in such an environment- to set priorities considering all the competing demands? My call is that the STUDENTS remain the most important people in the school, and it is their needs and interests which I am there primarily to serve. When there is any room to maneuver, their concerns will be the ones which guide my choices as an educator. If they wish to remain passive constructions of their culture, they are free to do so. But I find it interesting how often groups of students are eager to become intellectually active learners when they are given the opportunity, despite the precedent of a cultural educational background which would tend to stifle them (and this is true in general, not simply in Thailand).

Certainly one of the best posts I've read.

The "Thainess" issue we have already discussed in detail. It's quite evident in many aspects of living in Thailand.

And I think there's a tendency to think everything is different in Thailand. But I am guessing that human nature isn't as different as we may think. I think back to what Anwar Sadat said about the difference between Middle Eastern Muslims and Western Christians (and admittedly this is highly paraphrased) -- there are actually more similarities than differences, it's just that we focus on the differences.

I think back to my own experiences -- yes, in America -- but before you dismiss them think about the following scenarios:

A group of principals from prestigious school system gather to hear a speaker from West Virginia. Before the presentation there are lots of jokes among the principals about West Virginia. After the presentation the comments are more along the lines of "Better than I expected, but we have the credentials and the reputation. We don't really need this outsider coming in and telling us how to run our schools."

The new Assistant Superintendent arrives at my school and in more subtle language basically says, "I'm from the central office, and I'm here to help you." Out of courtesy and fear I don't roll my eyes or vomit.

After I observe a classroom where things didn't go very well, I sit down with the teacher for the post-conference. "Jane, I'm going to make some suggestions about things that may improve things in your classroom." This time, she's the one who valiantly tries not to roll her eyes or vomit.

In each of these scenarios, which I have seen countless times, the psychology is two-fold:

1. A group in power is either threatening the status quo, or their status quo is being threatened.

2. It's an outsider causing the problem.

Think it's so different? Read on:

A group of Thai administrators from a school gather to hear an administrator from England. Before the presentation there are lots of jokes among the administrators about farangs. After the presentation the comments are more along the lines of "Better than I expected, but we really don't need this outsider coming in and telling us how to run our schools."

The inspector arrives at my school and in more subtle language basically says, "I'm from the Education Ministry, and I'm here to help you." Out of courtesy and fear I don't roll my eyes or vomit.

I'm an American teaching here, and after I visit a Thai classroom where things didn't go very well, I sit down with the Thai teacher and say, "Tasanee, I'm going to tell you how we teach this subject in America so you can improve things in your classroom." This time, she's the one who valiantly tries not to roll her eyes or vomit.

It's all about status quo, power, and outsiders. Every one of these three concepts relate directly to Thai "face saving".

Edited April 19, 2010 by phetaroi

[thunder30101]

Change is what moves any culture forward, without it where would the world be today ? Change can also come too fast bringing with it serious problems, but to stick your head in the sand and do nothing to improve your society in todays interconnected world is a recipe for disaster. Just look at the other members of asean and what they are accomplishing. I dont think any teacher I know here is trying to change thailand into a western country, they are only trying to teach their students how to speak english a language used worldwide. The child-like mentality of thais of all ages is a major factor in not wanting change, one only has to look around at the reading materials availible to see this, children have a great fear of the unknown and we are a BIG unknown to them. I really like most thais and many things about eastern cultures, but I am greatly concerned for the future here. As I pointed out in another post 2015 will bring about the migration of workers without restrictions by members of the asean community (no work permits required) what do you think will happen to the tourism industry when the phillipinos take it over because they speak english ? Thailand can drag their feet on this issue but that just means the multi-nationals who are the ones that invest money will just take their jobs elsewhere. There are alot of thai teachers I have met here that know the problems and see the solutions, but until the old guard is gone they dont have a chance of making change.

[phetaroi]

Change is what moves any culture forward, without it where would the world be today?...

Just look at the other members of asean and what they are accomplishing.

...

The child-like mentality of thais of all ages is a major factor in not wanting change...

2015 will bring about the migration of workers without restrictions by members of the asean community (no work permits required)...

There are alot of thai teachers I have met here that know the problems and see the solutions, but until the old guard is gone they dont have a chance of making change.

A good post. The question is not where there will be change, but rather what the pace and face of that change will be. And a lot of that is not determined by the educational community, but rather by the forces swirling around it.

Well, I'm not sure you can point to Asean overall as an example of very much. I wouldn't put Burma and Laos and Cambodia, and perhaps not Vietnam in the same socioeconomic position as Singapore and Malaysia, and probably Indonesia. If anything, I might position Thailand somewhere in the middle.

I think calling Thais "child like" in their mentality might just be a tad harsh!

I have doubts that in 2015 the borders are simply going to open up as described.

The problem about the old guard is that the new guard usually is absorbed by the old guard making a medium guard. It's rarely a transition as much as it is a slow evolution...unless there is some violent upheaval in society. Oops.

[Ijustwannateach]

Kitsch22, I'm afraid that I don't see the relevance of your 2-way poll because I give both myself and most Thai ministers more credit than that. I would refuse to take either choice, as I imagine would most of the people sufficiently educated and complex to become Thai Ministers (some of them are quite formidable, whether I like them or not). I don't see the people commenting on this forum either on politics or education as representative of all foreigners, nor do I see the goal of foreign teachers in Bangkok as to 'turn Thais into Westerners,' nor do I see the behaviour on this forum as justifying restrictions on foreigners which you cite, nor do I see the relevance of any of your last message to a discussion of foreign education vis a vis Thai culture. As a result, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to take that part of the discussion somewhere else where it might be more relevant (a poll in General might be amusing) and stick with more directly related educational matters on this thread.

I am also a bit concerned by the attitude towards Thais displayed by some posters on this thread- references to their 'nature' in connection with prostitution, or the label 'child-like' are really a bit too colonial, and few contemporary educational theories- say, in the last 30 years- are so essentialist as to assume that people are so inherently limited by 'nature'- in fact, such claims have largely been dismissed now as cryptoracist. In keeping with what I have previously said on the thread, I think that if Thais lack, devalue, or eschew Western-style attitudes, it is because they have been rewarded through a process of education and acculturation for other behaviours. I highly doubt that if any poster on this thread had been raised in similar circumstances, that he/she would somehow through his 'natural' genetic properties have escaped exactly the same tendencies.

So let's STAY on education, please. The rhetoric about Thai attitudes towards foreigners at large has no place here, and the neocolonial racist typecasting has no place whatsoever.

Phetaroi, thanks for the kind words. I can feel myself cringing in sympathy in exactly the kinds of situations you describe- it's almost never a comfortable situation when someone evaluates one's teaching- however, I have found that if you have a VERY GOOD observer who is also a good communicator, getting advice and reflections from them (very much NOT in the mode of 'this is what you should do,' but rephrased in the manner of a critical friend as 'this is what I saw') can be one of the most enriching and valuable professional experiences for a teacher. In my experience previous to Thailand I was lucky enough to see the good side of such practice and I miss it here (but I understand why it can't work).

On the other hand, I think serving as and setting a good example that people WANT to emulate- even perhaps Thai people- is always a win-win situation. They learn from you without you needing to rub it in their faces, or even claim credit, and they know you have something to offer and are more likely to want you back. Demonstrations are better than advice (show, don't tell).

[thunder30101]

Sorry to disappoint anyone here but I am not using childlike mentality in a racist or demeaning way, I think it is a fair comparison to this society and again Im not saying it in a bad way. We cannot even discuss where I believe this comes from so lets leave it at that. The borders will either open up or thailand will be in violation of its agreements with its asean partners, not saying they cant drag their feet on it, but guess what no one will invest in a country that doesnt live up to its international agreements. By the way this was in the BKK post biz section awhile back written by a thai who wrote a very good article on why the education system here needs to wake up. I worry what will happen is they will wait until it is too late and the change will come too fast without any positive results for the thai people, kinda like the current political situation.

[Ijustwannateach]

The problem of bribing and 'tea money' for entrance to programmes, for better grades, and for favourable treatment is also endemic. It's terribly unfair- and it's also the only way many Thai teachers have to retire. Unless government can provide better salaries for teachers (and, in an off-topic note, for police) it's no wonder this corrruption exists.

Of course, the slippery slope is what comes next- once you're able to rationalise accepting money for educational shortcut A, how does one draw the line? and what kinds of resentment will crop up between the groups who achieve by genuine hard work, and those who just pay their way through?

Is this 'Thai culture?' Well, in occasionally candid conversations about this with Thai students, they seem to accept that it is a part of life. Does it have an impact on education? Of course!

[Loz]

The journey of a thousand miles....

[Anyse]

I have read this entire thread and, unfortunately, there is not enough information for one to ascertain, much less describe, "Thai nature" or "Thai culture." Culture is comprised of many units of behavior within the culture that will describe what is being called "Thai culture." However, I hope that, when I get there to teach, I will understand what is referred to as "Thai nature," or the "Thai culture." However, at the level of discussion here, "Thai nature" can only be seen as some sort of passivity that lies somewhere at the root of the Thai expression of a pervasive sense of humility in the presence of and an overt respect for anyone in some position of authority. Now, where does one go from here? As a farang when being there, I know that I will be keenly aware of this overall sense of life and the ritual of greeting that is so pervasive there. I saw this on Phuket. I learned to act according to each person, learned to hold my hands together and to keep lower if I could (as a woman who is 5 ft. 10 in. tall, this is "difficult") and I shall still continue this this when I return to Thailand in June, 2011. I love the sense that one is bound to the earth and one also aspires to the heights of the sky. I will be pleased to be humble and to be able to show this in action as well as in words. I really would like more information on this as time goes along. Thank you for the insights published here.

[elkangorito]

Thanks for the great info Randy.

If anybody wants to read the book, it's online at http://books.google.com.au/books?id=8FiJb4...p;q&f=false

The following 2 pics are of the book's preface, to be read sequencially:

[Scott]

Thanks, it's interesting reading--at least the preface is.

[chadintheusa]

They won't listen to farang.

You're a farang, aren't you?

The Thais will always say yes to the Farangs in a school, then they'll go behind their backs and do whatever they wanted to do in the first place.

If the parents are higher social class than the teachers, the teachers are under a lot of pressure not to rock the boat, just pass the kids and keep the parents happy.

[elkangorito]

I have made an interesting observation with a Thai friend of mine.

He spent about 15 years in Australia (not consecutive) & still basically adheres to many Thai ideals, although he knows better.

For example, he still conforms to this 'loss of face' rubbish. When I asked him about this, his response was, "Because everybody else in Thailand does this."

The same applies to Thai people at my place of work. Two of my colleagues have spent more than 1 year (each) in Australia to gain degrees in teaching. Each of these people do not 'readily' apply what they were exposed to in Australia. Instead, they take the 'knowledge' aspect of what they were taught but continue to apply their 'idealogical' beliefs, which in my opinion, limits the usefulness of their education.

At the end of the day, 'Thai culture' will need to be amended to accommodate 'current world activities'. Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean 'westernising' Thailand.

[phetaroi]

At the end of the day, 'Thai culture' will need to be amended to accommodate 'current world activities'. Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean 'westernising' Thailand.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Not sure I agree. I want Thailand to remain Thailand. America to remain America. France to remain France. I personally don't want a homogenized world.

Or, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

[elkangorito]

It's pretty simple Phetorai.

I prefer Thailand to remain Thailand too but without the 'cultural constraints'.

I actually believe that it's pretty naive to think that nothing will change in Thailand, given things like the internet exist. My hope is that Thailand adopts the worthwhile measures of western society & does not adopt the unworthwhile measures.

The book mentioned by RandyWhite above, sounds like a great comparison of 'West vs East' (amongst other things). I'll have to read it before I can ultimately comment.

In all respects, Thailand is at a juncture that could change EVERYTHING here. Thailand has the opportunity to 'select' from history, what it wants. If any kind of selection is more important, it is about a certain 'blind following' of 3 idealogies... religion, culture & the 'unmentionable'.

Basically, until 'free speech' & secularism are adopted in Thailand, things will not change readily.

How does this relate to education? Quite simply & as you probably know, many Thai educators are restricted by certain laws & beliefs, to mention or even allude to any kind of thinking outside of the 'Thai Cultural' box. Of course, 'fear' plays a major role in keeping the 'status quo' (westernisation is one possible 'fear'...so is talking about 'something else').

Edited April 25, 2010 by elkangorito

[Scott]

I think the argument is mute. I think Thailand has already changed and is changing more. The question is what direction will it take?

Education will lag behind the changes, just as it does nearly everywhere.

[phetaroi]

It's pretty simple Phetorai.

I prefer Thailand to remain Thailand too but without the 'cultural constraints'.

I actually believe that it's pretty naive to think that nothing will change in Thailand, given things like the internet exist. My hope is that Thailand adopts the worthwhile measures of western society & does not adopt the unworthwhile measures.

...

In all respects, Thailand is at a juncture that could change EVERYTHING here. Thailand has the opportunity to 'select' from history, what it wants. If any kind of selection is more important, it is about a certain 'blind following' of 3 idealogies... religion, culture & the 'unmentionable'.

Basically, until 'free speech' & secularism are adopted in Thailand, things will not change readily.

How does this relate to education? Quite simply & as you probably know, many Thai educators are restricted by certain laws & beliefs, to mention or even allude to any kind of thinking outside of the 'Thai Cultural' box. Of course, 'fear' plays a major role in keeping the 'status quo' (westernisation is one possible 'fear'...so is talking about 'something else').

Well, it's anything but simple, although I understand what you are saying. I oversimplified in my own comments, an so I want to make it clear that while I am not in favor of gross changes in the culture, I also don't want Thailand to be my own personal museum where I expect to see lily pads on the klongs. I guess what I am saying is that in the past, Thailand has seemed to have a talent for taking "western stuff" (both in terms of things and thinking) and adapting those things and thinkings to somehow still fitting in the (egads, I'm going to say it!) Thai way.

I think you're correct that Thailand is at a juncture that could change everything. But what I've found throughout the world is that when countries arrive at certain junctures like that, it's not so often that the radical change that could occur actually does occur. Meanwhile, the normal evolution of the society continues to occur, sometimes at a very slow pace, and other times at a faster pace...but rarely at a revolutionary pace. I'll give you an example of an evolutionary-pace of change I have witnessed here in Thailand within the past...oh...5 years...oops, let me correct that and say in Bangkok (not all of Thailand) -- when I ride the Skytrain or subway, or walk through Central World or Paragon (when I still could!) and see the younger Thais (the 20ish to early 30s types), I often see a group of people who think...well, they probably don't actively think it..."I/we have arrived on the world scene. I/we have our Blackberries and Ipods and ultra-modern western hair styles and we are riding in a modern mass transit venue and blah, blah, blah." With that new-Thailand thinking, some of the sweetness has disappeared.

I think you are correct...throughout the world the internet is changing everything. The evolutionary pace I have spoken of is a little faster now.

But of course, I need to bring this back to education. Regardless of the internet, students still spend a huge chunk of time in school. In Virginia, where the internet is available in every classroom, there are teachers who embrace it and run with it, and there are teachers who barely touch it in their instruction unless forced. And in all societies -- including Thailand -- there is always that push and pull between "new ways of doing things" and "the old cultural restraints". And in most nations, the schools are one of the centers of that struggle between old and new.

The last couple of days, as a favor to a Thai friend, I'm reviewing a PhD thesis being written about the accessibility factors of websites in Thailand. It's very interesting to see that anyone is even thinking much about that here where there are not the laws about access for the handicapped that there are in the States. More and more Thai government agencies have websites. And, many more Thai-based companies and tourist sites have websites. The quality varies, of course. Some of the sites barely function correctly or aren't well thought through. For example, as soon as the political thing settles down I want to spend some time in Nakhon Pathom Province, and at least part of the time I'll stay at a hotel to avoid the "commute" back and forth from Suk 24. The hotel I'm considering has a decent website and it actually functions fairly well. One little problem -- no map or directions to the hotel on the website, which is located in an odd place, so figuring how to get there is paramount. Duh! And this really is an education factor. Within the Education Ministry there is an awareness that technology and curriculum needs to change. A great deal of money is being spent on technology in schools in Thailand. A great deal of effort is being spent to update curriculum. But, just as in the States, the next step is, perhaps, the most difficult...getting the schools to actually change what they do...because that means getting the administrators and teachers to change what they do. The effort is being made by the Education Ministry. For example, this week they are sponsoring a large seminar at the MAXX Hotel on technology education for representative teachers from around Thailand. A process that is so common in the States. And, just as in the States, they are then relying that the teachers will go back to their schools and do some turn-around-training. And, in a few places, that may actually happen...slowly but surely things will change in a few schools and then a few more and then a few more. But again, there will remain that push-pull from the old versus the new.

Thailand does change (despite what some posters in the overall forum think), but it is stodgy. And, that may be good sometimes, and bad sometimes.

[RandyWhite]

Thanks, it's interesting reading--at least the preface is.

It's the motherlode , Jack.

Read the whole shebang online at www.crvp.org/book/series03/III-18Contents.htm and feel empowered.

All Thai governments are corrupt - it's just a difference of degree, but as to who I prefer as leader it's chalk and cheese because 'Tacky' is such a phony and clearly didn't 'earn' his foreign education like Abhisit obviously did.

Unfortunately, the old guard in the Democrats are rather a large albatross around his neck, but he has a modern vision for Thailand that Thaksin couldn't even begin to imagine because his mentality remains that of a small-minded 'TOKAE' or Chinese-style boss i.e. I talk you listen and never forget I never made a mistake in my life. QED

[ashguypk]

I briefly read some of these posts and have a few comments. I am an expert in motivation and learning. My research pertains to cultural values and the processes through which individuals are socialized.

Culture and education are multidimensional issues that overlap. A good way to begin to understand these variables is to define what is meant by "Thai culture" and "the quality of education". Providing this foundation will result in a more productive discussion. However, without knowledge of the structure and function of both culture and education (i.e. the variables that provide foundations for their meaning), the question becomes inconsequential.

After 10 years of teaching in various capacities, and five years of research experience, I am quite certain that structure of any educational system significantly relates to its function. But this is nothing new under the sun. Experts can influence almost any psychological and/or social variable deemed necessary for the progress of a system.

So, The short answer to the question of, "Does Thai culture have an impact on the quality of education in Thailand?" is rhetorical. Yes, of course it does. But, most formulas (chemical or otherwise) do not work in only one direction ( A to B ). The question implies that "Thai culture" is the independent variable and "the quality of education" is the dependent variable (i.e. cause and effect). Another important point is that it is difficult to examine how "thai culture" affects "the quality of education" since education is an important variable within the construct of "Thai culture".

I do not have a lot of experience with internet blogs simply because many individuals just want to complain and or give their $0.02 based on whatever knowledge they have or think they have. And when I read the comments about social engineering and various conspiracies, my first thought is to tell people to find a good peer-reviewed article on www.scholar.google.com and start reading. All the answers you seek are already there.

Dr. X

[myauq]

I do not have a lot of experience with internet blogs simply because many individuals just want to complain and or give their $0.02 based on whatever knowledge they have or think they have. And when I read the comments about social engineering and various conspiracies, my first thought is to tell people to find a good peer-reviewed article on www.scholar.google.com and start reading. All the answers you seek are already there.

Dr. X

the 'expert' has spoken. seems that peer-reviewed articles are better than what we can say here on 'blogs'. does that mean we should close the thread?

no wonder academia has such a bad name

[myauq]

I do not have a lot of experience with internet blogs simply because many individuals just want to complain and or give their $0.02 based on whatever knowledge they have or think they have. And when I read the comments about social engineering and various conspiracies, my first thought is to tell people to find a good peer-reviewed article on www.scholar.google.com and start reading. All the answers you seek are already there.

Dr. X

the 'expert' has spoken. seems that peer-reviewed articles are better than what we can say here on 'blogs'. does that mean we should close the thread?

no wonder academia has such a bad name

i would say that some of the ideas (not all) that people explore here can also be found in academic journals, which are of course written in a different language - here it's colloquial; and in journals it's refined, specialised language. i don't think one is better than the other. in fact there are many, many articles written about the uses of 'blogs' and forums for a range of different reasons ... affirming identity, making connections between different communities, sharing information, more accountability in journalism, democratic participation, etc, etc.

there are also arguments about ways to study these ideas, and collect information.... just as there are arguments about people who make statements based on their experiences, those who cite books and articles, and those who just have strong opinions. same in academia i'm afraid.

and that said from from a person who has got a couple of articles on google scholar