Thai Army Says Planning Operation To Clear Protesters

[BNZ]

Most of them can survive in conditions that would kill most of us and still maintain a fair degree of civility and unity. They are tough and fearless. They will prevail in the long run and all the oracles on TV here will wonder, why did we not understand them better.

They sound rather like the Viet Cong.

And like the Viet Cong, they will win in the end.

And what exactly did the Vietnamese rice farmer win ?

More grinding poverty.

 

[Jerrytheyoung]

Sure. 35 years later. On the corpses of how many people, do you reckon? Cambodia also an "interesting" example of what can happen when totalitarian "red" movements prevail.

Such a fair example of your open mind:

You choose to open the discussion on Viet Cong, then realising it is not the good example you jump to Cambodia!!!!

Concerning the vietnam, French and US we have lost the war there because they were fighting for their Country.

French we have started the war particularly under the lobbying of capitalists like Michelin (Rubber plantations), at the end of the French Vietnamese war....we have discovered that those capitalists have sold most of their vietnamese assets for reinvesting in South America, Our soldiers were continuing to fight and are dead believing they were protecting their interests.....This is one facet of Capitalism. Sharks!!!

[Jerrytheyoung]

Here's a quote from an article in Reuters regarding recent debt relief for farmers.

"Under the scheme, debts owed by farmers will be halved. They will also get 15 years to pay off the remaining 50 percent of their original debt, said Vichit Chantachaeng, an acting director of the state Farmers' Reconstuction and Development Fund.

The plan affects about 510,000 debtors who owed a total of about 80 billion baht ($2.5 billion) in non-performing loans."

It is a Pi in a Violin.... 40% of the population is concerned by drought, rice, rubber price (around 25 Millions people far from the 0.5 million).... Mini measure "Cosmetic", NOTORIOUSLY INSUFFICIENT.

Thai Agriculture needs a "MARSHALL PLAN", present your cosmetic measures to the Kindergarden, they may be impressed.

[Supernova]

Even if the Reds win, there's no guarantee Thaksin will get immunity.

Are you sure?

Somebody has spent a lot of cash on this, and I'm not just talking about paying protesters. If this person is Thaksin, I highly doubt this "investment" is simply for democracy and the proverbial good of the people.

If the Reds won and granted Thaksin immunity, the opposing side would cry foul play and we'll be back to where we are now. Only this time the protesters would be wearing a different colored shirt.

IMO, the only way to get immunity is to wipe the slate clean -- where both sides (red and yellow) are given the same privilege.

[lannarebirth]

Jerry, Thai labor is already overpriced internationally relative to what they offer and the cheapness of the competition. If it gets much more expensive, more international firms will just skidoo. Nothing personal, just business. A red "peoples" revolution will not translate into low skill factory workers making 500 baht an hour, that you can bank on mate.

you do not want to understand... instead to buy Strategic balloons, GT 200, submarines (when the sea depth is ridiculous for their utilisation) and to make grandiose hyper highways.... in Bangkok....

Just revise the Budget , implementing a correct infrastructure (Railways), decentralising some industries, supporting the income of farmers until the rationalisation of agriculture is done.

(Europe and USA ARE subsidising their farmers, why you, Farangs, you are opposed to the same thing in Thailand?)

It's a shame no one wants to give Abhisit time to implement those kinds of policies which are among his intentions. Instead, these rallies try to obfuscate his national agenda and paint him as the architect of the people's suffering. Who stands to gain from that aside from upcountry puyai? Those who have crippled the minds of these people and put shackles on their lives are the same people who pay their busfare to Bangkok and their per diem. It's a bloody shame.

Here's a quote from an article in Reuters regarding recent debt relief for farmers.

"Under the scheme, debts owed by farmers will be halved. They will also get 15 years to pay off the remaining 50 percent of their original debt, said Vichit Chantachaeng, an acting director of the state Farmers' Reconstuction and Development Fund.

The plan affects about 510,000 debtors who owed a total of about 80 billion baht ($2.5 billion) in non-performing loans."

Makes you wonder who's holding that paper that just took a 50% haircut. Farmers generally borrow locally, and not at attractive terms either. I think the local puyai just hate the fact this government wants to help the farmer get their necks out from under the local chao por's boot.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Most of them can survive in conditions that would kill most of us and still maintain a fair degree of civility and unity. They are tough and fearless. They will prevail in the long run and all the oracles on TV here will wonder, why did we not understand them better.

They sound rather like the Viet Cong.

And like the Viet Cong, they will win in the end.

And what exactly did the Vietnamese rice farmer win ?

More grinding poverty.

 

Have you been to Vietnam, recently? I have (Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh ville/Saigon/ Tranh). Country seems in order, everybody has at least a motorbike. people looks healthy, on the materialistic aspect it seems OK. Other aspects, too short trip to get information.

[niveknedwob]

The "elite" don't only live in Bangkok - every little village has its own 'pecking order' - do we refer to this structure as 'micro-corruption' ?

A farang will never be able to adequately understand the basics of socio-economic division IN THAILAND, no matter how long you have been here.

In a similar way people born and bred in Bangkok, whether from rich or poor stock, will never adequately understand what goes on in 'the provinces'. Excepting that they might have an old 'grandma' who tells them interesting stories when they go to visit once a year or so.

Edited April 17, 2010 by niveknedwob

[Ricardo]

you do not want to understand... instead to buy Strategic balloons, GT 200, submarines (when the sea depth is ridiculous for their utilisation) and to make grandiose hyper highways.... in Bangkok....

Just revise the Budget , implementing a correct infrastructure (Railways), decentralising some industries, supporting the income of farmers until the rationalisation of agriculture is done.

(Europe and USA ARE subsidising their farmers, why you, Farangs, you are opposed to the same thing in Thailand?)

I agree that your priorities make sense, however they would upset the rural middle-men, who are amongst Thaksin's greatest supporters, so its unlikely to happen. I myself would add allowing local-people to form more co-operatives, run by themselves rather than poo-yais, but that also is unlikely to be allowed.

Heavily armed protesters ......You have to rush to the optician and change your glasses

Might I suggest a similar urgent need, as your own optician appears to sell only rose-tinted spectacles, which have the calming effect of blocking-out bamboo-spears, rocks & grenades, molotov-cocktails & shit-bags, steel-barriers used as battering-rams, and many other forms of upsetting weapons.

[RussellHantz]

Most of them can survive in conditions that would kill most of us and still maintain a fair degree of civility and unity. They are tough and fearless. They will prevail in the long run and all the oracles on TV here will wonder, why did we not understand them better.

They sound rather like the Viet Cong.

And like the Viet Cong, they will win in the end.

Quite possibly. So do you reckon they will send the "elites" to concentration camps like the Cong did after they won?

Thats the old fashioned way. The new way is to set up a committee eg ECCC (the Elite Corruption Commission Committee), dig up dirt until you find something and prosecute the opposition... you know, just like they did for Thaksin. Everyone can be nailed for something if you look hard enough.

Maybe they will set up one for Abhisit, i'm sure they can get him for something he has done. Slap a few years on him and make him eat his words.

[jdinasia]

And what exactly did the Vietnamese rice farmer win ?

More grinding poverty.

Have you been to Vietnam, recently? I have (Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh ville/Saigon/ Tranh). Country seems in order, everybody has at least a motorbike. people looks healthy, on the materialistic aspect it seems OK. Other aspects, too short trip to get information.

Hmmm the same could be said about equivalent places in Thailand But how many rice farmers are there in Hanoi?

[AsiaCheese]

Jing, I cannot concur that wages in Thailand are overpriced in comparison with their direct competing countries. They are higher than Cambodia, Burma, China, Vietnam, but Thailand is ahead of them in development. They are below Singapore for example but that is to be expected. However, try to compare the cost of hiring similarly qualified people in Bangkok or Singapore. Thailand is still considerably cheaper for skilled labour, and cheap for manual labour in comparison with many. Compare the cost of a car assembly line person in Thailand and China and I think you may be surprised how much semi skilled labour costs in China.

There is very little international pressure on industry here so the margins are still impressive for many industries be them hi-tech, high capital or high people content. Yes some industries are under pressure for margin, but many companies here in Thailand are protected, make comfortable profits, and yet still pay pitiful wages.

It would be interesting to calculate what would happen if all the restrictions on foreign companies were removed in Thailand. Aside from overall competition, I would imagine they would bid up wages for many skill levels of workers. Of course, the evil farangs wouldn't do such a thing would they?

Thailand is ahead of them in development? Sorry, not likely.

Regarding wages: that's not all that counts. I read a Reuters story (about a year ago; sorry, don't have a link) that a large Japanese conglomerate wanted to set up new factories in a "low-wage" country. Their criteria comprised wages, skills, taxes and grants situation, but also political stability and reliability/consistency of gov't agencies. Thailand was nixed and the factories were built in Malaysia, despite higher wages there, because the consent was that in Thailand, political stability was questionable, plus you were never sure when the next corrupt gov't person would turn up & demand tea money or else...

[nakachalet]

supernova....

i am very sorry that i have to massively disagree with you in ref to pm apisit....

the current pm, apisit, is not a failure at all.... as you attibuted him to be....

on the contrary, he is a complete gentleman, thoroughly.... inside and outside....

perhaps, because of his gentleness and full of compassion and mercy toward others.... even the opposing redshirts themselves....

he was willing to settle the issues with the 3 redshirt core leaders on a conference table.... which was televised nationwide, not once but twice....

he even was willing to do it for the third time.... but the redshirt leaders were the one who refused his gracious gesture....

the current pm is morally upright, smart, gentle, fair and full of compassion for all.... whether they are southerners, northerners, westerners, easterners or bangkokians themselves....

in my estimation, and i totally agreed with asiacheese.... he is several notches above..... the convicted escapee tuksin, somchai and samark....

and i'll be saying the same thing as i stated above to the ex pm--mr chuan.... tomorrow morning, sunday the 18th....

<snip>

Abhisit has received a lot of bashing (he's making mistakes like everyone else, and yes, he's from a rich family -- so what?), but I vaguely remember him having made a point of getting better education underway, for example. He's not putting asphalt on a stretch of road through a village or organizing loans that from the start never have a chance of being paid back, ever. I personally think that he's a guy with a lot of integrity and for once someone who really could do something for the country. What a bloody shame he's being thrown off the track by a bunch of anarchists who are backed by a criminal on the run...

Abhisit was thrown off track the day he aligned himself with Prem. Had he chose not to serve the elitist agenda, I believe things would have turned out quite differently.

Abhisit was never in control, not since the day he took office. His policies were dictated by the powers that be from the very beginning. With Suthep Thaugsuban frequently overstepping his authority, it became the perfect recipe for disaster. All things considered, it doesn't come as any surprise (to me) why this Oxford-educated young man turned out to be a massive failure. Yet another political casualty.

Thanks for the link.

Wonder why Thaksin is so quiet? What about the cancer rumouers?

I think he is quiet now because of the criminal implications against him if the reds fail. All of the red leaders have arrest warrants on them, and if the reds lose, things could get even trickier for Thaksin, with fewer and fewer countries willing to accommodate Mr. Hot Potato. Also he clearly can no longer be politically active from Dubai. Also remember the sniper business is still open to investigation.

Even if the Reds win, there's no guarantee Thaksin will get immunity.

[niveknedwob]

"Thai Army Says Planning Operation To Clear Protesters, Anupong appointed new emergency operations command chief"

Try to keep 'slightly' on topic.

[Jerrytheyoung]

And what exactly did the Vietnamese rice farmer win ?

More grinding poverty.

Have you been to Vietnam, recently? I have (Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh ville/Saigon/ Tranh). Country seems in order, everybody has at least a motorbike. people looks healthy, on the materialistic aspect it seems OK. Other aspects, too short trip to get information.

Hmmm the same could be said about equivalent places in Thailand But how many rice farmers are there in Hanoi?

It is JingThing who has open the debate on Vietnam. Honestly, being in business trip, I have not been in Vietnamese Countryside and I cannot answer to your question. Also I am not a defender of this kind of regime. I have heard that there was a minimum wage for everybody, the issue is more on the side of the elite; few contacts, they are not enjoying their salaries (but this is not a solid information, just an impression).

Edited April 17, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[bob6023]

don't the Thai govt. understand that the world is watching, shaking their heads and laughing at them. Maybe they just don't care. Is there not One person in all of Thailand who knows how a govt should be run and how an Army should be run and how a Police force should be run. Not one person? Can you imagine ANY police force in the rest of the world, putting up with this stuff? In the U.S., there would be red shirts laying dead all over the street, or gassed and put in jail, or both, but not still operating like they are. What is wrong with these people?

short anwser they're thai

[niveknedwob]

Looking at any 'operation' against Rajprasong the government forces would need to try and ensure that the moms and babies weren't in the firing line (which they actually managed to achieve last weekend, by luck or planning ... who knows). I assume that they are not on the 'acceptable fatalities' list this time round ? It might be harder to effect this at Rajprasong.

The annual, 'natural selection', cull of Thai people has already occurred (Songkran travelling) - but I guess the 'target figure' may be on the low side.

Let's see.

[Jerrytheyoung]

"Thai Army Says Planning Operation To Clear Protesters, Anupong appointed new emergency operations command chief"

Try to keep 'slightly' on topic.

What do you want we comment?

Army is planning;

PLAN A

PLAN B

PLAN C

PLAN D

......

PLAN X

PLAN Z

Then Anupong will choose the scenario.

Just wishing it is the Good one with NO BLOOD and PEACE.

Remember the Portuguese Revolution... Put one flower in each gun. This is the BEST OPTION.

[jdinasia]

And what exactly did the Vietnamese rice farmer win ?

More grinding poverty.

Have you been to Vietnam, recently? I have (Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh ville/Saigon/ Tranh). Country seems in order, everybody has at least a motorbike. people looks healthy, on the materialistic aspect it seems OK. Other aspects, too short trip to get information.

Hmmm the same could be said about equivalent places in Thailand But how many rice farmers are there in Hanoi?

It is JingThing who has open the debate on Vietnam. Honestly, being in business trip, I have not been in Vietnamese Countryside and I cannot answer to your question. Also I am not a defender of this kind of regime. I have heard that there was a minimum wage for everybody, the issue is more on the side of the elite; few contacts, they are not enjoying their salaries (but this is not a solid information, just an impression).

It was you making the bogus comparisons.

This never has been about the 'elite' or your hyperbole about moders slavery. This is about Thaksin's attampt to use the people of the rural N and NE by locking them into a client patron role that they could never escape.

[retarius]

You take the cake with your dribble

last time I looked there was no famine in Thailand and never has been I know a lot of people from Isaan who work and make decent money, more than able to feed their family. Yes, there are some lazy bums who rather take ja baa and than top themselves blaming everybody else but not themselves of course.

The only reason the reds have to be here is for the leaders to jump on Takki's wagon and they hope for huge rewards - than there are the other gangsters who are making money and enjoy to riot (like the leaders) and the rest have got no clue as to what is really going on but get fed and paid as well. Mind you, most of them have already left and what is left is every thug from Isaan who is here to have a bit of war

Unfortunately here are some facts that you are not aware of;

- Undernutrition is a recognized problem in Thailand.

- The country is indeed at risk of famine.

The most obvious cause of famine will be the looming drought. As water sources disappear there is a real threat of the remaining water resources becoming salinated or tainted with pollution. This isn't due to the politics of the street. It is a fact of life and a real threat.

In respect to undernutrition, the major culprit is poverty and sadly there are a growing number of children in this country, as in the rest of the world, that go to bed hungry and that wake up hungry. Tremendous inroads started to be made in 1996 with the apex of poverty being reduced during the Thaksin era. Please, do not accuse me of being a Thaksin supporter because this is what the numbers were and are. Besides, the turning point for improvement was in 1998 and Thaksin was not even in power. However, the numbers stopped improving at the end of the Thaksin era and it seems they are deteriorating now.

Farangs that live in the resort cities and bangkok are oblivious to the sad reality that Thailand is showing a dismal trend.

When children under the age of 5 are examined, sadly approx. 12% have stunted growth, 9% are underweight and 4% are diagnosed as wasting (i.e. starving to death). At the same time, 10-15% of primary school children are classified as obese.

Think about the implications. It means that the poor are getting so poor they cannot afford food and that the wealthy are getting so wealthy that they are creating a culture of obesity.

Where do these numbers come from? Respected health organizations such as Mahidol University and the U.N. If you don't believe me go and talk to kraisid Tontsirin at Mahidol, which is hardly a hotbed of Thaksin support. Better yet, read his last seminar presentation

http://www.icn2009.com/Presentations/Oct%2...y%20Mode%5D.pdf

Please consider this. If a person does not make enough money to purchase a balanced diet, that person will suffer. Look at the wages earned by people outside of Bangkok. Now look at the cost of food today. The wages have remained static, yet basic food has increased in price over the past year. Rice has seen increases of how many times in the past year? (I believe it is 3X)

How do you expect a poor person to eat?

People can toss all sorts of fancy political theories around or even blame Thaksin if they want, but I believe what is driving alot of the protestors is the that they are tired of the systemic poverty. When you are poor and have nothing, you are more open to people with a message of salvation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Thailand and yes, I have been here a very long time and I employed staff up country and when it came down to wages, the ministry of work was on my back to make sure minimum wages were paid.

Considering the cost of living up-country and the family units there is no real reason why children should be starving. The strange thing is, there always seems to be enough money around for a TV and for drink, but as you say not for food. Fish and fruit are abandoned and considering that most of these people are rice farmers, you are contradicting yourself here since the price of rice has gone up, so has income.

The main problem is that they all want to live beyond their means and to buy motorcycles and fancy clothes. They borrow money from the ever present money lenders and by the time wages are paid, they have to pay a big chunk of those to the money lender. Gambling is another cause for financial problems of many Isanies , but they can not blame the government for this!

There is a problem I admit with the IQ level because most do not use salt but only fish sauce. It is a medical fact that especially during growth, the brain needs Iodine to develop and when this is missing..... well, the results we see gathered in Bangkok right now. Chulalungkorn University did a study on this along time ago and came up with the same results. But this is not caused by poverty, simply by choice.

Maybe in town some employees make 5,000TBT or 6,000TBT in Northern Issan. But in the villages.... I know some families with total income of 3,000TBT with 2 young children going to school (have to pay 500TBT for the Elder going in town + uniform + transportation 200TBT village to city) Please use your computer and make a fair budget with 3000TBT and 4 persons .....

The sticky rice is of poor quality and is not a good income....

The Local University- Department of Agriculture- needs more support, needs funds for teaching the farmers: not enough money, not enough teachers (teaching the adults in the evening in the village is at light years with the current possibilities)- In the schools, most of classes comprises 40 to 50 students. irrigation projects are just rhetoric, development of small industries are nearly nil....Nobody takes care of this welcoming and wonderful population.

The problem is not the IQ level, (typical language for supporting the Bangkokian Elite superiority). My adopted eldest son is now in the head of his class (School in town).

In the village where I live part of the year, they cannot offer Fish sauce, the fishes are salted and cooked on firewood (Tha Phanom region salt- no Gas cooker). My in Law overall family (3 married couples + father/Mother = 8 children) shares 3 old motorbikes and 1 "tic-Tac". My wife, when I meet her had only few Blue jeans and a couple of skirts second hand, but proud that her 2 children-she was widowed- are wearing proper clothes. The neighbouring families are also decent people with similar living conditions and wealth.

Gambling: yes on 1000 people maybe 5 are gambling, but most= NO. It means a probable statistic figure far below Bangkok

The problem is that nobody want to invest in this region, because the Elite want to keep those poor blokes under control as workforce in the factories, as maid or even for their entertainment (massage, bar...)- in fact this is a modern form of slavery.

I repeat to the yellowish partisans: I am not a "Thaksinist", I do not protect my "cheerful red leaders" . I am only a man, with social sensitivity and supporting directly the ISSAN PEOPLE -not leaders-, I have been accepted by the village in which I spent a large part of the year by this wonderful population far more intelligent than some arrogant elitists.

I wish for the sake of Thailand that this situation will be solved PEACEFULLY.

Jerry...well said....

[Jerrytheyoung]

Looking at any 'operation' against Rajprasong the government forces would need to try and ensure that the moms and babies weren't in the firing line (which they actually managed to achieve last weekend, by luck or planning ... who knows). I assume that they are not on the 'acceptable fatalities' list this time round ? It might be harder to effect this at Rajprasong.

The annual, 'natural selection', cull of Thai people has already occurred (Songkran travelling) - but I guess the 'target figure' may be on the low side.

Let's see.

To all the Ex soldiers, nostalgic of old times, experienced, knowledgeable about Military Art, I suggest you join the French Legion Etrangere to exert your talents.

Thais at 92% want a Peaceful Country. Your advices are useless here, because WE WANT PEACE, NO BLOOD

.

[ianf]

supernova....

i am very sorry that i have to massively disagree with you in ref to pm apisit....

the current pm, apisit, is not a failure at all.... as you attibuted him to be....

on the contrary, he is a complete gentleman, thoroughly.... inside and outside....

perhaps, because of his gentleness and full of compassion and mercy toward others.... even the opposing redshirts themselves....

he was willing to settle the issues with the 3 redshirt core leaders on a conference table.... which was televised nationwide, not once but twice....

he even was willing to do it for the third time.... but the redshirt leaders were the one who refused his gracious gesture....

the current pm is morally upright, smart, gentle, fair and full of compassion for all.... whether they are southerners, northerners, westerners, easterners or bangkokians themselves....

in my estimation, and i totally agreed with asiacheese.... he is several notches above..... the convicted escapee tuksin, somchai and samark....

and i'll be saying the same thing as i stated above to the ex pm--mr chuan.... tomorrow morning, sunday the 18th....

The above post is so eloquently stated and so correct. Now if all the posters here shared your insight and common sense - not to mention intelligence - then this board would not be as lively! But really beautifully written. Thank you for that breath of fresh air.

Edited April 17, 2010 by ianf

[BNZ]

Looking at any 'operation' against Rajprasong the government forces would need to try and ensure that the moms and babies weren't in the firing line (which they actually managed to achieve last weekend, by luck or planning ... who knows). I assume that they are not on the 'acceptable fatalities' list this time round ? It might be harder to effect this at Rajprasong.

Let's see.

And when  "any 'operation ' "  starts, the so called Red 'leaders' will slip out the back windows and run like rats deserting a sinking ship to spread their Molotov terrorism throughout Bangkok under the misnomer of Democracy. 

Leaving the decent but duped supporters to naively take the brunt of the action.

[Supernova]

supernova....

i am very sorry that i have to massively disagree with you in ref to pm apisit....

the current pm, apisit, is not a failure at all.... as you attibuted him to be....

on the contrary, he is a complete gentleman, thoroughly.... inside and outside....

perhaps, because of his gentleness and full of compassion and mercy toward others.... even the opposing redshirts themselves....

he was willing to settle the issues with the 3 redshirt core leaders on a conference table.... which was televised nationwide, not once but twice....

he even was willing to do it for the third time.... but the redshirt leaders were the one who refused his gracious gesture....

the current pm is morally upright, smart, gentle, fair and full of compassion for all.... whether they are southerners, northerners, westerners, easterners or bangkokians themselves....

in my estimation, and i totally agreed with asiacheese.... he is several notches above..... the convicted escapee tuksin, somchai and samark....

and i'll be saying the same thing as i stated above to the ex pm--mr chuan.... tomorrow morning, sunday the 18th....

I understand your point of view and even agree with a lot of it, but I wasn't questioning his abilities or moral values. I'm sure Abhisit is a nice guy, but that's beside the point. My point is he's been heavily influenced by a group of individuals who, I may add, are ruthless in their own right. These aristocrats will do anything to crush the opposition and maintain the status quo.

As a result, it has destroyed him (Abhisit) and is tearing the country apart. The sad thing is, there's nothing Abhisit can do about it, but walk the path that has already been laid out for him.

[niveknedwob]

A "gentleman" - will open a door for a lady ... but will smash that door into the face of any 'aspiring young pretender' that cares to try his hand - and still end up kissing her on the cheek at the door to her place later whilst politely refusing to go in for a coffee.

[RickBradford]

Thais at 92% want a Peaceful Country. Your advices are useless here, because WE WANT PEACE, NO BLOOD

Cool, so 8%, or about 5 million, want the reverse, i.e. blood, no peace? I think they're going to get their wish....

[Slaps]

Very interesting article but Google it

economist/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15718981

[Jerrytheyoung]

[

It was you making the bogus comparisons.

This never has been about the 'elite' or your hyperbole about moders slavery. This is about Thaksin's attampt to use the people of the rural N and NE by locking them into a client patron role that they could never escape.

Most of the media everywhere in the world, the Red Shirts in their published declaration have noticed...THAKSIN is sidelined. RED Shirt People are fighting for THEMSELVES not for Thaksin. On your side, have you noticed the important change since the beginning of the conflict????

I am supporting PEACE and supporting the Northern Population. I am not supporting Thaksin. I am an opponent to his come back. Edited April 17, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[Jingthing]

Most of us have a hard time grasping the concept of a red supporter, or anyone else, who seriously believes that if the reds wins, Thaksin doesn't come back, at the very least to be a puppet master yet again. Like a Nazi who doesn't fancy Hitler, innit? What do you think he is paying for? Entertainment?

Edited April 17, 2010 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

supernova....

i am very sorry that i have to massively disagree with you in ref to pm apisit....

the current pm, apisit, is not a failure at all.... as you attibuted him to be....

on the contrary, he is a complete gentleman, thoroughly.... inside and outside....

perhaps, because of his gentleness and full of compassion and mercy toward others.... even the opposing redshirts themselves....

he was willing to settle the issues with the 3 redshirt core leaders on a conference table.... which was televised nationwide, not once but twice....

he even was willing to do it for the third time.... but the redshirt leaders were the one who refused his gracious gesture....

the current pm is morally upright, smart, gentle, fair and full of compassion for all.... whether they are southerners, northerners, westerners, easterners or bangkokians themselves....

in my estimation, and i totally agreed with asiacheese.... he is several notches above..... the convicted escapee tuksin, somchai and samark....

and i'll be saying the same thing as i stated above to the ex pm--mr chuan.... tomorrow morning, sunday the 18th....

I understand your point of view and even agree with a lot of it, but I wasn't questioning his abilities or moral values. I'm sure Abhisit is a nice guy, but that's beside the point. My point is he's been heavily influenced by a group of individuals who, I may add, are ruthless in their own right. These aristocrats will do anything to crush the opposition and maintain the status quo.

As a result, it has destroyed him (Abhisit) and is tearing the country apart. The sad thing is, there's nothing Abhisit can do about it, but walk the path that has already been laid out for him.

I think you'll find, when and if a true record of this chapter of Thai history is written, that Abhisit will have spent more of his time fighting "elites" on behalf of the poor, than he will have been fighting the poor on behalf of elites. The reason he is embattled right now is he is fighting those elitist elements, not because he is fighting "Red Shirts".

[djayz]

it's amazing that this army can't even surround a hotel and remove some fat middle aged men from a room without incident. If the army can't protect the country against a bunch of farmers with sticks, what the heck would they do if say someone like Cambodia decided this would be a nice country to have? I wonder how many countries out there are looking at Thailand as possible fair game, seeing how helpless they really appear. Maybe the moral of the story is, image is just that, all show and no substance. Time to get it together and prove it has what it takes to protect the women and children, or maybe the women and children should do it instead?

Wasn´t it security forces from the famous incompetent thai police that tried to arrest the leaders? I think they made a call to someone and asked how much they get paid to mess it all up.

Tea money! Need their tea money! If they're not careful and dont get their national security act together they are going to be speaking Cambodian or Chinese. Don't think they are'nt watching this travesty!

IF the state paid the police force a decent wage they (probably the most of them) won't need to play everybody for "tea money". Heads should roll for this blunder - but I doubt if that will happen aswell.